Why is Ballard not improving his Secondary?

[Yoshinator]

Just now, TheNewGuy said:

Perhaps a strongly worded letter to him may sway his stance?

Maybe a petition to fire him may sway Irsay to force Ballard to sway his stance? lol.

[NewColtsFan]

17 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with him on Brents. But my feeling is, we don't need him to be an all-pro or even probowler. We just need consistent production and health. My problem with the secondary isn't necessarily in the starters, who i think are very young, have shown improvements, and ideally will continue to (especially with Latu living in the backfield)... My problem is with the depth of a unit that will have injuries and has the track record to almost prove that it will happen. Blackmon, Brents, Flowers... these guys have not shown the ability to be healthy yet. Maybe we'll get lucky with the secondaries health, but I wouldn't bank on it. I'm ok with letting the core group improve together over this season. I'm not ok with the depth behind them. 

There's still plenty of time for Ballard and Steichen to acquire more talent.  Today is the 15th of August.  There will be many moves made between now and roughly Sept 1.   Perhaps beyond.   If Steichen wants to make a move I think Ballard has demonstrated that he tries to give his HC what he wants.   I continue to preach patience. 

[TheNewGuy]

1 minute ago, Yoshinator said:

Maybe a petition to fire him may sway Irsay to force Ballard to sway his stance? lol.

That may be something you can work on as well.

[NewColtsFan]

18 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

I don’t agree that Brents our best CB, that’s Kenny.   But I do agree with him that Brents has a lot to prove, starting with staying healthy.  
 

Slower CBs have excelled in the league, like Sherman.  I think that’s Brent’s ceiling and if he can get there, he’d also be an all pro.  But for now, I’d take a steady, smart CB. 
 

What’s worrisome is that we’re really thin in that room.  Even worse in the safety room.  

I think the moves are coming.  We’re only halfway thru the month.   With the relatively new cut down rules I think the Colts moves (multiple) are still to come in the next two weeks or so.  Ballard will try to give Steichen what he wants.  

[tfunky14]

26 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Was going to order Youtube NFL Sunday Ticket for the first time, but now I have no interest in doing so. Apparently, Ballard has no interest in improving the secondary. Plenty of opportunities after the draft as the secondary positions were the strongest groups left in FA. Going to be a harder schedule now where any decent QB will shred us for 30+ points.

 

If Ballard doesn't care, why should I?

Who said he doesn't?  Please share if so....You draft collage players to build upon, not sign old washed up FA.   Start believing in the process or pick another team.  

[John Hammonds]

53 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You might be right on Brents.  But you don’t know.  You’re literally guessing.  So why would you write off a guys career like you’ve seen enough to know.  

You're absolutely right.  I'm projecting an entire career off of only what someone showed just in their rookie year.  And that's not really fair to him.  It's still my opinion, based on what I've seen, that he's going to be "good, but not great".  But, yeah, he could very well exceed my expectations.  Imagine if we did that to every draft pick -- make an instant assessment based only on their rookie year, and plan/change our roster according to that?

[ColtStrong2013]

41 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

There's still plenty of time for Ballard and Steichen to acquire more talent.  Today is the 15th of August.  There will be many moves made between now and roughly Sept 1.   Perhaps beyond.   If Steichen wants to make a move I think Ballard has demonstrated that he tries to give his HC what he wants.   I continue to preach patience. 

I can’t help but think Steichen is content with where the offense is currently. A lot of opportunity/growth.

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I can’t help but think Steichen is content with where the offense is currently. A lot of opportunity/growth.

Yes, agreed.   

But if he think his secondary is poor I would think he’d be just as interested.   Same for any position.  Ultimately it all impacts his job, his record,  the team’s success.  Just trying to make sure I follow your thinking.   Sorry if I misunderstood. 

[Boss7894]

1 hour ago, Yoshinator said:

Was going to order Youtube NFL Sunday Ticket for the first time, but now I have no interest in doing so. Apparently, Ballard has no interest in improving the secondary. Plenty of opportunities after the draft as the secondary positions were the strongest groups left in FA. Going to be a harder schedule now where any decent QB will shred us for 30+ points.

 

If Ballard doesn't care, why should I?

Football season sadness 😂

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I haven’t been very excited for the season this year. Because I have a bad feeling what is going to happen with the secondary.  My biggest concern is injuries because they will happen.

[Smonroe]

42 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I haven’t been very excited for the season this year. Because I have a bad feeling what is going to happen with the secondary.  My biggest concern is injuries because they will happen.

I’m excited to see if the offense can be as good as we hope.  I’m excited to see the Dline go after the QBs.  

 

But, like you, if the secondary falters consistently, I’ll be pretty upset with Ballard’s Laissez faire approach.

 

Hopefully we’re jumping the gun and not being patient enough to trust what they’re seeing.  But the Pryor/Pinter experiment makes me worry about his stubbornness.

[John Waylon]

Honestly, I’m not as exasperated as many are over this, mainly because I was exasperated by this same % in years prior already. I’ve been pre-exasperated by Ballard and his shaky at best day 2 drafting.

 

We traded up to get Cross. We invested in him. “He’d be a second round pick or better in next year’s draft” they said. I don’t fault them for making sure there’s absolutely nothing to gain from that investment before throwing in the towel. 
 

But I do fault them for blowing it with, yet another, day 2 pick. Even if these day 2 picks aren’t turning into starters they should at least be turning into solid depth options. 
 

The best thing we can say about this whole thing is “at least it’s not Banogu bad” and that’s…

 

Well it’s horrifying. 

[CR91]

Ok I personally think this whole secondary issue is being completely overblown. Safety is a concern sure, but the way I see it you need to just have Blackmon play FS. We need to stop forcing Cross at FS because it's not working. Put him at SS and let him use his best skillset which is attacking at the LOS. He doesn't have the instincts to play in space so stop trying to force the situation. 

 

As for CB, while Jones seems to be getting picked on, I haven't heard anything about Brents getting beat either in TC or in joint practice. If he was, then I would be concerned seeing how Brents is our top outside corner. 

[Smonroe]

2 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Honestly, I’m not as exasperated as many are over this, mainly because I was exasperated by this same % in years prior already. I’ve been pre-exasperated by Ballard and his shaky at best day 2 drafting.

 

We traded up to get Cross. We invested in him. “He’d be a second round pick or better in next year’s draft” they said. I don’t fault them for making sure there’s absolutely nothing to gain from that investment before throwing in the towel. 
 

But I do fault them for blowing it with, yet another, day 2 pick. Even if these day 2 picks aren’t turning into starters they should at least be turning into solid depth options. 
 

The best thing we can say about this whole thing is “at least it’s not Banogu bad” and that’s…

 

Well it’s horrifying. 

I’m confused. You don’t think Brent’s and Downs were good picks?  Or Bernie, Woods and Cross?  AD and Goncalves?  That’s 3 or 4 starters and needed backups.  I’d say it’s very good to excellent drafting.  
 

Or are you just not happy with the positions?

[John Waylon]

6 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

I’m confused. You don’t think Brent’s and Downs were good picks?  Or Bernie, Woods and Cross?  AD and Goncalves?  That’s 3 or 4 starters and needed backups.  I’d say it’s very good to excellent drafting.  
 

Or are you just not happy with the positions?

It’s feast or famine with Ballard. 
 

And this is a result of the famine. 
 

That everyone knew was coming. 
 

Again. 
 

Again!
 

How many times are we going to do this with him? How many other GMs in the league are this stubborn about admitting a whiff and doing something about it? 
 

Maybe the next time will be more fun, who knows? Looks like TE is up on deck to be the next group we do it with. 
 

Rinse and repeat. 

[Smonroe]

10 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

It’s feast or famine with Ballard. 
 

And this is a result of the famine. 
 

That everyone knew was coming. 
 

Again. 
 

Again!
 

How many times are we going to do this with him? How many other GMs in the league are this stubborn about admitting a whiff and doing something about it? 
 

Maybe the next time will be more fun, who knows? Looks like TE is up on deck to be the next group we do it with. 
 

Rinse and repeat. 

Still confused.  Agree that Cross may not work out, but he’s the starter so far.  Which of those others is a failed pick?

 

IMHO, the worst thing Ballard has done was to not draft a QB asap when Luck retired.  And I get his logic there.  
 

Personally I think he’s a B+ GM.  But obviously his record doesn’t show that so I may be a homer there.  

[hoosierhawk]

3 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with him on Brents. But my feeling is, we don't need him to be an all-pro or even probowler. We just need consistent production and health. My problem with the secondary isn't necessarily in the starters, who i think are very young, have shown improvements, and ideally will continue to (especially with Latu living in the backfield)... My problem is with the depth of a unit that will have injuries and has the track record to almost prove that it will happen. Blackmon, Brents, Flowers... these guys have not shown the ability to be healthy yet. Maybe we'll get lucky with the secondaries health, but I wouldn't bank on it. I'm ok with letting the core group improve together over this season. I'm not ok with the depth behind them. 

Agree with you on depth but when cuts come after training camp there will be a plethora of secondary depth. I do expect CB to pick up a starting caliber of safety help prior. Time will tell.

[hoosierhawk]

3 hours ago, Yoshinator said:

Was going to order Youtube NFL Sunday Ticket for the first time, but now I have no interest in doing so. Apparently, Ballard has no interest in improving the secondary. Plenty of opportunities after the draft as the secondary positions were the strongest groups left in FA. Going to be a harder schedule now where any decent QB will shred us for 30+ points.

 

If Ballard doesn't care, why should I?

Wow!!!

[hoosierhawk]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

I’m confused. You don’t think Brent’s and Downs were good picks?  Or Bernie, Woods and Cross?  AD and Goncalves?  That’s 3 or 4 starters and needed backups.  I’d say it’s very good to excellent drafting.  
 

Or are you just not happy with the positions?

You can  add Pittman, Leonard, Smith, Dayo, Pierce, Raiman and Lewis to day 2 picks. I may have missed a few.

Mitchell has some potential, ya think?  My goodness almost forgot Taylor. I'd say day 2 draft has been pretty good to us.

 

[Patrick Miller]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I haven’t been very excited for the season this year. Because I have a bad feeling what is going to happen with the secondary.  My biggest concern is injuries because they will happen.

Same

[Goatface Killah]

42 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Wow!!!

He does this every single year lol

 

It wouldnt be a football season wothout it honestly.

[krunk]

Naw dawg I trust Ballard. I know he's not thumbing his nose up at his coaches. He's doing this with agreement from his staff. I'm going to let them finish rolling out their plan.

[Dingus McGirt]

2 hours ago, Boss7894 said:

Football season sadness 😂

More like NFL Preseason pessimism compounded by a grandstanding affliction.

[throwing BBZ]

8 minutes ago, krunk said:

Naw dawg I trust Ballard. I know he's not thumbing his nose up at his coaches. He's doing this with agreement from his staff. I'm going to let them finish rolling out their plan.

 

 We are set-up to being a offensive juggernaut in 2025 and the years to come. Darn good this season.

 And just 2-3 pieces away from a good enough D. We let these DB's and LB's show us what they got, then go after what we need for the D next off season. The players may well be on the roster Now.

 It isn't complicated at all, just logical.

[Smonroe]

10 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 We are set-up to being a offensive juggernaut in 2025 and the years to come. Darn good this season.

 And just 2-3 pieces away from a good enough D. We let these DB's and LB's show us what they got, then go after what we need for the D next off season. The players may well be on the roster Now.

 It isn't complicated at all, just logical.

It all comes down to the O Line.  If they’re as good as last season, the offense could be top 5.   If they regress it doesn’t matter how good the skill players are, and the risk of an AR injury increases.  
 

Plus, if they’re good and this is a run first, ball control offense, the D only has to be good enough.  Just can’t afford to give up big plays.  
 

Hence why Gus plays a soft zone.  He’s compensating for the lack of speed, talent and experience in the D backfield. 

 

Like you said, not complicated, just logical.  

[ColtStrong2013]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Yes, agreed.   

But if he think his secondary is poor I would think he’d be just as interested.   Same for any position.  Ultimately it all impacts his job, his record,  the team’s success.  Just trying to make sure I follow your thinking.   Sorry if I misunderstood. 

 

It depends on what Ballard's convinced him of. If Steichen thinks he can elevate an offense that scored a lot of points last year, then he might not see throwing money at the secondary/continuing to focus on development as a huge priority. He could easily agree that sticking to the course is the best strategy longterm. He may be confident that they can get leads, put pressure on quarterbacks with the strength of the front on defense and it will take pressure off the secondary. 

[shasta519]

4 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with him on Brents. But my feeling is, we don't need him to be an all-pro or even probowler. We just need consistent production and health. My problem with the secondary isn't necessarily in the starters, who i think are very young, have shown improvements, and ideally will continue to (especially with Latu living in the backfield)... My problem is with the depth of a unit that will have injuries and has the track record to almost prove that it will happen. Blackmon, Brents, Flowers... these guys have not shown the ability to be healthy yet. Maybe we'll get lucky with the secondaries health, but I wouldn't bank on it. I'm ok with letting the core group improve together over this season. I'm not ok with the depth behind them. 

 

Right. Before we even talk about his ceiling, Brents has to stay healthy and be a consistent player. I am not saying he can't do it, but not sure how anyone can be sure he can after last year, where he spent half the season hurt and the last time we saw him was chasing Nico Collins all over the field.

And that's the CB1 for the foreseeable future. 

 

The CB2 is a R7 pick who runs 4.6. Even in this type of defense, that is going to eventually be a liability. Behind him is a 27 year-old former UDFA coming off an Achilles injury, who has played a handful of games.

 

Since I am on one right now...that leaves Kenny Moore as the stalwart of the CB room. But it's like people forget how bad he was from the end of 2021 through 2022 (most of that spent in this defense). He will now be 29 and I won't be surprised if we see some real regression once they play better QBs and offenses (unlike last year). Established QBs have targeted him in the past. And I think we will see a lot of that this year, especially with quicker slot WRs. 

 

But between the injury history, inconsistent play and unproveness, there are just a lot of questions.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Smonroe said:

I’m confused. You don’t think Brent’s and Downs were good picks?  Or Bernie, Woods and Cross?  AD and Goncalves?  That’s 3 or 4 starters and needed backups.  I’d say it’s very good to excellent drafting.  
 

Or are you just not happy with the positions?

 

TBF, the only ones we know about are Raimann and Downs.

 

Colts had (6) Day 2 picks in the 2022 and 2023 drafts, and at this point, those are the only two I would consider really good picks. Woods, Cross, Pierce and Brents haven't looked like good, let alone, excellent picks imo.

 

Far too early to say anything on 2024 though. I like AD. But I think the expectations are really high. 

 

[CR91]

Simmons to the Falcons. That puts a nail in the coffin for any moves at safety for now

[Indyfan4life]

Annnnnnnd Atlanta. 

[Hawkeyecolt]

2 hours ago, CR91 said:

Ok I personally think this whole secondary issue is being completely overblown. Safety is a concern sure, but the way I see it you need to just have Blackmon play FS. We need to stop forcing Cross at FS because it's not working. Put him at SS and let him use his best skillset which is attacking at the LOS. He doesn't have the instincts to play in space so stop trying to force the situation. 

 

As for CB, while Jones seems to be getting picked on, I haven't heard anything about Brents getting beat either in TC or in joint practice. If he was, then I would be concerned seeing how Brents is our top outside corner. 

Except Bradley said that Cross has looked better at free safety.  Jake Arthur also said that Brents did not have a good day yesterday in the joint practice.  Let’s hope we can chalk it up to being his first day back from being out. 

[John Hammonds]

NFL just announced Falcons signed Justin Simmons.

[CR91]

1 minute ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

Except Bradley said that Cross has looked better at free safety.  Jake Arthur also said that Brents did not have a good day yesterday in the joint practice.  Let’s hope we can chalk it up to being his first day back from being out. 

 

That's one practice and apparently he's still dealing with a shoulder injury

[shasta519]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Simmons to the Falcons. That puts a nail in the coffin for any moves at safety for now

 

Well, we can put a plug in that...finally.

 

I think Simmons would have been a big help, but I never saw him as some silver bullet for the secondary. That's going to have to happen through development...or next offseason.

[Indyfan4life]

We couldn’t do 1yr/8 million? Jesus Christ Ballard. 

[BeanDiasucci]

 

PFF NFL General Manager Rankings - 2023:

 

Tier 2: Clear vision, mostly sound process, sometimes focused on “windows”

 

Chris Ballard, Indianapolis Colts (since 2017)

The Colts' roster in recent years has resembled a Whac-A-Mole board, where one glaring deficiency has been able to tank what is otherwise a team with talented trench units. For 2023, the secondary is devoid of building-block talent outside of second-round rookie Julius Brents, but the offensive line is seemingly back playing to its talent level after atrophying in 2022. With a lot of positives on display from rookie quarterback Anthony Richardson, who we won’t see again until 2024 due to injury, there’s reason to believe maybe Ballard can build a true contender for the first time since the end of the Andrew Luck era.

Ballard’s best move in a while appears to be the hiring of head coach Shane Steichen, and there should be optimism going forward. Ballard may need to supplement this roster with more free-agent talent than he’s been willing to target in the past, but that’s how you take advantage of the rookie contract window — in moderation, of course.

 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

6 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

We couldn’t do 1yr/8 million? Jesus Christ Ballard. 

 

No... we couldn't. Because he very obviously didn't want to be here. 

We could have done a lot better than what he signed for. That phone call might have been very brief, and not on our part. Some on here refuse to acknowledge that as a possibility.

[PackersNation]

3 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I haven’t been very excited for the season this year. Because I have a bad feeling what is going to happen with the secondary.  My biggest concern is injuries because they will happen.

Get excited. Other teams have injuries too. It all evens out. The Colts will be fine.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Last year he said injuries was the downfall of the secondary. So he decided to put us in the same and kind of weaker position this year as last year. Absolutely no depth at CB or safety. I could live with cross as a starter as long as he went and got an insurance policy in case it didn’t work. But he didn’t.  
 

If Brent’s or Blackmon get injured we are in really deep trouble.

[PackersNation]

Ok, no more about Simmons here. Thank god.