Is the Defense Pathetically Bad?

[Smonroe]

17 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Then isn't that a head coaching issue? After 3 years and nothing changes. Shouldn't Shane pull the trigger and fire Bradley.  If he doesn't, isn't he failing in his duties as a HC?  Just saying. U have been saying that a new D coach would bring some positive results. Let's say u r right and although u r not an  NFL coach, I  do respect your knowledge as it pertains to football. Shane must see it but isn't he  being negligent  by allowing it to continue?

Maybe the GM should give him better players first.  You have to be ultra conservative if you don’t trust your DBs to cover or press.  

[SR711]

The defense has been pretty bad this season and played a direct role in all 3 of the losses.  If you get even an average to slightly below average performance relatively in those games, at least two of those are wins and we are perhaps looking at 4-1 record right now even with a raw inexperienced QB who is developing.

 

This season so far is a case study in how combining low level talent with a rather simplistic, easy to strategize against scheme can lead to complete ineptitude of a unit and sink a season.  

[Patrick Miller]

The answer is yes. 

[IinD]

[1959Colts]

I never saw so much terrible open field tackling. Way too.often we have the play stopped, for like no gain, but we miss the tackle, and they run for an additional 10 yards. Frustrating to watch

[JediXMan]

On 9/23/2024 at 12:36 PM, JediXMan said:

Is it a good defense no but currently it’s 15th is PPG. Also surprisingly not even last in rushing Defense Cowboys are last. 

Yeah this is a bottom 10 defense lol.

[coltsfan_canada]

[Boondoggle]

We're getting roughly what I expected we'd get from this hire.  He'll be gone after this season though thankfully and hopefully this next time around the hire will be strong.

 

I like the offensive design and he's locked up in the HC gig.  So now if they can get the right DC hire in they will be in very good shape schematically.

[indyagent17]

It’s truly a combination of coaching and skill. Now when you have an NFL franchise one, the most important thing you do is finding the best backups in case someone goes down. But more I look over the Ballard regime I see that Ballard has been a lot of high draft picks and the defensive line, but he ignored the defensive back room and the subs we have either seem to be lazy or just don’t get the pro games. But I know one thing once we get a new defensive coordinator and all the coaches that go with that it’ll be a good start. The fans will understand frustration and it may save Ballard’s job for at least one more year just can’t play 10 yards off a receiver on a 3 yard First down. I’m tired of watching three  defensive players circling a receiver and giving a big enough cushion where the ball is thrown right in these things are unacceptable. No NFL defense should look the way that ours does and has been for a long time.

[Zoltan]

Yup we allowed 2 touchdowns on drives of 1 play and another touchdown on a drive of 2 plays, thats giving up an easy 21 points. Thats hard to do.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

26 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

We're getting roughly what I expected we'd get from this hire.  He'll be gone after this season though thankfully and hopefully this next time around the hire will be strong.

 

I like the offensive design and he's locked up in the HC gig.  So now if they can get the right DC hire in they will be in very good shape schematically.

Do you worry at all if Ballard gets fired Shane is gone too? This offense is on the right track. Or does Ballard get another pass allowing Shane to hire a new DC?

[Zoltan]

On a side note Justin Fields only has 68 yards so far against the Cowboys with 11 minutes left in the 3rd quarter. After we gave up 312 yards last week…

[DattMavis]

33 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Do you worry at all if Ballard gets fired Shane is gone too? This offense is on the right track. Or does Ballard get another pass allowing Shane to hire a new DC?

No, Shane is safe currently. The highest risk is Gus and then Chris.

I think those two get fired first before Shane is a consideration.

 

Having said that, I have not liked Shane's press conferences this year. I know it's about how you perform and not how you talk, but his answers have often been terrible. At least Gus has accepted the blame and when it works, explained what he did to adjust. Today's defensive performance was not really on Gus. Our players were just terrible. That won't save him though.

[DattMavis]

28 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

On a side note Justin Fields only has 68 yards so far against the Cowboys with 11 minutes left in the 3rd quarter. After we gave up 312 yards last week…

Not a shock. Malik Willis had an 85% completion percentage against us.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, DattMavis said:

No, Shane is safe currently. The highest risk is Gus and then Chris.

I think those two get fired first before Shane is a consideration.

 

Having said that, I have not liked Shane's press conferences this year. I know it's about how you perform and not how you talk, but his answers have often been terrible. At least Gus has accepted the blame and when it works, explained what he did to adjust. Today's defensive performance was not really on Gus. Our players were just terrible. That won't save him though.

One thing I have learned with Shane you’re not going to get much from a presser with him. His side of the ball has not really been the issue. Outside a few troubles with AR accuracy it’s been good. I agree Gus will  ne scape goat when the truth is injuries and the secondary are an issue.

 

I just don’t know how Irsay feels about Steichen. As long as the offense looks like it did today I don’t think Steichen a job will be in danger. As long as AR shows like he is the future and is improving he will be fine.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If colts can stay at around .500 when that last stretch of the season comes they could still have some hope for playoffs. The question will be can they get some guys back soon enough.

[GoColts8818]

It’s sure looking like it right now.

[DavePSL]

7 hours ago, Zoltan said:

On a side note Justin Fields only has 68 yards so far against the Cowboys with 11 minutes left in the 3rd quarter. After we gave up 312 yards last week…

How is that possible with all the injuries Dallas has on defense?

[MikeCurtis]

9 hours ago, JediXMan said:

Yeah this is a bottom 10 defense lol.

Bottom 5

[MikeCurtis]

Hassan Reddick, MIGHT be an option to help the defense

 

The Jets got him for a conditional 3 (I believe)

 

The guy is a proven talent

 

We need DE help in a major way 

 

 

 

 

[JediXMan]

2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Hassan Reddick, MIGHT be an option to help the defense

 

The Jets got him for a conditional 3 (I believe)

 

The guy is a proven talent

 

We need DE help in a major way 

 

 

 

 

We needed secondary help and Ballard refused and this is where we are.

[richard pallo]

10 minutes ago, JediXMan said:

We needed secondary help and Ballard refused and this is where we are.

Budda Baker is still available.  Lol

[Smonroe]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Budda Baker is still available.  Lol

I like our guys! (that we found wandering around in the parking lot and have them starting).  

[richard pallo]

The biggest problem is tackling.  Our linebackers and a couple of guys in the secondary can’t tackle.  That’s basic football yet they refuse to.  They try to knock someone down instead of wrap up the players.  It happens over and over.  Gus sees it but yet the players don’t do it.  Maybe it’s time to bench a player or two and play some guys willing to tackle.  Sometimes that’s all it takes.

[Solid84]

Per PFF the Colts had 16 total missed tackles against the Jags which is the worst of the season so far.

 

Speed had no less than 6 missed tackles.

Cross had 3

Blackmon had 2

and a handful of others had 1.

 

We had 4 defensive starters with Tackles grades in the 30s and under - which is garbage tier by the way:

Speed

Cross

Blackmon

Stewart

 

Raekwon Davis and Tomi didn't have a single tackle. NOT. ONE. On 23 and 18 snaps respectively. Tomi did "shine" with a missed tackle.

 

 

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, Solid84 said:

Per PFF the Colts had 16 total missed tackles against the Jags which is the worst of the season so far.

 

Speed had no less than 6 missed tackles.

Cross had 3

Blackmon had 2

and a handful of others had 1.

 

We had 4 defensive starters with Tackles grades in the 30s and under - which is garbage tier by the way:

Speed

Cross

Blackmon

Stewart

 

Raekwon Davis and Tomi didn't have a single tackle. NOT. ONE. On 23 and 18 snaps respectively. Tomi did "shine" with a missed tackle.

 

 

I think I would bench Speed and Franklin for starters.  See what happens.  Need to shake things up.  

[JediXMan]

25 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

The biggest problem is tackling.  Our linebackers and a couple of guys in the secondary can’t tackle.  That’s basic football yet they refuse to.  They try to knock someone down instead of wrap up the players.  It happens over and over.  Gus sees it but yet the players don’t do it.  Maybe it’s time to bench a player or two and play some guys willing to tackle.  Sometimes that’s all it takes.

What’s strange is they had a decent game tackling last week against the Steelers. It seems they can’t have consistency week to week tackling.

[indyagent17]

11 hours ago, DattMavis said:

No, Shane is safe currently. The highest risk is Gus and then Chris.

I think those two get fired first before Shane is a consideration.

 

Having said that, I have not liked Shane's press conferences this year. I know it's about how you perform and not how you talk, but his answers have often been terrible. At least Gus has accepted the blame and when it works, explained what he did to adjust. Today's defensive performance was not really on Gus. Our players were just terrible. That won't save him though.

I really think he is holding back trying not to call out coaches and schemes. Im sure he and Gus have had some one sided chewing out sessions 

 

[Superman]

18 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Then isn't that a head coaching issue? After 3 years and nothing changes. Shouldn't Shane pull the trigger and fire Bradley.  If he doesn't, isn't he failing in his duties as a HC?  Just saying. U have been saying that a new D coach would bring some positive results. Let's say u r right and although u r not an  NFL coach, I  do respect your knowledge as it pertains to football. Shane must see it but isn't he  being negligent  by allowing it to continue?

 

Yes, it's a head coaching issue. 

 

When Steichen kept Bradley in 2023, I understood it. I viewed Bradley as a holdover that pre-dated Steichen, and it was my hope that he'd hire a different DC this season. When Steichen kept Bradley in 2024, it became Steichen's decision to own, whether it worked or failed. 

 

And yes, part of this is on Ballard, and whoever else is making decisions in the building (Irsay, etc.) But I don't think the GM is sitting in gameplan meetings. 

 

I'm not even calling for them to fire Bradley. I think that's where this is headed (or should be, IMO), but a guy who has been coaching football his entire life has to have some answers. But this is how Bradley calls the defense: https://youtu.be/DndE4mV9MSE?si=B7ehWJmkxVbx33cJ 

 

He's ultra conservative, and his defense still gives up big plays. I know the defensive backfield is not super exciting, but it's also not totally bereft of talent, as some people claim. We've seen the guys in our secondary that everyone spent all summer hating on make several plays already this season. But Gus is completely uninterested in defending the first ten yards of the field in the passing game. And then he runs a scheme that frequently results in LBs and safeties getting matched up on the other team's best receivers well down the field (like EJ Speed and Nick Cross vs Rome Odunze; even a rookie QB can figure that one out). 

 

Outside of yesterday's game, the strength of this defense is the pass rush. (And yesterday, they were without 3 of their 5 best pass rushers, and one who did play is a rookie.) But we refuse to let the DBs engage in the first five yards, so the pass rush gets nullified by the quick passing game. It doesn't take a dramatic change, we shouldn't need a different DC, all we need is to let the corners play closer to the line of scrimmage. We gave up 8.7 yards per play yesterday (not per pass play). Trevor Lawrence has been a mess this season, and he was an all star against us (again). 

 

Steichen can't tell Gus that he needs to make some simple adjustments to give the defense a fighting chance? He's not just in charge of the offense, he's in charge of the entire team. That includes game plans, strategy, player development, etc. At this point, the results of this defense are a reflection of Steichen's choices, as much as anyone else's. 

 

(Not to mention the tackling, which is partly personnel, but also goes back to this team's choices in training camp and preseason, which are a reflection of coaching.)

 

There's little point in firing Bradley right now, but he cannot be the defensive coordinator next season. If he is, I'm as out on Steichen as I will be on anyone else connected to this operation. 

[Superman]

Just waived Flowers. I guess that's something...

 

 

[Solid84]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

Outside of yesterday's game, the strength of this defense is the pass rush. (And yesterday, they were without 3 of their 5 best pass rushers, and one who did play is a rookie.) But we refuse to let the DBs engage in the first five yards, so the pass rush gets nullified by the quick passing game. It doesn't take a dramatic change, we shouldn't need a different DC, all we need is to let the corners play closer to the line of scrimmage. We gave up 8.7 yards per play yesterday (not per pass play). Trevor Lawrence has been a mess this season, and he was an all star against us (again). 

I agree with everything you said, but wanted to comment on the bolded.

 

Time to throw against our defense this season:

 

Stroud 2.91

Willis 2.53

Williams 2.64

Fields 3.18

Lawrence 2.35

 

We may have missed a lot of Dlinemen, but the lack of pass rush ultimately wasn't the reason our defense sucked. Lawrence was dinking and dunking the defense to pieces and that's on everything behind the Dline AND Gus.

 

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I agree with everything you said, but wanted to comment on the bolded.

 

Time to throw against our defense this season:

 

Stroud 2.91

Willis 2.53

Williams 2.64

Fields 3.18

Lawrence 2.35

 

We may have missed a lot of Dlinemen, but the lack of pass rush ultimately wasn't the reason our defense sucked. Lawrence was dinking and dunking the defense to pieces and that's on everything behind the Dline AND Gus.

 

 

Willis barely faced any big pass situations, so that's kind of an outlier. But yesterday, they let the WRs do whatever they wanted, and Lawrence never had to worry about being pressured because he always had a quick option. 

 

It's 101 vs Bradley's defense. Your receivers will have free releases, you can complete as many passes as you want, just take the gift. 

[Moosejawcolt]

31 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yes, it's a head coaching issue. 

 

When Steichen kept Bradley in 2023, I understood it. I viewed Bradley as a holdover that pre-dated Steichen, and it was my hope that he'd hire a different DC this season. When Steichen kept Bradley in 2024, it became Steichen's decision to own, whether it worked or failed. 

 

And yes, part of this is on Ballard, and whoever else is making decisions in the building (Irsay, etc.) But I don't think the GM is sitting in gameplan meetings. 

 

I'm not even calling for them to fire Bradley. I think that's where this is headed (or should be, IMO), but a guy who has been coaching football his entire life has to have some answers. But this is how Bradley calls the defense: https://youtu.be/DndE4mV9MSE?si=B7ehWJmkxVbx33cJ 

 

He's ultra conservative, and his defense still gives up big plays. I know the defensive backfield is not super exciting, but it's also not totally bereft of talent, as some people claim. We've seen the guys in our secondary that everyone spent all summer hating on make several plays already this season. But Gus is completely uninterested in defending the first ten yards of the field in the passing game. And then he runs a scheme that frequently results in LBs and safeties getting matched up on the other team's best receivers well down the field (like EJ Speed and Nick Cross vs Rome Odunze; even a rookie QB can figure that one out). 

 

Outside of yesterday's game, the strength of this defense is the pass rush. (And yesterday, they were without 3 of their 5 best pass rushers, and one who did play is a rookie.) But we refuse to let the DBs engage in the first five yards, so the pass rush gets nullified by the quick passing game. It doesn't take a dramatic change, we shouldn't need a different DC, all we need is to let the corners play closer to the line of scrimmage. We gave up 8.7 yards per play yesterday (not per pass play). Trevor Lawrence has been a mess this season, and he was an all star against us (again). 

 

Steichen can't tell Gus that he needs to make some simple adjustments to give the defense a fighting chance? He's not just in charge of the offense, he's in charge of the entire team. That includes game plans, strategy, player development, etc. At this point, the results of this defense are a reflection of Steichen's choices, as much as anyone else's. 

 

(Not to mention the tackling, which is partly personnel, but also goes back to this team's choices in training camp and preseason, which are a reflection of coaching.)

 

There's little point in firing Bradley right now, but he cannot be the defensive coordinator next season. If he is, I'm as out on Steichen as I will be on anyone else connected to this operation. 

Thanks.  I know it maybe an excuse from Bradley, but I think he has zero confidence in the back end, For curiosity sake, I would like to see a change. I know we go back on forth on whether it is scheme, coaching and/or talent. I think it is a combination of all 3, but I lean more towards talent. I mean if you look at where these guy were drafted. What do you really expect from them? They are not 1st and 2nd rounders back there. They are late round picks and sad to say, they are playing like it. That is why  I was so frustrated with Ballard at the beginning of the season. He wanted to let them play, however we were not talking about 2nd and 1st round talent in the back end who had a ton of upside. Plus, Brents that injury history to boot. I also think that the lbs are a liability. I have been saying that dont buy into their gaudy tackling stats. Lb tackling stats in this style of defense are always high as it is the way this defense operates. Franklin and Speed are liability in coverage and I believe it should be a strength in order to play at a high level in this defense. Honestly, the defense needs a total rebuild unless we get a great DC who can take the talent and put them in a system that plays to their strengths.  

[Defjamz26]

I said earlier in the year when the run defense was the big issue, that the secondary was way worse than it appeared. This was the game that really showed that they are exactly who we thought they are.

[CR91]

First and foremost I dont blame the players at all. I blame the scheme and I blame the lack of depth. Cover 2 and 3 concepts just do not work in today's NFL. It's too easy to beat especially with teams having a lot of West coast philosophies in almost every offense. Sitting back and letting the offense dictate your defensive approach is a losing mentality. You can't sit and react in zones. Offenses just pick you apart. I personally think a 12 play td drive that ate 5 mins is more demoralizing then an 80 yard bomb. We need a more aggressive attacking defense that forces offensives to make a mistake instead of hoping they make a mistake. 

 

Second I think Ballard continuingly being stubborn to his approach to building a team continues to be his biggest problem. He refuses to admit there's a problem until the problem actually becomes a problem. He did it at QB, LT, Edge, WR and now it's continuing with CB

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Thanks.  I know it maybe an excuse from Bradley, but I think he has zero confidence in the back end,

 

It is an excuse, and a weak one. I've said it several times -- Bradley brings nothing to the table. It's his job to scheme and gameplan, and all he comes up with is 'what if we gave even more cushion?' 

 

The talent probably isn't good enough, but what Bradley does is malpractice.

 

[JediXMan]

[Moosejawcolt]

40 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It is an excuse, and a weak one. I've said it several times -- Bradley brings nothing to the table. It's his job to scheme and gameplan, and all he comes up with is 'what if we gave even more cushion?' 

 

The talent probably isn't good enough, but what Bradley does is malpractice.

 

I think idea that this defense is also cheaper to build is a myth. Sure, teams have shown that you can build the secondary with 3rd rounders and even later. However, if you look at the Bucs when they were dominant. Saap, Booger, Rice and Brooks were all 1st rounder. I have always believed that running this defense, at an elite level, requires a lot of talent especially along the D line. Just my take

[Moosejawcolt]

49 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I said earlier in the year when the run defense was the big issue, that the secondary was way worse than it appeared. This was the game that really showed that they are exactly who we thought they are.

What's even sadder is that this defense is apparently designed to guard against the big play. Now, they cannot even do that. Change is needed and now!

[Two_pound]

I have never been a fan of Bradley, it's almost like the nfl made us hire him so we wouldn't be competitive no matter how good the offense has been. Bradley is in his 19th season as a coach in the nfl at various levels. He has had 4 what you could consider "good" years. He was absolutely abysmal as the jags head coach. It defies logic to keep him, I am one of the biggest Ballard supporters on here because I can see the talent and depth on this roster, unlike Grigson and the last 6 years of Polian when the roster slowly desinagrated. Tobin did ok his first 2 years but after the 95 season his moves made no sense. Bradley just plane as day is not a good coach and he especially sucks as a coordinator. I don't get it, why keep doing the same things over and over when they haven't worked for the past 3 years???? We can change quarterbacks year after year and still put up top 10-15 yards and points per game, but we can't play a shred of defense, come on.