So, is the Jeff Saturday experiment over yet?

[Moosejawcolt]

20 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

the general manager, generally manages, can't believe we are still talking about this. 

It's a quote by former NFL head coach Bill Parcells that says, "You are what your record says you are." The point is that you can't reason distance between you and what you accomplish (or don't accomplish.) Results speak for themselves. The rest of the speaking we do is generally everything else.

[Moosejawcolt]

12 hours ago, DougDew said:

Do you think this is a one sided argument?

 

"We don't know" that the GM is responsible for the QB.  (The subset of that discussion is what Irsay thinks)

 

When it comes to pondering the roles of the GM and HC in personnel moves, should we also raise the issues:

 

• We don't know how much Frank pounded his fists in 2018 for Ballard to fix the oline before he even took the job to be Luck's HC.  IOW, the genius move to add Nelson, Glow, and Smith could have been because of Frank.  We just don't know.
• We don't know how much Frank pounded his fists to get Pittman.
• We don't know how much Frank pounded his fists to get JT, nearly the best RB in the NFL.

Somehow, "we" know that these good decisions were solely attributed to Ballard.  I've read that one sided argument for years. And only now do we introduce the concept that Ballard is not in charge of personnel only when the QB is questioned.   Maybe it should have questioned if he was in charge when the Colts drafted Nelson?  Maybe Frank was the good talent evaluator and not Ballard.  Gee, we just don't know.

 

Since we don't know what Irsay knows about personnel decisions, we don't know if Irsay knows that either.  LOL.

 

 

 

 

It's a quote by former NFL head coach Bill Parcells that says, "You are what your record says you are." The point is that you can't reason distance between you and what you accomplish (or don't accomplish.) Results speak for themselves. The rest of the speaking we do is generally everything else.

[DougDew]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

Asking whether Irsay possibly holds Reich more responsible for the QB direction than Ballard is a legitimate question. Being dismissive of it because you think you know for sure that it's not the case is an example of extreme hubris. In fact, you do not know.

Huh?  Where have I said anything about whether I KNOW anything about what Irsay thinks.  Unless anybody was in the room with the three of them, nobody here has a clue.  And their speculation about it is no more valid than Bill Tobin's Postman's. 

4 hours ago, Superman said:

All this 'Ballard got all the credit, now everyone is shifting the blame to Reich' business is nonsense. There is no claim that Reich was pulling all the strings on roster decisions. The one element that's being questioned is the QB direction, because it was obviously a collaborative process into which Reich had major input, it is the most obvious example of mismanagement over the last three years, and because Reich is fired and Ballard is not. 

 

4 hours ago, Superman said:

This is not about and has not been about who picks "the players," nor is it an attempt to absolve Ballard of any blame or responsibility for bad roster decisions. It's simply about the possibility that, in Irsay's eyes, the QB direction was more Reich's vision than Ballard's. And since Ballard is currently the GM, and it's obvious that we need to address the QB position, and the re-tread strategy has been ineffective, it's something about which fans would be curious. Because, if Ballard is going to be the GM moving forward, we want to know how he intends to handle the most critical roster need.

What Irsay thinks is a conversation you are having in this thread. 

 

In fact, there have been other comments in this forum about other positions than QB.  When Pryor was struggling, there was speculation offered that his $6M starters contract was because Reich probably recommended it to Ballard.  Yes, the entire "we don't know (who)" narrative is all about deflecting potential blame away from Ballard...more directly...its about continuing to point the blame towards Frank, even when the convo shifts from on the field stuff to personnel, which its bound to do through the offseason.  God help us all.

 

The topic of what Irsay thinks is a subset of that discussion.  But it flows in the same direction.  If Irsay blames Frank, then it validates an opinion that we should also blame Frank for the personnel.

 

And no, I don't care about Frank.  I'm not committing forum heresy.  I'm not a Frank Apologist.  I'm not a Frank Sucks Denier.  I just like having sincere conversations that are not incessantly tainted with comments designed to gather support for blaming Frank.  They spoil each thread in the forum.

 

As far a who the GM is or what role he has, I don't care if its Ballard, Grigson, Frank, or some new person.  I'll judge them on their ability to secure top talent at the QB, EDGE, LT, and Flanker spots.  First task is to learn how important they are relative to other spots.  I hope Irsay doesn't fire Ballard.  I'd rather see Ballard do better than have Irsay break in a new person.

4 hours ago, Superman said:

All this other stuff is deflection

Its not deflective.  Its precisely to the point about narratives.

 

When Ballard made good picks in 2018 and 2020, nobody suggested it was a collaboration. 

 

When it was about RG, the narrative was that he was in charge and he picked Werner and TRich...without exception.  Those two picks are a big part of the narrative "he sucked".  The narrative became a demonstrable fact to some, even though nobody asked how much he was really in charge. 

 

If its reasonable to speculate now that Frank had a hand in the (bad) picks, and pounded his fists for his favorite QB or gave his thumbs up to Pryor, then its reasonable to speculate that Pagano pounded his fists for his Elephant 43 DE Bjoern Werner.  And gave his thumbs up to the rolling ball of butcher knives RB. 

 

When the narrative is so strong...such a mob pile on,....so pervasive that people render "grigson sucked" as being a demonstrable fact,  any reasonable, straight down the middle question about how that demonstrable fact was arrived at is thought to be a "defense" of Grigson.  By folks like @NFLfan.   

 

And then the the person gets labeled an Apologist.   Maybe in other circles, I'd be labeled a "Denier."  IMO, labels like that are what's deflective.

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, shasta519 said:

Very fair points. I think there has long been a different standard for Ballard. 

And when it comes to his predecessor, you rarely hear people blame Pagano and his staff, like we have seen recently with Reich. This is despite Pagano’s fingerprints being all over those rosters, especially in 2015-16 when it was reported that Irsay had given Pagano more power. We even heard stories about Pagano jumping on the table for players like TJ Green.

Pagano came out of that era largely unscathed, while Grigson has been almost universally vilified, to the extent that the local media don’t even mention his name.

 

You also never hear people criticize/accuse Irsay for any meddling during the Grigson era, like they are now. And this is despite Irsay jet setting to meet FAs and tweeting about briefcases of millions. Not to even mention the public and private personal issues Irsay was dealing with at that exact time. 
 

I just think there should be a consistent standard. 
 

But look at the team parallels:

 

In the 6th year after Grigson took over (2017), the Colts were a 4-win team with possibly the league’s worst OL and major questions at QB. He was (rightfully) fired. 
 

In the 6th year after Ballard took over, the Colts are likely to finish a 4-5 win team with possibly the league’s worst OL and even more questions at QB. And Ballard doesn’t even have the team success to fall back on.

 

They got there in very different ways,

but ended up in a similar spot. And I have no problem saying this team needs a new direction.

Good points.  Its really about having an open mind when forming an opinion about....in the end...stuff that doesn't matter, IMO.  

 

I like stability.  I'm never about firing someone, or about thinking they suck.  I want them to do better.  Maybe that's why I'm seen as a Grigson or Frank Apologist.   I point out what I think the issue is...or is not....and others seem to go right to blaming a person responsible for those issues, and then assume I have an opinion of that person because I raised a issue.   Its a weird dynamic that just makes a dart for blaming a HC, a GM, or an owner, instead of discussing a problem.  It stifles conversation, IMO.

 

[AKB]

12 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

 

 

"In the National Football League, the general manager (GM) of a team typically controls player transactions and bears the primary responsibility on behalf of the team during contract discussions with players.

 

 

our coaches don't act as a GM.  if anyone butts into that it is Irsay.  

 

Ballard has built this roster.  Doesn't matter if you want to divide the blame, he is our primary guy when it comes to drafting, and signing. 

 

If we are going to make excuses for him when it fails, we should do the same when he succeeds.  Irsay is the guy who suggested we draft Taylor.  Who did he tell to go get him? Ballard.  Frank wanted pittman.  Who did they ask to go get him? Ballard.  

 

So I guess our 2 best skill position players are to no credit of Ballard right? 

 

Conversation here is getting stale. 

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

our coaches don't act as a GM.  if anyone butts into that it is Irsay.  

 

Ballard has built this roster.  Doesn't matter if you want to divide the blame, he is our primary guy when it comes to drafting, and signing. 

 

If we are going to make excuses for him when it fails, we should do the same when he succeeds.  Irsay is the guy who suggested we draft Taylor.  Who did he tell to go get him? Ballard.  Frank wanted pittman.  Who did they ask to go get him? Ballard.  

 

So I guess our 2 best skill position players are to no credit of Ballard right? 

 

Conversation here is getting stale. 

lol... you cut the rest.... and highlights only your definition... 

 

Fact.... no one knows who pushed for the QBs... it's pretty obvious that Frank pushed for at least 2. And we can assume that  Irsay was involved (any QB decisions)... So you can't say Ballard is the only person that built the roster.... It's the most important position.. and we don't know who pushed for others, or how much they have say.... those are facts..

 

Yes, stale.. you ignore all the rest of what I pasted.. 

[AKB]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

lol... you cut the rest.... and highlights only your definition... 

 

Fact.... no one knows who pushed for the QBs... it's pretty obvious that Frank pushed for at least 2. And we can assume that  Irsay was involved (any QB decisions)... So you can't say Ballard is the only person that built the roster.... It's the most important position.. and we don't know who pushed for others, or how much they have say.... those are facts..

 

Yes, stale.. you ignore all the rest of what I pasted.. 

the rest isn't exclusive.. but it's the main point.  no one is speaking in absolutes here.

 

the main responsbility of MOST GMs is roster construction.  If you want to sit down on a comfy pillow and split straws all day that's fine.  Doesn't change the fact this roster is a majority of Ballard's doing.  The highlighted version is the MAJORITY, that's why I chose that.  I also responded to the coaching bit, our coaches do not act as GMs. 

 

its boring. surprised people are even debating it. Wanna give him a get out of jail free card, but then want him to have full credit for success.  Absolutely zero sense to me. 

 

And talk about quarterbacks all you want, even if we remove that position ballard hasn't done well. look at contracts, he hasn't done well. look at premium needs, hasn't done well. look at retaining free agents, hasn't done well. 

 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, AustinnKaine said:

the rest isn't exclusive.. but it's the main point.  no one is speaking in absolutes here.

 

the main responsbility of MOST GMs is roster construction.  If you want to sit down on a comfy pillow and split straws all day that's fine.  Doesn't change the fact this roster is a majority of Ballard's doing.  The highlighted version is the MAJORITY, that's why I chose that.  I also responded to the coaching bit, our coaches do not act as GMs. 

 

its boring. surprised people are even debating it. Wanna give him a get out of jail free card, but then want him to have full credit for success.  Absolutely zero sense to me. 

 

And talk about quarterbacks all you want, even if we remove that position ballard hasn't done well. look at contracts, he hasn't done well. look at premium needs, hasn't done well. look at retaining free agents, hasn't done well. 

 

 

Our O has been a wreck the last two years, mostly because the QB and the OL. The D has been better than average. Not perfect, but better than average. But the the OL and QB has been the biggest issue. The OL is playing better now. Not great, but Raimann has been better than Fisher in the last 4 games. The RB is great. WR has been fine. TE has been fine. Both Woods and the other rook are very promising. Frank didn't use TEs much, except small HB/TEs (Burton and Granson). 

 

The roster doesn't suck. If we had better coaching, or a better QB, or both.... we would have a better team. 

[AKB]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Our O has been a wreck the last two years, mostly because the QB and the OL. The D has been better than average. Not perfect, but better than average. But the the OL and QB has been the biggest issue. The OL is playing better now. Not great, but Raimann has been better than Fisher in the last 4 games. The RB is great. WR has been fine. TE has been fine. Both Woods and the other rook are very promising. Frank didn't use TEs much, except small HB/TEs (Burton and Granson). 

 

The roster doesn't suck. If we had better coaching, or a better QB, or both.... we would have a better team. 

I never said the roster sucked.  But you are what your record says you are.

 

Since ballard, we are an 8-8 team.  So, Ballard is a .500 GM. the Colts are a.500 team.  We haven't won the division in half a decade. We haven't accomplished anything under Ballard except medicore results. 

 

Frank got fired, team got worse. Wentz got cut, team got worse.  Autry, Houston, Reed, Glow all walked, team got worse.  Oline got worse because "the media wanted him to take a WR" , he didn't take a QB cause "he'd get run out of town if it isn't the right guy"

 

and it goes on. and on. and on. 

 

He needs to be held responsibile just like everyone else. 

 

It's funny that teams that have accomplished more have fired their GM.  actually hilarious. 

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

I never said the roster sucked.  But you are what your record says you are.

 

Since ballard, we are an 8-8 team.  So, Ballard is a .500 GM. the Colts are a.500 team.  We haven't won the division in half a decade. We haven't accomplished anything under Ballard except medicore results. 

 

Frank got fired, team got worse. Wentz got cut, team got worse.  Autry, Houston, Reed, Glow all walked, team got worse.  Oline got worse because "the media wanted him to take a WR" , he didn't take a QB cause "he'd get run out of town if it isn't the right guy"

 

and it goes on. and on. and on. 

 

He needs to be held responsibile just like everyone else. 

 

It's funny that teams that have accomplished more have fired their GM.  actually hilarious. 

Frank got fired, and the team got worse???

Lol... great talk.. 

[AKB]

16 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Frank got fired, and the team got worse???

Lol... great talk.. 

the line got better.  

first quarter scoring got better (kind of... not really when deducting non offensive TDs)\\

 

Play calling has gotten worse (lets see if Parks can do better with Foles)

Defense has gotten worse

Special Teams has stayed the same.

 

Firing Frank did not fix this team, or make it better. Why? Becuase it is the same roster.  Hiring Jeff as the Oline coach, or making any similar type of change and we would have similar results.  

 

so the only substantial area of improvement has really been first drive, and first quarter scoring.  time management has been worse, timeout management has been worse. 

 

also, us not doing well on opening drives under Frank was an outlier this season. the first 3-4 years we were good in that regard.  What has happened since? We flipped it.  Now we are really good in the first quarter, and absolutely horrid in Q4, so even if you don't want to say we've gotten worse, we haven't gotten any better.

 

Facts are the facts. No coach is going to magically make this roster a contender.  The roster that Ballard primarily constructed. 

 

also interesting how you quote one line from me, but when I do it, im avoiding. fact is, team has relatively stayed the same or gotten worse.  we are .500 team, and Ballard is severely overrated due to drafting Nelson and Leonard. 

 

 

 

 

[AKB]

3 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

the line got better.  

first quarter scoring got better (kind of... not really when deducting non offensive TDs)\\

 

Play calling has gotten worse (lets see if Parks can do better with Foles)

Defense has gotten worse

Special Teams has stayed the same.

 

Firing Frank did not fix this team, or make it better. Why? Becuase it is the same roster.  Hiring Jeff as the Oline coach, or making any similar type of change and we would have similar results.  

 

so the only substantial area of improvement has really been first drive, and first quarter scoring.  time management has been worse, timeout management has been worse. 

 

also, us not doing well on opening drives under Frank was an outlier this season. the first 3-4 years we were good in that regard.  What has happened since? We flipped it.  Now we are really good in the first quarter, and absolutely horrid in Q4, so even if you don't want to say we've gotten worse, we haven't gotten any better.

 

Facts are the facts. No coach is going to magically make this roster a contender.  The roster that Ballard primarily constructed. 

 

also interesting how you quote one line from me, but when I do it, im avoiding. fact is, team has relatively stayed the same or gotten worse.  we are .500 team, and Ballard is severely overrated due to drafting Nelson and Leonard. 

 

 

 

 

edit: also if you go just by win/loss we have gotten worse. 

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

the line got better.  

first quarter scoring got better (kind of... not really when deducting non offensive TDs)\\

 

Play calling has gotten worse (lets see if Parks can do better with Foles)

Defense has gotten worse

Special Teams has stayed the same.

 

Firing Frank did not fix this team, or make it better. Why? Becuase it is the same roster.  Hiring Jeff as the Oline coach, or making any similar type of change and we would have similar results.  

 

so the only substantial area of improvement has really been first drive, and first quarter scoring.  time management has been worse, timeout management has been worse. 

 

also, us not doing well on opening drives under Frank was an outlier this season. the first 3-4 years we were good in that regard.  What has happened since? We flipped it.  Now we are really good in the first quarter, and absolutely horrid in Q4, so even if you don't want to say we've gotten worse, we haven't gotten any better.

 

Facts are the facts. No coach is going to magically make this roster a contender.  The roster that Ballard primarily constructed. 

 

also interesting how you quote one line from me, but when I do it, im avoiding. fact is, team has relatively stayed the same or gotten worse.  we are .500 team, and Ballard is severely overrated due to drafting Nelson and Leonard. 

 

 

 

 

[AKB]

12 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

interesting response. quality. 

[shasta519]

8 hours ago, DougDew said:

Good points.  Its really about having an open mind when forming an opinion about....in the end...stuff that doesn't matter, IMO.  

 

I like stability.  I'm never about firing someone, or about thinking they suck.  I want them to do better.  Maybe that's why I'm seen as a Grigson or Frank Apologist.   I point out what I think the issue is...or is not....and others seem to go right to blaming a person responsible for those issues, and then assume I have an opinion of that person because I raised a issue.   Its a weird dynamic that just makes a dart for blaming a HC, a GM, or an owner, instead of discussing a problem.  It stifles conversation, IMO.

 

Ideally, I don’t want to see people being fired either. But of course it’s going to happen from time to time.

 

Ultimately, it’s very rarely about one person anyways. And in trying to articulate that, I am sure I come off as an apologist as well, especially in regards to the previous era. But it does seem to like objectivity begins to fade when people play the blame game.
 

 

[DougDew]

4 hours ago, shasta519 said:

Ideally, I don’t want to see people being fired either. But of course it’s going to happen from time to time.

 

Ultimately, it’s very rarely about one person anyways. And in trying to articulate that, I am sure I come off as an apologist as well, especially in regards to the previous era. But it does seem to like objectivity begins to fade when people play the blame game.
 

 

That's why I brought up the $800M in dead salaries being paid out to fired HCs and GMs.  The NFL seems to be paying guys they must have recently hired that replaced the guys they fired a short time before, because here is a bunch of money still being paid.  It seems that firing them, holding them "accountable" LOL...does nothing towards solving the problem. 

 

I'd rather see Ballard learn from his mistakes made after five years.   You can say that he has been the major problem, without actually saying that the solution is to replace him.  The solution is for him to get better.  Same with a first time HC, if you think he has the personality, football knowledge, professionalism, etc.   

 

The new guy is just going to make his version of mistakes, unless you expect him to walk right into the job...never being a GM before....and becoming a good GM year one.  The NFL is showing that the HC and GM hiring process, and firing process, looks like a dart throw.  

11 hours ago, AustinnKaine said:

the main responsbility of MOST GMs is roster construction.  If you want to sit down on a comfy pillow and split straws all day that's fine.  Doesn't change the fact this roster is a majority of Ballard's doing.  The highlighted version is the MAJORITY, that's why I chose that.  I also responded to the coaching bit, our coaches do not act as GMs. 

 

its boring. surprised people are even debating it. Wanna give him a get out of jail free card, but then want him to have full credit for success.  Absolutely zero sense to me. 

 

And talk about quarterbacks all you want, even if we remove that position ballard hasn't done well. look at contracts, he hasn't done well. look at premium needs, hasn't done well. look at retaining free agents, hasn't done well. 

I the six years Ballard has been here, he has fielded the question from the media about roster construction.  If the media has been asking the wrong person, I've never heard him defer the questions to someone else.  Yeah, it pretty much common knowledge he is responsible for the specific players put on the roster.   I'm sure Reich and Saturday decide game day actives, and if its okay if any particular player gets waived to make room for another.

 

Ballard is even getting a get out of jail free card when it comes to QBs.  Hey, we just don't know.  The wording that Frank "pounded his fists for" or "pushed" for are words to describe a situation where one person is advocating something when the others are opposed or are neutral.  They have another opinion or no opinion until the guy pushing for one QB convinces them.

 

It would be very much common sense for Ballard to believe that Wentz would be a great fit with Frank.  In fact, most casual fans thought that based on their previous history, so why is it that the GM is blind and must be convinced by Frank directly?

 

The fact that Frank wanted Wentz in no way suggests that Ballard did not already want him to.

 

As afar as Irsay, do you think that maybe he's talking about a collaborative effort as a means to deflect direct blame of anything onto anybody?  Give the appearance that they all make decisions together, so affixing blame for any one decision is nearly impossible.  The process is intentionally described as muddied.  Its a way of Irsay protecting his people.  So anything he says about it should be taken with a grain of salt.   But, we don't know this of course. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 12/23/2022 at 6:57 AM, DougDew said:

 

• We don't know how much Frank pounded his fists in 2018 for Ballard to fix the oline before he even took the job to be Luck's HC.  IOW, the genius move to add Nelson, Glow, and Smith could have been because of Frank.  We just don't know.
• We don't know how much Frank pounded his fists to get Pittman.
• We don't know how much Frank pounded his fists to get JT, nearly the best RB in the NFL.

Somehow, "we" know that these good decisions were solely attributed to Ballard.  I've read that one sided argument for years. And only now do we introduce the concept that Ballard is not in charge of personnel only when the QB is questioned.   Maybe it should have questioned if he was in charge when the Colts drafted Nelson?  Maybe Frank was the good talent evaluator and not Ballard.  Gee, we just don't know.

 

Since we don't know what Irsay knows about personnel decisions, we don't know if Irsay knows that either.  LOL.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, since I didn't see any bruising or cuts on Reich's hands I would assume he didn't pound his fist much if any.   

[Moosejawcolt]

19 hours ago, DougDew said:

Huh?  Where have I said anything about whether I KNOW anything about what Irsay thinks.  Unless anybody was in the room with the three of them, nobody here has a clue.  And their speculation about it is no more valid than Bill Tobin's Postman's. 

 

What Irsay thinks is a conversation you are having in this thread. 

 

In fact, there have been other comments in this forum about other positions than QB.  When Pryor was struggling, there was speculation offered that his $6M starters contract was because Reich probably recommended it to Ballard.  Yes, the entire "we don't know (who)" narrative is all about deflecting potential blame away from Ballard...more directly...its about continuing to point the blame towards Frank, even when the convo shifts from on the field stuff to personnel, which its bound to do through the offseason.  God help us all.

 

The topic of what Irsay thinks is a subset of that discussion.  But it flows in the same direction.  If Irsay blames Frank, then it validates an opinion that we should also blame Frank for the personnel.

 

And no, I don't care about Frank.  I'm not committing forum heresy.  I'm not a Frank Apologist.  I'm not a Frank Sucks Denier.  I just like having sincere conversations that are not incessantly tainted with comments designed to gather support for blaming Frank.  They spoil each thread in the forum.

 

As far a who the GM is or what role he has, I don't care if its Ballard, Grigson, Frank, or some new person.  I'll judge them on their ability to secure top talent at the QB, EDGE, LT, and Flanker spots.  First task is to learn how important they are relative to other spots.  I hope Irsay doesn't fire Ballard.  I'd rather see Ballard do better than have Irsay break in a new person.

Its not deflective.  Its precisely to the point about narratives.

 

When Ballard made good picks in 2018 and 2020, nobody suggested it was a collaboration. 

 

When it was about RG, the narrative was that he was in charge and he picked Werner and TRich...without exception.  Those two picks are a big part of the narrative "he sucked".  The narrative became a demonstrable fact to some, even though nobody asked how much he was really in charge. 

 

If its reasonable to speculate now that Frank had a hand in the (bad) picks, and pounded his fists for his favorite QB or gave his thumbs up to Pryor, then its reasonable to speculate that Pagano pounded his fists for his Elephant 43 DE Bjoern Werner.  And gave his thumbs up to the rolling ball of butcher knives RB. 

 

When the narrative is so strong...such a mob pile on,....so pervasive that people render "grigson sucked" as being a demonstrable fact,  any reasonable, straight down the middle question about how that demonstrable fact was arrived at is thought to be a "defense" of Grigson.  By folks like @NFLfan.   

 

And then the the person gets labeled an Apologist.   Maybe in other circles, I'd be labeled a "Denier."  IMO, labels like that are what's deflective.

[Moosejawcolt]

19 hours ago, DougDew said:

Huh?  Where have I said anything about whether I KNOW anything about what Irsay thinks.  Unless anybody was in the room with the three of them, nobody here has a clue.  And their speculation about it is no more valid than Bill Tobin's Postman's. 

 

What Irsay thinks is a conversation you are having in this thread. 

 

In fact, there have been other comments in this forum about other positions than QB.  When Pryor was struggling, there was speculation offered that his $6M starters contract was because Reich probably recommended it to Ballard.  Yes, the entire "we don't know (who)" narrative is all about deflecting potential blame away from Ballard...more directly...its about continuing to point the blame towards Frank, even when the convo shifts from on the field stuff to personnel, which its bound to do through the offseason.  God help us all.

 

The topic of what Irsay thinks is a subset of that discussion.  But it flows in the same direction.  If Irsay blames Frank, then it validates an opinion that we should also blame Frank for the personnel.

 

And no, I don't care about Frank.  I'm not committing forum heresy.  I'm not a Frank Apologist.  I'm not a Frank Sucks Denier.  I just like having sincere conversations that are not incessantly tainted with comments designed to gather support for blaming Frank.  They spoil each thread in the forum.

 

As far a who the GM is or what role he has, I don't care if its Ballard, Grigson, Frank, or some new person.  I'll judge them on their ability to secure top talent at the QB, EDGE, LT, and Flanker spots.  First task is to learn how important they are relative to other spots.  I hope Irsay doesn't fire Ballard.  I'd rather see Ballard do better than have Irsay break in a new person.

Its not deflective.  Its precisely to the point about narratives.

 

When Ballard made good picks in 2018 and 2020, nobody suggested it was a collaboration. 

 

When it was about RG, the narrative was that he was in charge and he picked Werner and TRich...without exception.  Those two picks are a big part of the narrative "he sucked".  The narrative became a demonstrable fact to some, even though nobody asked how much he was really in charge. 

 

If its reasonable to speculate now that Frank had a hand in the (bad) picks, and pounded his fists for his favorite QB or gave his thumbs up to Pryor, then its reasonable to speculate that Pagano pounded his fists for his Elephant 43 DE Bjoern Werner.  And gave his thumbs up to the rolling ball of butcher knives RB. 

 

When the narrative is so strong...such a mob pile on,....so pervasive that people render "grigson sucked" as being a demonstrable fact,  any reasonable, straight down the middle question about how that demonstrable fact was arrived at is thought to be a "defense" of Grigson.  By folks like @NFLfan.   

 

And then the the person gets labeled an Apologist.   Maybe in other circles, I'd be labeled a "Denier."  IMO, labels like that are what's deflective.

I think people are discounting the level of dysfunction with this team. It was reported that Irsay loved Saturday  and wants him badly to succeed. He takes him out of the booth and  gives him the keys. Now  here we r  only 2 weeks later and we hear   that Irsay is targeting Harbaugh.  Is no one else seeing that Irsay has no idea what he is doing?  I was listening to a pod cast this week and they were not even talking about the Colts. One of them said u know  when u don't know anything about an owner. That's probably a good thing. Since last year,  Irsay has been front and center in the news about the Colts and other NFL issues. Payton or Harbaugh ain't coming here unless they have  dictatorial powers and a take of the franchise lol.

[AKB]

20 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think people are discounting the level of dysfunction with this team. It was reported that Irsay loved Saturday  and wants him badly to succeed. He takes him out of the booth and  gives him the keys. Now  here we r  only 2 weeks later and we hear   that Irsay is targeting Harbaugh.  Is no one else seeing that Irsay has no idea what he is doing?  I was listening to a pod cast this week and they were not even talking about the Colts. One of them said u know  when u don't know anything about an owner. That's probably a good thing. Since last year,  Irsay has been front and center in the news about the Colts and other NFL issues. Payton or Harbaugh ain't coming here unless they have  dictatorial powers and a take of the franchise lol.

has no idea what he's doing? i think that's taking things a bit far. he signed a guy to maintain interest in the team while we find our next QB, and coach.  

 

 

[DougDew]

51 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think people are discounting the level of dysfunction with this team. It was reported that Irsay loved Saturday  and wants him badly to succeed. He takes him out of the booth and  gives him the keys. Now  here we r  only 2 weeks later and we hear   that Irsay is targeting Harbaugh.  Is no one else seeing that Irsay has no idea what he is doing?  I was listening to a pod cast this week and they were not even talking about the Colts. One of them said u know  when u don't know anything about an owner. That's probably a good thing. Since last year,  Irsay has been front and center in the news about the Colts and other NFL issues. Payton or Harbaugh ain't coming here unless they have  dictatorial powers and a take of the franchise lol.

I wouldn't criticize Irsay for the interim coaching hire.  I think he took an honest look at the team compared to the rest of the AFC and figured he needed more of an honest evaluator than a guy who can win a couple of games.

 

But I do think if the players don't have clear sense of who is in charge, or that guy can be cast off in a spat of anger, it tears down any culture that has been built and also magnifies any faults.

 

I think the Harbaugh convo with Irsay was just about them sharing memories, not about coaching the Colts.  Harbaugh is kind of a flaky unpredictable personality that just might try it, but I don't see why he would.  

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, AustinnKaine said:

has no idea what he's doing? i think that's taking things a bit far. he signed a guy to maintain interest in the team while we find our next QB, and coach.  

 

 

Really what has this team done without one hall of fame qb and another who was on his way to being kne?

[Moosejawcolt]

47 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I wouldn't criticize Irsay for the interim coaching hire.  I think he took an honest look at the team compared to the rest of the AFC and figured he needed more of an honest evaluator than a guy who can win a couple of games.

 

But I do think if the players don't have clear sense of who is in charge, or that guy can be cast off in a spat of anger, it tears down any culture that has been built and also magnifies any faults.

 

I think the Harbaugh convo with Irsay was just about them sharing memories, not about coaching the Colts.  Harbaugh is kind of a flaky unpredictable personality that just might try it, but I don't see why he would.  

U know what is sad is this. The AFC South is a mess. Sam was Irsay's move. What if we went with Foles  instead of Sam?

[Moosejawcolt]

21 hours ago, DougDew said:

Huh? Where have I said anything about whether I KNOW anything about what Irsay thinks. Unless anybody was in the room with the three of them, nobody here has a clue. And their speculation about it is no more valid than Bill Tobin's Postman's. 

 

 

 

What Irsay thinks is a conversation you are having in this thread. 

 

 

 

In fact, there have been other comments in this forum about other positions than QB. When Pryor was struggling, there was speculation offered that his $6M starters contract was because Reich probably recommended it to Ballard. Yes, the entire "we don't know (who)" narrative is all about deflecting potential blame away from Ballard...more directly...its about continuing to point the blame towards Frank, even when the convo shifts from on the field stuff to personnel, which its bound to do through the offseason. God help us all.

 

 

 

The topic of what Irsay thinks is a subset of that discussion. But it flows in the same direction. If Irsay blames Frank, then it validates an opinion that we should also blame Frank for the personnel.

 

 

 

And no, I don't care about Frank. I'm not committing forum heresy. I'm not a Frank Apologist. I'm not a Frank Sucks Denier. I just like having sincere conversations that are not incessantly tainted with comments designed to gather support for blaming Frank. They spoil each thread in the forum.

 

 

 

As far a who the GM is or what role he has, I don't care if its Ballard, Grigson, Frank, or some new person. I'll judge them on their ability to secure top talent at the QB, EDGE, LT, and Flanker spots. First task is to learn how important they are relative to other spots. I hope Irsay doesn't fire Ballard. I'd rather see Ballard do better than have Irsay break in a new person.

 

Its not deflective. Its precisely to the point about narratives.

 

 

 

When Ballard made good picks in 2018 and 2020, nobody suggested it was a collaboration. 

 

 

 

When it was about RG, the narrative was that he was in charge and he picked Werner and TRich...without exception. Those two picks are a big part of the narrative "he sucked". The narrative became a demonstrable fact to some, even though nobody asked how much he was really in charge. 

 

 

 

If its reasonable to speculate now that Frank had a hand in the (bad) picks, and pounded his fists for his favorite QB or gave his thumbs up to Pryor, then its reasonable to speculate that Pagano pounded his fists for his Elephant 43 DE Bjoern Werner. And gave his thumbs up to the rolling ball of butcher knives RB. 

 

 

 

When the narrative is so strong...such a mob pile on,....so pervasive that people render "grigson sucked" as being a demonstrable fact, any reasonable, straight down the middle question about how that demonstrable fact was arrived at is thought to be a "defense" of Grigson. By folks like @NFLfan.   

 

 

 

And then the the person gets labeled an Apologist. Maybe in other circles, I'd be labeled a "Denier." IMO, labels like that are what's deflective.

 

 

People want to point to first starts and say  see Frank was the problem . Well the Oline  has played better.  New play caller,  so teams are not use to his play calling but adapt in the 2nd quarter. Ryan still sucks but is turning the ball over less in the 1st half.  They had a ton of turnovers in the red  zone under Frank but people want to forget.bout that. People are also all over the 1st half and saying wow what an improvement. So what about these monumental collapse? Can we blame Frank for that?  I am not saying Frank didn't need to go. I have always said he was far more valuable to this team than Ballard.  Look at this roster and show me that players that we need to keep moving forward. I am also dismissing salary cap implications. This team may have a couple of    cant trade players on this roster.  Honestly, I can't name any.  In the off season, every player is tradeable if the price is right.

[Superman]

On 12/23/2022 at 4:56 PM, DougDew said:

Huh?  Where have I said anything about whether I KNOW anything about what Irsay thinks.  Unless anybody was in the room with the three of them, nobody here has a clue.  And their speculation about it is no more valid than Bill Tobin's Postman's. 

 

What Irsay thinks is a conversation you are having in this thread. 

 

In fact, there have been other comments in this forum about other positions than QB.  When Pryor was struggling, there was speculation offered that his $6M starters contract was because Reich probably recommended it to Ballard.  Yes, the entire "we don't know (who)" narrative is all about deflecting potential blame away from Ballard...more directly...its about continuing to point the blame towards Frank, even when the convo shifts from on the field stuff to personnel, which its bound to do through the offseason.  God help us all.

 

The topic of what Irsay thinks is a of that .  But it flows in the .  If Irsay blames Frank, then it validates an opinion that we should also blame Frank for the .

 

And no, I don't care about Frank.  I'm not committing forum .  I'm not a Frank .  I'm not a Frank Sucks Denier.  I just like having sincere conversations that are not incessantly tainted with comments designed to gather support for blaming Frank.  They spoil each thread in the forum.

 

As far a who the GM is or what he has, I don't care if its Ballard, Grigson, Frank, or some new .  I'll judge them on their ability to secure top talent at the QB, EDGE, LT, and Flanker spots.  First task is to learn how important they are relative to other spots.  I hope Irsay doesn't fire Ballard.  I'd rather see Ballard do better than have Irsay break in a new person.

Its not deflective.  Its precisely to the point about narratives.

 

When Ballard made good picks in 2018 and 2020, nobody suggested it was a collaboration. 

 

When it was about RG, the narrative was that he was in charge and he picked Werner and TRich...without exception.  Those two picks are a big part of the narrative "he sucked".  The narrative became a demonstrable fact to some, even though nobody asked how much he was really in charge. 

 

If its reasonable to speculate now that Frank had a hand in the (bad) picks, and pounded his fists for his favorite QB or gave his thumbs up to Pryor, then its reasonable to speculate that Pagano pounded his fists for his Elephant 43 DE Bjoern Werner.  And gave his thumbs up to the rolling ball of butcher knives RB. 

 

When the narrative is so strong...such a mob pile on,....so pervasive that people render "grigson sucked" as being a demonstrable fact,  any reasonable, straight down the middle question about how that demonstrable fact was arrived at is thought to be a "defense" of Grigson.  By folks like @NFLfan.   

 

And then the gets labeled an .   Maybe in other circles, I'd be labeled a "Denier."  IMO, labels like that are what's deflective.

 

We're never going to agree on this. 

[DougDew]

20 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

People want to point to first starts and say  see Frank was the problem . Well the Oline  has played better.  New play caller,  so teams are not use to his play calling but adapt in the 2nd quarter. Ryan still sucks but is turning the ball over less in the 1st half.  They had a ton of turnovers in the red  zone under Frank but people want to forget.bout that. People are also all over the 1st half and saying wow what an improvement. So what about these monumental collapse? Can we blame Frank for that?  I am not saying Frank didn't need to go. I have always said he was far more valuable to this team than Ballard.  Look at this roster and show me that players that we need to keep moving forward. I am also dismissing salary cap implications. This team may have a couple of    cant trade players on this roster.  Honestly, I can't name any.  In the off season, every player is tradeable if the price is right.

Ballard runs the draft room,  Its on tape that he does. 

 

The scouts look at pre-draft player tape and they and Ballard look at RAS scores.  I'm sure Frank has input into college players, but he's not doing the picking.  He's not the person taking a wide out over a TE at pick 53.  Its on video showing Ballard choosing Pierce over Woods after some deliberation with scouts, but Reich was not a part of the deliberation at that point.  He's probably telling Ballard he likes both players prior to the draft, but Ballard chose Pierce over Woods at pick 53 after mulling it over with his staff.  Its on video.  It so happened that Woods was available at 77 so he picked him too. 

 

Draft day has its own life, and the players fall as they do.  Ballard is the one picking the players, executing the trades, etc,.  He is trying to get players that fit into the things Frank tells him the offense needs, but Ballard responsible for each and every specific player that's on the roster.  And is responsible for every specific player that is not on this roster.   

 

Of course "we don't know this"

 

And, we don't know any of this either, but Irsay acting like its a three-man deliberation, just like what he did with Pagano/Grigs, could simply be a deflection tactic.  It muddies the waters as to who is responsible for what.  Irsay's statements have successfully shielded any one of them from direct attack by the media, because there is perpetual "uncertainty" as to anybody's true authority.  We don't know this, though.

 

I would assume that Irsay fired Frank because he thought the coaching was not up to par.  That the players were no longer responding, and it was very apparent that Reich did not have any answers or means of thinking out of the box to right the ship.  He was struggling in many aspects.   I doubt that the firing had anything to do with the personnel on the team.  To question that even seems odd to me...that he was fired because of the QB roster situation and discounting the coaching.  He was certainly not responsible for bringing Ryan here by himself.  But we don't know this.

[DougDew]

21 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U know what is sad is this. The AFC South is a mess. Sam was Irsay's move. What if we went with Foles  instead of Sam?

IDK.  I haven't seen Foles play in about three years.  My impression is that he is not very mobile and does not have that strong of an arm, kinda like Ryan but just a little better in both areas. 

 

I've read conflicting statements on that.  Arm talent was one of the knocks on him by many here when we were looking at possible FA vets.  But now since Sam is in the mix, I've read more favorable comments about Foles here than I used to.

[Moosejawcolt]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Ballard runs the draft room,  Its on tape that he does. 

 

The scouts look at pre-draft player tape and they and Ballard look at RAS scores.  I'm sure Frank has input into college players, but he's not doing the picking.  He's not the person taking a wide out over a TE at pick 53.  Its on video showing Ballard choosing Pierce over Woods after some deliberation with scouts, but Reich was not a part of the deliberation at that point.  He's probably telling Ballard he likes both players prior to the draft, but Ballard chose Pierce over Woods at pick 53 after mulling it over with his staff.  Its on video.  It so happened that Woods was available at 77 so he picked him too. 

 

Draft day has its own life, and the players fall as they do.  Ballard is the one picking the players, executing the trades, etc,.  He is trying to get players that fit into the things Frank tells him the offense needs, but Ballard responsible for each and every specific player that's on the roster.  And is responsible for every specific player that is not on this roster.   

 

Of course "we don't know this"

 

And, we don't know any of this either, but Irsay acting like its a three-man deliberation, just like what he did with Pagano/Grigs, could simply be a deflection tactic.  It muddies the waters as to who is responsible for what.  Irsay's statements have successfully shielded any one of them from direct attack by the media, because there is perpetual "uncertainty" as to anybody's true authority.  We don't know this, though.

 

I would assume that Irsay fired Frank because he thought the coaching was not up to par.  That the players were no longer responding, and it was very apparent that Reich did not have any answers or means of thinking out of the box to right the ship.  He was struggling in many aspects.   I doubt that the firing had anything to do with the personnel on the team.  To question that even seems odd to me...that he was fired because of the QB roster situation and discounting the coaching.  He was certainly not responsible for bringing Ryan here by himself.  But we don't know this.

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, Moosejawcolt said:

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Ballard runs the draft room,  Its on tape that he does. 

 

The scouts look at pre-draft player tape and they and Ballard look at RAS scores.  I'm sure Frank has input into college players, but he's not doing the picking.  He's not the person taking a wide out over a TE at pick 53.  Its on video showing Ballard choosing Pierce over Woods after some deliberation with scouts, but Reich was not a part of the deliberation at that point.  He's probably telling Ballard he likes both players prior to the draft, but Ballard chose Pierce over Woods at pick 53 after mulling it over with his staff.  Its on video.  It so happened that Woods was available at 77 so he picked him too. 

 

Draft day has its own life, and the players fall as they do.  Ballard is the one picking the players, executing the trades, etc,.  He is trying to get players that fit into the things Frank tells him the offense needs, but Ballard responsible for each and every specific player that's on the roster.  And is responsible for every specific player that is not on this roster.   

 

Of course "we don't know this"

 

And, we don't know any of this either, but Irsay acting like its a three-man deliberation, just like what he did with Pagano/Grigs, could simply be a deflection tactic.  It muddies the waters as to who is responsible for what.  Irsay's statements have successfully shielded any one of them from direct attack by the media, because there is perpetual "uncertainty" as to anybody's true authority.  We don't know this, though.

 

I would assume that Irsay fired Frank because he thought the coaching was not up to par.  That the players were no longer responding, and it was very apparent that Reich did not have any answers or means of thinking out of the box to right the ship.  He was struggling in many aspects.   I doubt that the firing had anything to do with the personnel on the team.  To question that even seems odd to me...that he was fired because of the QB roster situation and discounting the coaching.  He was certainly not responsible for bringing Ryan here by himself.  But we don't know this.

Expand  

So now we r shifting the blame  from Ballard building this team. Before the narrative was Ballard was  an elite GM in this league as Leonard and Neslon were  future hall of farmers. Now that this team   has become a  dumpster fire since the last  2 games of the season. The narrative is that of course it is a 2 or  even a 3 amn team in terms of building this team involving Fran, Ballard and now even Irsay. I never heard this before when people on this board were praising Ballard. Well how bout this . If we are now to  blame Frank for not only the coaching and  building of this team. I suggest that we may now want to blame Ballard for the coaching as well. Hey for all we know. Maybe he was calling down  plays and telling Frank how to draw up plays and scheme for teams. Sounds silly doesn't it???? I go back to this quote from Bill.

It's a quote by former NFL head coach Bill Parcells that says, "You are what your record says you are." The point is that you can't reason distance between you and what you accomplish (or don't accomplish.) Results speak for themselves. The rest of the speaking we do is generally everything else.

[Nickster]

On 12/23/2022 at 7:21 PM, DougDew said:

Good points.  Its really about having an open mind when forming an opinion about....in the end...stuff that doesn't matter, IMO.  

 

I like stability.  I'm never about firing someone, or about thinking they suck.  I want them to do better.  Maybe that's why I'm seen as a Grigson or Frank Apologist.   I point out what I think the issue is...or is not....and others seem to go right to blaming a person responsible for those issues, and then assume I have an opinion of that person because I raised a issue.   Its a weird dynamic that just makes a dart for blaming a HC, a GM, or an owner, instead of discussing a problem.  It stifles conversation, IMO.

 

Love this.  I’m a Conversation Apologist.

 

But I am for incinerating of Ballard in a conflagration that would make the inferno in Chicago in 1871 look like a weenie roast.  I think we have stability.  We’ve been solidly mediocre for approaching a decade and are now bad.

 

I think the club needs a reboot.  If in fact Ballard has been handcuffed by Irsay for which it appears to me there is some evidence, circumstantial and speculative though not direct, then it probably doesn’t matter who is the GM.

 

I don’t see how this ship turns with the current roster unless we somehow get lucky this draft and get immediate production from new cheap draftees in the most difficult positions to fill. 
 

If we get lucky and hit on a QB, then a lot of ugly can get covered up.

[Nickster]

On 12/23/2022 at 9:55 PM, EastStreet said:

Frank got fired, and the team got worse???

Lol... great talk.. 

the record is a lot worse.  Last I checked 1-4 is clearly worse than 3-5-1.

 

oh yeah, we also have 2 historic collapses in a row to add to Jeff’s resume.

 

Yeah East this is a great talk lol.

[Nickster]

On 12/23/2022 at 10:34 PM, AustinnKaine said:

interesting response. quality. 

That’s his MO.  The stats guru has nothing to stand on.  1 and 4 including the worse quarter since 1925 and the worse collapse in the history of the league.  
 

this is his evidence that Saturday has been better than Frank.  Even for East it’s a Soviet style Doublethink advocacy for his thesis that the problem was Frank.  Like a Sith Lord he deals in absolutes.

 

@EastStreet I haven’t seen you defending your son Matt Pryor lately.  Or talking about how great MAC is.  Soon you will be forced to drop your Reich was the problem narrative too.  It too will simply be sucked down a pneumatic tube and ignored.

 

 

[coltsva]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

 

I think the club needs a reboot.  If in fact Ballard has been handcuffed by Irsay for which it appears to me there is some evidence, circumstantial and speculative though not direct, then it probably doesn’t matter who is the GM.

 

 

IMO, if the bolded is true, Ballard will leave after the season, in a "we've decided to part ways" scenario. He doesn't seem like a guy who would stay in a job where he has to deal with a meddling owner. He'd get out of this mess with his reputation intact, with most people assuming his hands were tied by Irsay. Career wise, it's keeps him in the mix for other GM jobs, despite having an average 6 years in Indy. 

 

 

[DougDew]

8 hours ago, Nickster said:

I don’t see how this ship turns with the current roster unless we somehow get lucky this draft and get immediate production from new cheap draftees in the most difficult positions to fill. 

Pierce, Pitt, Woods, Paye, Raimann are young players in important positions that give me some hope that Ballard can allocate capital properly.  Too bad that another HC will get the benefit of their improving play.  

 

QB, EDGE, OT, and Flanker (to replace PC) are positions that can still be upgraded with a top 7 picks. 

[Moosejawcolt]

On 12/23/2022 at 9:35 PM, EastStreet said:

 

Our O has been a wreck the last two years, mostly because the QB and the OL. The D has been better than average. Not perfect, but better than average. But the the OL and QB has been the biggest issue. The OL is playing better now. Not great, but Raimann has been better than Fisher in the last 4 games. The RB is great. WR has been fine. TE has been fine. Both Woods and the other rook are very promising. Frank didn't use TEs much, except small HB/TEs (Burton and Granson). 

 

The roster doesn't suck. If we had better coaching, or a better QB, or both.... we would have a better team. 

U know I  was listening to s GM and he' was talking about  games this weekend. He talked about  how your best players take over the game in the late stages or u rely in those  players to win u hame late. He was talking bout thr Bikings with Jefferson, Cook and Coisins. He also talked about other teams.  Then I thought about it and to  me this really defines Ballard's lack of success in  drafting  premium players. Who do we have on those roster who  the Colts rely on to make plays on offence? I really couldn't think of one.

[Nickster]

6 hours ago, DougDew said:

Pierce, Pitt, Woods, Paye, Raimann are young players in important positions that give me some hope that Ballard can allocate capital properly.  Too bad that another HC will get the benefit of their improving play.  

 

QB, EDGE, OT, and Flanker (to replace PC) are positions that can still be upgraded with a top 7 picks. 

I’m unimpressed with Pierce.  He seems to rarely get open.  He makes tough catches with guys draped on his back like mink stoles but I’d be more encouraged seeing him make more catches with green space between him and those stoles.  Pitt is aw ight but far from special,  woods has to get schemed open, he’s very clunky and pretty Much a mac clone.  I like Paye.  But he isn’t ever going to be a superstar sack man IMO.  Raimann has progressed well.  Might be the guy which would be great.

 

But I think we are going to need cheap superstar level qbing to be good.   
 

[Boondoggle]

I wouldn't mind seeing Saturday kept around as OL coach.  But outside of that yes this was always fated to be a disaster.  And it will get worse after the offseason when Frank's coaching staff bail out and we see the coaches Jeff will attract for 2023.

 

So it has to be over at the end of the season.  And if not then this team has a lot more losing ahead next year.

[bluebombers87]

I think it’s a legit question to ask what we gained from firing Frank mid season. Not whether or not he needed to be fired but why mid season? All the Al Bundy types who called for it and seal clapped when it happened obviously didn’t think it through. We then we’re labeled as “apologists” for daring to question the party line.

 

To me all it did was show prospective HC candidates that we are a dumpster fire. Don’t get me wrong, we are, but you have to at least put on a good face to get a candidate.

 

My worry is that we will have scared away any talent at HC.

[bluephantom87]

On 12/23/2022 at 10:40 PM, AustinnKaine said:

I never said the roster sucked.  But you are what your record says you are.

 

Since ballard, we are an 8-8 team.  So, Ballard is a .500 GM. the Colts are a.500 team.  We haven't won the division in half a decade. We haven't accomplished anything under Ballard except medicore results. 

 

Frank got fired, team got worse. Wentz got cut, team got worse.  Autry, Houston, Reed, Glow all walked, team got worse.  Oline got worse because "the media wanted him to take a WR" , he didn't take a QB cause "he'd get run out of town if it isn't the right guy"

 

and it goes on. and on. and on. 

 

He needs to be held responsibile just like everyone else. 

 

It's funny that teams that have accomplished more have fired their GM.  actually hilarious. 

 

This ^

[DougDew]

13 hours ago, Nickster said:

I’m unimpressed with Pierce.  He seems to rarely get open.  He makes tough catches with guys draped on his back like mink stoles but I’d be more encouraged seeing him make more catches with green space between him and those stoles.  Pitt is aw ight but far from special,  woods has to get schemed open, he’s very clunky and pretty Much a mac clone.  I like Paye.  But he isn’t ever going to be a superstar sack man IMO.  Raimann has progressed well.  Might be the guy which would be great.

 

But I think we are going to need cheap superstar level qbing to be good.   
 

Woods is my least favorite of those guys.  Clunky is a good description, but excessively tall guys can be that way, RAS score aside.  I think there were better all around TEs in the draft but Woods had the best RAS profile and was Ballard's target it sounds like.  Ballard was going to pick him a round higher but opted for Pierce.  I think Pierce can be a good X,,,more physical than Pitt.