Colts offseason discussion / Ballard Grievances (merge)

[w87r]

How mad is everyone gonna be, when it is announced, we gave him an offer sheet and KC refused to match, so they get #15 and next year's first? 

 

[BProland85]

6 minutes ago, w87r said:

How mad is everyone gonna be, when it is announced, we gave him an offer sheet and KC refused to match, so they get #15 and next year's first? 

 

With how much Ballard values draft picks, I would be very surprised if that were to happen. 

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He might not last, but there will probably be a couple of really good prospects still on the board at #15 that we didn't anticipate. That's why I'm personally not going to get too attached to any particular draft strategy.

Yes….  Agreed.  
 

Very good prospects if we stay and pick.   And some interesting prospects if the Colts want to trade down a little 1-5 spots or more 6-10 spots and so on.   I like win-win situations and I think the Colts have it. 

[dw49]

52 minutes ago, w87r said:

If any of those top 3 OTs make it to #15, Ballard might have a hard time letting that pass?

 

 

But this is the FA thread. I'll save that 

 

One of 2 things would IMO happen. One would be that Ballard liked a non OT much more than what would be available after trading down and selected that player. The second would be he passes on that OT and trades down. It would be easy to move down as for sure there would be teams below us that needed an OT. Probably would be the best case scenario for this draft as the top 3 WRs will almost certainly be gone. Yeah , it's off topic but I couldn't help it.

[ColtStrong2013]

I think he’s off a bit considering it was just a 2nd round pick that was originally rumored to be sought after. But this is the first I’ve seen of swapping 1sts with them.

 

That would make for an interesting situation, as Ballard would likely trade out of the first into the 2nd somewhere and get another day 2 pick out of it. Preserves the 2nd round and still keeps you in reach of potentially two good players to add. 
 

I doubt very seriously he would do that, as there could be some really good players at 15 that would be better to wait on before trading back. And trading back from 15 to 32 is worth a lot more than just giving our 2nd round pick. But I can certainly see Ballard trading back from 15, and especially if he has given a day 2 pick up for this trade, so it’s interesting to read what the other side is thinking…

[ColtStrong2013]

40 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

I don't mean tap the brakes on acquiring him.   I mean tap the brakes on expectations about his level of production/impact when he comes over to the Colts.....or maybe any other team for that matter.

 

We don't have the team KC does, and the supporting players around Sneed.  Probably not the coaching staff either.  Sneed is bound to come back to earth a little if he comes here.

 

And if the rumor is true that Ballard is stalling on contract, that may in fact be what he is thinking, and his numbers are based upon what he thinks Sneed will do here while Sneed wants to get paid for his production in KC. 

that’s fair. I’ve read a lot of chiefs comments that say that his production is legit and to look at the receivers he covered and held under 100 this year. They credit his and McDuffies coverage for a lot more of Jones success than vice versa, and are hoping he’s back on the tag. His availability has been strong and he’s been a very good zone coverage back. So I think it would be a good fit for him and improve the pass defense, and at least give options of mixing some things up (not that Bradley will, but that was an excuse this year that the players confirmed). 

 

he could come back to earth, or he could elevate his game even more as the focal point. If he’s paired with a 2nd year corner, and it’s true that he was locking wr1’s down, then he would be game planned against. That would give the defense the possibility of shadowing him on the #1 with a safety overtop, and mixing coverages up everywhere else. Just having a guy like in the secondary could give this defensive lines an ability to take another jump in their pressure (which everyone agrees needs to be better/more consistent). It would push teams to throw towards Juju, which could elevate his game even further. That all sounds pretty valuable. IF they are in negotiations, it’s because they know what the plan would be to address other spots with what is remaining/able to be freed up and a general game plan of what a new defense is going to look like. 

[stitches]

I continue not being a fan of trading premier picks for player that at the same time needs to get paid top of the market money unless it's absolutely elite player. And as good as Sneed is, I'm not certain he's quite at that level. At the same time I would feel like a hypocrite for criticizing Ballard for not addressing pass defense and then when he does, not being happy with the move, so I guess depending on the compensation I might have some mixed feelings if it happens...

[throwing BBZ]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

 

I think it’s the weakest group.  Kenny is the only one we’re sure of.  Juju looked decent, but he played about half a season.  

 

Jones did okay, but we can’t continue to say “for a late draft pick”.  Draft position no longer matters, play does.

 

Flowers has started something like 5 games in two years.  He also showed promise.  But we don’t know if teams will expose him like they did Jones once they see his tendencies.  
 

So, yes, I think a veteran CB is a huge need…and safety isn’t that far behind.  

 

 

 If indeed we are the winning bidder with KC, that is proof enough that it's understood by our leadership that CB is a monumental issue. To win at least 2 playoff games and the SB you have to be able to compete against superb QB's and receivers. Today, we have nothing we can count on with our back four. 

 That is why this financial commitment is plum goofy, if we are giving up pick 15. Take Q. Mitchell on the rookie pay scale and have at it. 

[NewColtsFan]

16 hours ago, Superman said:

 

You brought up Partridge. Maybe I misunderstood your reason for bringing him up, but it was not my assertion that he was influencing Ballard's resource allocation. I thought that was the point you were making, but I think we're on the same page there now.

 

About the shovel and the rake, my concern is that we have a $20 gift card at Home Depot, and the shovel costs $20, but you brought me the rake because it was only $16. I can use the rake, but it's not going to replace the shovel, and now I don't have enough left on the gift card to get the shovel. I'm not trying to have it both ways, and I'm not worried about the order of operation. My thinking is that, after committing these resources, we've limited our ability to improve the pass rush.

 

There are different ways to make it work. I just think it would have been better to use those resources on different players at different positions. I also think that's a pretty simple position to take.

I’ll look around….  I might have a gift card for Home Depot to see if we can’t make up the difference.    
 

I see your point….  I’m expecting pass rush either in the first or second round.  WR would be the position we’d take with the other pick.   So I’m hopeful for more shovel.   The rest I hope comes from Partridge.

 

Thanks for engaging so long on this.  Appreciate you staying classy even when we disagree.  

[w87r]

6 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

But this is the first I’ve seen of swapping 1sts with them.

First I seen reported(tweeted).

 

I brought up suggestion in late February. Although my offer seems a little heavy.

 

 

 

[csmopar]

8 hours ago, Zoltan said:

can I get a link to the pass defense rate stat?

Scroll up a few posts above the one you quoted, there’s an article with the stats and links to more 

[csmopar]

7 hours ago, w87r said:

How mad is everyone gonna be, when it is announced, we gave him an offer sheet and KC refused to match, so they get #15 and next year's first? 

 

I’d would say….

 

[ColtStrong2013]

38 minutes ago, w87r said:

First I seen reported(tweeted).

 

I brought up suggestion in late February. Although my offer seems a little heavy.

 

 

 

yeah I totally lied. I apparently have short term memory loss from all the sneed talk. Hell, I even commented to Chloe about it in that thread…. 

[Colt Overseas]

Multiple accounts on Twitter are saying a deal got done over night.

 

Fwiw

 

 

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

Multiple accounts on Twitter are saying a deal got done over night.

 

Fwiw

 

 

Hmmm 2025 2nd ? Or a 3rd?

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

Multiple accounts on Twitter are saying a deal got done over night.

 

Fwiw

 

 

If true, I'm fine with this as long as the compensation in 2025 is a day 3 pick.

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

Multiple accounts on Twitter are saying a deal got done over night.

 

Fwiw

 

 

Hey, you’re not Chloe

[Yoshinator]

Just now, csmopar said:

Hey, you’re not Chloe

Maybe Chloe is overseas right now lol!  

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Maybe Chloe is overseas right now lol!  

Nah, she’s staking out the Chiefs HQ with one of them there spy devices that let you hear through walls

[Yoshinator]

Just now, csmopar said:

Nah, she’s staking out the Chiefs HQ with one of them there spy devices that let you hear through walls

She's been pulling an all-nighter out there waiting for the trade to go through lol. Funny how she wasn't the first one to report the possible trade details this morning.

[w87r]

9 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Hmmm 2025 2nd ? Or a 3rd?

3rd or 4th, Id say.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, w87r said:

3rd or 4th, Id say.

If Destin is right and the wording is "additional pick", I'm going to assume it's a day 3 pick in 2025 until proven otherwise. Hopefully I'm right!  

[w87r]

14 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

Multiple accounts on Twitter are saying a deal got done over night.

 

Fwiw

 

 

Can we say it yet?

 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, w87r said:

Can we say it yet?

 

Destin Adams and A to Z sports are a step up from random twitter people saying it. So I'm guessing there is smoke to the fire and Chloe may be right!

[w87r]

6 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Nah, she’s staking out the Chiefs HQ with one of them there spy devices that let you hear through walls

Just now, Yoshinator said:

Destin Adams and A to Z sports are a step up from random twitter people saying it. So I'm guessing there is smoke to the fire and Chloe may be right!

There has been a lot of smoke for a few days.

[Colt Overseas]

5 minutes ago, w87r said:

Can we say it yet?

 

There is a Chiefs account saying it’s donr too. A lot of smoke.

[w87r]

7 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

She's been pulling an all-nighter out there waiting for the trade to go through lol. Funny how she wasn't the first one to report the possible trade details this morning.

[chad72]

4 minutes ago, w87r said:

There has been a lot of smoke for a few days.

Yeah, the smoke just needs to come out of the chimney  

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Yeah, the smoke just needs to come out of the chimney  

Yep. Before Santa Ballard comes down and gives us the gift of Sneed.

[w87r]

Everyone when they wake up and hear the news. Well, I'm sure not everyone.

 

[IndyEV]

11 minutes ago, w87r said:

There has been a lot of smoke for a few days.

[w87r]

So if that report is true and we are giving up our 3rd and pick next year (likely 3rd or 4th).

 

The that leaves the first 2 rounds open for WR/TE, LB or S.

 

Still hoping to bring in a couple vets back there, but maybe they really like Nubin?

 

Also would love to get Peyton Wilson or Cooper in the 2nd round. Big need.

[Hoose]

38 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

Multiple accounts on Twitter are saying a deal got done over night.

 

Fwiw

 

 

This makes far more sense than the rumors about pick 15. 

[w87r]

Just now, Hoose said:

This makes far more sense than the rumors about pick 15. 

Yeah but a pick swap #15 to #32 wasn't too bad on the value chart. Mid 2nd round value.

And kept the same amount of picks as before the trade.

 

This trade offer reported probably gives out about late 2nd round value.

 

 

Never really though we would give 1st or 2nd unless it was swapping picks in those rounds.

 

I think 3rd and 2025 pick always made the most sense.

[TrueBlue4ever]

3 minutes ago, Hoose said:

This makes far more sense than the rumors about pick 15. 

Let’s get it done today!! I will be staying in touch here all day. 

[stitches]

22 minutes ago, w87r said:

So if that report is true and we are giving up our 3rd and pick next year (likely 3rd or 4th).

 

The that leaves the first 2 rounds open for WR/TE, LB or S.

 

Still hoping to bring in a couple vets back there, but maybe they really like Nubin?

 

Also would love to get Peyton Wilson or Cooper in the 2nd round. Big need.

It's probably conditional of some sort, 3d that becomes a 2nd or 4th that becomes a third if certain condition is met.

[dw49]

48 minutes ago, w87r said:

3rd or 4th, Id say.

 

My guess earlier was 2024 3rd and 2025 4th and we get 2024 5th back.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Glad that seems to be over.

[MFT5]

25 minutes ago, w87r said:

Yeah but a pick swap #15 to #32 wasn't too bad on the value chart. Mid 2nd round value.

And kept the same amount of picks as before the trade.

 

This trade offer reported probably gives out about late 2nd round value.

 

 

Never really though we would give 1st or 2nd unless it was swapping picks in those rounds.

 

I think 3rd and 2025 pick always made the most sense.

 

ppl saying colts giving up a 1st was nonsense i think a pick swap wouldn’t have been worth it either tbh … pick 15 is a game changer on a young team (that’s too valuable to give up 2 a DC that’s gonna make him play off coverage 50% of the time lol)

[Goatface Killah]

So......it looks like we might end up with the best corner in free agency without giving up one of our premium picks this year.  

 

Our secondary would have some serious potential with Brents having a full off season and Kenny coming back. 

 

This is a big addition, if true. 

 

Ballard could also recoup that 3rd on draft day pretty easily by moving down from 15. Maybe even pick up an extra 2 instead 

 

After this, he should create some more space and bring in Justin Simmons.