Dwayne Allen is Looking Better than Coby Fleener

[Andy]

Edited for 2nd time in a row

Dwayne Allen was selected one round after Coby Fleener, but it's Allen who's the one that's impressing and he's rightfully getting the first team reps.

When Dwayne Allen was drafted in this year's draft, many wondered "Why?" Actually, even Allen wondered why, until he realized that he and Fleener would be featured in a 2 tight end set. However, when there would be only one tight end on the field, many expected that Fleener would be that tight end on the field as he was deemed the better prospect. Well, it's not looking like that anymore.

When Fleener was at Stanford, finishing up his degree, Allen was in Indianapolis, partaking in many offseason training activities with many of the Colts players. He was more prepared than Coby Fleener going into training camp. Still, many people thought that Fleener's relationship with new quarterback Andrew Luck would be one of the main reasons why he'd be the starter. So far, during training camp, it seems like Dwayne Allen and Andrew Luck have the better chemistry (I said it seems). Just yesterday, Allen had 7 catches whereas Coby Fleener only had 2. Dwayne Allen has been making more noise than Fleener. Fleener has only caught a few catches each day whereas Allen has caught several each day and is clearly the better blocker.

The Colts will only use 1 tight end about 40% of the time, but still, that's about 23 plays a game.

The Colts plan to have a power running attack. Coach Pagano confirmed this a few days ago. With a power rushing attack, the Colts will need to have good blocking. With a power rushing attack, what teams tend to do is put a tight end at the end of the offensive line, in hopes that they could provide extra blocking. Makes sense, right?

Allen, who was projected to be the better blocking, is not disapointing in camp, and has been much better than Fleener. He's been stopping Jerry Hughes, and even Robert Mathis at times. He was one of the best blocking tight end coming out of college and it's showing.

Now, if we look back at this year's tight end class, it was highlighted by 3 names: Coby Fleener, Dwayne Allen, and MIchael Egnew. Before the NFL combine, the best tight end was Allen, who some thought could sneak into the first round to a team like Green Bay, or New York (Giants). Then, a not impressive combine and his stock dropped. Conversely, Coby Fleener had a phenomenal combine and his stock sky rocketed. Fleener, once projected to go in the late 2nd round, was now a late first round, early 2nd round prospect.

Is it really fair to say that Fleener was that much better, even after his impressive combine? No. The more polished and well rounded college player was Dwayne Allen, plain and simple. Fleener didn't have a great season until his senior year. The 3 previous years barely add up to his senior year. Dwayne Allen had his best season in his junior year (his final year), where he amassed almost as many yards and almost as many touchdowns as Fleener (while getting more catches). Keep in mind, that Fleener had Andrew Luck as his quarterback, whereas Dwayne Allen had Taj Boyd, a QB no where near as good as Luck. With Luck, Allen would had been better than Fleener. It's just that darn combine, which if you ask me, is one of the most overrated evaluators out there.

It's not 100% accurate. For example, your 40 yard dash doesn't make a difference if you're an offensive lineman. I don't think speed is a huge factor when you're a tight end. There are a lot of great tight ends out there, who aren't the fastest like Rob Gronkowski, or Antonio Gates, or Jermichael Finley. Although it's great to be fast, it's not necessary. That's why Allen's relatively slow time isn't horrible.

So far, Allen is looking better, but there's still a lot of time left and there are preseason games. This battle is far from over.

[oldunclemark]

That power running game is a pipe dream....

Look at our line and runners and tell me we're equipped to be a power running team..

.and we drafted QBs and receivers. Dont believe the old Oke-Doke....

[Andy]

That power running game is a pipe dream....

Look at our line and runners and tell me we're equipped to be a power running team..

.and we drafted QBs and receivers. Dont believe the old Oke-Doke....

Sorry Mark,

I'm gonna go with the HEAD COACH over ya.

We have the players to do a power rushing attack and we have one of the best run blocking centers in the league in Samson Satele.

[TKnight24]

Umm, this isn't really a Surprise. Fleener will be more like a Clark to us. He'll be lined up in Slot sometimes going against a CB or whoever the D puts on him. Allen is definitely the more All-Around TE. But Fleener will be used, maybe not as much as Allen (As the Article states)... but His & Luck's Chemistry isnt going anywhere

[vinatierifan4]

We have a good center I'll give you that, but what about the other four positions on the o line. We may have a keeper in our left tackle, but what about guards, and right tackle.

[Creekside]

Still amazed at how well the draft "seems" to have turned out for the Colts. Colts entered the draft with basically no "real" tight end. No one would have been shocked if both Fleener and Allen had been taken at the bottom of the first round, but they both fell to the Colts.

[John Dee]

That power running game is a pipe dream....

Look at our line and runners and tell me we're equipped to be a power running team..

.and we drafted QBs and receivers. Dont believe the old Oke-Doke....

Running the football is all about attitude and will.

Teams have to commit to it 100%, not just say they want to run it. We will see..... ???

But Ballard, Carter, and Evans (if he makes the team) give Indy a VERY GOOD inside the tackles group of backs.

But this team's D will dictate how much the O runs the ball.

[jbaron04]

There not competing with each other but against other teams

[TKnight24]

Still amazed at how well the draft "seems" to have turned out for the Colts. Colts entered the draft with basically no "real" tight end. No one would have been shocked if both Fleener and Allen had been taken at the bottom of the first round, but they both fell to the Colts.

I call it "The BIGGEST Steal of the 2012 Draft" Hopefully they Perform well enough for this to Stick

[John Dee]

Umm, this isn't really a Surprise. Fleener will be more like a Clark to us. He'll be lined up in Slot sometimes going against a CB or whoever the D puts on him. Allen is definitely the more All-Around TE. But Fleener will be used, maybe not as much as Allen (As the Article states)... but His & Luck's Chemistry isnt going anywhere

A player like Fleener, IMO is a luxury... A player like Allen, IMO is a necessity. If teams want to win they have to have an end that can block and catch. And if a team wants to win BIG they need players who can score from anywhere on the field. . Fleener is a WR playing TE. He will be a very good asset to Indy,

This O will produce this season. I have said it since the draft. I really like how this O is shaping up.

[21isSuperman]

Wasn't Allen considered the more complete TE coming out and was actually rated as a better TE than Fleener by many scouts? I've never been sold on Fleener and I still think Upshaw would have been a better pick. Hopefully, Fleener proves me wrong

[ColtStrong]

It's still way too early to say who is going to see more balls come their way. Talk to me about that a few weeks into the season.

[shakedownstreet]

That power running game is a pipe dream....

Look at our line and runners and tell me we're equipped to be a power running team..

.and we drafted QBs and receivers. Dont believe the old Oke-Doke....

we spent the first half of the 2006 season lambasting the line, rhodes, and addai. you know, those guys who won us a lombardi

[TKnight24]

Wasn't Allen considered the more complete TE coming out and was actually rated as a better TE than Fleener by many scouts? I've never been sold on Fleener and I still think Upshaw would have been a better pick. Hopefully, Fleener proves me wrong

Allen Won TE of the Year. That right there speaks for it's self

[John Dee]

Wasn't Allen considered the more complete TE coming out and was actually rated as a better TE than Fleener by many scouts? I've never been sold on Fleener and I still think Upshaw would have been a better pick. Hopefully, Fleener proves me wrong

Fleener was not drafted to block... He was drafted to dictate mismatches on the field and SCORE the ball.

And he is a good enough and smart enough player to become "good enough" when asked to block.

[cbear]

That was a strangely written article. At times it sounded like it was written by Allen's agent, or at least someone with a vested interest.

[ColtJ82]

How many days have you been to camp this year Andy?

[Carolinapantherfan]

What I've always been preaching this draft. Fleener was made to look good by luck, Allen will be the best TE in the draft, a possible pro bowler. The orders should have been flipped.

[Smonroe]

Fleener was not drafted to block... He was drafted to dictate mismatches on the field and SCORE the ball.

And he is a good enough and smart enough player to become "good enough" when asked to block.

Exactly. Dallas wasn't the best blocker, sometimes he was downright poor. But that wasn't his purpose. Fleener has the potential to be even better than Dallas when it comes to creating mismatches.

I'm not sold on our O-line until I see them actually play. But I really love the potential for all of our skill positions. (Yet, it all starts and ends with that line)

[ColtJ82]

What I've always been preaching this draft. Fleener was made to look good by luck, Allen will be the best TE in the draft, a possible pro bowler. The orders should have been flipped.

I don't disagree with you and I wasn't a fan of the Fleener pick. However, I believe the two both fit different needs specific to different teams. For example, Fleener made more sense for a team like the Pats. However, I think Allen would have made more sense for a team like Pittsburgh or Baltimore. For us, both fill a need. Glad things worked out the way they did.

[John Dee]

Exactly. Dallas wasn't the best blocker, sometimes he was downright poor. But that wasn't his purpose. Fleener has the potential to be even better than Dallas when it comes to creating mismatches.

I'm not sold on our O-line until I see them actually play. But I really love the potential for all of our skill positions. (Yet, it all starts and ends with that line)

Yes.... Imagine Fleener in a Dallas Clark role... I would imagine most would take that with open arms.

And imagine Allen as a Dilger or maybe Pollard type.

solid group....

[NewColtsFan]

I think right now too much is being made out of too little...

We've played no regular season games.

We've played no pre-season games.

We've had a handful of practices. Not enough data points to draw such conclusions.

All that said... none of this is a huge surprise. Allen was thought to be a more all-around TE. Fleener, thought to be, as John Dee put it, "A WR playing TE." He's a mismatch problem for defenses. Both will play vital rolls for our offense.

One small nit.... Fleener did NOT participate in the Combine drills. He only showed up to get weighed and measured. He was nursing a high ankle sprain. His impressive workout came three weeks later at the Stanford Pro Day... when Luck put on a show as well.

Over the next few years, both Fleener and Allen should prove their worth to the Colts. I think we'll be glad to have them both.

By the way, in a video tape on the website, Arians speaks highly of both players, but especially Allen.

http://www.colts.com/media-center/videos/Bruce-Arians-08-02-12/e560f7e8-9659-4439-b2e6-bc9363fd0bf2

[ColtJ82]

Yeah, I absolutely can't wait for the preseason games to start. A lot is being made out of training camp stats that mean nothing. We have only had 3 practices in pads.....and they are going against our secondary.

[21isSuperman]

Fleener was not drafted to block... He was drafted to dictate mismatches on the field and SCORE the ball.

And he is a good enough and smart enough player to become "good enough" when asked to block.

His blocking has always left something to be desired. He isn't terrible, but he is by no means great. He might be able to hold his own for a play or two, but he isn't known for his blocking ability. On the other hand, Allen is regarded as a more complete tight end and has won the Mackey award for the nation's best TE, as TKnight said, which Fleener has never done. I still think and hope both will be very good, but I think Allen is a better TE right now.

[Bubba_Rebel]

This a great "problem" to have

[John Dee]

I think right now too much is being made out of too little...

We've played no regular season games.

We've played no pre-season games.

We've had a handful of practices. Not enough data points to draw such conclusions.

All that said... none of this is a huge surprise. Allen was thought to be a more all-around TE. Fleener, thought to be, as John Dee put it, "A WR playing TE." He's a mismatch problem for defenses. Both will play vital rolls for our offense.

One small nit.... Fleener did NOT participate in the Combine drills. He only showed up to get weighed and measured. He was nursing a high ankle sprain. His impressive workout came three weeks later at the Stanford Pro Day... when Luck put on a show as well.

Over the next few years, both Fleener and Allen should prove their worth to the Colts. I think we'll be glad to have them both.

By the way, in a video tape on the website, Arians speaks highly of both players, but especially Allen.

http://www.colts.com...e6-bc9363fd0bf2

Allen, being above average at both blocking and catching the ball will make him in some ways MORE dangerous than Fleener. Teams may not feel the need to pay attention to him when he lines up tight on probable running downs.

And 40 yards later he is in the end zone.... hehe... I would totally love to see him be this type of talent.

It will be interesting to see once the pre season games start how much game speed Allen really has. If he can take it to the house and be more than a possession player then Indy really has hit the jackpot.

Go Colts.

[andreaallennyc]

Coby Fleener was a grad student and missed very few OTAs ... The student rules didn't apply to him ... So your comments about that are off base. He and Allen, as you say, have different strengths and different roles. Don't worry about the Coby-Andrew chemistry. It's there ... And needs a lot less practice. You're reading too much into the daily variations in pass distribution.

[John Dee]

His blocking has always left something to be desired. He isn't terrible, but he is by no means great. He might be able to hold his own for a play or two, but he isn't known for his blocking ability. On the other hand, Allen is regarded as a more complete tight end and has won the Mackey award for the nation's best TE, as TKnight said, which Fleener has never done. I still think and hope both will be very good, but I think Allen is a better TE right now.

So was Dallas Clark not a good TE? Because that is what Fleener will be. and as SMonroe pointed out.. Dallas was "down right POOR" some of the time. IMO Clark was poor all the time blocking. But it is not what the Colts NEEDED out of him.

TE controversy???... nice problem to have. Half the teams in the NFL don't have one. Let alone 2 that are considered legit weapons.

[NewColtsFan]

I think we have some tremendous advantages with Allen and Fleener.

The fact that they're so different, but yet, can both the tight end, or H-back roll... is a HUGE plus.

You could see Allen as the TE, and Coby in the slot, or going in motion.

OR....

You could see Fleener as the TE and Allen first lined up as fullback and coming out of the backfield for a short pass... Arians is going to have a great time coming up with different ideas for them!

And, all we need is for a linebacker or safety to have a moment's hesitation and that's all we need for a first down, or better!

I think in the long haul we'll be very happy we went with these two players back to back, no matter which went in what round... they're both good and they're both going to help us -- a lot!

[dylan8678]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Fleener was at all ota's.

[Dan]

I'm very happy with them both. Fleener is far more of a Dallas Clark player (meaning, SR but called TE anyway) so will get plenty of yards and TDs. Let's not allow the fact Allen is looking very good to diminish Fleener's ability.

[Andy]

How many days have you been to camp this year Andy?

Day 3, 4 and most of 5.

Will be there for Day 6, 7 and then I'm off to Kiawah Island to watch the PGA Championship!

[Rifford]

Running the football is all about attitude and will.

I've got to think that physical ability has got to play a role in there somewhere. I might have the right attitude and all the will in the world, but put me in front of Haloti Ngata and let's see what happens.

I'll go as far as to say that our running game will improve compared to past seasons, and while I hope we can establish a power running game, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

I might be looking too far ahead, but I hope--with all the cap room we have next year--we make a serious run at Jake Long. Kick Castanzo to the right side and suddenly our line got a heck of a lot better.

[NewColtsFan]

I've got to think that physical ability has got to play a role in there somewhere. I might have the right attitude and all the will in the world, but put me in front of Haloti Ngata and let's see what happens.

I'll go as far as to say that our running game will improve compared to past seasons, and while I hope we can establish a power running game, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

I might be looking too far ahead, but I hope--with all the cap room we have next year--we make a serious run at Jake Long. Kick Castanzo to the right side and suddenly our line got a heck of a lot better.

Don't be surprised if/when Miami either locks-up Long with a long-term deal, or puts a franchise tag on him.

Hard to see them letting him walk away for nothing....

Just sayin....

[dw49]

Wasn't Allen considered the more complete TE coming out and was actually rated as a better TE than Fleener by many scouts? I've never been sold on Fleener and I still think Upshaw would have been a better pick. Hopefully, Fleener proves me wrong

Agree on both counts. I just don't see where Fleener was that impressive at Stanford. Non existent as a freshan and sophmore , ok as a junior and made the most out of around 30 catches as a senior. I thought Upshaw or Janoris Jenkins.

[Jay Kirk]

A player like Fleener, IMO is a luxury... A player like Allen, IMO is a necessity. If teams want to win they have to have an end that can block and catch. And if a team wants to win BIG they need players who can score from anywhere on the field. . Fleener is a WR playing TE. He will be a very good asset to Indy,

This O will produce this season. I have said it since the draft. I really like how this O is shaping up.

I have to agree with your assesment John 100 percent,and this staff knew this when they drafted both.They will have a power running game,the line is much bigger and athletic with an attitude,not to mention behind such a line they have the backs to do it,in steps Ballard & Carter if he can hold on to the ball.It seems to me some people dont have the vision to see what this staff is doing,so IMO they just need to set back and watch

[21isSuperman]

So was Dallas Clark not a good TE? Because that is what Fleener will be. and as SMonroe pointed out.. Dallas was "down right POOR" some of the time. IMO Clark was poor all the time blocking. But it is not what the Colts NEEDED out of him.

TE controversy???... nice problem to have. Half the teams in the NFL don't have one. Let alone 2 that are considered legit weapons.

True. And I don't think either one will be a bust. I think both can be very good. I just wasn't/am not sold on the Fleener pick yet.

[21isSuperman]

Agree on both counts. I just don't see where Fleener was that impressive at Stanford. Non existent as a freshan and sophmore , ok as a junior and made the most out of around 30 catches as a senior. I thought Upshaw or Janoris Jenkins.

I would have loved Upshaw at that pick. I think Upshaw will be a very good player in the NFL

[Gavin]

Yeah dont get me started on passing on Upshaw, that made my blood boil even though I saw it coming.

[Hans Moleman]

Allen's a prototype H-back. He can play the traditional TE role, and can play in the backfield as a lead blocker. Very well rounded player and a jack of all trades. We won't be splitting him wide much, but he'll play a crucial role in helping Luck develop not just as a receiver, but in pass blocking.

Fleener's the prototype WR/TE hybrid, only he blocks better and plays with more power than that style of player generally does. The speed and burst is right there on film....he's the last TE I can remember that led the Pac 10/12/whatever it is now in yards per reception. Also, Stanford ran a power running offense, and Fleener was able to stay on the field and be effective as a blocker. Arians is finding that out now and is surprised at how much better Fleener is at in-line blocking than he thought he'd be. He's got gamebreaking ability as a receiver.

Make no bones about it, we got the two best TE's in the draft this year and their skills are complimentary. I loved the picks then and it's only going to get better once they get some real playing time.