Why is Ballard not improving his Secondary?

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, Smonroe said:

It all comes down to the O Line.  If they’re as good as last season, the offense could be top 5.   If they regress it doesn’t matter how good the skill players are, and the risk of an AR injury increases.  
 

Plus, if they’re good and this is a run first, ball control offense, the D only has to be good enough.  Just can’t afford to give up big plays.  
 

Hence why Gus plays a soft zone.  He’s compensating for the lack of speed, talent and experience in the D backfield. 

 

Like you said, not complicated, just logical.  

 

 I'm thinking positively that Goncalves will be a better backup RT than we had last  year. And high hopes that Pinter/Bortolini can be better at C. 

 Backup Guard has me very concerned. lol

 Steichen will keep pounding the run around 50/50 most weeks. But any team with back seven weaknesses should feel some pain.

[cdgacoltsfan]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

After seeing the little amount Simmons got, most definitely 

Apparently, the rest of the NFL didn't deem Simmons as the greatest safety to walk the planet like our resident GMs did.

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, CR91 said:

I'm honestly not upset about losing Simmons as some on here are, but what I feel is the greater issue is Ballard refuses to admit there's a problem and then when it does become a problem he addresses it a year or so later.

 

Happened with LT, WR, Edge, QB, and now S

It will  be addressed  in next year's draft.

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Last year he said injuries was the downfall of the secondary. So he decided to put us in the same and kind of weaker position this year as last year. Absolutely no depth at CB or safety. I could live with cross as a starter as long as he went and got an insurance policy in case it didn’t work. But he didn’t.  
 

If Brent’s or Blackmon get injured we are in really deep trouble.

 

 FS  Cross Blackmon Thomas

 SS  Blackmon Harrison  Cross

  So our leadership thinks we are ok.

 Depth Denbo. Dabo

  

 CB  JuJu  Jones  Flowers  Moore

 Slot.  Moore  Simpson

 Depth  Lammons.  Abraham 

  

[CR91]

38 minutes ago, Stephen said:

It will  be addressed  in next year's draft.

 

Which is the problem. You can't wait for the draft to fix everything. 

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Apparently, the rest of the NFL didn't deem Simmons as the greatest safety to walk the planet like our resident GMs did.

well, that’s kind of why everyone was angry.  Because we had the cap space, Simmons wasn’t going to break the bank (I expected 1yr/$15million), and he was an instant upgrade.

 

it wasn’t that the board thought he was the best safety in the league, but getting him seemed like it made the most sense.

 

welp, Ballard has proven me wrong before and I hope that this is one of those times.  

[smittywerb]

Personally, I’m sad we didn’t get Simmons, but I feel better with the Blackmon at FS and Cross at SS.  FS is one of the most important positions in this defensive scheme.  We can afford to have ok talent at SS, but NOT FS.  

[cdgacoltsfan]

7 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

well, that’s kind of why everyone was angry.  Because we had the cap space, Simmons wasn’t going to break the bank (I expected 1yr/$15million), and he was an instant upgrade.

 

it wasn’t that the board thought he was the best safety in the league, but getting him seemed like it made the most sense.

 

welp, Ballard has proven me wrong before and I hope that this is one of those times.  

Ballard will get a better or equal player at a better price come cut time....remember where you heard it.

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Most these guys in here no I joke with them but that was small letters lol.

[Dingus McGirt]

1 hour ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Apparently, the rest of the NFL didn't deem Simmons as the greatest safety to walk the planet like our resident GMs did.

[cdgacoltsfan]

14 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

well, that’s kind of why everyone was angry.  Because we had the cap space, Simmons wasn’t going to break the bank (I expected 1yr/$15million), and he was an instant upgrade.

 

it wasn’t that the board thought he was the best safety in the league, but getting him seemed like it made the most sense.

 

welp, Ballard has proven me wrong before and I hope that this is one of those times.  

Maybe I'm naive but usually, when a premium player is available, there is a bidding war for that player. Not so much for Simmons....that should tell you something.

[Goatface Killah]

3 hours ago, BeanDiasucci said:

But how good? Good enough to win some playoff games? We haven't seen that yet. 

Not true he won a playoff game with Luck and shouldve won another one with Rivers. 

[ColtStrong2013]

4 hours ago, PackersNation said:

Ok, no more about Simmons here. Thank god.

 

Colts forum searching for the next secondary recruit to hammer for the next two weeks until they sign with someone else for 50% of projected cost.

[Smonroe]

5 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

TBF, the only ones we know about are Raimann and Downs.

 

Colts had (6) Day 2 picks in the 2022 and 2023 drafts, and at this point, those are the only two I would consider really good picks. Woods, Cross, Pierce and Brents haven't looked like good, let alone, excellent picks imo.

 

Far too early to say anything on 2024 though. I like AD. But I think the expectations are really high. 

 

True, but three of the four you mentioned are starters.  Not great players, so far, by any means.  But it says something.  You can see how many teams have first and second round busts the last few years.  I’d bet Ballard has more starters from those rounds, percentage wise, than most teams.  
 

However, as it’s been pointed out, the bottom line is - are you winning?  If you look at that stat alone, which is the most important one, he’s a middle of the road GM.  (Which directly corresponds to his failure to find a franchise QB after Luck retired).  
 

 

[Superman]

@Solid84

 

Simmons got more than I thought he would. About double what Diggs got. 

[Solid84]

30 minutes ago, Superman said:

@Solid84

 

Simmons got more than I thought he would. About double what Diggs got. 

Yeah, saw that. Still quite a bit less than his last deal at $15m AAV.

 

Didn't expect we'd sign him anyway, so it is what it is. The Falcons got a good deal there if he's still got it.

[Dingus McGirt]

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Colts forum searching for the next secondary recruit to hammer for the next two weeks until they sign with someone else for 50% of projected cost.

[Goatface Killah]

5 hours ago, krunk said:

Not with Ballard at safety. He always sticks to his measurable. He only deviates at Nickel CB 

Khari Willis was about the same size as Baker.

[Solid84]

 

[smittywerb]

5 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Maybe I'm naive but usually, when a premium player is available, there is a bidding war for that player. Not so much for Simmons....that should tell you something.

 

Now that we saw what he went for, I can buy that too.  But still, imo, I feel he would’ve been an upgrade.

[stitches]

I am and have been at a point with the secondary where I know we have problems, all fans seems to know we have problems, the media knows we have problems and keeps hammering Ballard with it, all the while Ballard seems content with just letting the young guys play, so... I've just decided to let it play out without harping much about it and let Ballard reap what he sowed. 

[krunk]

7 hours ago, Goatface Killah said:

Khari Willis was about the same size as Baker.

What is about? Khari played SS not FS.

If he deviated that's probably why. 

[Yoshinator]

I would love it if the Colts fanbase would chant "fix the secondary" during the 2nd preseason game Vs the Cards the entire time we were on defense, and it got national coverage by ESPN and NFL Network. Something like that would possibly convince Irsay to force Ballard to do something to fix the secondary if it did poorly and gave up some big plays.

[Solid84]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

I am and have been at a point with the secondary where I know we have problems, all fans seems to know we have problems, the media knows we have problems and keeps hammering Ballard with it, all the while Ballard seems content with just letting the young guys play, so... I've just decided to let it play out without harping much about it and let Ballard reap what he sowed. 

Exactly where I’m at as well. 

[PackersNation]

38 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

I would love it if the Colts fanbase would chant "fix the secondary" during the 2nd preseason game Vs the Cards the entire time we were on defense, and it got national coverage by ESPN and NFL Network. Something like that would possibly convince Irsay to force Ballard to do something to fix the secondary if it did poorly and gave up some big plays.

You seriously don't think that what fans think or say matters to how the team is constructed? And not all Colts fans agree with you on the secondary. Plus the starters are not even playing Saturday, so your whole if they play poorly we riot thing is pointless. 

 

You can stand up and chant whatever you want, but the players, coaches, and front office couldn't care less. Why not support the players that are on the squad now that actually want to be a Colt? Stop wishing for some half washed up vets that don't even want to be there.

 

If the Colts listened to what fans want them to do, then they may never win a game again.

[cdgacoltsfan]

33 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

I would love it if the Colts fanbase would chant "fix the secondary" during the 2nd preseason game Vs the Cards the entire time we were on defense, and it got national coverage by ESPN and NFL Network. Something like that would possibly convince Irsay to force Ballard to do something to fix the secondary if it did poorly and gave up some big plays.

[John Hammonds]

38 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

I would love it if the Colts fanbase would chant "fix the secondary" during the 2nd preseason game Vs the Cards the entire time we were on defense, and it got national coverage by ESPN and NFL Network. Something like that would possibly convince Irsay to force Ballard to do something to fix the secondary if it did poorly and gave up some big plays.

With our luck, we make three interceptions, returning two for touchdowns, totally negating the chants from the fans!   

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, John Hammonds said:

With our luck, we make three interceptions, returning two for touchdowns, totally negating the chants from the fans!   

If that made our defense elite and lit a fire under the defense, I'd be so happy lol. Everyone needs motivation, and sometimes it could be people not believing in you to push you to that next level. Apparently the coaches can't bring out the best in these guys, so maybe the fans can by hating on them lol.  

[Yoshinator]

10 minutes ago, PackersNation said:

You seriously don't think that what fans think or say matters to how the team is constructed? And not all Colts fans agree with you on the secondary.  Plus the starters are not even playing Sunday, so your whole if they play poorly we riot  thing is pointless. 

 

You can stand up and chant whatever you want, but the players, coaches, and front office couldn't care less. Why not support the players that actually are on the squad now that actually want to be a Colt? Stop wishing for some half washed up vets that don't even want to be there.

 

If the Colts listened to what fans want them to do, then they may never win a game again.

It can matter. My way may not, but if Colts fans stop going to games, or the crowd is filled with away fans, or if merchandise sales go way down, Irsay will care. We may not be to that level yet, but if we allow 30+ points a game again, then Isay will notice. 

 

Also, just because players are on the squad now doesn't mean they want to be a Colt. They have to sign here once drafted for the most part. I bet a lot of them would leave in FA if another team in a better location offered the same amount we did in FA to re-sign. 

 

Simmons isn't a washed up vet either, he's one of the top players in the league still. You act like what I and other fans want is completely different then what the league does. It's different than what the Colts and Chris Ballard does. Get it right. All the Safeties so far that the forum wanted have been signed by other teams. They are not FAs that are bad players that no team wants. The Titans signed Diggs and traded for Sneed. The Falcons signed Simmons. So the fans aren't out of line. Two GMs with the Falcons and Titans agree with us. They disagree with Ballard. This isn't me Vs Ballard as a GM, this is Ballard Vs the Titans and Falcons GM opinion. Who is right? We will see. It's a pro Vs two other pro though, not dumb fans thinking they know better.

[John Hammonds]

10 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Colts forum searching for the next secondary recruit to hammer for the next two weeks until they sign with someone else for 50% of projected cost.

Ok, since you're throwing it out there, I'll be the first up to bat.

 

Colts could trade a player from a position in which we are relatively deep for a corner that was drafted high but has had a hard time making the starting lineup.  We trade one of our tight ends for....  whom?

 

CB Kaiir Elam, Buffalo -- Former first round pick who had injury problems during his first two years.  He's had a good camp this year, but he still has yet to crack the starting lineup.  Do the Bills need a tight end?

 

CB Caleb Farley, Titans -- Also a former first round pick.  Had a LOT of injury problems, which has totally kept him off of the field.  New Titans GM has refused to give him a 5th year option.  Is there anything that Farley can offer?  Can he stay healthy enough to play a full year?

 

I'm sure there are others out there that could be targeted as well.

[Defjamz26]

12 hours ago, smittywerb said:

Personally, I’m sad we didn’t get Simmons, but I feel better with the Blackmon at FS and Cross at SS.  FS is one of the most important positions in this defensive scheme.  We can afford to have ok talent at SS, but NOT FS.  

Thats true but Gus Bradley’s system is weird. The SS position is very complex in his scheme and requires a lot. That’s how Blackmon ended up there after they announced Cross as the starter during his rookie year.

 

I’ve never thought Blackmon was a true SS. He thrives in coverage where he can go and find the ball. He’s just a good SS in Bradley’s scheme. This is ultimately one of the reasons I’m not a fan of Bradley. His system does not cater to younger players being able to come in and play freely. Blackmon is too small to play SS and Cross doesn’t yet have the IQ to play FS in traditional Cover-2 defenses. The simplest answer should be to put Blackmon at FS and Cross at SS, but with Bradley it’s not that simple.

[1959Colts]

13 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 FS  Cross Blackmon Thomas

 SS  Blackmon Harrison  Cross

  So our leadership thinks we are ok.

 Depth Denbo. Dabo

  

 CB  JuJu  Jones  Flowers  Moore

 Slot.  Moore  Simpson

 Depth  Lammons.  Abraham 

  

I'd throw DJ Baker in there at cornerback as well. Kent Sterling just said how Baker had one of the best camps.

[cdgacoltsfan]

1 hour ago, Yoshinator said:

It can matter. My way may not, but if Colts fans stop going to games, or the crowd is filled with away fans, or if merchandise sales go way down, Irsay will care. We may not be to that level yet, but if we allow 30+ points a game again, then Isay will notice. 

 

Also, just because players are on the squad now doesn't mean they want to be a Colt. They have to sign here once drafted for the most part. I bet a lot of them would leave in FA if another team in a better location offered the same amount we did in FA to re-sign. 

 

Simmons isn't a washed up vet either, he's one of the top players in the league still. You act like what I and other fans want is completely different then what the league does. It's different than what the Colts and Chris Ballard does. Get it right. All the Safeties so far that the forum wanted have been signed by other teams. They are not FAs that are bad players that no team wants. The Titans signed Diggs and traded for Sneed. The Falcons signed Simmons. So the fans aren't out of line. Two GMs with the Falcons and Titans agree with us. They disagree with Ballard. This isn't me Vs Ballard as a GM, this is Ballard Vs the Titans and Falcons GM opinion. Who is right? We will see. It's a pro Vs two other pro though, not dumb fans thinking they know better.

Simmons is so great that the Broncos made no effort to extend him. He's a 31 year old 7 million dollar bandaid.

[Yoshinator]

7 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Simmons is so great that the Broncos made no effort to extend him. He's a 31 year old 7 million dollar bandaid.

Nope, but the Saints and the Falcons wanted him and the Falcons got him. It's personal preference based on which GM liked him or not. Ballard doesn't exactly have the best track record with the Secondary and he doesn't like to spend in FA. I'll take Mickey Loomis and Terry Fontenot's opinion over Chris Ballard here on the secondary.

[cdgacoltsfan]

31 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Nope, but the Saints and the Falcons wanted him and the Falcons got him. It's personal preference based on which GM liked him or not. Ballard doesn't exactly have the best track record with the Secondary and he doesn't like to spend in FA. I'll take Mickey Loomis and Terry Fontenot's opinion over Chris Ballard here on the secondary.

Yep those two have sure built two stellar rosters and know what they are doing. The other 30 GMs are clueless.

[tfunky14]

You all are not coaches, or worked for a sports team evaluating talent.  You can complain all you want, boycott this and that but the bottom line. Your opinion doesn't mean crap.  

 

Like a Owner, GM, Coach... you hire who you think will do the best job and you trust them to do so. 

 

I'm supporting the team for the 2024 season.   

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, tfunky14 said:

You all are not coaches, or worked for a sports team evaluating talent.  You can complain all you want, boycott this and that but the bottom line. Your opinion doesn't mean crap.  

 

Like a Owner, GM, Coach... you hire who you think will do the best job and you trust them to do so. 

 

I'm supporting the team for the 2024 season.   

Your opinion doesn't mean crap either. All the pro-Ballard posters can do is compare Ballard to me (or whichever poster is speaking negatively about him) to try and make Ballard look good or that person look bad while ignoring the fact that other GMs are doing exactly what people such as myself are suggesting Ballard should do. 

 

We've seen this movie before. Ballard doesn't spend in FA, doesn't improve the team enough, then when injuries or poor performance happens and we don't make the playoffs, Ballard says "it's on me", However, you want to bash people who want to improve the team and win. Maybe you should grow some standards and stop appealing to authority. 

[Smonroe]

9 minutes ago, tfunky14 said:

You all are not coaches, or worked for a sports team evaluating talent.  You can complain all you want, boycott this and that but the bottom line. Your opinion doesn't mean crap.  

 

Like a Owner, GM, Coach... you hire who you think will do the best job and you trust them to do so. 

 

I'm supporting the team for the 2024 season.   

I don’t think anyone here is delusional enough to think anything they say or do matters to the team.  
 

You can support the team and still complain, or state what you think is better for the team.  That’s the point of this forum. 
 

This thread is about the secondary.  No one can doubt they don’t look good.  Not in practice or in scrimmage.  Ballard is betting on the guys we have.  He’s basically saying there’s no one out there that we can afford who would improve the situation, right?   
 

A lot of us disagree.  Time will tell who was right.  

[John Hammonds]

12 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Your opinion doesn't mean crap either. All the pro-Ballard posters can do is compare Ballard to me (or whichever poster is speaking negatively about him) to try and make Ballard look good or that person look bad while ignoring the fact that other GMs are doing exactly what people such as myself are suggesting Ballard should do. 

 

We've seen this movie before. Ballard doesn't spend in FA, doesn't improve the team enough, then when injuries or poor performance happens and we don't make the playoffs, Ballard says "it's on me", However, you want to bash people who want to improve the team and win. Maybe you should grow some standards and stop appealing to authority. 

I'll be honest, Yoshi.  After watching that first preseason game, an image came unbidden, by crystal clear to me:  casting forward 5 months to the end of the season, where we win only 6 games and finish dead last in passing defense, and Ballard starting his press conference with "I know things didn't go well in the secondary, and that's on me."  I hope that prophetic vision doesn't come to pass.  But I tell you, I couldn't help but see it.

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I'll be honest, Yoshi.  After watching that first preseason game, an image came unbidden, by crystal clear to me:  casting forward 5 months to the end of the season, where we win only 6 games and finish dead last in passing defense, and Ballard starting his press conference with "I know things didn't go well in the secondary, and that's on me."  I hope that prophetic vision doesn't come to pass.  But I tell you, I couldn't help but see it.

Yep. That's what I'm afraid of too. We'll have a top 10-15 offense with Richardson, and the secondary will sink us because we are allowing around 30 points a game. I just don't like or trust Ballard anymore. He doesn't seem to care. He would rather be contrarian from the majority to prove his way works, and he knows he has job security so he can take that risk. I wish I could have fun like in Baseball, Basketball, and Hockey where my teams have success, but it seems like work to support this team.

 

This is why I play fantasy football (both daily and yearly) and now bestballs for last few years. I have to have some investment in sports besides rooting for the Colts as we are a mediocre team that can't make the next step into the playoff and compete for a SB.