Safety

[dw49]

I'm trying to figure out what was most responsible for the safety. Could someone help me out ?

 

1) N. Hines FC at the 3 yard line. He's done this at least a couple times now , so you would think he would have been schooled ?

2) Rivers not taking an extra second and throwing the ball at the RB's feet. Yeah , the pressure was on but he's a vet and should have been able to pull off a legal throw away.

3) Reich play call. We were running the ball well , get it off your gol line.

 

i trend to lean toward Hines' FC at the 3. That is just such a bad football decision.

 

[Sumo63]

3 minutes ago, dw49 said:

I'm trying to figure out what was most responsible for the safety. Could someone help me out ?

 

1) N. Hines FC at the 3 yard line. He's done this at least a couple times now , so you would think he would have been schooled ?

2) Rivers not taking an extra second and throwing the ball at the RB's feet. Yeah , the pressure was on but he's a vet and should have been able to pull off a legal throw away.

3) Reich play call. We were running the ball well , get it off your gol line.

 

i trend to lean toward Hines' FC at the 3. That is just such a bad football decision.

 

It's on Rivers, hes a vet, made a poor decision in the heat of the moment.  NBD it happens.  The 9 points ke gifted the browns were the difference today.  Generally he plays well but his mistakes are so costly......dont know how a team overcomes that on a weekly basis.

[KB]

So... outside of Lawrence, what qb can we obtain next year that will put us over the top thats better than Eason?

[danlhart87]

Just now, KB said:

So... outside of Lawrence, what qb can we obtain next year that will put us over the top thats better than Eason?

I would draft Tackle before QB

[GoColts8818]

11 minutes ago, dw49 said:

I'm trying to figure out what was most responsible for the safety. Could someone help me out ?

 

1) N. Hines FC at the 3 yard line. He's done this at least a couple times now , so you would think he would have been schooled ?

2) Rivers not taking an extra second and throwing the ball at the RB's feet. Yeah , the pressure was on but he's a vet and should have been able to pull off a legal throw away.

3) Reich play call. We were running the ball well , get it off your gol line.

 

i trend to lean toward Hines' FC at the 3. That is just such a bad football decision.

 

Yes.  
 

Not all plays can solely be blamed on one person.  It normally multiple failures to cause major failure like this one this one is no exception.

[KB]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

I would draft Tackle before QB

I agree. Let Eason show he isnt worth it.

[Lancer1]

8 minutes ago, dw49 said:

I'm trying to figure out what was most responsible for the safety. Could someone help me out ?

 

1) N. Hines FC at the 3 yard line. He's done this at least a couple times now , so you would think he would have been schooled ?

2) Rivers not taking an extra second and throwing the ball at the RB's feet. Yeah , the pressure was on but he's a vet and should have been able to pull off a legal throw away.

3) Reich play call. We were running the ball well , get it off your gol line.

 

i trend to lean toward Hines' FC at the 3. That is just such a bad football decision.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Sumo63 said:

It's on Rivers, hes a vet, made a poor decision in the heat of the moment.  NBD it happens.  The 9 points ke gifted the browns were the difference today.  Generally he plays well but his mistakes are so costly......dont know how a team overcomes that on a weekly basis.

I think it's a combination of the fair catch inside the 5, and a bad penalty from inside the end zone.  It's obvious that whomever Rivers was throwing to was not where he expected them to be, he knew he was in the end zone and I don't think he intentionally threw the ball away, knowing that it would result in a safety if he did.

[GoColts8818]

The key on the draft is not to force a position because of need.  So say the Colts have the 15th pick and the best tackle is the 29th player in the draft and the best QB is the 38th player on your board but there is corner there who is the 12th best player on the board you go corner or trade back. 

[Sumo63]

25 minutes ago, Lancer1 said:

 

I think it's a combination of the fair catch inside the 5, and a bad penalty from inside the end zone.  It's obvious that whomever Rivers was throwing to was not where he expected them to be, he knew he was in the end zone and I don't think he intentionally threw the ball away, knowing that it would result in a safety if he did.

He said in his presser he should have held onto it longer bc jack was going to "be the area" he threw it to.

 

It's on him. The other stuff you mention were contributing factors but hes a 17 year vet, too slow to get outside the tackles and he took a safety.

 

Theres no apologist rationalization that makes that untrue.  The man himself admits it.  I'll take him at his word.

[Lancer1]

3 minutes ago, Sumo63 said:

He said in his presser he should have held onto it longer bc jack was going to "be the area" he threw it to.

 

It's on him. The other stuff you mention were contributing factors but hes a 17 year vet, too slow to get outside the tackles and he took a safety.

 

Theres no apologist rationalization that makes that untrue.  The man himself admits it.  I'll take him at his word.

With the pressure the Browns were getting, he couldn't have held on to the ball much longer without being sacked, or a potential holding penalty in the end zone resulting in said safety.

[Sumo63]

8 minutes ago, Lancer1 said:

With the pressure the Browns were getting, he couldn't have held on to the ball much longer without being sacked, or a potential holding penalty in the end zone resulting in said safety.

So he took a safety to avoid a safety.  Fair enough.

[shasta519]

49 minutes ago, KB said:

So... outside of Lawrence, what qb can we obtain next year that will put us over the top thats better than Eason?

Darnold, Sam. Ballard cashes in that favor with Hogan.

[Lancer1]

1 minute ago, Sumo63 said:

So he took a safety to avoid a safety.  Fair enough.

I don't think he intentionally took a safety, he threw to where he thought Doyle was going to be and since he wasn't nor was any other Colts receiver, the result was the safety. I maintain that if he had held the ball for another 2 or 3 seconds, he's probably sacked.

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, Lancer1 said:

I don't think he intentionally took a safety, he threw to where he thought Doyle was going to be and since he wasn't nor was any other Colts receiver, the result was the safety. I maintain that if he had held the ball for another 2 or 3 seconds, he's probably sacked.

Or he just threw it and hoped he’d get away with it rather than taking the sure safety.  Like archaletta said on the broadcast (it’s killing me how much I am agreeing with him tonight) sometimes vet QBs are smart enough to argue a receiver ran the wrong route.    If it hadn’t been so obvious he was throwing it away he might have had a case.

[Sumo63]

Just now, Lancer1 said:

I don't think he intentionally took a safety, he threw to where he thought Doyle was going to be and since he wasn't nor was any other Colts receiver, the result was the safety. I maintain that if he had held the ball for another 2 or 3 seconds, he's probably sacked.

Pointless argument bro (or sis).  Your argument is there was no other outcome than a safety.  I disagree. 

 

I'm not saying rivers is trash.  He generally plays well. His mistakes, although infrequent, are too much to overcome against good teams.  If he can avoid those great, today he gave up 9 points.  We lost by 9.  It doesnt bear overthinking.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

1) N. Hines FC at the 3 yard line. He's done this at least a couple times now , so you would think he would have been schooled ?

 

It was a terrible decision, bottom line. This is why you don't fair catch a punt inside the ten, much less the five. The basic rule for a punt returner is to stand on the 10, and if the ball goes over your head, oh well, the pressure is on the kicking team to field it and pin you up against the goal line. There's zero reason to fair catch a punt inside the five, as a matter of fact it's a dumb thing to do.

 

Then you call a Coryell pass play from inside your own end zone. What about a screen? (Precious few of those since the opener, by the way.)

 

I don't blame Rivers for the safety. He was under pressure, he had little to no option in that situation. I blame Hines, then Reich.

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It was a terrible decision, bottom line. This is why you don't fair catch a punt inside the ten, much less the five. The basic rule for a punt returner is to stand on the 10, and if the ball goes over your head, oh well, the pressure is on the kicking team to field it and pin you up against the goal line. There's zero reason to fair catch a punt inside the five, as a matter of fact it's a dumb thing to do.

 

Then you call a Coryell pass play from inside your own end zone. What about a screen? (Precious few of those since the opener, by the way.)

 

I don't blame Rivers for the safety. He was under pressure, he had little to no option in that situation. I blame Hines, then Reich.

I was going to say I blame Reich, then Hines lol.

But both are about equal.

Both broke pretty obvious rules of the game, or common sense. 

 

[Lancer1]

2 minutes ago, Sumo63 said:

Pointless argument bro (or sis).  Your argument is there was no other outcome than a safety.  I disagree. 

 

I'm not saying rivers is trash.  He generally plays well. His mistakes, although infrequent, are too much to overcome against good teams.  If he can avoid those great, today he gave up 9 points.  We lost by 9.  It doesnt bear overthinking.

It's bro, and I don't argue that there was no other outcome than a safety, but when you down it inside the 5 then call a downfield passing play from the end zone, it's more likely than not that a safety will be the result.  

 

And to be technical, Philip "contributed" 8 points to the Browns, not 9 - after all, they could've missed the extra point following the pick-six!

[GoColts8818]

31 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It was a terrible decision, bottom line. This is why you don't fair catch a punt inside the ten, much less the five. The basic rule for a punt returner is to stand on the 10, and if the ball goes over your head, oh well, the pressure is on the kicking team to field it and pin you up against the goal line. There's zero reason to fair catch a punt inside the five, as a matter of fact it's a dumb thing to do.

 

Then you call a Coryell pass play from inside your own end zone. What about a screen? (Precious few of those since the opener, by the way.)

 

I don't blame Rivers for the safety. He was under pressure, he had little to no option in that situation. I blame Hines, then Reich.

All for the Colts taking more deep shots but that was not the time or place to do it.

[Thunderbolt]

What's wrong with running the ball and get a little breathing room, then you can decide to pass if need be from inside the 5 yd line.  And what's wrong with our touted O-line, they can't even protect Rivers he was getting a lot of heat all afternoon.  It's the QB and Coaches who should shoulder the blame.  Bad play calling, bad decisions...

[GoColts8818]

49 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

What's wrong with running the ball and get a little breathing room, then you can decide to pass if need be from inside the 5 yd line.  And what's wrong with our touted O-line, they can't even protect Rivers he was getting a lot of heat all afternoon.  It's the QB and Coaches who should shoulder the blame.  Bad play calling, bad decisions...

Frank admitted that in the post game that he made a poor play call there.

 

As for the Browns pass rush they are good, like Freeney and Mathis good.  The Colts were also without their stud left tackle.  I think those two things explain the Colts struggles with the Browns pass rush.

[dw49]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

It was a terrible decision, bottom line. This is why you don't fair catch a punt inside the ten, much less the five. The basic rule for a punt returner is to stand on the 10, and if the ball goes over your head, oh well, the pressure is on the kicking team to field it and pin you up against the goal line. There's zero reason to fair catch a punt inside the five, as a matter of fact it's a dumb thing to do.

 

Then you call a Coryell pass play from inside your own end zone. What about a screen? (Precious few of those since the opener, by the way.)

 

I don't blame Rivers for the safety. He was under pressure, he had little to no option in that situation. I blame Hines, then Reich.

 

 

Yes , the 10 was always the "standard." But seems like maybe they have revisited that one as you see FC's at the 8,9 or 10 very frequently in today's game. I think it's due to the way punters drop the ball differently when trying to kill it inside the 10. The ball often doesn't roll forward. So I can understand the change. But anything inside around the 7 is just plain bad % football. At the 3 is just *ic. 

 

 

I agree the play call was worse than the execution by Rivers.

 

[GoColts8818]

8 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

Yes , the 10 was always the "standard." But seems like maybe they have revisited that one as you see FC's at the 8,9 or 10 very frequently in today's game. I think it's due to the way punters drop the ball differently when trying to kill it inside the 10. The ball often doesn't roll forward. So I can understand the change. But anything inside around the 7 is just plain bad % football. At the 3 is just *ic. 

 

 

I agree the play call was worse than the execution by Rivers.

 

I saw one of the Colts reporters on Twitter say as soon as Hines caught that punt he didn’t like that players are coached to do that now a days.  I think you are right on why they do it but I would say at least the five should be the new 10.  If it’s inside the five let it go and take your chances.  What’s the worst that can happen they down it at the one and put you in position to get a safety...

[Stoney]

2 hours ago, KB said:

So... outside of Lawrence, what qb can we obtain next year that will put us over the top thats better than Eason?

Trey Lance. He might even be better than Lawrence if I'm being honest.

[Superman]

26 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

Yes , the 10 was always the "standard." But seems like maybe they have revisited that one as you see FC's at the 8,9 or 10 very frequently in today's game. I think it's due to the way punters drop the ball differently when trying to kill it inside the 10. The ball often doesn't roll forward. So I can understand the change. But anything inside around the 7 is just plain bad % football. At the 3 is just *ic. 

 

 

I agree the play call was worse than the execution by Rivers.

 

Punters are better now than they used to be, so are coverage teams. But still, don't take the pressure off of the kicking team by doing their job for them.

[VaAllDay757]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It was a terrible decision, bottom line. This is why you don't fair catch a punt inside the ten, much less the five. The basic rule for a punt returner is to stand on the 10, and if the ball goes over your head, oh well, the pressure is on the kicking team to field it and pin you up against the goal line. There's zero reason to fair catch a punt inside the five, as a matter of fact it's a dumb thing to do.

 

Then you call a Coryell pass play from inside your own end zone. What about a screen? (Precious few of those since the opener, by the way.)

 

I don't blame Rivers for the safety. He was under pressure, he had little to no option in that situation. I blame Hines, then Reich.

Exactly....hines basically caused it with the fair catch then reich wants to call a play action play in that situation????? Sometimes I wonder what do these coaches be thinking about smh

[danlhart87]

27 minutes ago, Stoney said:

Trey Lance. He might even be better than Lawrence if I'm being honest.

Both are going top 10 so moot point 

[csmopar]

8 hours ago, shasta519 said:

Darnold, Sam. Ballard cashes in that favor with Hogan.

Eh I’ve not seen anything in Sam Darnold that proved he’s worth a trade.

[GoColts8818]

23 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Exactly....hines basically caused it with the fair catch then reich wants to call a play action play in that situation????? Sometimes I wonder what do these coaches be thinking about smh

I think Frank’s biggest flaw is that he out thinks himself.  I think he was thinking a run was too obvious so let’s do the opposite.  Like I said before I am all for the Colts being more aggressive and running some more play action but that was not the time or place.  Sometimes doing the obvious isn’t bad.  You just have to trust your guys to out execute the other team but too many times I’ve seen frank get too cute trying to avoid doing the obvious and it almost always ends badly.

[DougDew]

Rivers was probably the least responsible of the three, at least the person who made the least irresponsible decision.  The DE was on top of him when trying to throw long-ish.  A safety there is better than a sack/fumble.

 

Reich put him in a bad place with the play call.  Still, what Reich did had some merit.  If the team executes...Clark does better....that play could gain yards.

 

There is nothing positive at all about Hines FC the punt at the 3.5.  100% bone head play.  If Hines can't return punts, not sure why having him on the roster would be would be better option than many other ex-NFL or even ex-college RBs on the street.

[NorthernColt]

Everyone seems to like to be able to point the finger at one person, and one person only. When in reality, it was 3 consecutive mistakes, by 3 seperate people.

 

1. Hines should know well enough to not fair catch at the 5.

 

2. Passing in that situation is risky enough when you have Garrett on Clark, let alone calling a play action pass with a quarterback with zero mobility. Thats on Reich.

 

3. Rivers, playing as long as he has, has to know that was going to be a safety. Like someone said early, a vet like him should know to just throw it at the rbs feet.

[Dingus McGirt]

On 10/11/2020 at 10:47 PM, dw49 said:

I'm trying to figure out what was most responsible for the safety. Could someone help me out ?

 

1) N. Hines FC at the 3 yard line. He's done this at least a couple times now , so you would think he would have been schooled ?

2) Rivers not taking an extra second and throwing the ball at the RB's feet. Yeah , the pressure was on but he's a vet and should have been able to pull off a legal throw away.

3) Reich play call. We were running the ball well , get it off your gol line.

 

i trend to lean toward Hines' FC at the 3. That is just such a bad football decision.

 

All the above.

[Four2itus]

7 hours ago, DougDew said:

Rivers was probably the least responsible of the three, at least the person who made the least irresponsible decision.  The DE was on top of him when trying to throw long-ish.  A safety there is better than a sack/fumble.

 

Reich put him in a bad place with the play call.  Still, what Reich did had some merit.  If the team executes...Clark does better....that play could gain yards.

Ya, I agree with this.