Update: Colts signing Michael Pittman Jr to three year contract

[Superman]

Just now, csmopar said:

If the chiefs came calling, I might do 32nd this year plus Snead….

 

I think you'd be lucky to get either, and in an altered state of mind to expect both.

[smittywerb]

18 minutes ago, w87r said:

They don't really get around it.

 

 

They actually have to sign the 1yr non exclusive tag before they are able to be traded.

 

Then after trade, they will sign a new deal with new team, that $21.8m will be figured in new deal.

 

As far as offer sheets, the only real "official offer sheets" that get signed are on RFA Tenders.

 

ok I follow, so a way we won’t get 2 first round picks is if Pittman doesn’t sign the offer and leave.  So in that case, it’s best to work something out with the other team at least if he doesn’t sign the offer sheet.

 

idk, still sounds like a workaround to me.  the player can just refuse to resign and leave in any situation.  

[w87r]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

You're right, we don't have that kind of control. But now that the tag has been applied, it should be made clear to Pittman's agent that we're not trading him for peanuts. The tag compensation is two firsts, and that shouldn't be disregarded. In fact, the Colts could say 'we're not open to a trade for anything less,' just to make the point clear. 

 

But if they are open to other possibilities, then set the baseline for what we'd be willing to accept. Otherwise the Chiefs come calling saying 'Pittman wants to sign with us, we'll give you a conditional third,' and now the well is poisoned for everyone.

 

I think this is why it's so rare for players to get moved on the tag. Unless it's a situation like the Chiefs and Snead, where both sides are apparently open to moving on and just using the tag to accommodate a trade. But the Colts want to keep Pittman, and have a reasonable offer on the table (we can assume). 

I think there is a clear expectation of what we would accept, as his agent ascends on the league. And I have no doubt that the floor is (1) 1st, more likely (1) 1st and (1) 4th as a floor. Obviously I don't know any of that to be true(all speculation), but can imagine they have thought about what they would take, if he wanted to go elsewhere. (2) 1st is a lot and not likely, but if you can get something a little less for a guy(who at this point would have demonstrated he would like to play elsewhere), I think making the move is probably the way to go.

 

 

Clearly not going to take a 3rd for him, if that was the case we would just make him play the tag out and get a 3rd round comp pick for him in 2026.

 

It's going to take cooperativity from all sides to make it work. As has been stated, it is a rarity. Again again, Colts hold all the cards in the end, so all sides need to play fair to have a chance at a deal.

 

I just think the AJ Brown trade is a good baseline for any potential deal to be made here. Brown was for a 1st and 3rd. So a 1st and 4th seems like a reasonable expectation.

 

 

Colts want to keep Pittman, yes I agree it definitely seems that way. The question is, does Pittman want to stay and now will be feel after he sees what is out there.

Then, if the Colts want to play hard ball or be accommodating in facilitating the trade.?

[Solid84]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Wow. Edelman qualifies as a WR1, but Pittman doesn't?

 

Do you have any non-vibe criteria? You call him dynamic, but we knock Pittman's dynamic ability because of his yards/catch, which are basically the same as Edelman's. 

 

Edelman was primarily a slot -- which means he didn't face #1 corners -- who got schemed open, was great after catch, and played with one of the most efficient QBs in NFL history, and alongside one of the most dominant TEs in history. And his statistical production in his best season is basically what people say is not good enough from Pittman in 2023, with a backup QB. 

 

That's a weird one for me. It's one thing to say he's a gamer and you'd rather have him on your team than Pittman. I could get that. But I don't get how he can qualify as a WR1, if Pittman doesn't. To me, neither of them do.

To be fair, I’ve said earlier in this thread:

Quote

I don’t know if you would call a slot WR1, but I guess he was in 2016. 

And I stick by that. 
 

In 2016 Edelman forced 17 missed tackles which is 6 shy of what Pittman has in his entire career. He made plays when they weren’t there to make. 
 

Over his entire career Edelman was probably not a WR1, but he definitely had some of the qualities and in some years he played like one. 

[smittywerb]

30 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

No because once tagged the team who tagged them has to agree to a trade.  If they don’t the player is stuck facing either sitting it out and not getting paid or signing and making a boat load of money.  

Ok so what’s a situation where we lose him and don’t get 2 first round picks?  

[w87r]

7 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

 

ok I follow, so a way we won’t get 2 first round picks is if Pittman doesn’t sign the offer and leave.  So in that case, it’s best to work something out with the other team at least if he doesn’t sign the offer sheet.

 

idk, still sounds like a workaround to me.  the player can just refuse to resign and leave in any situation.  

There is no offer sheet, in literal sense.

 

The team Pittman is trying to go to, will have discussions with Pittman's agent and probably him about what a new contract might look like, if a trade can be worked out(something less than (2) 1st).

 

They will just be talks though and not an official offer sheet. Just parameters of a deal. 

 

 

 

So that's where it will come down to what Pittman wants to do, stay or go, and how accommodating Ballard will be in making it happen. Colts hold all the cards.at the end of the day.

 

17 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

Ok so what’s a situation where we lose him and don’t get 2 first round picks?  

Say he goes and talks to the Chiefs. They come to an informal agreement on parameters of a new deal.

 

Pittman goes to Ballard and says he appreciates his time in Indy but would like to go to KC and has parameters of a deal worked out.

 

Ballard and KC GM(Veach?) get on the phone and work out a deal. 

 

Say KC offers #32 and 2025 3rd

 

Both sides agree(hypothetically)

 

Pittman signs 1yr franchise tender we offered him him(not to be confused with an offer sheet from new team).  Has to in order to be traded.

 

Then the trade goes through.

 

Once trade is official, Pittman and KC announce his new extension.

 

 

 

Ultimately we control whether we move him and for how much. 

 

This is how we can lose him for less than (2) 1st.

[Happy2BeHere]

KC isn’t going to go after Pittman. they had Hill who was fire miles ahead of Pittman and they didn’t keep him.

 

I don’t think Pittman gets any reasonable offer from any other team and a long term deal will get done with the Colts IMO

[1959Colts]

 

 

[Yoshinator]

This is the 2nd best case scenario IMO. Best case was a long-term deal today, but we really can't get screwed here. So I'm ok with this. Hope to extend him soon.

3 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

 

 

Hope we go after him aggressively if we don't resign Blackmon. Safety class is weak in the draft.

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I think you'd be lucky to get either, and in an altered state of mind to expect both.

Supes, I disagree. 
 

The cost to move from No.32 to No.15 is worth a mid 2nd rounder and if we throw in a 3rd, we should be able to get L’Jarius Sneed. A 2nd and a 3rd is what Chiefs are expecting for Sneed considering the alternative is to pay him $20 million per year.

 

So a 1st round swap and a 3rd gets us Sneed, would be great value for us and to an extent them too because they don’t have to pay him.

 

However, despite the value proposition, as long as Gus Bradley is DC, Sneed won’t be maximized as a man CB in our system. The word is the Lions and Dolphins are targeting him.

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, smittywerb said:

Ok so what’s a situation where we lose him and don’t get 2 first round picks?  

The Colts agree to trade him to another team before he signs an offer sheet from another team.  There is no incentive for the Colts to entertain this since they want to keep Pittman.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

Supes, I disagree. 
 

The cost to move from No.32 to No.15 is worth a mid 2nd rounder and if we throw in a 3rd, we should be able to get L’Jarius Sneed. A 2nd and a 3rd is what Chiefs are expecting for Sneed considering the alternative is to pay him $20 million per year.

 

So a 1st round swap and a 3rd gets us Sneed, would be great value for us and to an extent them too because they don’t have to pay him.

 

However, despite the value proposition, as long as Gus Bradley is DC, Sneed won’t be maximized as a man CB in our system. The word is the Lions and Dolphins are targeting him.

The story I read about the Chiefs is that they’re not willing to trade a 2.   They’re willing to trade a 3, but that’s it.   
 

And I don’t think Ballard has any interest in trading for a corner that will likely want a contract of roughly 15-18 million.   I don’t see Ballard ever paying any corner that kind of money.  

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

The story I read about the Chiefs is that they’re not willing to trade a 2.   They’re willing to trade a 3, but that’s it.   
 

And I don’t think Ballard has any interest in trading for a corner that will likely want a contract of roughly 15-18 million.   I don’t see Ballard ever paying any corner that kind of money.  

Especially not for a defensives system that doesn’t put a priority on corners.  The whole point of the defense Ballard believes in is that you can get by with solid to good corners and you don’t need an elite one to run it.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

Supes, I disagree. 
 

The cost to move from No.32 to No.15 is worth a mid 2nd rounder and if we throw in a 3rd, we should be able to get L’Jarius Sneed. A 2nd and a 3rd is what Chiefs are expecting for Sneed considering the alternative is to pay him $20 million per year.

 

So a 1st round swap and a 3rd gets us Sneed, would be great value for us and to an extent them too because they don’t have to pay him.

 

However, despite the value proposition, as long as Gus Bradley is DC, Sneed won’t be maximized as a man CB in our system. The word is the Lions and Dolphins are targeting him.

 

Maybe I misunderstood csmopar then. I thought he was saying Pittman for Sneed + #32.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, Solid84 said:

To be fair, I’ve said earlier in this thread:

And I stick by that. 
 

In 2016 Edelman forced 17 missed tackles which is 6 shy of what Pittman has in his entire career. He made plays when they weren’t there to make. 
 

Over his entire career Edelman was probably not a WR1, but he definitely had some of the qualities and in some years he played like one. 

 

Just kind of highlights the difficulty, IMO, in talking about Pittman and other WRs. I think the criteria kind of changes depending on the player and the opinion.

[Hawkeyecolt]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

You're right, we don't have that kind of control. But now that the tag has been applied, it should be made clear to Pittman's agent that we're not trading him for peanuts. The tag compensation is two firsts, and that shouldn't be disregarded. In fact, the Colts could say 'we're not open to a trade for anything less,' just to make the point clear. 

 

But if they are open to other possibilities, then set the baseline for what we'd be willing to accept. Otherwise the Chiefs come calling saying 'Pittman wants to sign with us, we'll give you a conditional third,' and now the well is poisoned for everyone.

 

I think this is why it's so rare for players to get moved on the tag. Unless it's a situation like the Chiefs and Snead, where both sides are apparently open to moving on and just using the tag to accommodate a trade. But the Colts want to keep Pittman, and have a reasonable offer on the table (we can assume). 

Exactly. The Colts are perfectly content to pay Pittman $21-25 million per year.  The Chiefs have historically let their corners walk.  They have no desire to pay Sneed $19 million and everyone knows it.  
 

 

Im not sure how many people know that Pittman bought a farm just outside of Indy. He has no desire to go elsewhere.  He and his team are trying to maximize their contract with the Colts.  That’s it. 

[smittywerb]

10 hours ago, w87r said:

There is no offer sheet, in literal sense.

 

The team Pittman is trying to go to, will have discussions with Pittman's agent and probably him about what a new contract might look like, if a trade can be worked out(something less than (2) 1st).

 

They will just be talks though and not an official offer sheet. Just parameters of a deal. 

 

 

 

So that's where it will come down to what Pittman wants to do, stay or go, and how accommodating Ballard will be in making it happen. Colts hold all the cards.at the end of the day.

 

Say he goes and talks to the Chiefs. They come to an informal agreement on parameters of a new deal.

 

Pittman goes to Ballard and says he appreciates his time in Indy but would like to go to KC and has parameters of a deal worked out.

 

Ballard and KC GM(Veach?) get on the phone and work out a deal. 

 

Say KC offers #32 and 2025 3rd

 

Both sides agree(hypothetically)

 

Pittman signs 1yr franchise tender we offered him him(not to be confused with an offer sheet from new team).  Has to in order to be traded.

 

Then the trade goes through.

 

Once trade is official, Pittman and KC announce his new extension.

 

 

 

Ultimately we control whether we move him and for how much. 

 

This is how we can lose him for less than (2) 1st.

 

Well that sucks!  lol NFL should make it a mandatory 2 first round picks.  Oh well, can’t force a player to stay and if he doesn’t want to stay then he’ll ultimately leave.  Best to not let him leave for nothing.

 

what I hope doesn’t happen is what if MPJ doesn’t get what he’s looking for from other teams and still decide to not resign out of spite.  Idk, that’s where my mind goes lol

 

appreciate you and @GoColts8818 breaking this down for me!

[w87r]

1 hour ago, smittywerb said:

 

Well that sucks!  lol NFL should make it a mandatory 2 first round picks.  Oh well, can’t force a player to stay and if he doesn’t want to stay then he’ll ultimately leave.  Best to not let him leave for nothing.

 

what I hope doesn’t happen is what if MPJ doesn’t get what he’s looking for from other teams and still decide to not resign out of spite.  Idk, that’s where my mind goes lol

 

appreciate you and @GoColts8818 breaking this down for me!

There nothing about it that really sucks for the Colts. They either retain their guy(tag or extension) or they get compensated pretty nicely (even if it doesn't end up being (2) 1st), and open up $21.8m in cap space.

 

 

Anyway, Pittman probably want to stay(most likely what will happen), just throwing out a hypothetical of what could happen, if he did happen to find a place he would want to leave for.

 

If Colts want to play hard ball and demand the (2) 1st, they can and probably should. However, that is unlikely to happen, so if you can still get a nice compensation package for a guy who wants to leave, it makes sense to at least talk about it. Find a middle ground.

 

Franchised players usually stay, so if he does end up being traded, he will have really wanted to have been. That's why I keep saying it really depends on what he wants to do. If he does want to go elsewhere, the likelihood is Ballard will find a deal that is good for the Colts and facilitate the trade 

 

 

***None of this is saying Pittman actually wants to leave or has expressed the desire to do so at this point. Just hypothetical situation.

 

 

I fully expect them to come to an agreement on a 3-4yr(probably 3yr), $24mAAV contract with $48m guaranteed(2 franchise tag amounts), at some point in the offseason.

 

3yr $72m

4yr $96m

 

 

That gives Pittman some security in case he would get injured this year. A guaranteed 2nd franchise tag seems to be the floor for me. Don't see why Pittman would agree to anything less. 2yr $48m. Add a 3rd non guaranteed year at $24m and call it a day.

 

Gets him guaranteed pay day and option for another big contract in 2 years.

 

 

I don't think there is anything to worry about. Like I said to start this post, we either keep Pittman or we get compensated nicely for trading him and free up $21.8m in cap space. Win/win for the Colts.

 

Sorry for the long rant.

[Solid84]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Just kind of highlights the difficulty, IMO, in talking about Pittman and other WRs. I think the criteria kind of changes depending on the player and the opinion.

I think there are some pretty obvious criteria a players needs to make to be considered a true WR1 and Pittman just doesn't.

 

A threat the defense has to plan around

Can get YAC

Can make guys miss

Scores TDs

Makes contested catches

Elite route runner

 

You could probably add more. Not saying a guy has to check all the boxes, but he has to be elite in some I think. Pittman isn't elite in any of these. He's good and I'm glad we have him, but if he's our WR1 we're not going anywhere.

[chad72]

12 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I think there are some pretty obvious criteria a players needs to make to be considered a true WR1 and Pittman just doesn't.

 

A threat the defense has to plan around

Can get YAC

Can make guys miss

Scores TDs

Makes contested catches

Elite route runner

 

You could probably add more. Not saying a guy has to check all the boxes, but he has to be elite in some I think. Pittman isn't elite in any of these. He's good and I'm glad we have him, but if he's our WR1 we're not going anywhere.

 

That is why if Brian Thomas Jr. is there at No.15, he has everything in him that could make him a CeeDee Lamb type of alpha, IMO.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I think there are some pretty obvious criteria a players needs to make to be considered a true WR1 and Pittman just doesn't.

 

A threat the defense has to plan around

Can get YAC

Can make guys miss

Scores TDs

Makes contested catches

Elite route runner

 

You could probably add more. Not saying a guy has to check all the boxes, but he has to be elite in some I think. Pittman isn't elite in any of these. He's good and I'm glad we have him, but if he's our WR1 we're not going anywhere.

What? Contrasted catches he is 100% elite. Just wait until he has Richardson back a lot of you will be proven wrong. We will finally get the Pittman that is all around WR. Having a QB that can hit him at all levels of the field will be huge. Every QB he has played with has had a limitation. Wentz was terrible in the middle. Minshew terrible downfield. Rivers really couldn’t throw much downfield by the end.

[csmopar]

13 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I think you'd be lucky to get either, and in an altered state of mind to expect both.

Oh I know lol

[lollygagger8]

12 hours ago, 1959Colts said:

 

 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, w87r said:

I fully expect them to come to an agreement on a 3-4yr(probably 3yr), $24mAAV contract with $48m guaranteed(2 franchise tag amounts), at some point in the offseason

why 3 instead of 4, which would tie him to the end of Richardson’s 5th year option? 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Solid84 said:

I think there are some pretty obvious criteria a players needs to make to be considered a true WR1 and Pittman just doesn't.

 

A threat the defense has to plan around

Can get YAC

Can make guys miss

Scores TDs

Makes contested catches

Elite route runner

 

You could probably add more. Not saying a guy has to check all the boxes, but he has to be elite in some I think. Pittman isn't elite in any of these. He's good and I'm glad we have him, but if he's our WR1 we're not going anywhere.

Perhaps you have stats to back up your claim, but coming out of college contested catches was considered an elite quality for Pittman.   That was hi-lited the day he was drafted.   And I think route running was also a highly ranked skill.  
 

The first three I grant you.

 

For what it’s worth,  these last few years, as we’ve been debating what Pitt is or isn’t,  I’ve been saying Pitt is not a WR1, but a high level WR2.  
 

I hope we work out a long term deal that’s win-win for both sides.  

[NewColtsFan]

25 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

FWIW:

 

The projection on McKinney is in the neighborhood of 4 years and about $56 mill.   $14 mill per year.   
 

Just saying if that’s true, I wouldn’t get your hopes up too much. 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I think there are some pretty obvious criteria a players needs to make to be considered a true WR1 and Pittman just doesn't.

 

A threat the defense has to plan around

Can get YAC

Can make guys miss

Scores TDs

Makes contested catches

Elite route runner

 

You could probably add more. Not saying a guy has to check all the boxes, but he has to be elite in some I think. Pittman isn't elite in any of these. He's good and I'm glad we have him, but if he's our WR1 we're not going anywhere.

 

I wouldn't call Pittman elite in those areas either. He does well in contested situations, but he's not posterizing defenders in the end zone. I'm not arguing that he's a WR1.

 

However, these criteria seem cherry picked in a way to make the case for 2016 Edelman to be on a higher tier than I think he should be. Overall production, big play ability, commanding a double team, etc., all seem equally or more important.

 

And the factor that goes case by case is the player's impact on the offense overall. Edelman played with Brady and Gronk (although in 2016, Gronk was hurt). His production with a GOAT level QB is the same as Pittman's with a journeyman backup. One thing I think Edelman has that Pittman doesn't is proven ability in big situations, but Pittman hasn't been in any big situations so far. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

What? Contrasted catches he is 100% elite. Just wait until he has Richardson back a lot of you will be proven wrong. We will finally get the Pittman that is all around WR. Having a QB that can hit him at all levels of the field will be huge. Every QB he has played with has had a limitation. Wentz was terrible in the middle. Minshew terrible downfield. Rivers really couldn’t throw much downfield by the end.

Richardson is not close to perfect in all ways a QB can operate, you've to have a full year to assess what he does well, where he needs improvement and how he comes along there. His return from injury shouldn't be talked in the same sense as an elite QB.

 

And, I think @Solid84 didn't mean to say Pittman isn't elite in any of these categories but he's not elite in many of these categories to be a WR1 so far, and shortage of QB play alone doesn't account for all that. Richardson if he connects well with Pittman could both make for a lot of TDs together, but not much difference would be seen in other categories. 

 

Simply put, If Pittman is WR1, most of the fans wouldn't talk about WR as an important need in the draft or about the need for adding explosiveness to the offense. 

[Superman]

3 hours ago, w87r said:

***None of this is saying Pittman actually wants to leave or has expressed the desire to do so at this point. Just hypothetical situation.

 

I looked this up the other day and meant to post about it, but forgot. Pittman's agent has some heavy hitters on his roster. One of the biggest -- Deshaun Watson. He has several other guys who were or are the highest paid at their positions -- Derwin James, Jalen Ramsey, Michael Thomas, etc. Tee Higgins is one of his clients, so are Justin Fields, Xavier McKinney, and Micah Parsons.. So he'll be busy this offseason.

 

The Colts have worked with him before. Eric Ebron, Malik Hooker. When Ballard says he's a good agent, I see why.

 

I don't think any of that means anything about Pittman, but this agent has dealt with high profile departures, and doesn't seem like the type of guy to leave anything on the table if he doesn't have to. 

 

https://fanspo.com/nfl/agents/david-mulugheta/45657

[dw49]

3 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

That is why if Brian Thomas Jr. is there at No.15, he has everything in him that could make him a CeeDee Lamb type of alpha, IMO.

 

I would be surprised if Thomas was not available at pick 1.15. I would ne equally surprised if the Colts selected him there . I would think if the 3 top Wrs and Bowers are gone at 15 , they go for one of the top 3 cbs. That would be Mitchell , Arnold and Wiggins.  They could then trade up a bit in round 2 and get a nice WR.  

 

[throwing BBZ]

6 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Richardson is not close to perfect in all ways a QB can operate, you've to have a full year to assess what he does well, where he needs improvement and how he comes along there. His return from injury shouldn't be talked in the same sense as an elite QB.

 

And, I think @Solid84 didn't mean to say Pittman isn't elite in any of these categories but he's not elite in many of these categories to be a WR1 so far, and shortage of QB play alone doesn't account for all that. Richardson if he connects well with Pittman could both make for a lot of TDs together, but not much difference would be seen in other categories. 

 

Simply put, If Pittman is WR1, most of the fans wouldn't talk about WR as an important need in the draft or about the need for adding explosiveness to the offense. 

 

 Silliness.

 The fact that we were absolutely not threatening from the TE or WR2 position, and our QB's certainly the last 2 seasons were primarily limited to 15 yards deep explains why the need for Richardson and more production elsewhere is the compelling argument for help. 

 Give me a fast route runner (Ricky Piersall) to take snaps from Pierce and  cross my fingers a healthy Woods / Brock Bowers, and Pittman will be in many more big play, big game situations. I believe he would be a stud. lol

[shasta519]

18 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

You mean, more than 1 way to win a SB. Yep, I agree with that. 

 

The common theme is stellar and smart QB play. Shootouts like the 2017 SB of the Eagles vs Patriots are rare where both teams score in their 30s, in regulation.

 

I mean...it happened in the 2023 SB as well with KC and PHI.  Go back one year, and it was 34-28. Would have both been in the 30s if ATL didn't choke the 2H.

 

So almost 3x in 7 years doesn't seem that rare. 

[chad72]

7 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

I would be surprised if Thomas was not available at pick 1.15. I would ne equally surprised if the Colts selected him there . I would think if the 3 top Wrs and Bowers are gone at 15 , they go for one of the top 3 cbs. That would be Mitchell , Arnold and Wiggins.  They could then trade up a bit in round 2 and get a nice WR.  

 

 

Hey, Brady beat Mahomes by spreading it around with Edelman and Gronk and his RBs with clock control, and Burrow did the same with Chase and Higgins and company too. So, if you want to beat the best, give AR enough weapons to spread it around to beat them to play "keep away" if necessary against the best QBs. We have seen that story played out vs Peyton Manning before, the "keep away" game.

 

That is why it is important to give AR plenty of quality outlets and for that reason, a Brian Thomas Jr. would be more valuable than a top corner. Again, Ballard drafts for what that player can become and there is a ceiling with Brian Thomas Jr. in this passing league that would equate him to the best corner that would be available at No.15, IMO, and when you consider our defensive system that isn't dependent on a lockdown man CB most of the time, to me Brian Thomas Jr. is the guy if Bowers is not available.

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

I mean...it happened in the 2023 SB as well with KC and PHI.  Go back one year, and it was 34-28. Would have both been in the 30s if ATL didn't choke the 2H.

 

So almost 3x in 7 years doesn't seem that rare. 

 

True but in all cases, having the QB and offensive versatility (OL/skill positions) to play all styles is the key, shootout or not. No D, however good, can be on the field for too long. That example of ATL is a clear one where the Patriots had ran a LOT of plays but without points to show for it and it caught up in the 4th qtr. when the ATL D was gassed.

[shasta519]

17 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I looked this up the other day and meant to post about it, but forgot. Pittman's agent has some heavy hitters on his roster. One of the biggest -- Deshaun Watson. He has several other guys who were or are the highest paid at their positions -- Derwin James, Jalen Ramsey, Michael Thomas, etc. Tee Higgins is one of his clients, so are Justin Fields, Xavier McKinney, and Micah Parsons.. So he'll be busy this offseason.

 

The Colts have worked with him before. Eric Ebron, Malik Hooker. When Ballard says he's a good agent, I see why.

 

I don't think any of that means anything about Pittman, but this agent has dealt with high profile departures, and doesn't seem like the type of guy to leave anything on the table if he doesn't have to. 

 

https://fanspo.com/nfl/agents/david-mulugheta/45657

 

This is great context. Was not aware that MPJ and Higgins had the same agent. Makes sense that both WRs made it through their rookie deals to ultimately get the tag.

 

But IND's situation is far less murky than CIN, who have Burrow's mega contract and an impending massive deal with Chase to work around, so Higgins making it to the tag makes more sense.

 

MPJ doing so is an outlier, both in how the position has trended and how the Colts have handled every other prominent upcoming UFA.  So something is keeping MPJ from signing and I am not sure it is something that can be resolved in a matter of days, but we will see.

 

 

[shasta519]

3 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

True but in all cases, having the QB and offensive versatility (OL/skill positions) to play all styles is the key, shootout or not. No D, however good, can be on the field for too long. That example of ATL is a clear one where the Patriots had ran a LOT of plays but without points to show for it and it caught up in the 4th qtr. when the ATL D was gassed.

 

I think KC/TB was probably going to be closer to a shootout until KC's bookend Ts both went down the week before and they couldn't protect Mahomes at all.

 

But I think it's long been have a great offense and QB play first. Then you layer in an above average defense that can make some plays. I think you can also win with a great QB, above average offense and great defense. But if you have a great QB already, the goal should be a great offense.

[throwing BBZ]

3 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Hey, Brady beat Mahomes by spreading it around with Edelman and Gronk and his RBs with clock control, and Burrow did the same with Chase and Higgins and company too. So, if you want to beat the best, give AR enough weapons to spread it around to beat them to play "keep away" if necessary against the best QBs. We have seen that story played out vs Peyton Manning before, the "keep away" game.

 

That is why it is important to give AR plenty of quality outlets and for that reason, a Brian Thomas Jr. would be more valuable than a top corner. Again, Ballard drafts for what that player can become and there is a ceiling with Brian Thomas Jr. in this passing league that would equate him to the best corner that would be available at No.15, IMO, and when you consider our defensive system that isn't dependent on a lockdown man CB most of the time, to me Brian Thomas Jr. is the guy if Bowers is not available.

 

 To me, this off seasons top priority should be to have the offense loaded for bear. Yes get the balanced attack weapons on the roster so they can grow together, and I absolutely want a more physical RG. 

[BProland85]

16 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

I would be surprised if Thomas was not available at pick 1.15. I would ne equally surprised if the Colts selected him there . I would think if the 3 top Wrs and Bowers are gone at 15 , they go for one of the top 3 cbs. That would be Mitchell , Arnold and Wiggins.  They could then trade up a bit in round 2 and get a nice WR.  

 

I would prefer an explosive and potential elite playmaker on offense to help out Richardson round 1 over a corner who may not grade as highly. This offseason needs to be about making sure Richardson is successful in 2024 and that he’s surrounded by talent. You can find good corners in rounds 3 and 4. A few guys that come to mind are Khyree Jackson, Caelen Carson, Cam Hart, and Jarrion Jones. 

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

This is great context. Was not aware that MPJ and Higgins had the same agent. Makes sense that both WRs made it through their rookie deals to ultimately get the tag.

 

But IND's situation is far less murky than CIN, who have Burrow's mega contract and an impending massive deal with Chase to work around, so Higgins making it to the tag makes more sense.

 

MPJ doing so is an outlier, both in how the position has trended and how the Colts have handled every other prominent upcoming UFA.  So something is keeping MPJ from signing and I am not sure it is something that can be resolved in a matter of days, but we will see.

 

I'm just taking MPJ at his word. He said he wanted to see what's out there, but would not be displeased with being tagged. He also said the tag can be used to work toward a long term deal. So I don't think there's any indication that he doesn't want to be a Colt, or that there's a hang-up somewhere between him and the team. There could be, but it seems like he was willing to play out his contract and get to this point, then decide what the best option is. 

 

I think his agent can speak to what other teams would be willing to pay. He has clients with the Giants, Panthers, Chiefs, Cardinals, Steelers, Bears, Ravens, Browns, Rams, etc., a bunch of teams that either have cap space or would want a WR. I also think the Colts have a legitimate offer on the table, and based on their track record, it's probably not a lowball. 

 

Also, MPJ has already shown a willingness to play with one year on his contract, for $3m. He might be okay with playing on the tag for $22m, and then again for $26m, and then going to free agency at 28 years old. 

 

All speculation on my part. I guess we'll see what happens, but I'm not freaking out about it.

[stitches]

For whatever it's worth in previous interviews MPJ seemed to be of the mind that franchise tag is not ideal, but he was viewing it as part of the process, either towards signing long-term contract or as a temporary solution for the current year. He didn't seem like he was willing to do anything extraordinary like JT did(i.e. my impression was that he would just play on the tag if it came down to it)... but then again... JT was saying similar things just months before he decided to sit out ... so who knows?