So, is the Jeff Saturday experiment over yet?

[AKB]

23 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Wouldn't take much from the preseason. For anyone. Chad looked great in the preseason IIRC lol... 

 

Serious question(s).. Do you think we draft a QB early in the draft?

If we had a brand new GM i would gurantee a QB in the top 5, even if we needed to trade up.  With Ballard, I could see him taking a 2nd round QB.  

 

Or trading for a guy like Love as the "young QB" 

[DougDew]

The oline began improving when Pryor was shown the bench. 

 

Not sure what Saturday has to do with the personnel rotation, other than not trying a next iteration beyond the Raimann/Fries combo he inherited.  And Smith began improving his RT play about week 5.  

 

Raimann's improvement has come as expected.  A talented young man gaining experience and learning his craft.  I would not expect who the HC is has anything to do with it, and there is no tangible evidence that Saturday is doing anything differently than Reich in developing Raimann.  After all, he's got the same oline coach.

 

Sam > Ryan at this point.  About the same decision making with a better arm and better mobility, but Saturday can't figure that out, or has a mission we are not privy too.

 

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

If we had a brand new GM i would gurantee a QB in the top 5, even if we needed to trade up.  With Ballard, I could see him taking a 2nd round QB.  

 

Or trading for a guy like Love as the "young QB" 

 

Sorry, but I don't fault Ballard for the QB retreads. No need to debate though.

IMO, he'll draft a QB in the top 10. 

 

So assuming we draft a QB this year, do you think Sam would be QB2?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Look for Foles to start Monday night. Kevin Bowen said this morning there were wispers that Ryan had a very short leash for Vikings game.

[DougDew]

I like Saturday's personality as a HC.  I never cared for the Dungy/Caldwell/Reich demeanor.  Not that it makes him a better HC, I just prefer to see more human reaction to situations.  I hope Jeff succeeds.

 

But his likability goes nowhere when determining if he has been successful or not so far.  IIRC, the offense was moving the ball in the beginning of the season under Ryan...only being held back by Ryan's costly turnovers...especially fumbles on our side of the field.   He limited the TOs, and we won a few games.  Then got benched after more bad turnovers and Reich figuring out he wasn't really helping the O.   The O has never been great, but its been absolutely terrible under Saturday/Parks....and that's with an oline that's grading better.

 

At this point, I'd rather see Frank re-hired and given total control over personnel for three years than what we have now.  That way, he can at least call plays for players he actually wants instead of having to try to work miracles with the limited plays he can call with Ballard's poor personnel.   As Parks is figuring out.

 

I mean, the epic and historical collapse against MIN was AFTER a Bye-week even.

[shasta519]

10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Look at Rivers years. When he had bad OLs, he had some very bad years. 

Look at Ryan's years. When he had bad OLs, he had bad years. He's had bad OLs for several straight years. 

In 2020, Rivers had a top 5 OL. And did decent. And people still complained about his arm strength. 

Truth is both had/has declining arm strength. Both were near the end. But one had an elite OL, the other didn't.

And both were put a super short passing scheme. Rivers was better built for the scheme. And neither Wentz or Ryan were built for our scheme. Both their ANYA/IAY/AVGs/Etc dropped when here. 

Regardless, hard to compare given the huge delta in OLs they had. 

Rivers aged so much more gracefully than Ryan. They aren’t even comparable in that regard, regardless of OL.

 

Ryan began his decline almost immediately after his prime (age 34) and then fell off a cliff at age 37.

 

Rivers was still playing at a PB level at age 37 and had a really good season in Indy at age 39. Probably would have been good at age 40 if he didn’t retire.

The downside to Rivers is that he led this org. to think that a 37 year-old, declining Matt Ryan was a worthwhile and good idea.

 

[AKB]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

Sorry, but I don't fault Ballard for the QB retreads. No need to debate though.

IMO, he'll draft a QB in the top 10. 

 

So assuming we draft a QB this year, do you think Sam would be QB2?

 

"Sorry, but I don't fault Ballard for the QB retreads. No need to debate though.

IMO, he'll draft a QB in the top 10. "

 

--> Well there really isn't an argument to be made regarding Ballard having responsibility.  He is the general Manager.  He certainly is responsible up to some point.  The only debatable portion is if Irsay meddled by moving on from Wentz and forcing Ryan.  The other plausible excuse would be that Reich pushed hard for Wentz and he got him.

 

I'll call the Rivers year a good attempt.

 

Other than that, Ballard has done little to nothing to shore up our QB weakness.  He certainly bares blame in terms of unpreparedness, or stubborness in taking a QB, fearing he would be "run out of town"

 

There really isn't an argument in my above statements, pretty much just a narrative of what has taken place.  But by definition the general manager shoulders blame for the QB spot. 

 

So assuming we draft a QB this year, do you think Sam would be QB2?

 

--> I think he at least deserves to stay as QB3 or practice squad. I'm not sure if we will keep Foles as QB2. I would be fine with im as QB2, but it's not like I would be up in arms if they brought someone else in to compete for that spot instead of giving it to him. Kind of how he came in and replaced Eason. 

 

 

 

[gspdx]

On 12/17/2022 at 4:21 PM, indyagent17 said:

It seems more clear to me that he hired Saturday for one reason. If the team looks like they’re tanking, he can make Saturday the scapegoat. 

 

So Irsay hires a friend to be a scapegoat?  Glad I don't run with your crowd.

[indyagent17]

8 minutes ago, gspdx said:

 

So Irsay hires a friend to be a scapegoat?  Glad I don't run with your crowd.

Just a theory

[AKB]

21 minutes ago, gspdx said:

 

So Irsay hires a friend to be a scapegoat?  Glad I don't run with your crowd.

I could see a world where Saturday maintains some type of coaching role, maybe not HC

[BeanDiasucci]

58 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

 

"Sorry, but I don't fault Ballard for the QB retreads. No need to debate though.

IMO, he'll draft a QB in the top 10. "

 

--> Well there really isn't an argument to be made regarding Ballard having responsibility.  He is the general Manager.  He certainly is responsible up to some point.  The only debatable portion is if Irsay meddled by moving on from Wentz and forcing Ryan.  The other plausible excuse would be that Reich pushed hard for Wentz and he got him.

 

I'll call the Rivers year a good attempt.

 

Other than that, Ballard has done little to nothing to shore up our QB weakness.  He certainly bares blame in terms of unpreparedness, or stubborness in taking a QB, fearing he would be "run out of town"

 

There really isn't an argument in my above statements, pretty much just a narrative of what has taken place.  But by definition the general manager shoulders blame for the QB spot. 

 

So assuming we draft a QB this year, do you think Sam would be QB2?

 

--> I think he at least deserves to stay as QB3 or practice squad. I'm not sure if we will keep Foles as QB2. I would be fine with im as QB2, but it's not like I would be up in arms if they brought someone else in to compete for that spot instead of giving it to him. Kind of how he came in and replaced Eason. 

 

 

 

I agree with you and would also say that Ballard is responsible for what his head coach does, says, and pushes for. The Head Coach reports to the GM, right? If your division at work screws something up, you can't credibly claim that it's not your fault because it's the people who work for you who screwed it up, not you. If your subordinate is pushing for something you don't want, you had better be able to stop that thing from happening because you are still responsible for the result. The GM is responsible for the quality of the personnel on the team. 

[Fluke_33]

On 12/17/2022 at 11:56 PM, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

How long do you guys think or will take to find a new coach after the season and possibly new GM? After the SB?

Not long.  30 days.   I would expect a new hire before the combine or shortly thereafter.

[AKB]

24 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

I agree with you and would also say that Ballard is responsible for what his head coach does, says, and pushes for. The Head Coach reports to the GM, right? If your division at work screws something up, you can't credibly claim that it's not your fault because it's the people who work for you who screwed it up, not you. If your subordinate is pushing for something you don't want, you had better be able to stop that thing from happening because you are still responsible for the result. The GM is responsible for the quality of the personnel on the team. 

Right power comes with responsibility. 

 

funniest quote from ballard is when he tried to blame the media for the oline

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, AustinnKaine said:

"Sorry, but I don't fault Ballard for the QB retreads. No need to debate though.

IMO, he'll draft a QB in the top 10. "

 

--> Well there really isn't an argument to be made regarding Ballard having responsibility.  He is the general Manager.  He certainly is responsible up to some point.  The only debatable portion is if Irsay meddled by moving on from Wentz and forcing Ryan.  The other plausible excuse would be that Reich pushed hard for Wentz and he got him.

 

I'll call the Rivers year a good attempt.

 

Other than that, Ballard has done little to nothing to shore up our QB weakness.  He certainly bares blame in terms of unpreparedness, or stubborness in taking a QB, fearing he would be "run out of town"

Agreed.  While the HC has significant input into the QB situation, the GM has more things to consider than the issues the HC has to consider when dealing with a QB.  Certainly a HC can say that Rivers, Wentz, Ryan are good enough to win with, but the decision to sign one of those veterans over a more strategic decision of taking a franchise QB or saving money/cap space for a lesser bridge QB are issues that a GM has to consider.  Then the owner has to consider "face of the franchise" and other more business/social concerns that the GM would have to please the owner with, whereas the HC could probably care squat about them.  

 

All of those issues come together to where the GM weighs the pros and cons of each factor and makes the decision.  To blame a HC for the presence of any QB, or any player, is deflecting blame, IMO.

[Myles]

Jeff did exactly what I wanted him to do.

Come out of the bye week looking prepared to play a big game.  Only for a half but the team looked great.

Lose the game to keep close to the top 5 in draft position.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Myles said:

Jeff did exactly what I wanted him to do.

Come out of the bye week looking prepared to play a big game.  Only for a half but the team looked great.

Lose the game to keep close to the top 5 in draft position.  

Jeff is playing the script 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Matt Ryan is also the type that doesn't care being piled on, it is in the script. He is the nice guy that will do as he is told as he has millions of dollars and knows he is going into the Hall of Fame. It is obvious. He had Campbell wide open on 1 play that may have scored a TD in the 4th and you could see it, he seen him open but he dumped it off to a RB for a 3 and out  . 

[2006Coltsbestever]

We are tanking but secretly doing it 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Something is fundamentally broken with this team. It goes beyond Reich and Saturday and even somewhat QB. I think it all goes back to Irsay and his panic decisions. That all started with what happened with trading Carson. Then firing Reich and benching Ryan when we were .500. I think it all comes corn to Irsay and him starting to become what he says he doesn’t want to be. That’s his father.  

[Lancer1]

2 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

I could see a world where Saturday maintains some type of coaching role, maybe not HC

O-line coach, he'd probably be good at that!

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

25 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

- here goes my blood pressure again  

[richard pallo]

28 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

We can only hope.

[2006Coltsbestever]

After winning in 2006, I should've just been content, got a comfy lawn chair, and sat out by the beach at night in 70 degree weather with a strong 6 pack of beer. Why I keep this up, I have no idea  .

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, richard pallo said:

We can only hope.

Apparently michigan is attacking the transfer portal hard. I don’t see him leaving. Might help having a high draft pick for a QB.

[richard pallo]

5 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Apparently michigan is attacking the transfer portal hard. I don’t see him leaving. Might help having a high draft pick for a QB.

The transfer portal is a double edged sword.  It works both ways.  If he wins the national championship I can see him leaving Michigan after achieving a college coaches ultimate goal.  Having a high pick should help I would think.  

[DougDew]

15 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Apparently michigan is attacking the transfer portal hard. I don’t see him leaving. Might help having a high draft pick for a QB.

Maybe if Harbaugh wins the college National Championship for UM he might say mission accomplished.

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Something is fundamentally broken with this team. It goes beyond Reich and Saturday and even somewhat QB. I think it all goes back to Irsay and his panic decisions. That all started with what happened with trading Carson. Then firing Reich and benching Ryan when we were .500. I think it all comes corn to Irsay and him starting to become what he says he doesn’t want to be. That’s his father.  

I think Reich held a bad/average team together for several years until he could no longer muster the strength.  Last year Irsay saw what his team was and reacted impulsively when he was shocked after realizing it.  Then he probably thought the personnel was being held back by Frank, like many on this forum think.

 

When the owner has to step in, it sends a message to the team that your impressions of yourself were flawed.  They now know they are an average team at best, and are probably now playing below their potential because of the culture Irsay disrupted by his seemingly desperate actions.

[Moosejawcolt]

7 hours ago, DougDew said:

The oline began improving when Pryor was shown the bench. 

 

Not sure what Saturday has to do with the personnel rotation, other than not trying a next iteration beyond the Raimann/Fries combo he inherited.  And Smith began improving his RT play about week 5.  

 

Raimann's improvement has come as expected.  A talented young man gaining experience and learning his craft.  I would not expect who the HC is has anything to do with it, and there is no tangible evidence that Saturday is doing anything differently than Reich in developing Raimann.  After all, he's got the same oline coach.

 

Sam > Ryan at this point.  About the same decision making with a better arm and better mobility, but Saturday can't figure that out, or has a mission we are not privy too.

 

Like one former GM said about Saturday. All he had to do is milk the clock. They were snapping the ball on offense with 18 secs on the clock. The GM said play cover 2 and rush 4 . Keep all the plays in front of you and dont let any big plays. Saturday is not the man and the game made it clear

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Maybe if Harbaugh wins the college National Championship for UM he might say mission accomplished.

I think Reich held a bad/average team together for several years until he could no longer muster the strength.  Last year Irsay saw what his team was and reacted impulsively when he was shocked after realizing it.  Then he probably thought the personnel was being held back by Frank, like many on this forum think.

 

When the owner has to step in, it sends a message to the team that your impressions of yourself were flawed.  They now know they are an average team at best, and are probably now playing below their potential because of the culture Irsay disrupted by his seemingly desperate actions.

I think we have been proven right about Frank and it is crickets around her about how the Oline will improve and the offensive play calling with get better. Of course they will all point to Parks as being no good and the Oline has gotten better. Well it has played some atrocious Dlines in the VIkings and the Raiders. This team is a dumpster fire. There are no real clear players that I see as untradeable. Good luck to  Irsay getting someone in here.  Ballard and Irsay have  created a mess and I honestly think this has only improved Frank's stock in the off season. Also people are for some reason ignoring the coach that just left to go back to college. That is a statement. This is the Titanic and he just jumped into the life boat leaving all the others on board to go down with the ship!

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Maybe if Harbaugh wins the college National Championship for UM he might say mission accomplished.

I think Reich held a bad/average team together for several years until he could no longer muster the strength.  Last year Irsay saw what his team was and reacted impulsively when he was shocked after realizing it.  Then he probably thought the personnel was being held back by Frank, like many on this forum think.

 

When the owner has to step in, it sends a message to the team that your impressions of yourself were flawed.  They now know they are an average team at best, and are probably now playing below their potential because of the culture Irsay disrupted by his seemingly desperate actions.

When the owner is seen as making all the decisions, it severely takes away any power the coach and gm have with their players. This is a total Dallas situation and for some reason, poeple dont see it because it is the Colts. People talk about Harbaugh and Payton. Do you really think they are coming here? It would take a boat load of money and they would only come if they were basically the DeFacto president of the club with total power!

[DougDew]

16 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Like one former GM said about Saturday. All he had to do is milk the clock. They were snapping the ball on offense with 18 secs on the clock. The GM said play cover 2 and rush 4 . Keep all the plays in front of you and dont let any big plays. Saturday is not the man and the game made it clear

I'm not ready to say that Saturday is not the Man.  But I never thought there would be any type of remarkable improvement beyond the initial spark that always comes when an interim takes over.  

[DougDew]

41 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think we have been proven right about Frank and it is crickets around her about how the Oline will improve and the offensive play calling with get better. Of course they will all point to Parks as being no good and the Oline has gotten better. Well it has played some atrocious Dlines in the VIkings and the Raiders. This team is a dumpster fire. There are no real clear players that I see as untradeable. Good luck to  Irsay getting someone in here.  Ballard and Irsay have  created a mess and I honestly think this has only improved Frank's stock in the off season. Also people are for some reason ignoring the coach that just left to go back to college. That is a statement. This is the Titanic and he just jumped into the life boat leaving all the others on board to go down with the ship!

Just look at the talent we played with under the Grigson years.  Luck, AC, Reggie, TY, Doyle.  Had some decent RBs pass through.  The defense wasn't great but it held its own with Mathis and Vontae, who could shut down the opponent's best WR. 

 

Mathis actually led the NFL in sacks one year.  Number 1.  We have yet to have anybody in the top 10 since? 

 

I'm not commenting on RG because he was not responsible for all of the talent, but the bucket of time known as the RG Years were much more flush with talent than we have now.  Pagano had a much easier task than Reich has had, and we nearly got into the playoffs every year despite a steady decline in talent...until now when the camel's back finally broke.

38 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

When the owner is seen as making all the decisions, it severely takes away any power the coach and gm have with their players. This is a total Dallas situation and for some reason, poeple dont see it because it is the Colts. People talk about Harbaugh and Payton. Do you really think they are coming here? It would take a boat load of money and they would only come if they were basically the DeFacto president of the club with total power!

When the owner is flailing about appearing to be impulsive, the culture switches to being on pins and needles wondering what the next move is going to be.  That was set after the JAX loss last year and that's why nothing changed since game 1 this season.

 

He needs to rest the culture with a strong experienced GM hire...or a strong endorsement of Ballard in the offseason.  Somebody who will give the impression that he will push back against Irsay when he needs to, or isn't part of a three-man decision making process where the owner is obviously the top dog in that scenario.   

 

After what Irsay has done this past 10 months, some new rookie GM is just going to come off like being Irsay's coffee fetcher.

 

In that respect, Jim Harbaugh with total personnel control has the personality to at least give the impression he would tell Irsay to butt out of his business of running the team.  Everybody would at least know that the "football guy" is the one making the decisions.

 

[CanuckColtsFan]

17 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Heres the thing most of those other people aren’t Irsay’s responsibility.  That might sound harsh but most of them don’t work for the Colts so they aren’t his problem.  Is it good for the city and those people if the Colts are good?  Sure but that’s not guaranteed in pro sports.  

 

We all love the Colts and thus want to see things go well for them and thus get frustrated when it doesn’t.  However, Irsay owns the team and it’s private business so he doesn’t answer to anyone here.  The only people he answers too are the other NFL owners and as we are seeing with Snyder right now it’s nearly impossible to get them step in and take a team away because they don’t want to open the door to owners doing it to them.  
 

So it makes fans feel better and more invested to say things like I pay their salaries with my tickets and whatever but one thing Covid showed us is how the NFL really makes their money.  It’s from TV deals and revenue sharing off those deals.  they had several teams play in front of empty stadiums all year and while they didn’t turn as big of a profit as they wanted the NFL still turned a profit that year.  So honestly fans have little to no power in forcing the team into doing things.  
 

Now you can argue it’s in Irsay’s best interest to have happy fans because that equals more money, and frankly as sports owners go he’s worked very hard to do that.  He’s also not dumb.  He knows if he puts a winner on the field that’s what the fans want and they will be happy.  So for all this talk about broken trust and how to get ride of Irsay and what not the moment the Colts start winning again a large number of those fans will be back and singing Irsay’s praises again.  
 

I guess I say all that to say love him or hate him Irsay isn’t going anywhere so we might as well just hope he gets things right because he’s the one guy over there that can’t be fired.

To your point that's what's concerning.  Irsay can't be fired and it appears from the outside looking that he's meddling. I dunno I could be way out to lunch but if I'm a player for a team that hires some Coach with no experience I'm worried.  When the guy calling the plays on O is probably less qualified then the QB that's kinda silly. I don't think organizations that act silly clean that up in a year or two. When it's the only person who can't get fired it's a very big problem. 

[Superman]

16 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Your framing it, as tangible, is an attempt to limit replies.

 

No, it's not. What it really is is an attempt to understand what it is that people value about him. I've heard many people talk about his perceived leadership, or his experience as a player. We know he has no relevant coaching experience, so we can't talk about his previous work with another team. I want to know what it is.

 

Quote

I have no clue about Saturday. I do like the intangibles, the demeanor/attitude, and some of the changes (I guess they are tangible) I'm seeing. If they go another path (someone I like), I won't mind. If they give him (Jeff) a chance, won't mind either. He's as risky as most retreads or promotions. I'd be happy with Payton or Harbaugh. Doubt either would be happy in Indy. I'd be happy with Bieniemy too, but he's a not a perfect option either. If we're talking tangibles, only Payton and Harbaugh have clear tangibles. Bieniemy has been under Reid, and we know that is not a guarantee. 

 

Out of curiosity, any specific changes? Playing Matt Ryan, some settling at OL, tapping Frazier to call plays? 

 

Quote

On Frank. Given he didn't make the 1st round when we were interviewing, pretty obvious he was not a tier 1 guy at the time. And his resume was weak, and he's been an intangible king since becoming HC here. Great guy, but glad the era is over.  Hope the scheme and inflexibility leaves too. 

 

Again, not really interested in the Reich post mortem. Like you said, the era is over.

 

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, shasta519 said:

Rivers aged so much more gracefully than Ryan. They aren’t even comparable in that regard, regardless of OL.

 

Ryan began his decline almost immediately after his prime (age 34) and then fell off a cliff at age 37.

 

Rivers was still playing at a PB level at age 37 and had a really good season in Indy at age 39. Probably would have been good at age 40 if he didn’t retire.

The downside to Rivers is that he led this org. to think that a 37 year-old, declining Matt Ryan was a worthwhile and good idea.

 

 

To the bolded... you really can't disconnect OL from QB. It's relevant. 

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

 

"Sorry, but I don't fault Ballard for the QB retreads. No need to debate though.

IMO, he'll draft a QB in the top 10. "

 

--> Well there really isn't an argument to be made regarding Ballard having responsibility.  He is the general Manager.  He certainly is responsible up to some point.  The only debatable portion is if Irsay meddled by moving on from Wentz and forcing Ryan.  The other plausible excuse would be that Reich pushed hard for Wentz and he got him.

 

I'll call the Rivers year a good attempt.

 

Other than that, Ballard has done little to nothing to shore up our QB weakness.  He certainly bares blame in terms of unpreparedness, or stubborness in taking a QB, fearing he would be "run out of town"

 

There really isn't an argument in my above statements, pretty much just a narrative of what has taken place.  But by definition the general manager shoulders blame for the QB spot. 

 

So assuming we draft a QB this year, do you think Sam would be QB2?

 

--> I think he at least deserves to stay as QB3 or practice squad. I'm not sure if we will keep Foles as QB2. I would be fine with im as QB2, but it's not like I would be up in arms if they brought someone else in to compete for that spot instead of giving it to him. Kind of how he came in and replaced Eason. 

 

On the first bolded. There is an argument. There were fingerprints from Frank and Irsay on QBs since JB. GMs aren't all all-powerful bosses. 

 

Second bolded - Doubt we keep 3 QBs if we have a 1st round rook + vet to mentor. I could see practice squad, which I would love. Foles's chance went out the window when Frank got fired IMO. 

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

No, it's not. What it really is is an attempt to understand what it is that people value about him. I've heard many people talk about his perceived leadership, or his experience as a player. We know he has no relevant coaching experience, so we can't talk about his previous work with another team. I want to know what it is.

 

I prefer his style/demeanor. That doesn't mean he'll be a good HC though. His experience as a player, is nice. Mudd thought that he was a great leader, and had grey matter (on O). That doesn't mean he'll be be good HC though. 

 

All of those are intangibles, which is my point. So asking for only "tangibles" doesn't really get what you're asking above (understanding). 

 

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

 

Out of curiosity, any specific changes? Playing Matt Ryan, some settling at OL, tapping Frazier to call plays? 

 

 

Can you elaborate. Don't understand your question relevant to the paragraph you replied to. 

 

1 hour ago, Superman said:

Again, not really interested in the Reich post mortem. Like you said, the era is over.

 

 

Not interested in debating either or diving on. Point is simply tangibles from Frank were sketchy. Nothing that pointed to clear success. It's pretty clear. 

[Moosejawcolt]

8 hours ago, DougDew said:

Agreed.  While the HC has significant input into the QB situation, the GM has more things to consider than the issues the HC has to consider when dealing with a QB.  Certainly a HC can say that Rivers, Wentz, Ryan are good enough to win with, but the decision to sign one of those veterans over a more strategic decision of taking a franchise QB or saving money/cap space for a lesser bridge QB are issues that a GM has to consider.  Then the owner has to consider "face of the franchise" and other more business/social concerns that the GM would have to please the owner with, whereas the HC could probably care squat about them.  

 

All of those issues come together to where the GM weighs the pros and cons of each factor and makes the decision.  To blame a HC for the presence of any QB, or any player, is deflecting blame, IMO.

It is funny how people still are finding ways of trying to absolve Ballard of any blame. At thr e d of thr day , he is thr GM. Reich can sell him anyrjng he wa ta but Ballard is the one who says yeah or never. What people are Aldo forgetting is that he got fleeced on the  Wentz trade. Sure Reich may  have wanted him but a 1st and a 3rd when everyone  knew no one else was in the game. I could also bring up Buckner. A w3th overall and 20 million to boot.  San Fran had to tradechim as they knew they couldn't keep that line together. To me , Ballard is very impulsive and this is reflective in the resigning of both Leonard and Nelson.

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, Moosejawcolt said:

It is funny how people still are finding ways of trying to absolve Ballard of any blame. At thr e d of thr day , he is thr GM. Reich can sell him anyrjng he wa ta but Ballard is the one who says yeah or never. What people are Aldo forgetting is that he got fleeced on the  Wentz trade. Sure Reich may  have wanted him but a 1st and a 3rd when everyone  knew no one else was in the game. I could also bring up Buckner. A w3th overall and 20 million to boot.  San Fran had to tradechim as they knew they couldn't keep that line together. To me , Ballard is very impulsive and this is reflective in the resigning of both Leonard and Nelson.

Sorry bout spelling mistakes. Hit enter before I was able to proof.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

I prefer his style/demeanor. That doesn't mean he'll be a good HC though. His experience as a player, is nice. Mudd thought that he was a great leader, and had grey matter (on O). That doesn't mean he'll be be good HC though. 

 

All of those are intangibles, which is my point. So asking for only "tangibles" doesn't really get what you're asking above (understanding). 

 

I've said a few times over the last couple months, I think it's a worth evaluating whether anyone knows what they're doing when hiring HCs. I'm not being completely dismissive of the intangibles. I would rather see a guy who has a track record of some kind of success as a coach, but there are plenty of coaching hires who had strong resumes and still failed. 

 

And Jim Harbaugh has plenty of success on his resume, but I don't want him, either. And that's mostly because of intangibles.

 

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Can you elaborate. Don't understand your question relevant to the paragraph you replied to. 

 

You said you like some of the changes you're seeing. I'm asking if there are examples. The examples I listed are the ones I see as Jeff's decisions so far. 

 

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Not interested in debating either or diving on. Point is simply tangibles from Frank were sketchy. Nothing that pointed to clear success. It's pretty clear. 

 

Yeah, I think I'm accepting that there is nothing that can point to clear success for a coaching candidate. Especially for a first time HC. I think I might give Reich more credit for some tangibles than you do, but he certainly wasn't a slam dunk candidate. I liked certain things about him and thought he was a good fit at the time, but I also had some questions.