Baker or Ryan - Pros/Cons and who do you Prefer?

[Indeee]

Moderators...

 

Based on the overwhelming response of favoritism shown towards Ryan over Mayfield as the Colts next QB, this thread needs to be locked on sheer stupidity alone

 

Just saying... 

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

3 hours ago, Smonroe said:

Baker’s pros: Mobility, arm strength, accuracy on the move, the need to prove others wrong.

 

Baker’s cons: Immaturity, size, durability, coachable? 
 

Ryan’ pros:  Extremely intelligent pre and post snap, accuracy, experience 

 

Ryan’s cons:  Age, arm strength, mobility, cost?

 

First, do people agree (I know I didn’t go into detail).

 

Second, which one do you prefer.   None of the above is a choice too.

Here is how I look at it. Eagles  got rid of Wentz because they thought he was done. Not worth it.  The  Browns gave up the farm to move on from Mayfield because they think he has reached his potential.  If the  Falcons move on from  Ryan it is not because  he  is done.  He has trade value and they want to save cap space and get younger .  Is this fan base ready for Wentz 2.0 all over again? I am not and I think that is what you're will get with Baker.

[Boss7894]

Probably Baker

[Colt.45]

Ryan. He's a QB at least. The other guy is still figuring the position out.

[SteelDragon]

Matt Ryan was my choice after Russell was traded.  Best way to dig out of this hole is a 2 or 3 year stop-gap measure until we get some draft capital.  Put the right pieces around Ryan and we could vie for a Super Bowl while grooming a young QB. Ballard needs to open up Irsay's pocketbook and sign some difference makers.

Short of that, might as well tank and start rebuilding

[BlackTiger]

Carson is better than Baker i dont see any reason to want him after what we just went through 

 

We could be solid with Matt Ryan

[jchandler7]

Matt Ryan by a landslide! 

[2006Coltsbestever]

[Zoltan]

I’d still prefer a FA quarterback over trading for one. But of these two I would go with Baker because of his one year contract and age. 

[Hawkeyecolt]

Accuracy shouldn’t have been listed as a pro for Mayfield. 

[r a y s k i]

4 hours ago, SteelDragon said:

Matt Ryan was my choice after Russell was traded.  Best way to dig out of this hole is a 2 or 3 year stop-gap measure until we get some draft capital.  Put the right pieces around Ryan and we could vie for a Super Bowl while grooming a young QB. Ballard needs to open up Irsay's pocketbook and sign some difference makers.

Short of that, might as well tank and start rebuilding

Difference makers (players in their prime) rarely if ever sign to come to Indianapolis, not even w a HoF qb at the wheel…it is what it is, ain’t just on Ballard, players need to want to come to Indy…

 

 

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

Accuracy shouldn’t have been listed as a pro for Mayfield. 

It was in college

[Smonroe]

12 hours ago, Indeee said:

Moderators...

 

Based on the overwhelming response of favoritism shown towards Ryan over Mayfield as the Colts next QB, this thread needs to be locked on sheer stupidity alone

 

Just saying... 

 

 

Since I’m one of those less intelligent people who prefer Ryan, maybe I don’t understand you.  
 

Are you saying it’s a no brainer (pun intended) that Baker should be the choice?

 

The prevailing argument for him seems to be his age and how cheap we can get him.  Not exactly pro QB qualities in my mind.  But, as you pointed out, apparently I’m not that bright.  

[Indeee]

4 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

Since I’m one of those less intelligent people who prefer Ryan, maybe I don’t understand you.  
 

Are you saying it’s a no brainer (pun intended) that Baker should be the choice?

 

The prevailing argument for him seems to be his age and how cheap we can get him.  Not exactly pro QB qualities in my mind.  But, as you pointed out, apparently I’m not that bright.  

Mayfield is the no brainer choice here, absolutely. 

 

Ryan would be nothing more than Rivers 2.0 and continue this team down the "Old man" spiral into nothingness. Just so this team can have a "name" behind center? A respected past his prime name? Stupid.

 

Mayfield is the only QB who would give you the potential for long-term and short-term possibility. Ryan is short term only. Ryan, forces the Colts to draft a QB next year 1000% percent and if anyone here thinks the Colts would be in great shape with Ryan past more than one year and believe drafting a QB isn't on the table 1000% next year, needs to check out.

 

If drafting a QB mandatory next year is as I say it would be, and it would be with Ryan here, then you don't give up picks and pay Ryan's higher salary for the year, you give up picks or not and pay the QB lower salary which Mayfield would be or what Mariota would be. 

[Smonroe]

11 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Mayfield is the no brainer choice here, absolutely. 

 

Ryan would be nothing more than Rivers 2.0 and continue this team down the "Old man" spiral into nothingness. Just so this team can have a "name" behind center? A respected past his prime name? Stupid.

 

Mayfield is the only QB who would give you the potential for long-term and short-term possibility. Ryan is short term only. Ryan, forces the Colts to draft a QB next year 1000% percent and if anyone here thinks the Colts would be in great shape with Ryan past more than one year and believe drafting a QB isn't on the table 1000% next year, needs to check out.

 

If drafting a QB mandatory next year is as I say it would be, and it would be with Ryan here, then you don't give up picks and pay Ryan's higher salary for the year, you give up picks or not and pay the QB lower salary which Mayfield would be or what Mariota would be. 

Okay, simple question from a simple man - Who is the better QB?

 

Not asking who is cheaper, who has more years, who saves draft picks.  Just who is better right now?

 

If your answer is still Baker, then we’ll just have to continue to disagree and stop here.  
 

 

[BlackTiger]

15 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Ryan would be nothing more than Rivers 2.0 and continue this team down the "Old man" spiral into nothingness

Rivers wasnt a bad thing for us.  we went 11-5 and had a good year

 

Matt Ryan wants a three contract, thats long enough for me to take him.  Baker was worse than Carson in pretty much every way, why would we dump him for that?  His best year still wasnt better than Carson 

[Smonroe]

9 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

Rivers wasnt a bad thing for us.  we went 11-5 and had a good year

 

Matt Ryan wants a three contract, thats long enough for me to take him.  Baker was worse than Carson in pretty much every way, why would we dump him for that?  His best year still wasnt better than Carson 

 

If we do get Baker, I hope that he comes in with the right attitude.  The "I want to prove the world wrong!" attitude.

 

The Browns situation should have been a wake up call for him.  People were saying he was over-drafted, immature, and resistant to coaching.  Add a shoulder injury to that, and it's not exactly a great resume.

 

There are more examples of older QBs proving to be the right choice than there are of 6' QBs making it in the league.

[CheezyColt]

49 minutes ago, Indeee said:

Mayfield is the no brainer choice here, absolutely. 

 

Ryan would be nothing more than Rivers 2.0 and continue this team down the "Old man" spiral into nothingness. Just so this team can have a "name" behind center? A respected past his prime name? Stupid.

 

Mayfield is the only QB who would give you the potential for long-term and short-term possibility. Ryan is short term only. Ryan, forces the Colts to draft a QB next year 1000% percent and if anyone here thinks the Colts would be in great shape with Ryan past more than one year and believe drafting a QB isn't on the table 1000% next year, needs to check out.

 

If drafting a QB mandatory next year is as I say it would be, and it would be with Ryan here, then you don't give up picks and pay Ryan's higher salary for the year, you give up picks or not and pay the QB lower salary which Mayfield would be or what Mariota would be. 

I think it depends what you think we're looking for.  I don't think either of Ryan (due to age) or Baker (due to potential) are the long term answer at QB.  It's time for Chris and Frank to find a guy they like in the draft, and go get him.  2022 or 2023.  Meanwhile, get someone that can play here for 2 years while we figure out who the next guy is.

 

This was a very bad year for Irsay to go "all chips in" on the fanbase, lol.  Especially while forcing the starting QB out with no clear upgrade on the horizon.

[RomanianColtsFan]

Matty Ice definitely, at least makes the Colts competitive for at least next couple of years.

[Stephen]

7 minutes ago, RomanianColtsFan said:

Matty Ice definitely, at least makes the Colts competitive for at least next couple of years.

I believe Matt Ryan can play atleast three years. That would give us three years to find a suitable replacement

[Stephen]

If we go with Mayfield it wouldn't be smart to dump him after one year like Wentz. Need stability at qb to win

[RomanianColtsFan]

1 minute ago, Stephen said:

I believe Matt Ryan can play atleast three years. That would give us three years to find a suitable replacement

Yes, very much possible, after all he’s even younger than Rodgers, to whom Packers just gave a long term contact (didn’t want to bring up Tom Blanda Brady   )

[Stephen]

6 minutes ago, RomanianColtsFan said:

Yes, very much possible, after all he’s even younger than Rodgers, to whom Packers just gave a long term contact (didn’t want to bring up Tom Blanda Brady   )

Ryan may be able to play into forties it depends on how fast his arn strength declines. From what I've seen his arm is still good and much better than rivers when he was here 

[Indeee]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

Okay, simple question from a simple man - Who is the better QB?

 

Not asking who is cheaper, who has more years, who saves draft picks.  Just who is better right now?

 

If your answer is still Baker, then we’ll just have to continue to disagree and stop here.  
 

 

I love Matt Ryan; always have thought he was very underrated. With that said, at this stage of the game, Baker is better for this team. Mobility especially as this team has currently no LT and was abysmal pass blockers one year ago. Not a good fit for an immobile Ryan. We can disagree no worries

[Smonroe]

13 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Ryan may be able to play into forties it depends on how fast his arn strength declines. From what I've seen his arm is still good and much better than rivers when he was here 

 

If he can play as well as he did with that (un)supporting cast he had last year, we'll be way ahead.

 

Get him for three years, draft a QB in next years strong class, and let him mentor him.

 

I understand that Baker is younger, has a gun slinger mentality, and may be cheaper.  His immaturity and size are his biggest cons, IMHO.  I don't think anyone could argue that he's a better QB than Ryan.

[Goatface Killah]

17 minutes ago, Indeee said:

I love Matt Ryan; always have thought he was very underrated. With that said, at this stage of the game, Baker is better for this team. Mobility especially as this team has currently no LT and was abysmal pass blockers one year ago. Not a good fit for an immobile Ryan. We can disagree no worries

"We can disagree no worries"

 

One post earlier.........calls people who prefer Ryan "stupid".

 

Your reasoning for wanting Baker is pretty absurd.  He isnt a good QB but you prefer him because he can run around and throw ints. Cmon man. 

 

[Colt.45]

If you prefer Baker because of age, then just go get any of the FA QBs instead of spending priceless picks on a QB who is average at best. We've gone thru this whole "old team couldn't fix ya but we have QB fixers here and can do the job" phase. Apparently some of us don't learn.

 

If you're spending draft picks on an old QB then you'd better be getting the best one possible, and Ryan >>>>>>> Baker. I missed one > 

They're not the same quality at all. Baker might be better in the future, who knows.....but going off what they've shown us in the NFL, Baker is a Baker, Matt is a Cook. Scouts will know what i mean.

[Stephen]

31 minutes ago, Indeee said:

I love Matt Ryan; always have thought he was very underrated. With that said, at this stage of the game, Baker is better for this team. Mobility especially as this team has currently no LT and was abysmal pass blockers one year ago. Not a good fit for an immobile Ryan. We can disagree no worries

This statement is false Ryan still has plenty of mobility. Most of his throws in 2021 were on the run because his online was bad.

[Smonroe]

3 minutes ago, Stephen said:

This statement is false Ryan still has plenty of mobility. Most of his throws in 2021 were on the run because his online was bad.

 

I keep going back to - No one saying Baker is a better QB than Ryan.  They just say that he'd be cheap and he's young.

 

Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady wouldn't agree that those are necessarily positives.

[Stephen]

1 minute ago, Smonroe said:

 

I keep going back to - No one saying Baker is a better QB than Ryan.  They just say that he'd be cheap and he's young.

 

Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady wouldn't agree that those are necessarily positives.

I was referring to the statement that Ryan is a statue. Ryan was doing so many roll outs and plays on the run that there is no way you could say he has zero mobility. He even ran for first downs.

[BlackTiger]

Looked up some more stats

 

Matt Ryan out produces Baker every single year by miles.  not even close and he has a worse cast around him 

[Scott Pennock]

Cons 

1. We have to use draft capital for both

2. Matt Ryan would strictly be a rental based off of age and diminishing ability

3. Baker Mayfield is accused of not being a good leader - same thing said of Wentz

4. We would win enough with both that we would STILL be drafting in the tail end of the first round, thus maintaining our current state of QB purgatory

 

Pros

1. Matt Ryan would know his role is to "Win Now" while also mentoring a future draft pick to take over

2. Baker Mayfield has proven (in spurts) that he can lead a team to victory both with his skill and his swag - I mean we are talking about the Browns here which is where QB's go to die traditionally. Any bluster we hear out of Cleveland right now is their 'justification' to trade for Watson (though he is the superior talent). The fans don't believe any of the nonsense and no players have echoed the FO's comments.

3. Baker Mayfield is young enough, has the pedigree and the skills (arm talent, escapability and the ability to sell the RPO's) to be our long term answer at QB - probably more so than any of Ryan, Mariota and Jimmy G

4. The price of acquisition will likely be less for Baker Mayfield.

5. Baker Mayfield's swag may just be what the doctor ordered when it comes to leadership - kind of like a fire and ice mix with Frank Reich. Baker probably reminds Irsay of his younger years and would love him like a son. LOL

 

I'm sure there is more I can think......but this is all I have for now

 

[Smonroe]

1 hour ago, Scott Pennock said:

Cons 

1. We have to use draft capital for both

2. Matt Ryan would strictly be a rental based off of age and diminishing ability

3. Baker Mayfield is accused of not being a good leader - same thing said of Wentz

4. We would win enough with both that we would STILL be drafting in the tail end of the first round, thus maintaining our current state of QB purgatory

 

Pros

1. Matt Ryan would know his role is to "Win Now" while also mentoring a future draft pick to take over

2. Baker Mayfield has proven (in spurts) that he can lead a team to victory both with his skill and his swag - I mean we are talking about the Browns here which is where QB's go to die traditionally. Any bluster we hear out of Cleveland right now is their 'justification' to trade for Watson (though he is the superior talent). The fans don't believe any of the nonsense and no players have echoed the FO's comments.

3. Baker Mayfield is young enough, has the pedigree and the skills (arm talent, escapability and the ability to sell the RPO's) to be our long term answer at QB - probably more so than any of Ryan, Mariota and Jimmy G

4. The price of acquisition will likely be less for Baker Mayfield.

5. Baker Mayfield's swag may just be what the doctor ordered when it comes to leadership - kind of like a fire and ice mix with Frank Reich. Baker probably reminds Irsay of his younger years and would love him like a son. LOL

 

I'm sure there is more I can think......but this is all I have for now

 

 

I'd add Baker's size and durability to the cons.  Mobile QBs his size don't seem to last too long in the NFL.  I'll give him credit, he played through injury last season - not very well, but he did play.

[BeanDiasucci]

1 hour ago, BlackTiger said:

Looked up some more stats

 

Matt Ryan out produces Baker every single year by miles.  not even close and he has a worse cast around him 

Don't think this is quite accurate. In 2020, Baker's last healthy season, their stats were pretty close. Baker was off to a good start in the first two games of 2021 until he got injured. 

2020

Matt Ryan        Age 35, 65.0 Comp %, 7.3 yards/attempt, TDs 26, interceptions 11, QB rating 93.3

Baker Mayfield Age 25, 62.8 Comp %, 7.3 yards/attempt, TDs 26, interceptions  8, QB rating 95.9

[BlackTiger]

12 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Don't think this is quite accurate. In 2020, Baker's last healthy season, their stats were pretty close. Baker was off to a good start in the first two games of 2021 until he got injured. 

2020

Matt Ryan        Age 35, 65.0 Comp %, 7.3 yards/attempt, TDs 26, interceptions 11, QB rating 93.3

Baker Mayfield Age 25, 62.8 Comp %, 7.3 yards/attempt, TDs 26, interceptions  8, QB rating 95.9

Matt had a lot more yards, 4k is almost a given with him.  

[BeanDiasucci]

2 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

Matt had a lot more yards, 4k is almost a given with him

Ryan has more yards because threw the ball more often than any quarterback in the league that year. I don't know how you can say their stats are "not even close" when they have the same yards per attempt, same number of touchdown passes, fewer interceptions by Mayfield and a higher quarterback rating for Mayfield. 

[BlackTiger]

4 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Ryan has more yard because threw the ball more often than any quarterback in the league that year. I don't know how you can say their stats are "not even close" when they have the same yards per attempt, same number of touchdown passes, fewer interceptions by Mayfield and a higher quarterback rating for Mayfield. 

 

 

Matt out throws baker by about a 1000 yards most of the time and thats not an exaggeration. 

 

We dont know if baker is even capable of putting up 4500+ yards, he has never done so with a better cast of receivers.  who cares about ypa if he can only do it in a small volume?  pff and qb rankings all have matt ryan better too

 

give me the guy that produces every year, not the guy who gets like 3500 on a good year to him 

[Scott Pennock]

36 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I'd add Baker's size and durability to the cons.  Mobile QBs his size don't seem to last too long in the NFL.  I'll give him credit, he played through injury last season - not very well, but he did play.

He would have to be reminded to slide 99% of the time, yes. He should study film on Drew Brees and Russell Wilson to help him create lanes to throw thru and how to NOT take the big hit. But yes...... definitely a con that I forgot to mention! Thank you!

[BeanDiasucci]

13 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

 

 

Matt out throws baker by about a 1000 yards most of the time and thats not an exaggeration. 

 

We dont know if baker is even capable of putting up 4500+ yards, he has never done so with a better cast of receivers.  who cares about ypa if he can only do it in a small volume?  pff and qb rankings all have matt ryan better too

 

give me the guy that produces every year, not the guy who gets like 3500 on a good year to him 

The PFF Focus rankings that you reference showed Ryan at #9 after the 2020 season and Baker at #10. Again, it's not accurate to  say they're not even close. I'm not trying to argue for Baker over Ryan, but I disagree that it's an obvious decision based on stats. 

[Indeee]

2 hours ago, Stephen said:

This statement is false Ryan still has plenty of mobility. Most of his throws in 2021 were on the run because his online was bad.

If you believe Ryan is mobile, you my friend need to upgrade those glasses of yours....  He is a statue