The CB Spec (on THIS defense)

[MikeCurtis]

There are some excellent press corners in this draft

 

On teams that use a press man approach they leave the CB on an island.... this player HAS to be able to stay on their man

 

Its an EXTREMELY demanding role, and few can do it..... thats why you see the good ones make great $$$$

 

This coverage allows more often blitzes from LBs / S (Not much of that on the Colts)

 

 

The Colts are a mostly a ZONE team, The cornerbacks, on most plays need to keep the action in front of them

 

The CBs on THIS defense, can be a bit bigger and slower than the man to man CBs. Ability to tackle is a key role

 

The zone coverage has much value. Especially when you can get pressure on the QB with our front four (WHICH WE DONT)

 

If there is true pressure, its VERY tough for a QB to pass against, as the dbs are facing them and can break on the ball

 

A round 1 pick on a CB that is a press CB would seem to be a tremendous waste (ON THE COLTS)

 

There are some really good zone CBs that can be picked later - TJ Tampa others

 

As long as we employ the current DC, and dont change up the base defense, we will see more of what we have today

 

A Zone approach  is what we do

(I dont agree with our bland defense, but it is what it is)

 

If we want to use more zone defense, we need to invest in pass rush and FS

[cdgacoltsfan]

22 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

There are some excellent press corners in this draft

 

On teams that use a press man approach they leave the CB on an island.... this player HAS to be able to stay on their man

 

Its an EXTREMELY demanding role, and few can do it..... thats why you see the good ones make great $$$$

 

This coverage allows more often blitzes from LBs / S (Not much of that on the Colts)

 

 

The Colts are a mostly a ZONE team, The cornerbacks, on most plays need to keep the action in front of them

 

The CBs on THIS defense, can be a bit bigger and slower than the man to man CBs. Ability to tackle is a key role

 

The zone coverage has much value. Especially when you can get pressure on the QB with our front four (WHICH WE DONT)

 

If there is true pressure, its VERY tough for a QB to pass against, as the dbs are facing them and can break on the ball

 

A round 1 pick on a CB that is a press CB would seem to be a tremendous waste (ON THE COLTS)

 

There are some really good zone CBs that can be picked later - TJ Tampa others

 

As long as we employ the current DC, and dont change up the base defense, we will see more of what we have today

 

A Zone approach  is what we do

(I dont agree with our bland defense, but it is what it is)

 

If we want to use more zone defense, we need to invest in pass rush and FS

I'm hoping Ballard can somehow snag ( if they hit fee agency) Sneed or Jones in free agency and draft a WR or Bowers ( if he's there) with #15.

[smittywerb]

I’m there with you.  I don’t think our problem are our defensive backs, even though I think we should definitely upgrade the FS position with McKinney if possible.  I think we need to improve on getting pressure also.  

 

people will point to our sacks but where the true story lies is our pressure rate.  According to statmuse (https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/which-nfl-teams-pressure-the-qb-the-most-this-season), our pressure rate was 85.0.  Which isn’t bad, but isn’t good also.  But when you think about the scheme, it’s actually worse because we depend on our front 4 and don’t blitz, meaning our defensive backs are actually solid.  The sack number with the low pressure means our defensive backs are actually solid.  
 

and then when you look at our pass rush win rate, we have Ebukam and Buckner who perform well (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct).  Which once again leads me to believe our pass rush needs an upgrade, specifically kwitty.  Grover is a run stopping machine.  I feel if we could get a dog to replace kwitty, that would free up the others. 

 

We could use an upgrade at corner but on my personal list of priority, corner is towards the middle.  If we could improve on our pass rush and get a safety that could ball hawk, i think we’d see this defense become really good.  
 

But above all, regardless of what we do, Gus needs to get more aggressive. 

[csmopar]

36 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

I’m there with you.  I don’t think our problem are our defensive backs, even though I think we should definitely upgrade the FS position with McKinney if possible.  I think we need to improve on getting pressure also.  

 

people will point to our sacks but where the true story lies is our pressure rate.  According to statmuse (https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/which-nfl-teams-pressure-the-qb-the-most-this-season), our pressure rate was 85.0.  Which isn’t bad, but isn’t good also.  But when you think about the scheme, it’s actually worse because we depend on our front 4 and don’t blitz, meaning our defensive backs are actually solid.  The sack number with the low pressure means our defensive backs are actually solid.  
 

and then when you look at our pass rush win rate, we have Ebukam and Buckner who perform well (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct).  Which once again leads me to believe our pass rush needs an upgrade, specifically kwitty.  Grover is a run stopping machine.  I feel if we could get a dog to replace kwitty, that would free up the others. 

 

We could use an upgrade at corner but on my personal list of priority, corner is towards the middle.  If we could improve on our pass rush and get a safety that could ball hawk, i think we’d see this defense become really good.  
 

But above all, regardless of what we do, Gus needs to get more aggressive. 

Kwitty will get better. 

[ChuggaBeer]

 I agree with the safety position being a big need.   

[smittywerb]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

Kwitty will get better. 

idk man, I’ve kind of gave up on him.  I’m not saying he’s bad.  He’s cool.  But he’s not what we need.  We need a defensive end that can cause havoc.  Unfortunately, those are hard to come by but we might be able to sign one this year depending on how things go.  
 

what I feel like happens, from a combination of the eye test and looking at stats, teams don’t worry about the front 4 because they know they can help on buck and Ebukam because of Grover and kwitty.  I feel like the reason why the blitz works so well when we do it is because that stops the offensive line from helping on buck and Ebukam.  But that also means we need stout safeties and corners because they have less help.  Think we’re good on corner for now, definitely need a ballhawk safety.  Texans game exposed that.

[Scott Pennock]

14 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

There are some excellent press corners in this draft

 

On teams that use a press man approach they leave the CB on an island.... this player HAS to be able to stay on their man

 

Its an EXTREMELY demanding role, and few can do it..... thats why you see the good ones make great $$$$

 

This coverage allows more often blitzes from LBs / S (Not much of that on the Colts)

 

 

The Colts are a mostly a ZONE team, The cornerbacks, on most plays need to keep the action in front of them

 

The CBs on THIS defense, can be a bit bigger and slower than the man to man CBs. Ability to tackle is a key role

 

The zone coverage has much value. Especially when you can get pressure on the QB with our front four (WHICH WE DONT)

 

If there is true pressure, its VERY tough for a QB to pass against, as the dbs are facing them and can break on the ball

 

A round 1 pick on a CB that is a press CB would seem to be a tremendous waste (ON THE COLTS)

 

There are some really good zone CBs that can be picked later - TJ Tampa others

 

As long as we employ the current DC, and dont change up the base defense, we will see more of what we have today

 

A Zone approach  is what we do

(I dont agree with our bland defense, but it is what it is)

 

If we want to use more zone defense, we need to invest in pass rush and FS

I agree 100% and that is why I do not see us using number 15 on any of those top corners - and I agree on Tampa as an option later in the draft as well as Cam Hart (Notre Dame) and Khryee Jackson (Oregon)

[NorthernColt]

I agree with you for the most part, but I don't think its as black and white as you say. Yes could we improve consistent pressure with our DL? Sure. But pure talent alone, our secondary room is possibly bottom 10 in the league. We are in desperate need of playmakers in the secondary.

 

Even if we play zone, a playmaker in the secondary makes QBs double take and 2nd guess throws, which in turn will help our pass rush.

 

Also, Quinyon Mitchell played mostly zone in college, had 6 INTs in the last 2 years. 

[MikeCurtis]

16 hours ago, csmopar said:

Kwitty will get better. 

It’s funny that you post that as I was thinking about it the other day

 

I don’t generally disagree

 

He PROBABLY will get better, but he was easily handled the last three games when we needed a win AND pressures/sacks.  The LT just handled him one on one

 

I think you saw the same thing that I saw…… little pressure when most needed

 

 

 

He has improved the past 3 years but I wonder if he will always be “middling” in performance 

 

This team, with the defense that we play CANNOT survive with average DEs

 

We need play makers…… at FS and DE

[throwing BBZ]

13 hours ago, smittywerb said:

idk man, I’ve kind of gave up on him.  I’m not saying he’s bad.  He’s cool.  But he’s not what we need.  We need a defensive end that can cause havoc.  Unfortunately, those are hard to come by but we might be able to sign one this year depending on how things go.  
 

what I feel like happens, from a combination of the eye test and looking at stats, teams don’t worry about the front 4 because they know they can help on buck and Ebukam because of Grover and kwitty.  I feel like the reason why the blitz works so well when we do it is because that stops the offensive line from helping on buck and Ebukam.  But that also means we need stout safeties and corners because they have less help.  Think we’re good on corner for now, definitely need a ballhawk safety.  Texans game exposed that.

 

 Gee, I recall that it was Brents that got humiliated in our last game. 

I think intelligent posters liked have having a CB with the speed to cover one on one like Gilmore could. 

[Hawkeyecolt]

The backside corner in Cover-3 is often in man coverage.  There  are a lot of good CB’s in this draft.  In the Colts system they must be able to tackle including run support. Jones was willing but poor.  Baker wanted no part of tackling.  His tackling was embarrassing.  If the knock on any of these corners is tackling then I don’t expect them to be drafted by the Colts. 

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Gee, I recall that it was Brents that got humiliated in our last game. 

I think intelligent posters liked have having a CB with the speed to cover one on one like Gilmore could. 

 

well you must have didn’t watch the game closely.  Brents turned the corner inside towards the safety like he was supposed to.  The FS eyes were in the backfield which led to the wide receiver running behind him.  Brents did what he was supposed to do, the safety didn’t.

 

on the second touchdown throw, the safety goofed again by following a player who was already being covered and left the tight end wide open. 
 

“intelligent” posters would’ve saw that.  The commentators even discussed it on the replay.  Don’t know how an “intelligent” poster like you missed that.

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Gee, I recall that it was Brents that got humiliated in our last game. 

I think intelligent posters liked have having a CB with the speed to cover one on one like Gilmore could. 

if you go to 1:30, you’ll #20 (the safety) bite on the play fake.  If he plays back, that play most likely results in a sack.  Not saying that we don’t need an upgrade at corner, but we DEFINITELY need one at FS

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Gee, I recall that it was Brents that got humiliated in our last game. 

I think intelligent posters liked have having a CB with the speed to cover one on one like Gilmore could. 

The game you said Brents was humiliated, PFF graded him out in the mid-80’s.   It was the lead story on the front of this website.   Things aren’t quite as black and white as you might think. 

[throwing BBZ]

On 2/22/2024 at 7:52 PM, smittywerb said:

I’m there with you.  I don’t think our problem are our defensive backs, even though I think we should definitely upgrade the FS position with McKinney if possible.  I think we need to improve on getting pressure also.  

 

people will point to our sacks but where the true story lies is our pressure rate.  According to statmuse (https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/which-nfl-teams-pressure-the-qb-the-most-this-season), our pressure rate was 85.0.  Which isn’t bad, but isn’t good also.  But when you think about the scheme, it’s actually worse because we depend on our front 4 and don’t blitz, meaning our defensive backs are actually solid.  The sack number with the low pressure means our defensive backs are actually solid.  
 

and then when you look at our pass rush win rate, we have Ebukam and Buckner who perform well (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/sack-pct).  Which once again leads me to believe our pass rush needs an upgrade, specifically kwitty.  Grover is a run stopping machine.  I feel if we could get a dog to replace kwitty, that would free up the others. 

 

We could use an upgrade at corner but on my personal list of priority, corner is towards the middle.  If we could improve on our pass rush and get a safety that could ball hawk, i think we’d see this defense become really good.  
 

But above all, regardless of what we do, Gus needs to get more aggressive. 

 

 So if our 4 man sack rate is very good, and our pressure rate of 85 "isn't bad", and we are solid against the run, yet we finished what was it 28th in defense, you surmise that our secondary, and yes our LB play didn't stink. Okee dokee.

[smittywerb]

11 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 So if our 4 man sack rate is very good, and our pressure rate of 85 "isn't bad", and we are solid against the run, yet we finished what was it 28th in defense, you surmise that our secondary, and yes our LB play didn't stink. Okee dokee.

it means we’re not getting to the qb FAST enough.  Even in the example I showed you, that would’ve been a coverage sack which means the qb didn’t have anyone to throw to.  Not a sack because we had someone who beat their man quick enough to get to the qb.  Sack rate vs PRESSURE rate.

 

dude, if you’re going to base your argument off of stats, then at least understand what they mean so you can form a sound conclusion.  
 

i said we need a FS because the post spoke of one and I agreed.  I’ve also mentioned on this forum and I think this post that we need a DOG on the defensive line also.  

[AwesomeAustin]

We need a couple more very good DBs. One at CB and safety. Honestly, every level of this defense needs a playmaker. It’s far from elite. 

[Dark Superman]

If the Colts aren't able to a top FA at CB then I wouldn't mind taking a flier on Xavien Howard to bring in a veteran presence to help mentor the younger guys while filling a need at outside CB. Also, Xavien will go back to playing man coverage which is something he excels in.

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, Dark Superman said:

If the Colts aren't able to a top FA at CB then I wouldn't mind taking a flier on Xavien Howard to bring in a veteran presence to help mentor the younger guys while filling a need at outside CB. Also, Xavien will go back to playing man coverage which is something he excels in.

It’s the route I see us going quite honestly. Not necessarily him specifically, but an older vet and maybe one that isn’t brought in to be an upgrade but more depth/mentor like you said. 

[Dark Superman]

7 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

It’s the route I see us going quite honestly. Not necessarily him specifically, but an older vet and maybe one that isn’t brought in to be an upgrade but more depth/mentor like you said. 

I would be okay with signing him on a short deal if the price is right.

[ColtStrong2013]

3 minutes ago, Dark Superman said:

I would be okay with signing him on a short deal if the price is right.

what do you think he’ll pull? 

[Dark Superman]

3 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

what do you think he’ll pull? 

Probably something close to what Gilmore signed with the Colts. I guess it'll depend on how high his market is and how long he has to sit and wait to sign somewhere. I'm assume he'll sign something close to 12-15 million per year.

[smittywerb]

On 2/24/2024 at 3:44 PM, Dark Superman said:

If the Colts aren't able to a top FA at CB then I wouldn't mind taking a flier on Xavien Howard to bring in a veteran presence to help mentor the younger guys while filling a need at outside CB. Also, Xavien will go back to playing man coverage which is something he excels in.

I also think we’re going this route based off of ballards words.  He blamed himself for the DBs being so young.  Not sure if I want Xavier however, he’s been on the decline.  I don’t know why however.  But I think we go vet for both CB and FS.

[Lifetime Colt]

Don't forget, the current LB's are poor in coverage, which are routes that open up quickly, thus reducing the pressure the DL gets. Teams have feasted on the Colts middle of the field 5-20 yard routes for a few years now, longer drives, less pressure, simple play action and another first down, 

[Zoltan]

2 hours ago, Lifetime Colt said:

Don't forget, the current LB's are poor in coverage, which are routes that open up quickly, thus reducing the pressure the DL gets. Teams have feasted on the Colts middle of the field 5-20 yard routes for a few years now, longer drives, less pressure, simple play action and another first down, 

Yeah, I believe LB is a much bigger need than some think for that exact reason. Franklin and Speed are liabilities in coverage which often leads the middle of the field open. We need a true 3 down LB that can cover and be good against the run. That's why I like Edgerrin Cooper as our 2nd round pick, he excels in zone coverage and is good against outside runs, he does have a weakness against power runs but pairing him with Franklin should help.

[husker61]

On 2/23/2024 at 11:28 PM, throwing BBZ said:

 

 , and yes our LB play didn't stink. Okee dokee.

they are bad! I have been saying this for a long time and think this is the top need, 2 new lb’s.

[Zoltan]

13 minutes ago, husker61 said:

they are bad! I have been saying this for a long time and think this is the top need, 2 new lb’s.

Yeah Franklin Pff grade is 60.9 and EJ Speed is 65. Which 60-69 is considered a grade you would expect from a backup. 
Now I don’t always agree with their grades, it does reflect how I have seen them play, they are good backups but we need starters. 

[NewColtsFan]

59 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

Yeah Franklin Pff grade is 60.9 and EJ Speed is 65. Which 60-69 is considered a grade you would expect from a backup. 
Now I don’t always agree with their grades, it does reflect how I have seen them play, they are good backups but we need starters. 

I think you’re a little off on saying grades in the 60’s are for backups.   Without even looking I can say with confidence that all 32 teams have starters with grades in the 60’s.   
 

In other words, it’s not the 90’s are an A, the 80’s are a B, the 70’s are a C and the 60’s a D.   PFF grades don’t work that way at all.   If you’ll notice, any player with grades in the 60’s have a light green color.  The 70’s have a darker green color.   Green is a starter level grade.   Honestly, I’ve seen some players who start have grades in the 50’s.   It happens.   You just don’t want it too often.  
 

Hope that clarifies.   If you have questions I’m always here.    

[lollygagger8]

On 2/22/2024 at 8:29 PM, csmopar said:

Kwitty will get better. 

When? 

[Zoltan]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think you’re a little off on saying grades in the 60’s are for backups.   Without even looking I can say with confidence that all 32 teams have starters with grades in the 60’s.   
 

In other words, it’s not the 90’s are an A, the 80’s are a B, the 70’s are a C and the 60’s a D.   PFF grades don’t work that way at all.   If you’ll notice, any player with grades in the 60’s have a light green color.  The 70’s have a darker green color.   Green is a starter level grade.   Honestly, I’ve seen some players who start have grades in the 50’s.   It happens.   You just don’t want it too often.  
 

Hope that clarifies.   If you have questions I’m always here.    

I was using this as a reference

https://dfshub.com/pro-football-focus-pff-player-grades/

 

The PFF rating system works like this: 

100-90 Elite 

89-85 Pro Bowler 

84-70 Starter 

69-60 Backup 

59-0 Replaceable 

 

Sure you can have individual bad game grades but season grades are different

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Zoltan said:

I was using this as a reference

https://dfshub.com/pro-football-focus-pff-player-grades/

 

The PFF rating system works like this: 

100-90 Elite 

89-85 Pro Bowler 

84-70 Starter 

69-60 Backup 

59-0 Replaceable 

 

Sure you can have individual bad game grades but season grades are different

Took me a while, but I think I’ve figured it out.    DFS stands for Daily Fantasy Sports.   These grades you posted are for fantasy purposes, I don’t believe they’re for grades that Colts fans or fans of any NFL team focus on week to week or even season to season. 
 

Here’s a for instance.  PFF graded 79 guards last year.   Using your grades that you posted as our guide, do you know how many guards would be considered starters?    17.   That’s it, 17 out of 79.   And coincidently the 17th graded guy is none other than Quentin Nelson.   17 guards in the entire NFL would be considered starter level.   That’s nonsensical. 
 

So I’m confident there is a different way to view the regular PFF grades.  But the PFF website can be a maze.  I’ve called PFF in the past and they used to answer the phone.  More recently it goes to voice mail.  

 

Perhaps @w87r and @Superman can chime in….    
 

Guys, can you look at this exchange with @Zoltan and I and offer some views?

 

Thanks in advance. 

[Zoltan]

9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Took me a while, but I think I’ve figured it out.    DFS stands for Daily Fantasy Sports.   These grades you posted are for fantasy purposes, I don’t believe they’re for grades that Colts fans or fans of any NFL team focus on week to week or even season to season. 
 

Here’s a for instance.  PFF graded 79 guards last year.   Using your grades that you posted as our guide, do you know how many guards would be considered starters?    17.   That’s it, 17 out of 79.   And coincidently the 17th graded guy is none other than Quentin Nelson.   17 guards in the entire NFL would be considered starter level.   That’s nonsensical. 
 

So I’m confident there is a different way to view the regular PFF grades.  But the PFF website can be a maze.  I’ve called PFF in the past and they used to answer the phone.  More recently it goes to voice mail.  

 

Perhaps @w87r and @Superman can chime in….    
 

Guys, can you look at this exchange with @Zoltan and I and offer some views?

 

Thanks in advance. 

Honestly, was not trying to get a debate about PFF scores, just wanted to show my source. That’s why I said I don’t always agree with them in the original post. I do think Franklin and speed are low end starters, or high level back ups

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

Honestly, was not trying to get a debate about PFF scores, just wanted to show my source. That’s why I said I don’t always agree with them in the original post. I do think Franklin and speed are low end starters, or high level back ups

Well….   I wasn’t trying to debate the issue either.   I was only trying to understand something that made no sense to me.   I’m not trying to win some debate by inviting in the two moderators who understand this best.   I’m only trying figure this out.  
 

Honestly, that’s all. 

[csmopar]

4 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

When? 

He’s not as bad as some of you think. 
 

that said, I’m expecting a break out year for him this year . 

[throwing BBZ]

On 2/24/2024 at 10:53 AM, smittywerb said:

it means we’re not getting to the qb FAST enough.  Even in the example I showed you, that would’ve been a coverage sack which means the qb didn’t have anyone to throw to.  Not a sack because we had someone who beat their man quick enough to get to the qb.  Sack rate vs PRESSURE rate.

 

dude, if you’re going to base your argument off of stats, then at least understand what they mean so you can form a sound conclusion.  
 

i said we need a FS because the post spoke of one and I agreed.  I’ve also mentioned on this forum and I think this post that we need a DOG on the defensive line also.  

 

 The most important stat is late 20's in defense. Then the eternal test.

We can get a sack that puts them in long situations and they quickly pick apart our poor coverage. 

[w87r]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Took me a while, but I think I’ve figured it out.    DFS stands for Daily Fantasy Sports.   These grades you posted are for fantasy purposes, I don’t believe they’re for grades that Colts fans or fans of any NFL team focus on week to week or even season to season. 
 

Here’s a for instance.  PFF graded 79 guards last year.   Using your grades that you posted as our guide, do you know how many guards would be considered starters?    17.   That’s it, 17 out of 79.   And coincidently the 17th graded guy is none other than Quentin Nelson.   17 guards in the entire NFL would be considered starter level.   That’s nonsensical. 
 

So I’m confident there is a different way to view the regular PFF grades.  But the PFF website can be a maze.  I’ve called PFF in the past and they used to answer the phone.  More recently it goes to voice mail.  

 

Perhaps @w87r and @Superman can chime in….    
 

Guys, can you look at this exchange with @Zoltan and I and offer some views?

 

Thanks in advance. 

What's the question?

 

PFF tiers:

Elite 90+

Great 80-89

Good 70-79

Above Average 65-69

Average 56-64

Below Average 50-55

Bad <50

 

 

For instance there are 64 starting guards in the league. Only 79 with a ranking.

 

 

I actually use their rank when thinking of starters, because like I said every team starts 2 guards, so that is 64 players there. So if they rank in top 64, they rank as starters to me. That doesn't mean they grade out that way but that's just how I look at it.

 

Will Fries ranked out at #32, so in my eyes we had (2) #1 guards on our team. Again not what the grade says, but what the ranking shows. But with a 61.2 grade, he grades out at an average grade. 

 

 

@Solid84is probably better person to ask, as they have PFF premium. I just posted the free grades that were updated every week.

 

 

Now something else to look at is, the Colts actually had (3) DEs graded as starter lever in their rankings. Ekubam - 14(mid #1), Paye - 36(high #2), Lewis - 40(mid-high #2), and their grades for that matter.

 

 

Hope that helps a little?

[Solid84]

PFF says 60 is average, but beyond that is personal interpretation.
 

Given how rare 90+ is though, especially over a season, I think it’s fairly safe to call that tier elite. 
 

Then it’s really just a matter of how many tiers you want. 

[w87r]

12 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

PFF says 60 is average, but beyond that is personal interpretation.
 

Given how rare 90+ is though, especially over a season, I think it’s fairly safe to call that tier elite. 
 

Then it’s really just a matter of how many tiers you want. 

When I started my response I took the PFF starter/ backup tiers that was listed in the Zoltan post above as what they were.

 

Wasn't till I almost got done with my post before I went and confirmed what the actual tiers were from our weekly grades threads

 

Had to edit a few things out that didn't make sense. Probably left some remnants.

[Hawkeyecolt]

On 2/24/2024 at 9:53 AM, smittywerb said:

it means we’re not getting to the qb FAST enough.  Even in the example I showed you, that would’ve been a coverage sack which means the qb didn’t have anyone to throw to.  Not a sack because we had someone who beat their man quick enough to get to the qb.  Sack rate vs PRESSURE rate.

 

dude, if you’re going to base your argument off of stats, then at least understand what they mean so you can form a sound conclusion.  
 

i said we need a FS because the post spoke of one and I agreed.  I’ve also mentioned on this forum and I think this post that we need a DOG on the defensive line also.  

Except their win rate was top 10 so they were getting beat by a lot of quick hitters underneath.   Yes, the pressure rate could be better but the back 7 was a bigger problem.   

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

Except their win rate was top 10 so they were getting beat by a lot of quick hitters underneath.   Yes, the pressure rate could be better but the back 7 was a bigger problem.   

win rate was probably inflated by Buckner and Ebukam.  When I looked at the link above I posted in a previous reply. Buckner and Ebukam both placed in the top 20 regarding pass rush win rate.  Highly doubt Grover and Paye are close.  Do you truly believe we have a top 10 pass rush based off our personnel?  I mean, the titans have a top 10 pass rush also according to win rate. (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38356170/2023-nfl-pass-rush-run-stop-blocking-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams).  

 

but you bring up a good point as in to why I think FS and certified pass rusher could help this team better than a CB.  We got hit by quick hitters a lot because of our scheme.  I mentioned above that no matter what we do or who’s the problem, we have to get more aggressive.  Which means we need people who can go and get the QB fast.  Whether that’s a linebacker or defensive end.  I also say we need a better FS because being aggressive opens you up for bigger plays, so we need someone back there who erases that when we do get an aggressive.

 

i agree, in our back 7 I do feel we could use an upgrade.  I’m personally hoping we sign a vet CB and FS.  But CB wasn’t the only problem.  And if I had to list it on our defensive problems it would probably be 4th behind scheme, FS, and a certified pass rushing capable DE to replace kwitty.