Indianapolis Colts Are Huge Winners From Carson Wentz Trade

[BlackTiger]

17 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I want more too but we need to calm down after 1 loss.

Carson has lost me with his missing open receivers and year long low %

 

yes the forums are melting down badly, i lost faith in him going forward myself 

[ColtV]

1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I won't say the colts can't get to a super bowl with Wentz but there are a Slew of young hot shot QB's that will stand in the way in the playoffs that are better passers. I don't think there's one potential playoff opponent that you can say they have the inferior QB to Wentz... in fact the truth it's the opposite if we face KC, Buffalo,. Chargers, Bengals, Jackson etc...

Of course the team without the superior QB can win big games and WE CAN TOO  but it's a bit more difficult if your QB has the potential to be a liability rather than a big asset.

There is a literal "arms race" in the AFC right now. There are a lot of good young qb's that the Colts are going to have to deal with for a long time in the conference. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, stitches said:

Jacoby had about the same stats as Wentz when we were 5-2 and people were defending him the same way. I think Wentz is better than Brissett for the record. But people are using the same arguments to justify Wentz' poor play - TEAM win record, TD/INT ratio, etc. 

I defended JB as well (I knew you were going there) but by the eye test he is much better than JB. It not just the TD's/INT ratio, Wentz threw for over 400 yards at Baltimore when they were healthy. Last week at Cards, that pass he made for the TD was clutch and sealed the game. 

 

Yes, he misses throws and in no way do I think he is better than Luck but he is our best option and is good IMO.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, BlackTiger said:

Carson has lost me with his missing open receivers and year long low %

 

yes the forums are melting down badly, i lost faith in him going forward myself 

When we make the AFC Title Game call me 

[BlackTiger]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When we make the AFC Title Game call me 

I wont be mad if im wrong about that lol

 

you will owe a lot of us and i told you so and no one will be mad

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Barring a huge game from either Zach Pascal (377 receiving yards) or Jonathan Taylor (342 yards) in the final, Colts will not have two pass-catchers break the 500-yard mark in 2021. 

The last time that happened, I believe, was 1988.

[2006Coltsbestever]

If I had my own talk show I would love fans that are negative, my ratings would beat Howard Stern's 

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yes, he misses throws and in no way do I think he is better than Luck but he is our best option and is good IMO.

This is the main point. We didn't have many options this past off season. We weren't in any shape or form able to be close enough in the draft to pick up a rookie QB, Matt Stafford commanded way too much money and the other QBs on the market had even more question marks than Carson. 

 

The current rookie QB class has not looked good as a whole. At least one of them will probably have success, but it's not guaranteed. As for Fields? I have a lot of family up North who are "meh" about him. He doesn't seem to be living up to their expectations yet.

[BlackTiger]

1 minute ago, Wentzszn said:

Barring a huge game from either Zach Pascal (377 receiving yards) or Jonathan Taylor (342 yards) in the final, Colts will not have two pass-catchers break the 500-yard mark in 2021. 

The last time that happened, I believe, was 1988.

Taylor should be that guy.  hes been open and missed or not targeted 

[stitches]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I defended JB as well (I knew you were going there) but by the eye test he is much better than JB. It not just the TD's/INT ratio, Wentz threw for over 400 yards at Baltimore when they were healthy. Last week at Cards, that pass he made for the TD was clutch and sealed the game. 

 

Yes, he misses throws and in no way do I think he is better than Luck but he is our best option and is good IMO.

I wasn't sure initially, but I think I remember now - at the time you thought Brissett was an average QB in the league, if I'm not mistaken. I think Wentz is what you thought Brissett was... but still kind of ... not even average. But closer to average than Brissett for sure. 

 

I agree he's our best option. And very likely will be our best option for next year too... and might be our best option for the following two years too... if we never take a chance on a QB, we will never have a better option than Wentz, for as long as he's here. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Like  Stephen Holder said on his podcast the one area he disagrees with Ballard on is that they can get by with mediocre WR. He says you can’t do that in the league today and that has to change. Your doing a diservice to your QB and putting way to pressure on the coach to scheme players open.  Then Zak follows up the team is to JT focused.

[BlackTiger]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

I wasn't sure initially, but I think I remember now - at the time you thought Brissett is an average QB in the league, if I'm not mistaken. I think Wentz is what you thought Brissett was... but still kind of ... not even average. But closer to average than Brissett for sure. 

 

I agree he's our best option. And very likely will be our best option for next year too... and might be our best option for the following two years too... if we never take a chance on a QB, we will never have a better option than Wentz, until he's here. 

I wanted a QB in the draft too, jones or fields could have been good options for us

 

They have not set the league on fire but rookies need time right?

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, stitches said:

I wasn't sure initially, but I think I remember now - at the time you thought Brissett was an average QB in the league, if I'm not mistaken. I think Wentz is what you thought Brissett was... but still kind of ... not even average. But closer to average than Brissett for sure. 

 

I agree he's our best option. And very likely will be our best option for next year too... and might be our best option for the following two years too... if we never take a chance on a QB, we will never have a better option than Wentz, for as long as he's here. 

Through 7 games I did think JB was average. We were 5-2 and his stats were decent. Wentz is much better though and it is proving me right again. 

 

At the end of the 2019 season I admitted that JB was below average but he wasn't trash either like a Painter, Pagel, or Art, etc..

[stitches]

17 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I wanted a QB in the draft too, jones or fields could have been good options for us

 

They have not set the league on fire but rookies need time right?

I personally am not looking for a rookie to be amazing right away. Especially when you are spending huge resources (draft picks-wise) IMO the long-term success if much more important than the immediate performance in their rookie year. 

[NewColtsFan]

On 1/1/2022 at 12:19 PM, Lurker said:

Didn't see this posted so sorry if it was Mods please either combine or delete.  

 

Enjoy the read.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/evansidery/2021/12/31/indianapolis-colts-are-huge-winners-from-carson-wentz-trade/?sh=5496a695662e

 

On Saturday, the Colts were the big winners of their trade to get Wentz.    24 hours later,  this didn’t age very well.   It got left out and turned moldy over night!   
 

Not a knock on the OP.   Just an observation on the fickle nature of fandom.   

[Myles]

33 minutes ago, stitches said:

Jacoby had about the same stats as Wentz when we were 5-2 and people were defending him the same way. I think Wentz is better than Brissett for the record. But people are using the same arguments to justify Wentz' poor play - TEAM win record, TD/INT ratio, etc. 

Jacoby was worse in almost every stat.  60.9 (62.6) completion, only 18 TD's (26), YPC 10.8 (11.1),  Sacks 27 (26),  TD % 4.0 (5.3), rating 88.0 (95.8).   

 

Wentz has not been great, but he has been much better than Brissett.    

[stitches]

14 minutes ago, Myles said:

Jacoby was worse in almost every stat.  60.9 (62.6) completion, only 18 TD's (26), YPC 10.8 (11.1),  Sacks 27 (26),  TD % 4.0 (5.3), rating 88.0 (95.8).   

 

Wentz has not been great, but he has been much better than Brissett.    

At 5-2 Jacoby was something like 13TD-1INT and 65% completion. He fell off by the end of the year. People were defending him when we were winning and turned on him when we started losing, but in reality he didn't play significantly worse at the end of the year than in the beginning. The only major difference was we started losing and the unsustainable things in his stats started regressing towards the mean. 

 

I agree Wentz is better. 

[Lancer1]

I noticed yesterday that LV was using Mariota in a similar fashion to how we used Brissett last year, bringing him in for spot plays (mostly running) although he did throw at least once.

[Myles]

20 minutes ago, stitches said:

At 5-2 Jacoby was something like 13TD-1INT and 65% completion. He fell off by the end of the year. People were defending him when we were winning and turned on him when we started losing, but in reality he didn't play significantly worse at the end of the year than in the beginning. The only major difference was we started losing and the unsustainable things in his stats started regressing towards the mean. 

 

I agree Wentz is better. 

I wasn't one of them.   I was against Brissett being a starter from the start.   He is what he is.   A .500 QB.    He no longer had potential to be great.   

I think with another offseason (pretty much the first offseason) with the coaching staff and Reich, I think he may improve next year.     

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

well not really. They didn't know they could have Fields for that price... they didn't know they could have him at all. They knew they could have Wentz and he was quite possibly the best option that was readily available. I understand that choice and it was my 2nd favorite option too at the time. 

 

I just don't think drafting a QB was ever the route they really wanted to take. And once Reich got word in Dec. about Wentz wanting out...that became the priority.

 

And if you weren't going to try to draft one last year, you probably aren't going to be all in on that a lesser draft class. So it's Wentz for at least one more year.

 

But I am interested to see where some of these QB prospects go in the draft. I know I am in the minority, but I would have no problem with gambling a 2nd rounder on the right QB prospect to bolster the position and give them a future dart throw as well. But I don't think it would ever happen with no 1st round picks (and especially after what transpired in PHI).

[Btown_Colt]

4 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Like  Stephen Holder said on his podcast the one area he disagrees with Ballard on is that they can get by with mediocre WR. He says you can’t do that in the league today and that has to change. Your doing a diservice to your QB and putting way to pressure on the coach to scheme players open.  Then Zak follows up the team is to JT focused.

So Holder knows more than Ballard on building a roster? And of course they are JT focused, he is really good and the best player the Colts have.

 

That was some seriously good insight though.

[Smoke317]

If you give Fields or Jones a dynamic back like JT, their numbers would improve across the board.  Fields works best from under center off of playaction and is already one of the better deep ball throwers in the league.  Factor in his running combined with JT in the read option & look out... I think we could very easily be 9-7 with him at QB.  We’d just look differently than how we do with Wentz at QB.  
 

We all say Frank is supposed to be a QB whisperer, so why couldn’t he get Fields or Jones to be effective with the best running back and one of the top O Lines in the league?  Sirianni is doing it with Hurts.  Why couldn’t Frank do the same with Fields or Jones?

[2006Coltsbestever]

21 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

If you give Fields or Jones a dynamic back like JT, their numbers would improve across the board.  Fields works best from under center off of playaction and is already one of the better deep ball throwers in the league.  Factor in his running combined with JT in the read option & look out... I think we could very easily be 9-7 with him at QB.  We’d just look differently than how we do with Wentz at QB.  
 

We all say Frank is supposed to be a QB whisperer, so why couldn’t he get Fields or Jones to be effective with the best running back and one of the top O Lines in the league?  Sirianni is doing it with Hurts.  Why couldn’t Frank do the same with Fields or Jones?

Not to start a debate but I am not a Fields fan at all, I think he can be good but to say he is better than having Wentz is mindblowing IMO. Jones is good because he has BB, put him on the Jags and he would be someone never talked about. I would take Lawrence over either but because he is on Jacks he had a bad season. Burrow is like Luck, dude has the 'it' factor.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 hours ago, Btown_Colt said:

So Holder knows more than Ballard on building a roster? And of course they are JT focused, he is really good and the best player the Colts have.

 

That was some seriously good insight though.

Holder is right. Our WR has been bad since Ballard has been here.I will give him a little mulligan because Pittman has worked and he couldn’t predict the Campbell injury. But no one can say it with a straight face they are good. One is good the rest are Jags.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

16 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

If you give Fields or Jones a dynamic back like JT, their numbers would improve across the board.  Fields works best from under center off of playaction and is already one of the better deep ball throwers in the league.  Factor in his running combined with JT in the read option & look out... I think we could very easily be 9-7 with him at QB.  We’d just look differently than how we do with Wentz at QB.  
 

We all say Frank is supposed to be a QB whisperer, so why couldn’t he get Fields or Jones to be effective with the best running back and one of the top O Lines in the league?  Sirianni is doing it with Hurts.  Why couldn’t Frank do the same with Fields or Jones?

I will give you Jones because I think Reich could have a similiar game plan as Rivers. But I don’t think our defense is as good as NE.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Holder is right. Our WR has been bad since Ballard has been here.I will give him a little mulligan because Pittman has worked and he couldn’t predict the Campbell injury. But no one can say it with a straight face they are good. One is good the rest are Jags.

Draft wise we should take a WR in the 2nd round. @stitchesor @NewColtsFancould tell you who the best 4 or 5 coming out is but I know we need one.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

I will give you Jones because I think Reich could have a similiar game plan as Rivers. But I don’t think our defense is as good as NE.

The Pats have a better D than we do, if Jones was here we would something like 7-9. With Fields same thing IMO.

[IinD]

It's like the yearly our QB is trash so let's get another because it's so easy.

 

He hasn't been great but he was the best option. He's at least an NFL caliber QB who can win games.

 

I can't even imagine our fanbases patience if we actually had to draft a rookie and face a few 4-13 seasons.

 

Some are melting down in a winning season... Lol

 

Let's see how this season turns out first.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, IinD said:

It's like the yearly our QB is trash so let's get another because it's so easy.

 

He hasn't been great but he was the best option. He's at least an NFL caliber QB who can win games.

 

I can't even imagine our fanbases patience if we actually had to draft a rookie and face a few 4-13 seasons.

 

Some are melting down in a winning season... Lol

 

Let's see how this season turns out first.

There were many in here that said Rivers was trash and a weeny arm,  . We went 11-5 and his stats were good. People love to complain over non-sense.

[2006Coltsbestever]

As long as we are good every year I am happy (I love the journey and knowing we have a good product to watch) and if we win the SB I will celebrate. Only 1 team can win it all so anyone that expects that will be disappointed 9 times out of 10. There were people in here that wanted freakin Jordan Love for pete sake and the dude stinks. We would probably be 6-10 with him  . I would take JB over Love 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Wentzszn said:

Holder is right. Our WR has been bad since Ballard has been here.I will give him a little mulligan because Pittman has worked and he couldn’t predict the Campbell injury. But no one can say it with a straight face they are good. One is good the rest are Jags.

To me, I think it’s obvious that as he’s been building the Colts, that WR is the last piece of the puzzle for Ballard.   He’s prioritized other positions ahead of WR and TE.   And I’m fine with that. 
 

But this off-season it’s time to get younger, faster, more skilled, more athletic at the perimeter on both sides of the ball.   WR and TE on offense; CB and DB on defense.   We need weapons that command attention and respect from the other team. 
 

So for me, it’s… 

 

R2:   CB

R3:    WR

R4:    TE

R5:    DB

 

Those are my priorities,  and fortunately I believe they are strong positions in the draft as well.    

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

To me, I think it’s obvious that as he’s been building the Colts, that WR is the last piece of the puzzle for Ballard.   He’s prioritized other positions ahead of WR and TE.   And I’m fine with that. 
 

But this off-season it’s time to get younger, faster, more skilled, more athletic at the perimeter on both sides of the ball.   WR and TE on offense; CB and DB on defense.   We need weapons that command attention and respect from the other team. 
 

So for me, it’s… 

 

R2:   CB

R3:    WR

R4:    TE

R5:    DB

 

Those are my priorities,  and fortunately I believe they are strong positions in the draft as well.    

I agree. It seems like he hasn’t really prioritized it. But with TY retiring and pascal maybe being gone seems like we might see a couple new ones. TE needs to be a priority too. It’s not fair to the QB to not give him adequate weapons.

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, Wentzszn said:

I agree. It seems like he hasn’t really prioritized it. But with TY retiring and pascal maybe being gone seems like we might see a couple new ones. TE needs to be a priority too. It’s not fair to the QB to not give him adequate weapons.

Yup.  100 percent.   It’s time.  Now is the time.

 

I think it makes this off-season one to watch. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

Yup.  100 percent.   It’s time.  Now is the time.

 

I think it makes this off-season one to watch. 

If Ballard doesn’t fix this I will never truly blame Wentz. We should get one in the draft. 2nd or 3rd round pick. Plus we need to get one in FA. WR have started not demanding as much in FA  because the draft has produced a lot of talent that can come in right away and play. So why pay big bucks. College offenses are really producing nfl ready WR.

[chad72]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

As long as we are good every year I am happy (I love the journey and knowing we have a good product to watch) and if we win the SB I will celebrate. Only 1 team can win it all so anyone that expects that will be disappointed 9 times out of 10. There were people in here that wanted freakin Jordan Love for pete sake and the dude stinks. We would probably be 6-10 with him  . I would take JB over Love 

 

You don't even know how well he would responded to Frank Reich coaching him and him getting all the reps as a full time starter. Come on man, JB over Love??? I would pass on paying JB $10 mil. as a backup and invest it in Jordan Love and develop him.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The biggest question I have with the passing offense is why don’t we see more crossers and slants. Those were a staple with rivers. Are we not calling them like last season or is Wentz not hitting them? I really don’t pay close enough attention to much to those small details. They almost always get big gains. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

You don't even know how well he would responded to Frank Reich coaching him and him getting all the reps as a full time starter. Come on man, JB over Love??? I would pass on paying JB $10 mil. as a backup and invest it in Jordan Love and develop him.

 

Huh?

 

Frank is 4 for 4 with his four quarterbacks.  Luck, JB, Phillip and now Wentz.   And you say no one knows how Love would respond to Reich?!?   I’d take my chances with Love responding just fine. 

[Nesjan3]

I think time will tell. Cant really be gauged right now, but to say were "huge" winners at this point is making premature assumptions. He will play the rest of this season, next year and possibly more.

 

Thus far he has had some good moments and some equally as bad. He has been inconsistent for sure. I think anyone who has doubts about Wentz including myself wonder if he can win a game for us if JT and the defense don't show up. Which is what franchise QB's do, and more than likely will need to be done in order to go deep in the playoffs.

 

I personally am not by any means sold, this last game he looked like Eagles Wentz of last year, not good. Its going to unfold in the next few years though.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

I think time will tell. Cant really be gauged right now, but to say were "huge" winners at this point is making premature assumptions. He will play the rest of this season, next year and possibly more.

 

Thus far he has had some good moments and some equally as bad. He has been inconsistent for sure. I think anyone who has doubts about Wentz including myself wonder if he can win a game for us if JT and the defense don't show up. Which is what franchise QB's do, and more than likely will need to be done in order to go deep in the playoffs.

 

I personally am not by any means sold, this last game he looked like Eagles Wentz of last year, not good. Its going to unfold in the next few years though.

The answer right now is no but  it’s not all because of Wentz. It’s because of our pass catchers too.  Campbell  should help some. But he hasn’t played in months. Most of this can’t be fixed until the off season.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I mean look at this.