Update: Colts signing Michael Pittman Jr to three year contract

[w87r]

If Pittman wants to leave, he will get offered an offer sheet, as long as he doesn't sign it, the compensation can be less than (2) 1st 

 

Once he signs the offer sheet it is (2) 1st, which no one is going to do, and the Colts are easily going to not match.

 

 

If Pittman is adamant about wanting to play elsewhere, a trade for less than (2) 1st will be made without the offer sheet being signed.

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

It’s not the exclusive tag so yes there is a chance. What happens if bills or chiefs come calling and he says I want out. 

You say - cool, where's your offer sheet? If he gives you an offer sheet signed by the Bills or the Chiefs you get their next 2 1st round picks... 

[richard pallo]

3 minutes ago, w87r said:

If Pittman wants to leave, he will get offered an offer sheet, as long as he doesn't sign it, the compensation can be less than (2) 1st 

 

Once he signs the offer sheet it is (2) 1st, which no one is going to do, and the Colts are easily going to not match.

 

 

If Pittman is adamant about wanting to play elsewhere, a trade for less than (2) 1st will be made without the offer sheet being signed.

Let’s hope he signs the offer sheet.

[Solid84]

Can’t say I’m surprised. Still expect a deal to get done. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I will say Ballard would probably never trade Pittman for less than those two firsts. So I do get that. 

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5 minutes ago, w87r said:

If Pittman wants to leave, he will get offered an offer sheet, as long as he doesn't sign it, the compensation can be less than (2) 1st 

 

Once he signs the offer sheet it is (2) 1st, which no one is going to do, and the Colts are easily going to not match.

 

 

If Pittman is adamant about wanting to play elsewhere, a trade for less than (2) 1st will be made without the offer sheet being signed.

That's the thing... what's the point of an unsigned offer sheet? Does it serve ANY purpose whatsoever? Lets say the Chiefs sign the offer sheet but Pittman doesn't sign it... he comes to the Colts and says what exactly? Look at this - a team is giving me this type of money? Give it to me or.... what? I will sign the offer sheet? What is the incentive for the Colts to negotiate with the Chiefs for ANYTHING LOWER THAN 2 1st round picks? If they have already signed that offer sheet, the Colts incentive is to actually make Pittman sign it. 

[GoColts8818]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-how-to-keep-nfl-players-out-of-free-agency-everything-to-know-about-franchise-transition-tags/
 

good write up of how the tag situation works.  Yes Pittman can talk to other teams but if someone signs him the Colts have five days to match or they get two first round picks.  Reminder teams could have done this with Lamar Jackson last year and didn’t because giving up two first round picks was deemed too high of a cost.  No one is paying that for a WR in today’s NFL.  Also, no one has successfully done this since 2000 for any franchised player.  It doesn’t happen.  The Colts know this which is why they didn’t use the exclusive tag because that would have upped Pittman’s value even more and why pay more than they have too?
 

Pittman is going to be a Colt.  This is a negotiation tactic on his part to get as much money as he can from the Colts by saying hey you thought I was worth franchise tagging so my long term contract needs to reflect that.  He’s been laying the ground work for this back to when he said he wanted to test the market officially but if you listen to anything else he says he talks about how much he loves playing for the Colts and the city of Indianapolis.  He knows he’s going to be a Colt and wants to be a Colt he also just wants to get paid to do it.
 

Ballard knows this too and knew it last week when he said the franchise tag is a tool.  He knows this part of the game.  There was at least one report they were close.  This is going to get done.  It might not happen right away because this does buy Ballard time to focus on guys like Grover if they want to keep him but this is going to happen sooner or later.  

[ColtStrong2013]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

That's the thing... what's the point of an unsigned offer sheet? Does it serve ANY purpose whatsoever? Lets say the Chiefs sign the offer sheet but Pittman doesn't sign it... he comes to the Colts and says what exactly? Look at this - a team is giving me this type of money? Give it to me or.... what? I will sign the offer sheet? What is the incentive for the Colts to negotiate with the Chiefs for ANYTHING LOWER THAN 2 1st round picks? If they have already signed that offer sheet, the Colts incentive is to actually make Pittman sign it. 

I don’t see a team ever offering more than market value as well as picks… If anything it would be Pittman wanting to go to the chiefs on equal or less money and the chiefs wanting him to negotiate for them. It’s a laughable scenario. 
 

Pittman has found himself up against the Colts leverage. And it appears they have the leverage, at least in my eyes. He can threaten to sit out like JT did. And the colts can laugh as he isn’t the same player that JT is. Not with the receiver strength in this draft. That would be hard to swallow watching your team play hardball back and drafting your replacement while you sit on the sidelines. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

14 minutes ago, w87r said:

If Pittman wants to leave, he will get offered an offer sheet, as long as he doesn't sign it, the compensation can be less than (2) 1st 

 

Once he signs the offer sheet it is (2) 1st, which no one is going to do, and the Colts are easily going to not match.

 

 

If Pittman is adamant about wanting to play elsewhere, a trade for less than (2) 1st will be made without the offer sheet being signed.

I am hopeful Ballard would not trade him for less and just match it. We have seen teams pay way over what they should to get a player so o think there is just a lot of mistrust still with Ballard.

[csmopar]

44 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Pittman is the best WR on the market. This is a huge mistake by the colts.

Letting your best WR walk is a huge mistake.  There is no one in FA that we can sign to replace him.

Tell us you don’t know what the non-exclusive tag does without saying it

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Does anyone know how many of the tags given out today were exclusive or non exclusive.

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I am hopeful Ballard would not trade him for less and just match it. We have seen teams pay way over what they should to get a player so o think there is just a lot of mistrust still with Ballard.

It’s genius. Someone actually signs Pittman, we got two 1sts, we package those to trade up for Marv 2.0. Problem solved

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Does anyone know how many of the tags given out today were exclusive or non exclusive.

Roughly 5

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

Tell us you don’t know what the non-exclusive tag does without saying it

I know what it means. Anytime you let a player talk to another team your risking losing that player.

[throwing BBZ]

 

 The Chiefs would be giving up 2 late 1sts (= to high 2nds most years) and could structure it cap friendly for a couple years.

 I really like Pitt, but, with this draft, I would let him go.

[csmopar]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I know what it means. Anytime you let a player talk to another team your risking losing that player.

Yes but it’ll cost two firsts. So oh well. An extra first in this draft would be HUGE. 

[smittywerb]

Meh, he said he wanted to test the market.  Let him go see what his market is.  I think he’s going to be humbled.

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4 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I don’t see a team ever offering more than market value as well as picks… If anything it would be Pittman wanting to go to the chiefs on equal or less money and the chiefs wanting him to negotiate for them. It’s a laughable scenario. 
 

Pittman has found himself up against the Colts leverage. And it appears they have the leverage, at least in my eyes. He can threaten to sit out like JT did. And the colts can laugh as he isn’t the same player that JT is. Not with the receiver strength in this draft. That would be hard to swallow watching your team play hardball back and drafting your replacement while you sit on the sidelines. 

The worst thing is that Ballard has already set the precedent that he would give in and sign a player who sits out, Sure, Taylor made the situation much uglier than what I expect Pittman to do but I actually think this is not out of the question scenario. I think it's possible Pittman sits out. Possible but unlikely, at least taking into account what he's said about the franchise tag before. But then again... Taylor had similar statements and then showed he was ready to make things VERY UGLY in order to get what he wants... so... 

[chad72]

15 minutes ago, stitches said:

That's the thing... what's the point of an unsigned offer sheet? Does it serve ANY purpose whatsoever? Lets say the Chiefs sign the offer sheet but Pittman doesn't sign it... he comes to the Colts and says what exactly? Look at this - a team is giving me this type of money? Give it to me or.... what? I will sign the offer sheet? What is the incentive for the Colts to negotiate with the Chiefs for ANYTHING LOWER THAN 2 1st round picks? If they have already signed that offer sheet, the Colts incentive is to actually make Pittman sign it. 

 

It will clearly show Ballard an unhappy Pittman and over $2-3 mil. per year, is Ballard willing to go the distance when Pittman shows him an unsigned offer sheet? That is what Ballard needs to think about. Is that what he wants in a critical year for him and AR to hit the ground running?

 

Pittman's prime years for earning will diminish, after this first 4 or 5 year contract, whatever it is. So, I would have to lean towards the player. If Ballard wants to pay $20 mil. and Pittman shows an offer sheet for $23 mil., I will at least try to meet closer to $23 mil. to please the player if I value him and my homegrown player promoting mantra.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

Yes but it’ll cost two firsts. So oh well. An extra first in this draft would be HUGE. 

As you can read above no it doesn’t always mean that. 

[ColtStrong2013]

Just now, stitches said:

The worst thing is that Ballard has already set the precedent that he would give in and sign a player who sits out, Sure, Taylor made the situation much uglier than what I expect Pittman to do but I actually think this is not out of the question scenario. I think it's possible Pittman sits out. Possible but unlikely, at least taking into account what he's said about the franchise tag before. But then again... Taylor had similar statements and then showed he was ready to make things VERY UGLY in order to get what he wants... so... 

 

Yeah but the difference was a significant amount of money. Taylor was in the final year of his contract, and was looking to a totally different market this offseason that he was up against. It was the best play for him and it worked out. 

For Pittman, who many on this forum don't view as a true WR1, and that can play for almost as much guaranteed money on the tag than JT's entire contract is worth... and a draft that is receiver heavy, it's not the same situation.

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Does anyone know how many of the tags given out today were exclusive or non exclusive.

Exclusive is almost always used on QBs.  I can't remember the last time a non qb got an Exclusive tag

[Hoose]

I think it’s safe to say that no team is going to offer a $25 m/year 4-5 yr contract with a huge guarantee and then give up two first round picks. Pitt isn’t worth that and frankly, no WR is. 
What this does is allow Pitt and the Colts the time to see how the market evolves for the rest of the free agent WRs and then work out a deal. This way, Pitt ensures he doesn’t  sign for less than the going rate, while the Colts safely retain his rights. 
I fully expect a deal to be finalized before training camp, and hopefully well before then. 

[w87r]

10 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Let’s hope he signs the offer sheet.

He won't.  No team is going to give us (2) 1st for him.

 

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

That's the thing... what's the point of an unsigned offer sheet? Does it serve ANY purpose whatsoever? Lets say the Chiefs sign the offer sheet but Pittman doesn't sign it... he comes to the Colts and says what exactly? Look at this - a team is giving me this type of money? Give it to me or.... what? I will sign the offer sheet? What is the incentive for the Colts to negotiate with the Chiefs for ANYTHING LOWER THAN 2 1st round picks? If they have already signed that offer sheet, the Colts incentive is to actually make Pittman sign it. 

It is all going to come down to what Pittman wants, if he wants to leave and tells us that, we will work out the trade.

 

Think everyone is taking the term offer sheet to far, it's literally just them talking and agreeing on parameters for the deal. Then a trade can be facilitated. No team is going to put an official offer sheet out there to be signed for Pittman, to risky. If it was Brian Burns, sure, Pittman, not happening. It will just be the potential extension discussed, that he will sign once trade goes through.(He will have to sign our tag before he could be traded)

 

What incentive do the Colts have to work out a deal?

 

First off, and most importantly, they would be getting good compensation for a player that doesn't want to be here.(he would of made that known at this point).

Second, to touch on that last part above, we will have $21.8m tied up until he signs the tender and is moved(if that's the course of action). 

 

 

 

This is no different than the J'Narius Snead tag and trade possiblity. Everyone is wrapped up on the (2) 1st, the parties will all agree on a trade package.

 

Again if talking about Lamar Jackson, or even Burns you aren't accepting less than the (2) 1st. Probably working out the trade to include more(Burns received trade offer of 3 1st)

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 The Chiefs would be giving up 2 late 1sts (= to high 2nds most years) and could structure it cap friendly for a couple years.

 I really like Pitt, but, with this draft, I would let him go.

The Chiefs aren't giving up 2 firsts

7 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I know what it means. Anytime you let a player talk to another team your risking losing that player.

Not really.   The Colts hold the cards

[w87r]

8 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Does anyone know how many of the tags given out today were exclusive or non exclusive.

All non exclusive, exclusive tag is rarely ever given out 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

The Chiefs aren't giving up 2 firsts

 

The Chiefs won with a pretty average set of receivers after losing Ty Hill. They will value those picks and continuing to build the o-line and defense in the draft with Mahomes contract. Ballard spoke about that quite a bit the other day. 

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Exclusive is almost always used on QBs.  I can't remember the last time a non qb got an Exclusive tag

Higgins was just tagged as exclusive, a couple RBs were last year. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, w87r said:

All non exclusive, exclusive tag is rarely ever given out 

Well that’s good to know then. 
 

Likd I said the biggest worry for me is he requests a trade after seeing the offers. I am pretty sure Ballard would say no.

 

[w87r]

11 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Tell us you don’t know what the non-exclusive tag does without saying it

Can say that about most the post I've seen.

[jvan1973]

Just now, csmopar said:

Higgins was just tagged as exclusive, a couple RBs were last year. 

No,  that's not accurate. 

[csmopar]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

No,  that's not accurate. 

Sorry, I got it backwards. You are correct 

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

The Chiefs won with a pretty average set of receivers after losing Ty Hill. They will value those picks and continuing to build the o-line and defense in the draft with Mahomes contract. Ballard spoke about that quite a bit the other day. 

 

Yep, I can have 4 elite WRs but if I can't protect my QB, nothing matters. You can't play 14 vs 11 on the field, you know, just 11 on 11 . Football is the ultimate team sport, have to account for all your weaknesses while fortifying strengths. 

 

I am not worried about Pittman, he will get signed by the Colts, it will get done. Polian tagged Freeney before he got signed. This is usual business for most teams.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Well that’s good to know then. 
 

Likd I said the biggest worry for me is he requests a trade after seeing the offers. I am pretty sure Ballard would say no.

 

If they had no plans to get a return for his skills they would have used the transition tag.  They used the non exclusive tag because they see him as a big asset.   He either plays here next year or the Colts get some good picks in return. 

[GoColts8818]

12 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Does anyone know how many of the tags given out today were exclusive or non exclusive.

Zero exclusive tags because teams know they don’t have too because teams aren’t giving up two first round picks to sign a player and if you put the exclusive tag on a player it really ups the cost for the player you are trying to sign and no NFL team wants to pay more than they have too.  There is also zero incentive once you’ve tagged a player to take less than two first round picks for a player even if they want out and are trying to force a trade.  If another team wants him you just say then sign him and we’ll take your two first round picks please.  

[richard pallo]

Hard to imagine any team offering Pittman more than what the Colts were offering him.  Ballard overpays his own for the most part.

[w87r]

4 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Well that’s good to know then. 
 

Likd I said the biggest worry for me is he requests a trade after seeing the offers. I am pretty sure Ballard would say no.

 

Does Ballard seem like the type of guy that will keep a guy that doesn't want to be here?

 

Like I said if that's what Pittman wants to leave, discussions will be had and a trade will come together for something less than (2) 1st. Is that a (1st and 4th, 1st and 3rd, or 2nd and 3rd) idk? 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just the signing we have been waiting for.

 

 

[stitches]

Just now, w87r said:

Does Ballard seem like the type of guy that will keep a guy that doesn't want to be here?

 

Like I said if that's what Pittman wants to leave, discussions will be had and a trade will come together for something less than (2) 1st. Is that a (1st and 4th, 1st and 3rd, or 2nd and 3rd) idk? 

He kept Taylor... 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, w87r said:

Does Ballard seem like the type of guy that will keep a guy that doesn't want to be here?

 

Like I said if that's what Pittman wants to leave, discussions will be had and a trade will come together for something less than (2) 1st. Is that a (1st and 4th, 1st and 3rd, or 2nd and 3rd) idk? 

Well we kind of have precedent with Taylor.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Just the signing we have been waiting for.

 

 

Super Bowl here the Colts come!