QB Jordon Love The Colts Firt Round Pick?

[MikeCurtis]

1 hour ago, Thunderbolt said:

More like it a QB. But prefer Fromm.

Frommderbolt,

 

I think you need to speak up a bit more about how much you like Fromm

 

In my HIGHLY imperfect view of the world, I haven’t really locked in on a have to QB

 

I would be VERY happy with a trade up to get

Tua, Herbert, or Burrows

 

I would be happy to get Love at 13 or a DT

 

I would be happy if we took Eason or Gordon with our later 2nd round pick

 

I would be ok if we took From in the 3rd or 4th round.....  if we didn’t go QB earlier

[MikeCurtis]

Thunderbolt.  I’m just teasing.....

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

 

 

I started thinking about this and if this is true, they were present for half of his games this year watching.  Either they are sold on him or not at this point.  I don't think he could do much to change their minds in a pro daye.  The most important part is still the interview at the combine.  I will say that if they pass, then he was not the guy.  To have all that information and pass on him, would put up a red flag for me.

[Coffeedrinker]

Ok, so I hear (or read) a lot of people on this forum talking about Love and how great he was in 2018 and what a great fit he would be for the Colts.  I have read that 2019 was not a good year because he got a new coach, new offensive system and lost his WRs, that 2018 was the true Jordan Love.  But watching Love in Senior Bowl I was not impressed.  So, I watch his 2018 highlights.  They are highlights they should be his best plays.  But what I saw in those was a few nice throws and a lot of plays where his WRs/RBs made a great play on the ball and/or made something happen after the catch.  Then I watched the USU and Michigan State game, because highlights are just that... highlights so I like to watch a full game to get a better understanding of what the player does in a game.  Take this for whatever you think it's worth.

 

Offensive system:  Like most college systems, Love operated out of the gun exclusively.  It was definitely a single read, run/pass option spread offense.

 

Surrounding cast - Players #1 and #21 are the play makers, #1 was a big bodied receiver with good speed, excellent catch radius, consistent hands and the desire to make the catch every time.  #21 was a smaller, speedy guy who, if he was a running back, ran good routes as a receiever, reliable hands and after the catch would square his shoulders to the endzone and make things happen.

 

What I saw that was good.

- Between the hashes in that vital 8-12 yard range, Love showed good ball placement, good anticipation and good timing.

- On the option plays (whether it's a read/pass or read/run) he seemed to make the correct decision each time.

- Seemed to have good situational awareness.

- Can throw the ball well on designed roll-outs to the right.

- Had good ball placement on screens and passes to the RB in the flats

 

What I didn't see

- Evidence of a monster arm.  Most passes over 30 yards, even in the highlight video, were under thrown causing the receiver to slow down or stand and wait for the ball to arrive.  Nor did I see great accuracy on deep throws.

- Athletic ability - On the few runs he had, he does not look like a natural runner.

- Ability to create when the play breaks down or goes "off script" as it is being described now.  Love made his worst decisions and worst throws when the play broke down.  Whomever came up with this narrative that he was at his best when the play broke down, I sincerely question their understanding of what they are seeing.

 

In summary, after watching the highlights and the MSU game Love is, a one read QB who looks immediately for a check down if his first read is not open.  He has good arm strength but not top tier.  He has good accuracy under 15 yards and then it becomes less and less the further down field the ball travels. In 2018 he had lacked ability to see underneath defenders and it sounds like that plagued him in 2019 and even in the senior bowl practices.  If he had a clean pocket he would stand tall and throw to his first read or check down.  If he didn't have a clean pocket  he makes poor decisions and poor throws.

 

If the Colts draft Love, I will support him like I do any Colts player, meaning I cheer and praise him for things he does well and will point out the things I think he does not do well.  But to me, he is not ready for the NFL and comparisons to Patrick Mahomes are not well founded and more wishful thinking than reality.

 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Ok, so I hear (or read) a lot of people on this forum talking about Love and how great he was in 2018 and what a great fit he would be for the Colts.  I have read that 2019 was not a good year because he got a new coach, new offensive system and lost his WRs, that 2018 was the true Jordan Love.  But watching Love in Senior Bowl I was not impressed.  So, I watch his 2018 highlights.  They are highlights they should be his best plays.  But what I saw in those was a few nice throws and a lot of plays where his WRs/RBs made a great play on the ball and/or made something happen after the catch.  Then I watched the USU and Michigan State game, because highlights are just that... highlights so I like to watch a full game to get a better understanding of what the player does in a game.  Take this for whatever you think it's worth.

 

Offensive system:  Like most college systems, Love operated out of the gun exclusively.  It was definitely a single read, run/pass option spread offense.

 

Surrounding cast - Players #1 and #21 are the play makers, #1 was a big bodied receiver with good speed, excellent catch radius, consistent hands and the desire to make the catch every time.  #21 was a smaller, speedy guy who, if he was a running back, ran good routes as a receiever, reliable hands and after the catch would square his shoulders to the endzone and make things happen.

 

What I saw that was good.

- Between the hashes in that vital 8-12 yard range, Love showed good ball placement, good anticipation and good timing.

- On the option plays (whether it's a read/pass or read/run) he seemed to make the correct decision each time.

- Seemed to have good situational awareness.

- Can throw the ball well on designed roll-outs to the right.

- Had good ball placement on screens and passes to the RB in the flats

 

What I didn't see

- Evidence of a monster arm.  Most passes over 30 yards, even in the highlight video, were under thrown causing the receiver to slow down or stand and wait for the ball to arrive.  Nor did I see great accuracy on deep throws.

- Athletic ability - On the few runs he had, he does not look like a natural runner.

- Ability to create when the play breaks down or goes "off script" as it is being described now.  Love made his worst decisions and worst throws when the play broke down.  Whomever came up with this narrative that he was at his best when the play broke down, I sincerely question their understanding of what they are seeing.

 

In summary, after watching the highlights and the MSU game Love is, a one read QB who looks immediately for a check down if his first read is not open.  He has good arm strength but not top tier.  He has good accuracy under 15 yards and then it becomes less and less the further down field the ball travels. In 2018 he had lacked ability to see underneath defenders and it sounds like that plagued him in 2019 and even in the senior bowl practices.  If he had a clean pocket he would stand tall and throw to his first read or check down.  If he didn't have a clean pocket  he makes poor decisions and poor throws.

 

If the Colts draft Love, I will support him like I do any Colts player, meaning I cheer and praise him for things he does well and will point out the things I think he does not do well.  But to me, he is not ready for the NFL and comparisons to Patrick Mahomes are not well founded and more wishful thinking than reality.

 

 

There are a lot of things to like about Jordan Love - he has good touch and timing with accuracy in the intermediate range, whether in the pocket or on the run. But Jordan Love is more RG3 type to me w.r.t reads and if given a lot of time, will find others, but he isn't Patrick Mahomes. I know RG3 was drafted high but that is the very nature of the QB position, typically over drafted. RG3 did well when he had to make simple reads, it was Garcon or Morris or RG3 running, most of the time in Year 1 but once teams took those initial reads away and he had his injury running around, he couldn't adapt.

 

Love makes excellent decisions in read option plays and should do well with being coached up in a scheme involving RPOs. However, it will take him a while to get better with read progression, our coaches and staff should decide if they feel he can get better with it if he sat 1 year. I feel the white board talk from coaches and interviews will tell us a lot what he can absorb, and like you, I will support him if the Colts draft him, for certain.

 

Overall, I just do not think he is worthy of our No.13 pick. I have been wrong before, but I am coming to similar conclusions as you are.

[Coffeedrinker]

41 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

There are a lot of things to like about Jordan Love - he has good touch and timing with accuracy in the intermediate range, whether in the pocket or on the run. But Jordan Love is more RG3 type to me w.r.t reads and if given a lot of time, will find others, but he isn't Patrick Mahomes. I know RG3 was drafted high but that is the very nature of the QB position, typically over drafted. RG3 did well when he had to make simple reads, it was Garcon or Morris or RG3 running, most of the time in Year 1 but once teams took those initial reads away and he had his injury running around, he couldn't adapt.

 

Love makes excellent decisions in read option plays and should do well with being coached up in a scheme involving RPOs. However, it will take him a while to get better with read progression, our coaches and staff should decide if they feel he can get better with it if he sat 1 year. I feel the white board talk from coaches and interviews will tell us a lot what he can absorb, and like you, I will support him if the Colts draft him, for certain.

 

Overall, I just do not think he is worthy of our No.13 pick. I have been wrong before, but I am coming to similar conclusions as you are.

RGIII is probably a good comparison.  But without the running/athletic ability

[stitches]

2 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Ok, so I hear (or read) a lot of people on this forum talking about Love and how great he was in 2018 and what a great fit he would be for the Colts.  I have read that 2019 was not a good year because he got a new coach, new offensive system and lost his WRs, that 2018 was the true Jordan Love.  But watching Love in Senior Bowl I was not impressed.  So, I watch his 2018 highlights.  They are highlights they should be his best plays.  But what I saw in those was a few nice throws and a lot of plays where his WRs/RBs made a great play on the ball and/or made something happen after the catch.  Then I watched the USU and Michigan State game, because highlights are just that... highlights so I like to watch a full game to get a better understanding of what the player does in a game.  Take this for whatever you think it's worth.

 

Offensive system:  Like most college systems, Love operated out of the gun exclusively.  It was definitely a single read, run/pass option spread offense.

 

Surrounding cast - Players #1 and #21 are the play makers, #1 was a big bodied receiver with good speed, excellent catch radius, consistent hands and the desire to make the catch every time.  #21 was a smaller, speedy guy who, if he was a running back, ran good routes as a receiever, reliable hands and after the catch would square his shoulders to the endzone and make things happen.

 

What I saw that was good.

- Between the hashes in that vital 8-12 yard range, Love showed good ball placement, good anticipation and good timing.

- On the option plays (whether it's a read/pass or read/run) he seemed to make the correct decision each time.

- Seemed to have good situational awareness.

- Can throw the ball well on designed roll-outs to the right.

- Had good ball placement on screens and passes to the RB in the flats

 

What I didn't see

- Evidence of a monster arm.  Most passes over 30 yards, even in the highlight video, were under thrown causing the receiver to slow down or stand and wait for the ball to arrive.  Nor did I see great accuracy on deep throws.

- Athletic ability - On the few runs he had, he does not look like a natural runner.

- Ability to create when the play breaks down or goes "off script" as it is being described now.  Love made his worst decisions and worst throws when the play broke down.  Whomever came up with this narrative that he was at his best when the play broke down, I sincerely question their understanding of what they are seeing.

 

In summary, after watching the highlights and the MSU game Love is, a one read QB who looks immediately for a check down if his first read is not open.  He has good arm strength but not top tier.  He has good accuracy under 15 yards and then it becomes less and less the further down field the ball travels. In 2018 he had lacked ability to see underneath defenders and it sounds like that plagued him in 2019 and even in the senior bowl practices.  If he had a clean pocket he would stand tall and throw to his first read or check down.  If he didn't have a clean pocket  he makes poor decisions and poor throws.

 

If the Colts draft Love, I will support him like I do any Colts player, meaning I cheer and praise him for things he does well and will point out the things I think he does not do well.  But to me, he is not ready for the NFL and comparisons to Patrick Mahomes are not well founded and more wishful thinking than reality.

 

 

 

Try this one for the flash(the arm, the off-script on the move throws, athleticism). This specific 2018 highlight vid doesn't have some of his most impressive throws for the year. In 2018 he was playing more within the structure of the offense, because he had better protection and better weapons(and playcalling). In 2019 his protection was horrible and he had to run for his life a ton and his receivers were dropping a ton of balls. Not only did he lose his whole coaching staff in 2019, but also lost 9 of the other 10 starters. Including all offensive linemen + he lost 2 more offensive linemen to injuries by game 3. 

 

It's a weird juxtaposition, because part of what you write is correct - a lot of his high end appeal is his ability to make plays off-script, but at the same time when things collapsed around him was when he was making a lot of his mistakes(had passing rating of 51 under pressure for example), but when he was kept clean and his receivers won their routes he was money - he was no. 2 in the entire country(only behind Burrow) on big time throws(23) when his receiver had 1 step or more of separation and had only 2 turnover worthy plays on such throws. IMO a lot of his troubles come when he leaves the pocket and tries to play hero ball and make too ambitious of a throw. His decisionmaking in such situations needs improvement. Sometimes he just needs to throw it away or run out of bounds IMO. A lot of it will be up to coaching. But you also don't want to cut his wings when you are talking about his off-structure plays because he can makes a ton of exceptional plays too. Rein him in, refine his feel for when it's OK to try some of those throws, eliminate the silly ones. 

 

About his arm - another juxtaposition - he has amazing touch. IMO this is why people don't get how strong his arm is - because they expect everything to be thrown with 100 miles an hour fast ball and he doesn't throw like this unless he needs it... in fact he throws almost everything with touch. Even some of the 50 yard bombs are thrown with great arc and drop like descended with a parachute in his receivers laps. But the arm-strength is easily visible... even some of the next gen measurements at the Senior Bowl confirmed it. I posted them somewhere in the Senior Bowl thread if you want to check them out. 

[Fisticuffs111]

Yeah, my concerns with Love locking on to his first read and IMO just struggling with reading the defense at times make me tentative.

 

I’m just worried that his mistakes are going to be very hard to correct. Love everything about him when it comes to his arm, decent mobility, etc. But I’m very curious how he’ll do when it comes to the white board interviews.

[stitches]

8 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Yeah, my concerns with Love locking on to his first read and IMO just struggling with reads in general are what kind of make me tentative. 

 

I’m just worried that his mistakes are going to be very hard to correct. Love everything about him when it comes to his arm, decent mobility, etc. But I’m very curious to see how he does when it comes to white board interviews.

Yep, this will be key IMO. This is what will either make or break his stock. Is he going to be Mahomes/Josh Allen and win over the coaching staffs or is he going to be Deshone Kizer-type? 

 

This is the low end comp that I cringe everytime I think about it, but I cannot deny it - this is what he might look like if he can't process things, if he is not coachable, etc. This is the other side of the flip coin.

 

Disclaimer: I really liked Kizer when he was coming out of college too. 

[Coffeedrinker]

44 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

There are a lot of things to like about Jordan Love - he has good touch and timing with accuracy in the intermediate range, whether in the pocket or on the run. But Jordan Love is more RG3 type to me w.r.t reads and if given a lot of time, will find others, but he isn't Patrick Mahomes. I know RG3 was drafted high but that is the very nature of the QB position, typically over drafted. RG3 did well when he had to make simple reads, it was Garcon or Morris or RG3 running, most of the time in Year 1 but once teams took those initial reads away and he had his injury running around, he couldn't adapt.

 

Love makes excellent decisions in read option plays and should do well with being coached up in a scheme involving RPOs. However, it will take him a while to get better with read progression, our coaches and staff should decide if they feel he can get better with it if he sat 1 year. I feel the white board talk from coaches and interviews will tell us a lot what he can absorb, and like you, I will support him if the Colts draft him, for certain.

 

Overall, I just do not think he is worthy of our No.13 pick. I have been wrong before, but I am coming to similar conclusions as you are.

Additionally, I agree he's not worthy of a #13 pick, so then the team is looking at him in the 2nd or trading up into the late 1st, then, IMO, there are better prospects to groom than Love.  But, like you said, that s up to the coaches and FO to decide who had the better ability to grow into what they want, I understand my information to make that decision is very limited.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Love did nothing wrong in the senior bowl. The oline for some penalties that pushed him back. One deep pass the WR didn’t track the ball. The other pass his WR was held. He had a lot of handoffs but finished 4/6. He did nothing to make anyone feel unimpressed.

 

I have seen enough videos of him scanning the field and looking off safeties I think the locking onto receivers is just not completely true. Maybe in 2019 because he only had one WR.

 

If he is a coachable kid he will be fine. Everything I have read he takes direction and coaching very well.

[Coffeedrinker]

20 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

Try this one for the flash(the arm, the off-script on the move throws, athleticism). This specific 2018 highlight vid doesn't have some of his most impressive throws for the year. In 2018 he was playing more within the structure of the offense, because he had better protection and better weapons(and playcalling). In 2019 his protection was horrible and he had to run for his life a ton and his receivers were dropping a ton of balls. Not only did he lose his whole coaching staff in 2019, but also lost 9 of the other 10 starters. Including all offensive linemen + he lost 2 more offensive linemen to injuries by game 3. 

 

It's a weird juxtaposition, because part of what you write is correct - a lot of his high end appeal is his ability to make plays off-script, but at the same time when things collapsed around him was when he was making a lot of his mistakes(had passing rating of 51 under pressure for example), but when he was kept clean and his receivers won their routes he was money - he was no. 2 in the entire country(only behind Burrow) on big time throws(23) when his receiver had 1 step or more of separation and had only 2 turnover worthy plays on such throws. IMO a lot of his troubles come when he leaves the pocket and tries to play hero ball and make too ambitious of a throw. His decisionmaking in such situations needs improvement. Sometimes he just needs to throw it away or run out of bounds IMO. A lot of it will be up to coaching. But you also don't want to cut his wings when you are talking about his off-structure plays because he can makes a ton of exceptional plays too. Rein him in, refine his feel for when it's OK to try some of those throws, eliminate the silly ones. 

 

About his arm - another juxtaposition - he has amazing touch. IMO this is why people don't get how strong his arm is - because they expect everything to be thrown with 100 miles an hour fast ball and he doesn't throw like this unless he needs it... in fact he throws almost everything with touch. Even some of the 50 yard bombs are thrown with great arc and drop like descended with a parachute in his receivers laps. But the arm-strength is easily visible... even some of the next gen measurements at the Senior Bowl confirmed it. I posted them somewhere in the Senior Bowl thread if you want to check them out. 

Thanks for posting.  Again, I only looked at 2018 because that is suppose to be the true Jordan Love.  In the video you posted that did show a bit of a better arm, but even with that, it looks like good arm strength, not great.  It would put him in the upper half of NFL arms, but probably not in the top 10.  As far as his going off script, there was not a lot of that in the video you posted.

 

I know you like him Stitches and, especially if the Colts draft him, I hope you are right and I am wrong.

[stitches]

11 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Thanks for posting.  Again, I only looked at 2018 because that is suppose to be the true Jordan Love.  In the video you posted that did show a bit of a better arm, but even with that, it looks like good arm strength, not great.  It would put him in the upper half of NFL arms, but probably not in the top 10.  As far as his going off script, there was not a lot of that in the video you posted.

 

I know you like him Stitches and, especially if the Colts draft him, I hope you are right and I am wrong.

Yeah, he's my guy in this year's class. Not that I think he's the best, but it seems like I like him better than most people and I think he can be a real fun player. But I fully realize the risk. There is a not insignificant bust potential with him(higher than probably any of the top 5-6 QBs). But at the same time with the QB position, I kind of like boom or bust prospects. I don't want mediocrity out of my QB. I want him to either be great so we'd invest in him or a bust so we can move on ASAP. 

 

It will be interesting several months before the draft for sure. For some reason I'm having a bad feeling that Ballard might try to give JB another shot. 

[ztboiler]

46 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yeah, he's my guy in this year's class. Not that I think he's the best, but it seems like I like him better than most people and I think he can be a real fun player. But I fully realize the risk. There is a not insignificant bust potential with him(higher than probably any of the top 5-6 QBs). But at the same time with the QB position, I kind of like boom or bust prospects. I don't want mediocrity out of my QB. I want him to either be great so we'd invest in him or a bust so we can move on ASAP. 

 

It will be interesting several months before the draft for sure. For some reason I'm having a bad feeling that Ballard might try to give JB another shot. 

If by “Give JB another shot” you mean that Ballard will prioritize players with more long term roster value than QBs he’s in position to draft...I’m quite afraid of that as well...we all should be. Ballard won’t budge on his board.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Yeah, he's my guy in this year's class. Not that I think he's the best, but it seems like I like him better than most people and I think he can be a real fun player. But I fully realize the risk. There is a not insignificant bust potential with him(higher than probably any of the top 5-6 QBs). But at the same time with the QB position, I kind of like boom or bust prospects. I don't want mediocrity out of my QB. I want him to either be great so we'd invest in him or a bust so we can move on ASAP. 

 

It will be interesting several months before the draft for sure. For some reason I'm having a bad feeling that Ballard might try to give JB another shot. 

That is probably the difference in us.  You see Love as a boom or bust prospect.  Me, I don't see a lot of boom in him.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Love did nothing wrong in the senior bowl. The oline for some penalties that pushed him back. One deep pass the WR didn’t track the ball. The other pass his WR was held. He had a lot of handoffs but finished 4/6. He did nothing to make anyone feel unimpressed.

He played 2 quarters and had 4 completions for 26 yards.  That is not impressive.  He did 

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

I have seen enough videos of him scanning the field and looking off safeties I think the locking onto receivers is just not completely true. Maybe in 2019 because he only had one WR.

Really?  Post some.

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

If he is a coachable kid he will be fine. Everything I have read he takes direction and coaching very well.

Again please post that he takes direction and coaching well.  I'm not saying he doesn't, it's not something I have seen about him and when you look at reports of him after 2018 and then updated after 2019, they read about the same which indicates he has not improved upon his weaknesses.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Disclaimer: I really liked Kizer when he was coming out of college too. 

That's ok, in 1998 I wanted the Colts to draft Wadsworth in the 1st round and Brian Griese in the 2nd.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

He played 2 quarters and had 4 completions for 26 yards.  That is not impressive.  He did 

Really?  Post some.

Again please post that he takes direction and coaching well.  I'm not saying he doesn't, it's not something I have seen about him and when you look at reports of him after 2018 and then updated after 2019, they read about the same which indicates he has not improved upon his weaknesses.

There are plenty of articles out there. Just google.

 

He was 4/6 because they ran it a lot when he was in there. The fourth quarter they just had him handing it off to milk the clock.

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

That's ok, in 1998 I wanted the Colts to draft Wadsworth in the 1st round and Brian Griese in the 2nd.

I sleep well knowing I'm not making any decisions for multi-billion dollar teams.  

[Thunderbolt]

"Mike Curtis", it's all good Bro.  What I'm thinking is, if we don't get any of the Blue Chippers on this draft, I don't know that for sure if they are going to turn out that way.  I'm saying is the other option is Fromm, I've seen his highlights, and I've seen the others and I'm sold with Fromm of his accuracy, his character and leadership.   Just saying. 

[Coffeedrinker]

11 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

There are plenty of articles out there. Just google.

I did, and I haven't found anything examples of him scanning the field or that he takes to coaching well.

But it's your claim, I figured you could back it up.

11 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

He was 4/6 because they ran it a lot when he was in there. The fourth quarter they just had him handing it off to milk the clock.

Ok, in the 1st quarter when they were behind by 7 he was 2 of 4 for 15 yards.  His long pass of 11 yards was on 3rd and 13.

[stitches]

15 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I did, and I haven't found anything examples of him scanning the field or that he takes to coaching well.

But it's your claim, I figured you could back it up.

Ok, in the 1st quarter when they were behind by 7 he was 2 of 4 for 15 yards.  His long pass of 11 yards was on 3rd and 13.

Not sure if you watched the game, so if you did forgive me for this explanation.

 

He should have been 6/6 for about 150 yards and a TD. The miss in the first Q was a perfectly placed ball to the sideline about 25-30 yards downfield. His receiver got held/interfered(nothing called) so he couldn't complete the catch. His second missed throw was this:

 

Love navigated collapsing pocket and threw what seemed off one foot pass 50 yards downfield. Mims didn't even turn to see the ball. The ball lands like... 2 yards next to him. This is a TD if he just tracks the ball and catches it. 

 

BTW Matt Patricia's playcalling was horrible all game long. He was calling runs on 1st and 2nd and long all the time. 

 

 

[Coffeedrinker]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

Not sure if you watched the game, so if you did forgive me for this explanation.

 

He should have been 6/6 for about 150 yards and a TD. The miss in the first Q was a perfectly placed ball to the sideline about 25-30 yards downfield. His receiver got held/interfered(nothing called) so he couldn't complete the catch. His second missed throw was this:

 

Love navigated collapsing pocket and threw what seemed off one foot pass 50 yards downfield. Mims didn't even turn to see the ball. The ball lands like... 2 yards next to him. This is a TD if he just tracks the ball and catches it. 

 

 

 

Yeah, I've said (I think in this thread) that was a good throw.  Mims lost the ball in the sun.

 

 

[ztboiler]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Not sure if you watched the game, so if you did forgive me for this explanation.

 

He should have been 6/6 for about 150 yards and a TD. The miss in the first Q was a perfectly placed ball to the sideline about 25-30 yards downfield. His receiver got held/interfered(nothing called) so he couldn't complete the catch. His second missed throw was this:

 

Love navigated collapsing pocket and threw what seemed off one foot pass 50 yards downfield. Mims didn't even turn to see the ball. The ball lands like... 2 yards next to him. This is a TD if he just tracks the ball and catches it. 

 

 

 

That ball went 60 yards in the air on a pretty effortless flick of the wrist....

[stitches]

5 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Yeah, I've said (I think in this thread) that was a good throw.  Mims lost the ball in the sun.

 

 

I'm not sure he even lost it in the sun. Did he even turn? I can't quite tell... maybe his head is slightly towards the throw and he indeed lost it. On first several watches it looked like he didn't even turn. 

[stitches]

9 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Yeah, I've said (I think in this thread) that was a good throw.  Mims lost the ball in the sun.

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

That ball went 60 yards in the air on a pretty effortless flick of the wrist....

Found the second one too(go to 14:10):

 

 

 

[Coffeedrinker]

13 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

Found the second one too(go to 14:10):

 

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, stitches said:

I'm not sure he even lost it in the sun. Did he even turn? I can't quite tell... maybe his head is slightly towards the throw and he indeed lost it. On first several watches it looked like he didn't even turn. 

yeah you can see him find the ball, adjust his route a bit and then just run past it.  I don't know for sure that he lost it in the sun, his reactions are just what I have seen before when a player loses the ball in the sun.

[OffensivelyPC]

2 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Thanks for posting.  Again, I only looked at 2018 because that is suppose to be the true Jordan Love.  In the video you posted that did show a bit of a better arm, but even with that, it looks like good arm strength, not great.  It would put him in the upper half of NFL arms, but probably not in the top 10.  As far as his going off script, there was not a lot of that in the video you posted.

 

I know you like him Stitches and, especially if the Colts draft him, I hope you are right and I am wrong.

His arm accuracy did improve from 2018 to 2019.  I watched about every game I could find on YT (seemed to be roughly 3-4 each year).  There's still some of the inaccurate throws here and there with guys waiting for the ball to get to them.  But generally speaking, to me at least, it was notably better, which is what you want to see.  If it were the same, obviously, it'd be an even bigger flag.

 

But arm strength is, I'm sure you know, more than just throwing it far.  Can you throw a 30 yard pass on a rope?  Jake Fromm couldn't, but Love can.  I'm not pounding the table for the guy, necessarily.  I have plenty of concerns with him just like you do (many the same that didn't really improve from 2018 to 2019).  It's difficult ot know how much of that is his returning to USU for the 2019 season and having practically an entirely different team around him from the players to the coaching staff.  Still doesn't excuse some of his poor decision making.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 minute ago, OffensivelyPC said:

His arm accuracy did improve from 2018 to 2019.  I watched about every game I could find on YT (seemed to be roughly 3-4 each year).  There's still some of the inaccurate throws here and there with guys waiting for the ball to get to them.  But generally speaking, to me at least, it was notably better, which is what you want to see.  If it were the same, obviously, it'd be an even bigger flag.

 

But arm strength is, I'm sure you know, more than just throwing it far.  Can you throw a 30 yard pass on a rope?  Jake Fromm couldn't, but Love can.  I'm not pounding the table for the guy, necessarily.  I have plenty of concerns with him just like you do (many the same that didn't really improve from 2018 to 2019).  It's difficult ot know how much of that is his returning to USU for the 2019 season and having practically an entirely different team around him from the players to the coaching staff.  Still doesn't excuse some of his poor decision making.

Just want to add, I don't think Love has a weak arm.  But I've read reports and comments on here that his arm is not quite as good as mahomes but near that level and it's just not near that level.  Like I said, I think his arm strength would put him in the top half of the league, but it's not elite.

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, ztboiler said:

If by “Give JB another shot” you mean that Ballard will prioritize players with more long term roster value than QBs he’s in position to draft...I’m quite afraid of that as well...we all should be. Ballard won’t budge on his board.

I don't think that's necessarily a problem, we have control over, though.  I mean sure he could trade up or down and manipulate draft position to get a guy that can at least challenge JB.  I'd prefer to secure the future stocking the roster, and tout out a capable backup for another year.  Projecting QBs is just something tha'ts nearly impossible for any team to do, let alone us commoners.  Even then, the only guys I really like this year are Burrows and Love so far.  I'm terrified of drafting Tua and I haven't watched Herbert yet.  I don't like Eason and I think Fromm is basically another Jacoby Brissett.  Other prospects I may look at, but now we're getting into the 3rd round and below long(er) shots.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Just want to add, I don't think Love has a weak arm.  But I've read reports and comments on here that his arm is not quite as good as mahomes but near that level and it's just not near that level.  Like I said, I think his arm strength would put him in the top half of the league, but it's not elite.

He fired a fifty yard pass on one foot while the pocket collapsed in the senior bowl. It was effortless. I would say it’s elite. Like it was mentioned he can throw it hard into right wibdows if needed or throw with great touch. Not a lot of QB can do that.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, OffensivelyPC said:

I don't think that's necessarily a problem, we have control over, though.  I mean sure he could trade up or down and manipulate draft position to get a guy that can at least challenge JB.  I'd prefer to secure the future stocking the roster, and tout out a capable backup for another year.  Projecting QBs is just something tha'ts nearly impossible for any team to do, let alone us commoners.  Even then, the only guys I really like this year are Burrows and Love so far.  I'm terrified of drafting Tua and I haven't watched Herbert yet.  I don't like Eason and I think Fromm is basically another Jacoby Brissett.  Other prospects I may look at, but now we're getting into the 3rd round and below long(er) shots.

The draft class next year might be worse. It’s not about reaching. If there is one there this year they are sold on you try and do everything to get them. Especially this year when you have that high second round extra pick.  There is no guarantee what next year will bring. You could be picking lower, there may not be a QB. There is no guarantee Lawrence or Fields comes out. We will never be in position to get them anyway.  So when you need the future you go get them if there is one your sold on. 

[OffensivelyPC]

3 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Just want to add, I don't think Love has a weak arm.  But I've read reports and comments on here that his arm is not quite as good as mahomes but near that level and it's just not near that level.  Like I said, I think his arm strength would put him in the top half of the league, but it's not elite.

I coudl probably agree with that.  Good enough, but it's not like it's coming from Jamarcus Russel's arm or anything.  I can understand the Pat Mahomes comparisons, if for no other reason tha nthat's what everyone wants these days.  But the comparisons are at best, stylistically so because as you say, they are not physically in the same territory.  Love makes some Mahomes-esque type plays, but Mahomes arm strength, accuracy, quickness and speed are leagues beyond Love.  

[EastStreet]

11 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Just want to add, I don't think Love has a weak arm.  But I've read reports and comments on here that his arm is not quite as good as mahomes but near that level and it's just not near that level.  Like I said, I think his arm strength would put him in the top half of the league, but it's not elite.

I've read 20+ reviews on Love, and not one was negative on his arm strength. Several praised his arm strength with a few saying he had a cannon. A few said he could vary arm angle like Mahomes.

 

Here's 5 reviews on one site.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/jordan-love/PbA4nRzHfK

 

Honestly, I don't care if he has the strongest arm in the league. A lot of guys have cannons and can't hit the broad side of the barn. And define elite. Is elite being able to throw it 60 yards without accuracy? Or throw it 40-50 with accuracy? JB has a cannon and stinks deep. He also lacks touch and throws short heaters too. Arm strength really hasn't done much for his game.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I coudl probably agree with that.  Good enough, but it's not like it's coming from Jamarcus Russel's arm or anything.  I can understand the Pat Mahomes comparisons, if for no other reason tha nthat's what everyone wants these days.  But the comparisons are at best, stylistically so because as you say, they are not physically in the same territory.  Love makes some Mahomes-esque type plays, but Mahomes arm strength, accuracy, quickness and speed are leagues beyond Love.  

Mahomes just finished his third season. Love has yet to play a down in the nfl. It is not fair to compare them right now. All anyone has said is that Love makes a lot of off script plays like Mahomes. His ability to make plays when things break down is similar. Anyone who is saying they are comparable at this point when Mahomes is finishing his third season are silly. All anyone is saying is they have some similar traits.

[BleedBlu8792]

9 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The draft class next year might be worse. It’s not about reaching. If there is one there this year they are sold on you try and do everything to get them. Especially this year when you have that high second round extra pick.  There is no guarantee what next year will bring. You could be picking lower, there may not be a QB. There is no guarantee Lawrence or Fields comes out. We will never be in position to get them anyway.  So when you need the future you go get them if there is one your sold on. 

 

Unless they get hurt, the are absolutely coming out.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Unless they get hurt, the are absolutely coming out.

Peyton went back. There is no guarantee. We aren’t getting  them anyway so throw that out the window.

[Coffeedrinker]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I've read 20+ reviews on Love, and not one was negative on his arm strength. Several praised his arm strength with a few saying he had a cannon. A few said he could vary arm angle like Mahomes.

When did I say there were reports that showed his arm strength as a negative?

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Here's 5 reviews on one site.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/jordan-love/PbA4nRzHfK

 

Honestly, I don't care if he has the strongest arm in the league. A lot of guys have cannons and can't hit the broad side of the barn. And define elite. Is elite being able to throw it 60 yards without accuracy? Or throw it 40-50 with accuracy? JB has a cannon and stinks deep. He also lacks touch and throws short heaters too. Arm strength really hasn't done much for his game.

I agree, I don't think arm strength is a top 5 attribute for QBs.  All I stated was his arm does not look as strong as a lot people are trying to claim.

[OffensivelyPC]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The draft class next year might be worse. It’s not about reaching. If there is one there this year they are sold on you try and do everything to get them. Especially this year when you have that high second round extra pick.  There is no guarantee what next year will bring. You could be picking lower, there may not be a QB. There is no guarantee Lawrence or Fields comes out. We will never be in position to get them anyway.  So when you need the future you go get them if there is one your sold on. 

I'm not arguing against your point, I think.  Your point and my point can co-exist.  

 

All I'm saying is we don't have to do something stupid this year and impact future years.  Not drafting a QB could obviously impact future years, as well.  But because no one can really predict draft classes with pinpoint accuracy, its even more unpredictable for future years.  Draft wisely, and things tend to work themselves out.  There's always a couple good QB prospects every year.  Whether they succeed in the NFL is a different story, but for every QB that we've predicted would be a strong NFL QB and hit, we have a 10 more we could easily say were wrong (for better or worse).  So, spend wisely and trust your evaluations and coaching staff to get the right prospect.

[runthepost]

I’ll say this about Love and Mahomes. I thought Mahomes would be the 2nd best QB in his draft after Watson due to Watson’s body of work at Clemson. Mahomes in college could put up 40 points and lose and was seen as a the next Brett Farve or Jay Cutler. Yes Love is good but I don’t think he’s as good as a prospect as Mahomes or Watson when they were coming out