The Current State of the Offensive Line

[NewColtsFan]

25 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I think a solid RG keeps your QB from having to do it all this year and allows him to have a balanced offense 

 

I thought we would have a bad year, but this team, with a running attack could win 8 games

Honestly, I don’t think the Colts want to win 8 games.   I think they want a top-5/10 pick for next years very very attractive 2024 draft.   I think of this year as a semi-tank job. 
 

Look how many spots fans here have spoken out for these last two months.  A veteran RG, a veteran OT,  a veteran CB,  a veteran DB,  a veteran RB.   Each time a poster like @w87r made a list of the top-5 available veteran players.   I don’t believe the Colts signed one of them.  They’ve signed some fringe level guy that might make the PS.    What does that tell you?   It tells me the team wants to play their young players and let them grow.  
 

Remember, someone like Glowinski was a bust when Seattle cut him after 3-4 years.  He only blossomed with the Colts.  Who’s to say Fries couldn’t get better over the course of this season?   He improved last  year, perhaps he improves more this year as well. 
 

Hopefully food for thought…

 

 

[jimmy g]

20 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Honestly, I don’t think the Colts want to win 8 games.   I think they want a top-5/10 pick for next years very very attractive 2024 draft.   I think of this year as a semi-tank job. 
 

Look how many spots fans here have spoken out for these last two months.  A veteran RG, a veteran OT,  a veteran CB,  a veteran DB,  a veteran RB.   Each time a poster like @w87r made a list of the top-5 available veteran players.   I don’t believe the Colts signed one of them.  They’ve signed some fringe level guy that might make the PS.    What does that tell you?   It tells me the team wants to play their young players and let them grow.  
 

Remember, someone like Glowinski was a bust when Seattle cut him after 3-4 years.  He only blossomed with the Colts.  Who’s to say Fries couldn’t get better over the course of this season?   He improved last  year, perhaps he improves more this year as well. 
 

Hopefully food for thought…

 

 

Yesterday surprised me. I had predicted they wouldn’t win a single game, but the whole team played better than I expected.

 

Get AR experienced, get Hull healthy and experienced, add Marvin Harrison Jr in the draft, and next year can be exciting 

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

Yesterday surprised me. I had predicted they wouldn’t win a single game, but the whole team played better than I expected.

 

Get AR experienced, get Hull healthy and experienced, add Marvin Harrison Jr in the draft, and next year can be exciting 

I think getting Harrison is the longest of long shots.   And I love the kid. 
 

But I don’t expect the Colts to be bad enough to draft Harrison.   Nor do I see Ballard trading up to take Harrison who is projected to be a top-5 pick, maybe even top-3. 
 

Harrison would be a great fit for the ‘24 Colts.   But so would an O-tackle or a DE.  And that’s what I think Ballard drafts next April.  

[cdgacoltsfan]

32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Honestly, I don’t think the Colts want to win 8 games.   I think they want a top-5/10 pick for next years very very attractive 2024 draft.   I think of this year as a semi-tank job. 
 

Look how many spots fans here have spoken out for these last two months.  A veteran RG, a veteran OT,  a veteran CB,  a veteran DB,  a veteran RB.   Each time a poster like @w87r made a list of the top-5 available veteran players.   I don’t believe the Colts signed one of them.  They’ve signed some fringe level guy that might make the PS.    What does that tell you?   It tells me the team wants to play their young players and let them grow.  
 

Remember, someone like Glowinski was a bust when Seattle cut him after 3-4 years.  He only blossomed with the Colts.  Who’s to say Fries couldn’t get better over the course of this season?   He improved last  year, perhaps he improves more this year as well. 
 

Hopefully food for thought…

 

 

Thank God you're not on the coaching staff or are a player. Perhaps you never played sports? That , my " friend " is a losers mentality. 

[MikeCurtis]

36 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Honestly, I don’t think the Colts want to win 8 games.   I think they want a top-5/10 pick for next years very very attractive 2024 draft.   I think of this year as a semi-tank job. 
 

Look how many spots fans here have spoken out for these last two months.  A veteran RG, a veteran OT,  a veteran CB,  a veteran DB,  a veteran RB.   Each time a poster like @w87r made a list of the top-5 available veteran players.   I don’t believe the Colts signed one of them.  They’ve signed some fringe level guy that might make the PS.    What does that tell you?   It tells me the team wants to play their young players and let them grow.  
 

Remember, someone like Glowinski was a bust when Seattle cut him after 3-4 years.  He only blossomed with the Colts.  Who’s to say Fries couldn’t get better over the course of this season?   He improved last  year, perhaps he improves more this year as well. 
 

Hopefully food for thought…

 

 

Im not sure, maybe you're right.

 

I think they would lose the likes of some of the vets if they even sniffed that the Colts were tanking

 

I get the sense that Leonard, Buckner,  Stewart and others would seek a trade.  The locker room would be a shambles

 

I think they HAVE to try to win as many games as possible.

 

Not a playoff team, but I dont see the Coaches and key players laying it down this year for a better pick next year

 

Again..... I dont know.... Im an old dude clacking away at the keyboard ..... Im not close enough to see whats going on

 

For me...... Win what you can.....  there are FAs that can help us be more competitive... Fornette and Risner arent going to be expensive.....   The QB learns better (IMHO) if he can be part of a balanced offense

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Thank God you're not on the coaching staff or are a player. Perhaps you never played sports? That , my " friend " is a losers mentality. 

Of course it’s always easier to take yet another cheap shot at me.   But for some reason you can’t seem to explain why the Colts haven’t signed a single quality veteran that the fans here have been screaming for for months.  
 

Where’s the veteran RG, or OT, or CB, or DB, or RB?    Where is that signing?   Feel free to ignore the obvious answers and take another shot at me.   Ignore the facts for your opinion.    Par for the course.  
 

[lester]

9 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Thank God you're not on the coaching staff or are a player. Perhaps you never played sports? That , my " friend " is a losers mentality. 

I don’t take it that NCF is advocating for a losing season, nor is he suggesting that the Colts want to lose. What he is saying is: The Colts recognize their issues but believe the best way to address them in the long run is to play the younger players so they can themselves become vets, instead of short term rentals on available veterans. It does the team no good to have a bunch of replacements in 2 years who don’t have any experience because they didn’t play and grow along side Anthony Richardson. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Im not sure, maybe you're right.

 

I think they would lose the likes of some of the vets if they even sniffed that the Colts were tanking

 

I get the sense that Leonard, Buckner,  Stewart and others would seek a trade.  The locker room would be a shambles

 

I think they HAVE to try to win as many games as possible.

 

Not a playoff team, but I dont see the Coaches and key players laying it down this year for a better pick next year

 

Again..... I dont know.... Im an old dude clacking away at the keyboard ..... Im not close enough to see whats going on

 

For me...... Win what you can.....  there are FAs that can help us be more competitive... Fornette and Risner arent going to be expensive.....   The QB learns better (IMHO) if he can be part of a balanced offense

I think the Colts are trying to do their best.  But when they don’t make one single move for a veteran, what does that say?  
 

And I wouldn’t be surprised if next off-season the Colts consider trading some of the veterans you named.  They’d have even more draft capital for what looks to be a loaded 2024 draft.  

[hoosierhawk]

21 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

21 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think the Colts are trying to do their best.  But when they don’t make one single move for a veteran, what does that say?  
 

And I wouldn’t be surprised if next off-season the Colts consider trading some of the veterans you named.  They’d have even more draft capital for what looks to be a loaded 2024 draft.  

Isn't the bolded a little double talk. You clearly stated that you don't think the Colts want to win 8 games but then you state that you think the Colts are trying to do their best.

Generally agree with most of your posts but this one grabbed me.

 

[richard pallo]

28 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

Yesterday surprised me. I had predicted they wouldn’t win a single game, but the whole team played better than I expected.

 

Get AR experienced, get Hull healthy and experienced, add Marvin Harrison Jr in the draft, and next year can be exciting 

Can you imagine what the Colts would have to pay a team to move up to get Marvin Jr?  An unbelievable ransom.  The entire league knows he would be our number one target for obvious reasons.  They will ask more from us than any other team.  Will they be willing to accommodate us?   Will the Colts overpay?  I would love it if he were to become a Colt but in reality it’s about as long a long shot can be.  I don’t see Ballard paying the price.  He has said it is never about one player.  I don’t see him changing now.  But one can dream that’s for sure.

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

 

The wording may not have been quite right….    But when the Colts haven’t made an off-season move these last two months that the fans have been screaming for, I think it says something.   They’re playing the kids this year hoping they get better. 
 

I think Ballard is happy when his team wins.   So is Steichen.   They’re trying to win within the scope of a game, any game.  

But when the team is not making the moves that one would expect of a team trying to maximize their season,  I think that should tell you something.  
 

By the way, most new head coaches, especially first time head coaches, get 4-5 year contracts.   I believe Steichen got six years.   What that tells me is he knows his first year is going to be a long tough season and likely more losses than wins.  
 

[jimmy g]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Can you imagine what the Colts would have to pay a team to move up to get Marvin Jr?  An unbelievable ransom.  The entire league knows he would be our number one target for obvious reasons.  They will ask more from us than any other team.  Will they be willing to accommodate us?   Will the Colts overpay?  I would love it if he were to become a Colt but in reality it’s about as long a long shot can be.  I don’t see Ballard paying the price.  He has said it is never about one player.  I don’t see him changing now.  But one can dream that’s for sure.

With the 2nd pick (I see Az winning zero, then us next) we can actually trade down to 3 and take Harrison Jr.

 

Other than maybe one game against Houston , who do you see us beating, that you think we have no chance for Jr?

[Hoose]

6 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Can you imagine what the Colts would have to pay a team to move up to get Marvin Jr?  An unbelievable ransom.  The entire league knows he would be our number one target for obvious reasons.  They will ask more from us than any other team.  Will they be willing to accommodate us?   Will the Colts overpay?  I would love it if he were to become a Colt but in reality it’s about as long a long shot can be.  I don’t see Ballard paying the price.  He has said it is never about one player.  I don’t see him changing now.  But one can dream that’s for sure.

It’s not a longshot if their record is terrible. You’re assuming the Colts aren’t one of the three worst teams in the NFL. I’m not hoping or advocating for another 4-13 season, but it could easily happen. And if it does, they may well have a shot at drafting Harrison without giving up a thing. 

[hoosierhawk]

There are some other good WR that will be coming out this year. OSU has another very good WR, Texas has 2 of the top 10. Not saying any are as good as MHJ but there arfe some very good ones. MHJ is a huge WR, moreso than his dad.

[hoosierhawk]

Just read that A-I predicted the Colts record at 6-11 just in front of AZ and Washington. Both may draft QBs and MHJ may fall in our lap!!

[csmopar]

11 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

“it most certainly can be pointed out that even those running sacks were the fault of the OL not holding up and forcing him out of the pocket” 

So back to my original point that I made you’re basically agreeing with me. The Oline played poorly. 

Never said they didn’t. I just said the 4 sacks couldn’t be pinned on any one player is or was my point

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

No team is going to trade away the pick  if marv jr is there.

[AKB]

time to move on from Ryan Kelly. This should be his last year as a colt.

 

We need a starting RG, not a carousel of backups taking their turn.

[GoColts8818]

6 minutes ago, AKB said:

time to move on from Ryan Kelly. This should be his last year as a colt.

 

We need a starting RG, not a carousel of backups taking their turn.

Kelly was fine yesterday.  He graded out the highest in pass blocking yesterday.  Third overall on offense and his run grade was right there with Nelson and Smith for best on the line.  

[OLD FAN MAN]

15 hours ago, PeterBowman said:

Other than the running game being non-existant for various reasons, I thought the o line held up fairly well for the most part in the passing game.

Even on his sacks where AR ran out of bounds he had a decent amount of time to throw. 

until ballard gets receivers  who can get separation the o-line will have a hard time. ar has a quick release so he is not the problem.

[ProblChld32]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

Never said they didn’t. I just said the 4 sacks couldn’t be pinned on any one player is or was my point

I think you confused me pointing out at how bad Fries was as me blaming him for the sacks which is not the case. I’m not putting those sacks on any one player , I said everyone had there moments. I just simply pointed out that Fries was undoubtedly a major weak point on the line. 

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, ProblChld32 said:

I think you confused me pointing out at how bad Fries was as me blaming him for the sacks which is not the case. I’m not putting those sacks on any one player , I said everyone had there moments. I just simply pointed out that Fries was undoubtedly a major weak point on the line. 

I mean the PFF grades back you up.  I don’t think saying Fries is the weak point is that controversial IMO.

[ProblChld32]

4 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I mean the PFF grades back you up.  I don’t think saying Fries is the weak point is that controversial IMO.

Yea I had made that statement prior to even seeing the PFF grades. I went back and watched every offensive snap from the game and just from the tape you could see Fries getting worked . He had a few bright spots , but the bad outweighed the good snaps he had . 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

I think you confused me pointing out at how bad Fries was as me blaming him for the sacks which is not the case. I’m not putting those sacks on any one player , I said everyone had there moments. I just simply pointed out that Fries was undoubtedly a major weak point on the line. 

For what’s it’s worth….   Fries’ grade if roughly 55 is typically what Glowinski graded while with the Colts.   I’m not trying to quibble here, but 55 isn’t a terrible score.   And the other four getting grades in the 70’s is pretty good as well.  
 

A gentle reminder, the OL is typically the last unit to round into shape.   And with a new OL coach, a slow start was to be expected.   The OL didn’t run block well, but it pass blocked pretty well, especially for week one. 
 

[OhioColt]

For what it's worth as fans don't expect too many OL to be available next year in free agency after looking over the upcoming list on Over the Cap.  Last off-season was probably our better chances to land an upgraded OL which obviously didn't work out in our favor.  Depending on the final season and grades etc the draft does offer a couple targets like OL Cooper Beebe (KSU) but have seen him going late in Round 1.  RG Zak Zinter (Michigan) is another option that might be of interest.  Also interested to see if RG Connor Colby (Iowa) declares for the draft and if so his draft process grades.

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, jimmy g said:

With the 2nd pick (I see Az winning zero, then us next) we can actually trade down to 3 and take Harrison Jr.

 

Other than maybe one game against Houston , who do you see us beating, that you think we have no chance for Jr?

Remember, Arizona made a draft day trade  with Houston so the Texans could puck back to back.   So the Cardinal may be in position to pick back to back in 24.   
 

That would put them in position to take the QB of their choice and Harrison.   Lots of moving parts and a very long way to go before we know anything.  

[cdgacoltsfan]

9 hours ago, lester said:

I don’t take it that NCF is advocating for a losing season, nor is he suggesting that the Colts want to lose. What he is saying is: The Colts recognize their issues but believe the best way to address them in the long run is to play the younger players so they can themselves become vets, instead of short term rentals on available veterans. It does the team no good to have a bunch of replacements in 2 years who don’t have any experience because they didn’t play and grow along side Anthony Richardson. 

Well, maybe he shouldnt make comments like " semi tank job" and " don't want to win 8 games" in his opening paragraph. If he'd been actually paying attention the past several years, he would have noticed that not overspending on free agents is Ballard's MO. 

[Pelt]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

But I don’t expect the Colts to be bad enough to draft Harrison.   Nor do I see Ballard trading up to take Harrison who is projected to be a top-5 pick, maybe even top-3.

I'm not even certain Ballard would draft him even if MHJr were there for him to pick.

[DougDew]

Of course, the vet RG will be Braden Smith, which is the reason none were signed.  Its dependent upon how quickly 4th rounder Blake Freeland can channel his inner 3rd rounder Bernard Raimann and "earn" the starting job.  "Earn the job" is relative.

 

If our RG grades only in the mid 50s, all Freeland needs to do is to grade in the 60s, and the future could be sooner than most believe. 

[ShuteAt168]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Honestly, I don’t think the Colts want to win 8 games.   I think they want a top-5/10 pick for next years very very attractive 2024 draft.   I think of this year as a semi-tank job. 
 

Look how many spots fans here have spoken out for these last two months.  A veteran RG, a veteran OT,  a veteran CB,  a veteran DB,  a veteran RB.   Each time a poster like @w87r made a list of the top-5 available veteran players.   I don’t believe the Colts signed one of them.  They’ve signed some fringe level guy that might make the PS.    What does that tell you?   It tells me the team wants to play their young players and let them grow.  
 

Remember, someone like Glowinski was a bust when Seattle cut him after 3-4 years.  He only blossomed with the Colts.  Who’s to say Fries couldn’t get better over the course of this season?   He improved last  year, perhaps he improves more this year as well. 
 

Hopefully food for thought…

 

 

It tells me Ballard is bad at his job, as does 45-53-1. 

(Yes, I know that some posters don’t count CB’s bad years on his record so he actually has a .750 winning percentage) 

[richard pallo]

11 hours ago, Hoose said:

It’s not a longshot if their record is terrible. You’re assuming the Colts aren’t one of the three worst teams in the NFL. I’m not hoping or advocating for another 4-13 season, but it could easily happen. And if it does, they may well have a shot at drafting Harrison without giving up a thing. 

I don’t see the Colts being one of the worst teams in the league.  We have a very strong roster compared to the Arizona type teams in the league.  We upgraded the most important position on the team, quarterback.  Compared to last year’s quarterbacks it’s night and day.  Even with a rookie at the position.  We upgraded other positions as well.  Ebukem and our new kicker come to mind.  We should have no problem winning at least four games.  That is our floor.  I could see eight wins easily.  Heck the Bills, Bengals, and Chargers have already lost.  This league is balanced.  Any given Sunday they say.  For me Harrison is an extreme long shot.  The stars would really have to align.  Would love it but I don’t see it.

[Dingus McGirt]

4-5 weeks from now, the Colts will be a team no one circles as a win.  JMO

[richard pallo]

I have a question.  Does a penalty affect a player’s pff score?  I would think it would.  I ask because both of Fries scores for pass blocking and run blocking were higher than his overall score.  He did incur a penalty that called back a first down run.  As far as I remember he was the only one on the OL to incur a penalty.  Anyone know?

[cdgacoltsfan]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think the Colts are trying to do their best.  But when they don’t make one single move for a veteran, what does that say?  
 

And I wouldn’t be surprised if next off-season the Colts consider trading some of the veterans you named.  They’d have even more draft capital for what looks to be a loaded 2024 draft.  

It's says that there isn't a veteran out there worth the money at a position of need. The other 31 teams have needs too, yet there are plenty of veterans available. 

[Superman]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

The wording may not have been quite right….    But when the Colts haven’t made an off-season move these last two months that the fans have been screaming for, I think it says something.   They’re playing the kids this year hoping they get better. 
 

I think Ballard is happy when his team wins.   So is Steichen.   They’re trying to win within the scope of a game, any game.  

But when the team is not making the moves that one would expect of a team trying to maximize their season,  I think that should tell you something.  
 

By the way, most new head coaches, especially first time head coaches, get 4-5 year contracts.   I believe Steichen got six years.   What that tells me is he knows his first year is going to be a long tough season and likely more losses than wins. 

 

I agree with this sentiment. To push it a step further, I think the roster needs a significant overhaul, at multiple positions. But I don't think it makes sense to start that overhaul until we know that we have a QB. Assuming Richardson turns out to be that guy, the strategy for the rest of the roster should come into focus going into the offseason. If it were me calling the shots, the aggressiveness of that strategy would hinge primarily on a) how good I think Richardson can be, and b) how quickly I think he can be the guy for a contending team.

 

Without those questions answered, it makes sense for the team to be measured with their moves. (It also speaks to the JT/Pittman strategy, but that's a different conversation.) Once we know where we stand at QB, it would make sense to be more aggressive.

 

But it's not me calling the shots. I don't know what Ballard intends to do moving forward, but it's my hope that we get going decisively in 2024. And I'm not sure that Ballard will actually push the way I think he should.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

 For me Harrison is an extreme long shot.  The stars would really have to align.  Would love it but I don’t see it.

With all of this talk about Harrison, is he really regarded as a top 3 pick, with some pretty good QBs coming out?  Or are Colts fans with OSU on TV every week seeing things a little lofty compared to the NFL scouts.?

 

I'm not sure that TE Bowers at UGA isn't a better player.  Positional value aside, I could see where several teams would think a dynamic TE would benefit their team more than another WR.

[csmopar]

15 minutes ago, DougDew said:

With all of this talk about Harrison, is he really regarded as a top 3 pick, with some pretty good QBs coming out?  Or are Colts fans with OSU on TV every week seeing things a little lofty compared to the NFL scouts.?

 

I'm not sure that TE Bowers at UGA isn't a better player.  Positional value aside, I could see where several teams would think a dynamic TE would benefit their team more than another WR.

That’s been my question all along

[Fluke_33]

4 hours ago, Pelt said:

I'm not even certain Ballard would draft him even if MHJr were there for him to pick.

depends on if there is an all-world guard available.  - jk /s 

[Fluke_33]

2 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

4-5 weeks from now, the Colts will be a team no one circles as a win.  JMO

 

As Oddball said to Kelly before agreeing to take on the Tiger tanks, "Crazy, I mean like so many positive waves maybe we can't lose"

[AKB]

20 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Kelly was fine yesterday.  He graded out the highest in pass blocking yesterday.  Third overall on offense and his run grade was right there with Nelson and Smith for best on the line.  

maybe, pff grades are not the end all be all. at the end of the day, you gotta watch the ball. it could very well be that Fries was so bad, that Smith and Kelly are having to compensate, causing them to be a bit delayed. 

 

but to hint that Kelly was the best lineman, or even close to it is not true. Nelson, Raimann, Kelly, Smith, Fries (in that order)

 

Smith definitely got beat on his outside shoulder more than once, probably because he is constantly sliding left, and looking left (the only reason Kelly is above him, overall Smith is the better lineman). What is Kelly's excuse? Our most veteran lineman? He barely gets any push, and often loses in run blocking vs. DTs. Kelly is the 2nd worst on the line, and it isn't even close. 

 

You have to look at all the extra stuff Nelson is doing, pulling right, swinging out right, and running even ahead of our center in the run game. That is not normal. so even if he doesn't grade the highest, he still does a lot for an LG. Also, Jax is strongest on their edges, not up the middle. Kelly probably had the easiest assignment on the line when looking at hat-on-hat football. there is a lot to consider, but I don't see Kelly as a top 10 center, and the fact we took him and he's gone through 7-10 quarterbacks is probably a big reason he returned, plus his leadership role.

 

but looking at overall play? Kelly is not good, maybe 15-18th center.

 

here's your favorite website basically confirming what I just said. the definition of average.

 

"Indianapolis Colts center Ryan Kelly was a Pro Bowl selection from 2019-2021, but he wasn't selected last season. Pro Football Focus (PFF) ranked Kelly as the 16th best center heading into 2023 after a disappointing 2022 campaign." - PFF