Downs and Pittman both on track for 1k yards

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I think Downs might actually be our leading receiver by years end. Was Harrison and Wayne last time this has happened. Slowly Ballard is getting the WR group right. They are a good compliment for each other.

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I think Downs might actually be our leading receiver by years end. Was Harrison and Wayne last time this has happened. Slowly Ballard is getting the WR group right. They are a good compliment for each other.

Ehhh downs yes, Pittman gets most of his yards in one or two series and then completely disappears the rest of the game

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Ehhh downs yes, Pittman gets most of his yards in one or two series and then completely disappears the rest of the game

You don’t get 1k yards by disappearing. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Ehhh downs yes, Pittman gets most of his yards in one or two series and then completely disappears the rest of the game

Pittman would be on track for his third 1k yard season had that disaster not of happened last season. He was very close.

[holeymoley99]

Pittman is getting yac this season that he has never done before, Downs is a great check down slot wr (Better then Campbell ever was already). 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, holeymoley99 said:

Pittman is getting yac this season that he has never done before, Downs is a great check down slot wr (Better then Campbell ever was already). 

Pittman as always been good at YAC.

[indyagent17]

I hope you realize that in a 17 game season it’s only 57 yards per game. 1,000 in a season is not what it used to be 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

I hope you realize that in a 17 game season it’s only 57 yards per game. 1,000 in a season is not what it used to be 

That’s still consistency. If it’s so east why doesn’t every receiver get it. Some of you really have it out for the guy.

[csmopar]

46 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

You don’t get 1k yards by disappearing. 

You realize all he needs to do is average around 60 yards a game and he hits 1000 right? Go find me a game where Pittman takes over a game. I’ll wait. No, what happens is exactly as I said, he has 1, maybe two good series and then goes poof, sham shield e4 mafia never to be seen again until the end of the game

 

don’t get me wrong, Pittman is a solid WR, a good number two,  it frankly, he’s not a guy that keeps DCs up at night worrying about defending. Every contending team has at least one of those types of WRs. We don’t. 

[Dingus McGirt]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

You realize all he needs to do is average around 60 yards a game and he hits 1000 right? Go find me a game where Pittman takes over a game. I’ll wait. No, what happens is exactly as I said, he has 1, maybe two good series and then goes poof, sham shield e4 mafia never to be seen again until the end of the game

 

don’t get me wrong, Pittman is a solid WR, a good number two,  it frankly, he’s not a guy that keeps DCs up at night worrying about defending. Every contending team has at least one of those types of WRs. We don’t. 

Love the E4 reference!  :^)

[Scott Pennock]

25 minutes ago, csmopar said:

You realize all he needs to do is average around 60 yards a game and he hits 1000 right? Go find me a game where Pittman takes over a game. I’ll wait. No, what happens is exactly as I said, he has 1, maybe two good series and then goes poof, sham shield e4 mafia never to be seen again until the end of the game

 

don’t get me wrong, Pittman is a solid WR, a good number two,  it frankly, he’s not a guy that keeps DCs up at night worrying about defending. Every contending team has at least one of those types of WRs. We don’t. 

I don't think there are enough folks on here that understand what the E-4 Mafia is nor the sham shield...........lol

[Solid84]

6 hours ago, holeymoley99 said:

Pittman is getting yac this season that he has never done before, Downs is a great check down slot wr (Better then Campbell ever was already). 

I don’t know about that. His Yards after catch per reception is 5.3 this season, with his career average being 4.6. His best was 2020 with Rivers - 7.4. 

[Solid84]

6 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

That’s still consistency. If it’s so east why doesn’t every receiver get it. Some of you really have it out for the guy.

Some of it is down to targets as well. Pittman has 73 targets so far this season. Downs has 53. 
 

Anyone can get 1000 yards if they have enough targets. Yards alone isn’t really a good way of measuring WR quality. 

[smittywerb]

7 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

I hope you realize that in a 17 game season it’s only 57 yards per game. 1,000 in a season is not what it used to be 

exactly, getting 1k yards in this era is honestly not that spectacular as it used to be.  With the changes in rules and added game, like you said, 57yds/game isn’t great.

 

thats why I look at average yards per catch, average yards per throw, and touchdowns.  I feel like that’s a better way to tell if a receiver is impacting the game or not.

[smittywerb]

I don’t know why we colts fans are so enamored with stats.  Downs honestly is our BEST receiver right now.  The fact that he has comparable stats to Pittman and has 20 less targets shows the difference in impact on the field. 

Happy to see both are productive however.  I was just chiming in on the convo above.  Still think that if we could somehow trade for a WR1 (I would love to get Terry McLaurin) or draft one (MHJ) I’d be ok with letting Pittman walk.  Downs has shown me that he can be a very good WR2 this year and hopefully grow into a WR1.

[csmopar]

7 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

I don't think there are enough folks on here that understand what the E-4 Mafia is nor the sham shield...........lol

Oh I know

[Knuckles79]

9 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

I hope you realize that in a 17 game season it’s only 57 yards per game. 1,000 in a season is not what it used to be 

 

1 hour ago, smittywerb said:

exactly, getting 1k yards in this era is honestly not that spectacular as it used to be.  With the changes in rules and added game, like you said, 57yds/game isn’t great.

 

thats why I look at average yards per catch, average yards per throw, and touchdowns.  I feel like that’s a better way to tell if a receiver is impacting the game or not.

I would agree on the way the games played being a factor but saying it's only 57 yards per game versus 62.5 yards avg. doesn't discredit the 1000 yard as much.

[K-148]

1 hour ago, smittywerb said:

I don’t know why we colts fans are so enamored with stats.  Downs honestly is our BEST receiver right now.  The fact that he has comparable stats to Pittman and has 20 less targets shows the difference in impact on the field. 

Happy to see both are productive however.  I was just chiming in on the convo above.  Still think that if we could somehow trade for a WR1 (I would love to get Terry McLaurin) or draft one (MHJ) I’d be ok with letting Pittman walk.  Downs has shown me that he can be a very good WR2 this year and hopefully grow into a WR1.

Sorry, I can't understand you. If we could trade OR draft WR1, you would let Pittman walk, right? So we would have that 1 WR1 (signed or drafted), Downs and... who? Pierce? Dulin? And if that WR1 or Downs would be injured? Suspended? Have down year? If Downs get sophomore slump? Even if we are lucky, only 2 good WR's will not keep DC's up at night also.

[Defjamz26]

Pittman is getting all his yards after the catch. If you watch all the time he catches a pass, it’s always underneath stuff that’s manufactured to get him in space where he can just run up field. It’s not even that’s he’s a great YAC receiver like AJ Brown, Hill, etc… it’s just a lot of plays designed for him to catch the ball underneath on crossing routes so he can keep running in stride.

 

The Colts still need a down the field receiver who can win on the outside.

[DougDew]

24 minutes ago, K-148 said:

Sorry, I can't understand you. If we could trade OR draft WR1, you would let Pittman walk, right? So we would have that 1 WR1 (signed or drafted), Downs and... who? Pierce? Dulin? And if that WR1 or Downs would be injured? Suspended? Have down year? If Downs get sophomore slump? Even if we are lucky, only 2 good WR's will not keep DC's up at night also.

Context of price. Everybody would accept Pitt returning in that secondary wr role.  But that wr job pays about 10 million a year. Imo.   Pitt will want more and will be paid more by another team.   

That reality is the context behind the idea of letting him walk.  

[K-148]

I think, it's ok to design play for player strength or to hide his weakness. Nobody says Pittman is the best in the league, even in his category. He happens to be 1 of 2 our best WR's and rest of our WR's are not even close. Since no one can garantie long term success of signed or drafted player, Pittman should stay.

[K-148]

It's overpay situation for the Colts. We need all WR's we can get ASAP. Not pretty for sure, let's rework contract later.

[smittywerb]

39 minutes ago, K-148 said:

Sorry, I can't understand you. If we could trade OR draft WR1, you would let Pittman walk, right? So we would have that 1 WR1 (signed or drafted), Downs and... who? Pierce? Dulin? And if that WR1 or Downs would be injured? Suspended? Have down year? If Downs get sophomore slump? Even if we are lucky, only 2 good WR's will not keep DC's up at night also.

I would assume the walking of Pittman would result in a significant upgrade, otero wise it’s better to just keep him.  A trade being instant while drafting one takes time for the pick to develop unless he’s like a jamarr chase and he’s good instantly.  I’m thinking down the line honestly.  If Ballard is seriously building this team, I’d hope if we let Pitt walk and bring his replacement in, we’d look to bring another stud in to pair with downs and the replacement.  We can fill in the other 2 receivers with Pierce and maybe someone else.

 

WR1: Possible trade (ex. Terry Mclaurin) or bonafide draft pick (ex. MHJ)

WR2:  someone down the line or another trade or FA

Slot: Downs

 

thats a good trio and better than the trio that we have and possibly cheaper depending on what happens

 

In a sense, it’s similar to what the Vikings did with diggs.  People thought they were crazy for letting him go in 2019, but then they realized JJ was him and got him in 2020.   We could possibly follow something similar if we let Pittman go and get MHJ, Ebukam, etc.  

[smittywerb]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Context of price. Everybody would accept Pitt returning in that secondary wr role.  But that wr job pays about 10 million a year. Imo.   Pitt will want more and will be paid more by another team.   

That reality is the context behind the idea of letting him walk.  

Bingo.  If we can’t trade for someone who’s proven, replace him with someone who most likely to become better than he is.  We add talent and save money at the same time.

 

of course this is just me hoping and wishing.  If all else fails, just pay him lol

[smittywerb]

53 minutes ago, Knuckles79 said:

 

I would agree on the way the games played being a factor but saying it's only 57 yards per game versus 62.5 yards avg. doesn't discredit the 1000 yard as much.

it does if we’re talking about potentially having to pay someone +$25mill a year.  Being realistic, every wide receiver have their good games and bad games.  But saying someone is great because they get 1k yards doesn’t hold the same weight as it used to.  Pittman is consistent, that is true. 

[DougDew]

18 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

Bingo.  If we can’t trade for someone who’s proven, replace him with someone who most likely to become better than he is.  We add talent and save money at the same time.

Downs has come to the nfl being very reliable as a rookie.   He’ showing that there doesn’t have to be delayed gratification if the right traits are identified on tape.  As a process, RAS and "ceiling" have delayed gratification built in.  

[K-148]

So now it's 2 transactions: 1st to replace Pittman, 2nd to get another one WR. I'm all for ger another WR, so we discuss 1st part of the plan. Colts know everything about Pittman: health, dedication, knowledge of the game, so, everything. And now you want Colts to replace Pittman, who wants to get paid, with WR, who wants to get paid and overpaid also!!! And Colts know much less about that player and HOPE that he can be as good as Pittman for less money. Hm, sounds like a plan to me...

[smittywerb]

3 minutes ago, K-148 said:

So now it's 2 transactions: 1st to replace Pittman, 2nd to get another one WR. I'm all for ger another WR, so we discuss 1st part of the plan. Colts know everything about Pittman: health, dedication, knowledge of the game, so, everything. And now you want Colts to replace Pittman, who wants to get paid, with WR, who wants to get paid and overpaid also!!! And Colts know much less about that player and HOPE that he can be as good as Pittman for less money. Hm, sounds like a plan to me...

 

im down for overpaying if said wide receiver is a bonafide WR1.  You just have to.  As I said above, if we can’t get that player, then we pay Pittman.  But we have to at least try.  I don’t see us keeping Pittman and paying another stud wide receiver.  

[K-148]

We have rookie 1st round QB, injured in his 1st season as a pro. QB, who did not start a lot in college. We have WR, known for his consistency, durability and production. I don't want another Funchess-like sign. Enough cheap decisions.

[holeymoley99]

4 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I don’t know about that. His Yards after catch per reception is 5.3 this season, with his career average being 4.6. His best was 2020 with Rivers - 7.4. 

His 2 seasons as a full time starter he avg  4.0 then 3.6 as you said he is all the way up at 5.3 this season. His 7.4 was a part time starter with only 40 catches entire season so very limited sample.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I started this thread because I thought it was cool we will have 2 1k yard receivers but I see it has turned into a Pittman trashing thread.

[Indyfan4life]

8 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I started this thread because I thought it was cool we will have 2 1k yard receivers but I see it has turned into a Pittman trashing thread.

You should know better than to have high expectations here. 

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, holeymoley99 said:

His 2 seasons as a full time starter he avg  4.0 then 3.6 as you said he is all the way up at 5.3 this season. His 7.4 was a part time starter with only 40 catches entire season so very limited sample.

It's better sure, but Downs for instance is at 5.4 YAC/REC this season. I think it's more about play design than anything Pittman does.

[KB]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I started this thread because I thought it was cool we will have 2 1k yard receivers but I see it has turned into a Pittman trashing thread.

I've learned only the first half of a page for a new topic is actually good info on the subject. The rest are armchair GMs giving their expert opinion that is almost always trash.

[NorthernColt]

The thing that I've always found really odd with Pittman, is how they use him. They LOVE to use him underneath on drags and mesh concepts which is fine to get him touches. But they rarely ever give him deep shots one on one on the outside. But go look at his college highlights, hell even his top plays in the NFL, he moss's guys. I know hes not a burner, but hes physical he can out reach and get physical at the top. Like a Mike Evans or Mike Williams. Just give him more of those shots every game.

[chad72]

17 minutes ago, NorthernColt said:

The thing that I've always found really odd with Pittman, is how they use him. They LOVE to use him underneath on drags and mesh concepts which is fine to get him touches. But they rarely ever give him deep shots one on one on the outside. But go look at his college highlights, hell even his top plays in the NFL, he moss's guys. I know hes not a burner, but hes physical he can out reach and get physical at the top. Like a Mike Evans or Mike Williams. Just give him more of those shots every game.

 

Bingo. You know who did that, Carson Wentz. He gave Pittman those chances. Rivers hit him in stride more often with his quick release going across.

 

The irony is that both Pittman and Pierce can go up and get those contested chances. So, if they have a sliver of separation, throwing it high for them is actually better than giving them a ground ball. The Colts' QBs need to understand those strengths of our WRs and give them those chances. But Minshew's throw wasn't close enough to Pittman (probably because he didn't have the arm strength to throw a laser there with Pittman turned around) when he threw that INT to Adebo that basically ruined any momentum we had at that point.

[Dingus McGirt]

13 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Love the E4 reference!  :^)

Speaking as a former SP4/SP5.

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Speaking as a former SP4/SP5.

I’ll likely be one again one day, brass don’t like it when I expose how dumb their good ideas actually are

[lester]

14 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

I don't think there are enough folks on here that understand what the E-4 Mafia is nor the sham shield...........lol

 

[sb41champs]

That would be OUTSTANDING - as I have Josh Downs on my fantasy football team - AND - I plan to make a trade for MPJ following our bye week!!