The Reason Colts Drafted 2 Tight Ends

[HtownColt]

Here is your explanation in why we drafted two tight ends..first off Bruce Arians loves 2 tight ends

“The offense calls for two tight ends who are dynamic and can do different things,” said Allen, sharing what he learned in a phone conversation with offensive coordinator Bruce Arians.

"Kind of setting the table for him (Arians) and Andrew. He (Arians) an innovative guy and he's used those two positions (tight end and fullback) so well in the past," Grigson said. "To say that we won't have a fullback, I think is premature. But it's nice to say we have two legit tight ends on our roster."

Look for Arians to make liberal use of the two-tight end alignment as he did in Pittsburgh. Defenses will have to decide whether to pay attention in coverage to Allen or Fleener.

You have to know the philosophy of your Offensive coordinator to fully understand the picks

[spoonfish]

What about Brody Eldridge and Dominque Jones?

[HtownColt]

What about Brody Eldridge and Dominque Jones?

they better take up ultimate frisbee or something

[tfunky14]

Easy,,,,see New England and its two TE...pretty easy to see, no explanation needed.

[ruksak]

Look for Arians to make liberal use of the two-tight end alignment as he did in Pittsburgh. Defenses will have to decide whether to pay attention in coverage to Allen or Fleener.

The beauty of this is the presence of Wayne and Collie/Avery/Hilton. Opposing safeties have a choice, and it's an unpleasant proposition to say the least. Leave Allen/Fleener single covered by a linebacker, or, drop in and help, leaving the outside routes exposed to single coverage. Think of Fleener running that deep seam route flanked by a speedster like Avery or Hilton, or the savvy vet Wayne grabbing the post over top of the safety.

[BProland85]

I guess I dont remember the Steelers using a 2 TE set. I only remember Heath Miller making plays for them. Is his 2 TE set like what the Pats have where both are used as receivers causing matchup problems for defenses?

[Ohio Colt]

i absolutely love it

[HtownColt]

wouldnt say its exactly like the patriots because well its the Steelers they run the ball for the most part until Arians let Big Ben go pass happy but they used Heath Miller and David Johnson(better at blocking than catching) and wes Saunders

"Miller said the Steelers use him and Johnson almost all the time on first and second down"

i know yall like sources to validate statements lol so here http://steelersmobile.com/wp/15065

[21isSuperman]

I didn't like either pick at first, but I'm getting used to them. I still think there were better prospects available.

[Farns01]

We are returning to old school. When Peyton got here we used a lot of 2 TE sets with Dilger and Pollard. We only had 1 good WR and that was Marvin. When we got Reggie and brought in Stokley we migrrated away from the 2 TE sets.

[HtownColt]

might have been but you have to get players that fit the philosophies of your offensive,defensive, and special team coordinators and thats exactly what grigson is doing

[chad72]

Rookie year help for recently successful rookie QBs:

Rod Chudzinzki for Cam Newton - signed Jeremy Shockey and Greg Olsen.

Mike Smith for Matt Ryan - signed Michael Turner for running game, and traded for Tony Gonzalez

Peyton Manning - had both Ken Dilger and Marcus Pollard on roster

Luck - had none but Eldridge, hence the signings.

When protections break down, TEs are safety blankets, so running game and TEs are best help for rookie QB. Historically, it says so. Now, Grigson is probably happy about the O-line bodies we have, it seems like. RB, there is enough talent drafted to keep us afloat till we see how they operate in the new offense. So, I see a late round OG and RB/WR added plus other pieces on D added.

[Smonroe]

The beauty of this is the presence of Wayne and Collie/Avery/Hilton. Opposing safeties have a choice, and it's an unpleasant proposition to say the least. Leave Allen/Fleener single covered by a linebacker, or, drop in and help, leaving the outside routes exposed to single coverage. Think of Fleener running that deep seam route flanked by a speedster like Avery or Hilton, or the savvy vet Wayne grabbing the post over top of the safety.

Yep. This works as long as we don't have any revolving doors playing O-line and Andy has time to get the ball out. (A weak Link comes to mind.)

[bavanlan]

Easy,,,,see New England and its two TE...pretty easy to see, no explanation needed.

I know this is the running line, but at the risk of making it into a 'who was first' contest, we were running a balanced dual TE set with Pollard and Clark in 2003 and in particular 2004 when Manning set the TD record. I'd venture a guess that we were 2WR 2TE more often than 3WR 1TE with Stokley.

[Jindrake]

Luck in college used a lot of 2 and 3 te formations as well I am glad to see that it looks they are setting him up to some sucess

[inviolable]

At first I hated the pick but I think it will wind up working out really well, it's always nice to have a security blanket

[Mcafee420]

i like the picks so far. Yes we havent addressed the need at CB or NT BUT we still have 6 picks I believe

[Gregore]

It worked for the Colts in the past. You can't argue with the success of that team (they shall remain nameless in my post) on the East Coast that used 2 TE's to get to the super bowl last year, only to be beaten by Peyton's little brother....again! Luck is also used to working with 2 or 3 TE sets. Less of a learning curve for him and something he's familiar with to help him make a smoother transition to the pros. Plus, as others have stated above, the new coordinator likes to roll like this.

On a side note, I'm pretty happy with the colt's draft. They couldn't get everything fixed, but giving Luck plenty of weapons to get him off to a great start was awesome. They can always work more on the D next year.

This year's draft could have been a little better had we not had to split first picks every other round with the Rams. Another reason we needed a new coaching staff IMHO! It was the wrong time to grow some pride/put it all together and win one to many games last season. That showed extremely bad judgement and foresight IMHO. Glad the Colts went in and cleaned house.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

The beauty of this is the presence of Wayne and Collie/Avery/Hilton. Opposing safeties have a choice, and it's an unpleasant proposition to say the least. Leave Allen/Fleener single covered by a linebacker, or, drop in and help, leaving the outside routes exposed to single coverage. Think of Fleener running that deep seam route flanked by a speedster like Avery or Hilton, or the savvy vet Wayne grabbing the post over top of the safety.

^^^^^^That^^^^^^

Empty backfield, roll out Luck and put Collie in the slot and..........opposing Defensive Coordinators will be ordering milk-of-magnesia by the case.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I didn't like either pick at first, but I'm getting used to them. I still think there were better prospects available.

Honestly, I did not think Fleener was worth that kind of pick but if Grigson had him that high on the board then I default to him. And then when I heard we grabbed another one, I was like they're going NE style. The top 2 TEs in the draft class? I think this is going to be fun to watch...and quite possibly, a nightmare to resign years down the road.

[rittdk01]

Colts got the best two TE's because this was Lucks system in college. building around the QB how it should be done. Also trying to style the offense after the Patriots with Hernandez and gronk.

[chad72]

Let us not forget that the 2nd TE was not by design, it just took next priority once the CB they wanted was gone. They would have gotten another 2nd TE later, not named Allen, if they had gotten their CB. So, maybe it is a blessing in disguise that it turned out that way, that is what I am hoping for.

Got to keep Luck upright. Hopefully, the O-line bodies brought in can pass protect a rookie who may or may not have Peyton's quick release while encountering NFL speed. The speed of the game is the biggest adjustment for most players, especially QB, at the next level. So, expecting Luck to get rid of the ball in less than 3 seconds may or may not happen all the time, IMO.

Luck, if he does get out of the pocket should know how to slide down quickly since out of the pocket, he is fair game to defensive players. Several things to look for in Luck's progression as a QB. I am excited, yet at the same time nervous.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

We are returning to old school. When Peyton got here we used a lot of 2 TE sets with Dilger and Pollard. We only had 1 good WR and that was Marvin. When we got Reggie and brought in Stokley we migrrated away from the 2 TE sets.

Good post. I think you're right. The rub is, now we have an even better slot than Stokley. And if the line Grigs has assembled work well together, this could be very exciting stuff.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Rookie year help for recently successful rookie QBs:

Rod Chudzinzki for Cam Newton - signed Jeremy Shockey and Greg Olsen.

Mike Smith for Matt Ryan - signed Michael Turner for running game, and traded for Tony Gonzalez

Peyton Manning - had both Ken Dilger and Marcus Pollard on roster

Luck - had none but Eldridge, hence the signings.

When protections break down, TEs are safety blankets, so running game and TEs are best help for rookie QB.

Okay. I can see that.

[GoColts8818]

What about Brody Eldridge and Dominque Jones?

That would be the other reason we drafted two tightends lol.

[CR91]

The beauty of this is the presence of Wayne and Collie/Avery/Hilton. Opposing safeties have a choice, and it's an unpleasant proposition to say the least. Leave Allen/Fleener single covered by a linebacker, or, drop in and help, leaving the outside routes exposed to single coverage. Think of Fleener running that deep seam route flanked by a speedster like Avery or Hilton, or the savvy vet Wayne grabbing the post over top of the safety.

im getting dizzy just read it. defensives are gonna have a lot of trouble

[oldunclemark]

Easy,,,,see New England and its two TE...pretty easy to see, no explanation needed.

'nuff said

[smittywerb]

It's coming together now. With Wayne, Hilton, Collie, and our other WR's. That will hopefully open up space all over the field. Fleener will be running deep (8+ yds) while Allen will be that target that sits under the coverage or right at the the first down line. Andrew will have targets all over the field. Once again, the staff is trying to make Andrew's transition as easy as possible.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I've seen various people in various threads comment about Arians use of the 2 TE system in Pittsburgh.

He rarely ran in it Pittsburgh over the last 5 years when he was OC. The Colts have had a decrease in its use as well over the past few years. After Clark was hurt and Tamme stepped in and was Fort Worth(not quite Dallas but close), i was hoping for a return to the 12 set last year with both 44&84 on the field at the same time. So much for that.

I would say at best, it might be utilized 35-40 % of the time. That might be a high estimate.

Arians had a much greater fondness of the 11(3wr) & 10(4wr) set in Pittsburgh than he did the 12 or 22 set.

[#12]

When protections break down, TEs are safety blankets, so running game and TEs are best help for rookie QB.

And when protections break down, Luck can run - something we're not used to.

If Luck watches any tape on Peyton, I hope he watches how Peyton threw to and dumped off to the RBs. I always thought Peyton was at his best when he was patient and made a concerted effort to get the RBs involved in the passing game.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Tamme stepped in and was Fort Worth (not quite Dallas but close)

LOLOL

[oldunclemark]

I've seen various people in various threads comment about Arians use of the 2 TE system in Pittsburgh.

He rarely ran in it Pittsburgh over the last 5 years when he was OC. The Colts have had a decrease in its use as well over the past few years. After Clark was hurt and Tamme stepped in and was Fort Worth(not quite Dallas but close), i was hoping for a return to the 12 set last year with both 44&84 on the field at the same time. So much for that.

I would say at best, it might be utilized 35-40 % of the time. That might be a high estimate.

Arians had a much greater fondness of the 11(3wr) & 10(4wr) set in Pittsburgh than he did the 12 or 22 set.

But FJC..

Could not Fleener line up as a wide receiver on most downs?

..with Allen as the true tight end....

...Reggie and Collie and Donald Brown as the lone back??

Positions are for us watching....When they break the huddle..what stops Fleener from lining up outside the slot man?

[#12]

I've seen various people in various threads comment about Arians use of the 2 TE system in Pittsburgh.

He rarely ran in it Pittsburgh over the last 5 years when he was OC. The Colts have had a decrease in its use as well over the past few years. After Clark was hurt and Tamme stepped in and was Fort Worth(not quite Dallas but close), i was hoping for a return to the 12 set last year with both 44&84 on the field at the same time. So much for that.

I would say at best, it might be utilized 35-40 % of the time. That might be a high estimate.

Arians had a much greater fondness of the 11(3wr) & 10(4wr) set in Pittsburgh than he did the 12 or 22 set.

But it depends on the personnel you have, right? If you have the TEs to run it, and Luck is coming from a system which utilized multiple TE sets, you probably run it more.

[oldunclemark]

LOLOL

That was clever.......

Next you'll be calling him Larry Hagman (Old Dallas)

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Next you'll be calling him Larry Hagman (Old Dallas)

LOLOL

[FireJimCaldwell]

But it depends on the personnel you have, right? If you have the TEs to run it, and Luck is coming from a system which utilized multiple TE sets, you probably run it more.

It does to a good coach. It didn't last year around here.(but that is well documented).

They aren't running Luck's Stanford system. One could argue that we should have installed the WCO, but that's not the case.

Time will tell on what % of plays will be run out of a 12 or 22 set. I still see a reliance on the 10 or 11

[FireJimCaldwell]

But FJC..

Could not Fleener line up as a wide receiver on most downs?

..with Allen as the true tight end....

...Reggie and Collie and Donald Brown as the lone back??

Positions are for us watching....When they break the huddle..what stops Fleener from lining up outside the slot man?

Fleener lining up in the slot is not a 2 TE set.

There are times there will be 2 tight ends on the field, and the ability for each to split out will be a plus. There could easily be times that the team is in 4 wide with Fleener and Allen on the field, and that isn't a 2 TE set.

A 2 TE set is when they are both in tight on the LOS.

Having the flexibility from being in a 12 formation and shifting out to 4-wide is a great thing. Something you saw a lot here before and what you've seen recently in New England, even though they weren't in a 12 set very often. They usually had one or both flexed out to the slot.

[oldunclemark]

Fleener lining up in the slot is not a 2 TE set.

There are times there will be 2 tight ends on the field, and the ability for each to split out will be a plus. There could easily be times that the team is in 4 wide with Fleener and Allen on the field, and that isn't a 2 TE set.

A 2 TE set is when they are both in tight on the LOS.

Having the flexibility from being in a 12 formation and shifting out to 4-wide is a great thing. Something you saw a lot here before and what you've seen recently in New England, even though they weren't in a 12 set very often. They usually had one or both flexed out to the slot.

I hear you...its terminology...

Theoretically..near the goal line..maybe we could line up Allen and Brody Eldridge in a 2-TE set in front of an I-formation duo

with Fleener set out wide as a jump ball wide receiver.....

[FireJimCaldwell]

I hear you...its terminology...

Theoretically..near the goal line..maybe we could line up Allen and Brody Eldridge in a 2-TE set in front of an I-formation duo

with Fleener set out wide as a jump ball wide receiver.....

That could/should/will easily be one of the goal line packages. Just as the same formation with Fleener in as wing right off the LOS and tight to one of the other TE's should/will be one.

[dgambill]

I've seen various people in various threads comment about Arians use of the 2 TE system in Pittsburgh.

He rarely ran in it Pittsburgh over the last 5 years when he was OC. The Colts have had a decrease in its use as well over the past few years. After Clark was hurt and Tamme stepped in and was Fort Worth(not quite Dallas but close), i was hoping for a return to the 12 set last year with both 44&84 on the field at the same time. So much for that.

I would say at best, it might be utilized 35-40 % of the time. That might be a high estimate.

Arians had a much greater fondness of the 11(3wr) & 10(4wr) set in Pittsburgh than he did the 12 or 22 set.

The main thing is having the players to run it. Just because he didn't run it as much (mostly did for running the ball using a TE to play FB) doesn't mean he didn't like it or want to. You put your best players on the field. Steelers had issues with their running backs (especially last year) and offensive line. Best way to deal with that is to run less...put your qb in the gun and spread the team out with your advantage of several young speedy wr. What makes Arians so good is he takes what you have and makes you successful. He has the ability to use multiple sets and all were productive. Arians is a great play designer and we will benefit from him.