SI: Why Brissett is still the Colts' future (Bonus: Trivia)

[crazycolt1]

5 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Our organization is a bit different than the Browns lol. I'd also be fine taking some calculated risks. Building a roster to offset the limitations of a low ceiling QB is generally not a recipe for consistent post season success. Either the planets have to align in getting the right QB in the draft, or align to allow a game manager QB to go far in the post season.

 

And right or wrong, ticket sales and attendance aren't very kind when it comes to a game manager QB in general. And in Indy, the impact is likely doubled given what the fan base has come to expect over the last 20 years. It's going to be interesting (Ballard). I could also see Irsay "helping" the decision.

Irsay is going to let Ballard run this team and will not stick his nose in it. 

[esmort]

6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Irsay is going to let Ballard run this team and will not stick his nose in it. 

 

I can't tell if this is serious or sarcastic. 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, esmort said:

 

I can't tell if this is serious or sarcastic. 

Irsay does not meddle with the GM till it's time to fire them. 

He won't change with his history. 

[esmort]

14 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Irsay does not meddle with the GM till it's time to fire them. 

He won't change with his history. 

 

I think Irsay is a good owner who stays out of most things.  But I believe that he is involved with decisions of this magnitude that potentially change the course of the franchise.  I think if you believe he didn't make it known who he wanted when we chose Luck you are kidding yourself.  I would say he made the Manning decisions as well.  He may not come out and dictate who Ballard chooses in the 1st round this coming draft, but I would bet a large sum of money his opinion on the matter is known and weighs heavy in the decision process. 

[lollygagger8]

Sports Illustrated is right up the with ESPN for me. 

 

 

Hard pass. 

[MPStack]

3 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Sports Illustrated is right up the with ESPN for me. 

 

 

Hard pass. 

I miss when MTV, used to be MTV. 

[aaron11]

9 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Irsay does not meddle with the GM till it's time to fire them. 

He won't change with his history. 

he has gotten involved with QB decisions.  he said they were taking luck and would not trade peyton when polian wanted to talk about it

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

If I have learned anything over this year it is that you can argue all you want, there is a section of Colts fans that just hate JB because, in my opinion, they are upset at Andrew Luck and don't want to be.  So they are taking it out on JB.  All sections of Colts fans thought this year was going to be a great year and are disappointed with the way it turned out.  But remember we are 6-7 with 3 games remaining and still a chance at the playoffs.

 

It seems that everyone is afraid to criticize Luck because they feel he won't come back if we say negative things about him.  So they blast JB.

 

Commons comments:

 

We were 5-2 in spite of JB but are now 1-5 because of him. 

 

We needed him to score touchdowns not get field goals (but have left 33 points on the board due to missed FG and XP)

 

We were 5-2 but that was because of the defense being amazing and need more points from him.  Then he puts 35 on the board at Tampa and the defense gives up 38... but it is his fault.

 

I have just given up defending JB because I have learned that I'm not gonna win over anyone.  We will agree to disagree and that is okay.

[aaron11]

8 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

We were 5-2 in spite of JB but are now 1-5 because of him. 

 

he is about a .500 QB, that makes perfect sense

 

.500 isnt good enough for this fan base

[The Fish]

4 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

If I have learned anything over this year it is that you can argue all you want, there is a section of Colts fans that just hate JB because, in my opinion, they are upset at Andrew Luck and don't want to be.  So they are taking it out on JB.  All sections of Colts fans thought this year was going to be a great year and are disappointed with the way it turned out.  But remember we are 6-7 with 3 games remaining and still a chance at the playoffs.

 

It seems that everyone is afraid to criticize Luck because they feel he won't come back if we say negative things about him.  So they blast JB.

 

 

I'm not so sure this is about individual players, it's more about general disappointment. It can't be overstated enough that this year was projected to matter with Luck at the helm and it's turned into this season and an impending backside kicking coming against the Saints- there's some history here and I'd love to see our guys go in there and exact a small portion of revenge, but there's no realistic shot, unless Reich dials up the KC game plan and Brees sucks.

You can try to quantify why people are taking the losses as they do (usually somewhat short sided, myself included), but honestly I think most Colts fans want(ed) JB to perform better than he has- they're just judging what they're seeing and what they're seeing is a guy who's not nearly good enough to fulfill Super Bowl thirst (fastball high, kuckleball at the feet, his two most common passes). If everything is right around JB, we're a Wild Card type team. The only real argument for JB is simply that it's hard to find people who can play competently. It's real possible that the decade long void of meaningless, boring, losing football is around the corner and people are afraid of that (ME!). Does JB help the franchise avoid that or facilitate it. That's what I'm wondering. 

[lollygagger8]

2 hours ago, MPStack said:

I miss when MTV, used to be MTV. 

 

Music Videos?? What are those!? lol 

[The Fish]

2 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

Music Videos?? What are those!? lol 

video's that made the music a secondary concern..

[Dogg63]

24 minutes ago, The Fish said:

video's that made the music a secondary concern..

Like this one? 

 

[Fluke_33]

46 minutes ago, The Fish said:

video's that made the music a secondary concern..

and killed the radio star

[EastStreet]

12 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Irsay is going to let Ballard run this team and will not stick his nose in it. 

 

Maybe, maybe not. Even the most hands off owners get involved when it comes to hiring coaches and QBs.. Given Indy's QB-centric past 20 years, I doubt he stays totally hands off given the attendance drops. 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

Maybe, maybe not. Even the most hands off owners get involved when it comes to hiring coaches and QBs.. Given Indy's QB-centric past 20 years, I doubt he stays totally hands off given the attendance drops. 

Yes Irsay is part of the whole picture.

Ballard himself has a whole 'crew' that works together from top to bottom.

One thing that happens every year is the fan base is way off base if they think they know what is best or what's going to happen. 

All of us can have opinions on what the front office should do but 99% of the time don't have a clue on what happens in reality.

 

[crazycolt1]

5 hours ago, aaron11 said:

he has gotten involved with QB decisions.  he said they were taking luck and would not trade peyton when polian wanted to talk about it

There is not a Manning or a Luck in this up coming draft so Irsay will let the drafting crew do their job. 

 

[TimetobringDfence!]

I'll openly blast both. If luck had the drive and will of manning or brady he could have been an alltime great. And Jacoby is just flatout a game manager who is intelligent enough to see his deficiencies. He can play 100% to his capabilities and that puts him as good back up at best. 

[horseshoecrabs]

Injuries is something every NFL team has to try to overcome, When you have to have every starter playing, to be competitive, Then it shows that we still have a lot depth positions on our squad to fill.   

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yes Irsay is part of the whole picture.

Ballard himself has a whole 'crew' that works together from top to bottom.

One thing that happens every year is the fan base is way off base if they think they know what is best or what's going to happen. 

All of us can have opinions on what the front office should do but 99% of the time don't have a clue on what happens in reality.

 

It will be interesting at the very least.

The fans aren't normally too "off", at least the educated ones. Even the NFL.com and ESPN guys crash and burn on their mocks. I wasn't too far off except for the DT position. As the roster improves, improving via the draft gets more challenging, but the holes become more glaring and somewhat easier to predict.

[aaron11]

15 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

There is not a Manning or a Luck in this up coming draft so Irsay will let the drafting crew do their job. 

 

 

you are probably right but i would still not be shocked if he said to get a QB to at least compete with JB.  i doubt he would say to draft one in the first or tell them who to get though 

[EastStreet]

16 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

There is not a Manning or a Luck in this up coming draft so Irsay will let the drafting crew do their job. 

 

But that's what they likely said about Mahomes, Wilson, Prescott, and Jackson too. And they are the top 4 in QBR right now, and 3 of those have very good shots at a SB this year.

[Colts_Fan12]

19 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

I don't think anyone thinks it's easy. I think most simply would prefer risk to settling. Teams draft and replace players every year. Just because it's the "QB" position doesn't mean fans will be content with less than average or average. If anything, they're willing to accept more risk.

 

We're not a rebuilding team like Cinci or Miami. One side of O (running) is very good, and our OL is top 5. We're one of the better teams in terms of landing spots for a rook QB, so the risk is likely less here, than a place like Miami or Cinci... 

BINGO!! I'd rather risk getting an upgrade and suck then stay with JB and suck lol

[Colts_Fan12]

3 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

If I have learned anything over this year it is that you can argue all you want, there is a section of Colts fans that just hate JB because, in my opinion, they are upset at Andrew Luck and don't want to be.  So they are taking it out on JB.  All sections of Colts fans thought this year was going to be a great year and are disappointed with the way it turned out.  But remember we are 6-7 with 3 games remaining and still a chance at the playoffs.

 

It seems that everyone is afraid to criticize Luck because they feel he won't come back if we say negative things about him.  So they blast JB.

 

Commons comments:

 

We were 5-2 in spite of JB but are now 1-5 because of him. 

 

We needed him to score touchdowns not get field goals (but have left 33 points on the board due to missed FG and XP)

 

We were 5-2 but that was because of the defense being amazing and need more points from him.  Then he puts 35 on the board at Tampa and the defense gives up 38... but it is his fault.

 

I have just given up defending JB because I have learned that I'm not gonna win over anyone.  We will agree to disagree and that is okay.

no one is being mean because of luck or because they hate JB they are upset cause the guy has been average as hell and hasn't improved like at all since college lol

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

BINGO!! if rather risk getting an upgrade and suck then stay with JB and suck lol

Yup, I'd rather roll the dice and potentially suck than not try to improve. Right now I can't envision the Colts being in a SB game. I'd rather draft a QB every two years until we get it right, then to become accustomed with fighting for a wild card.. 

[crazycolt1]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

But that's what they likely said about Mahomes, Wilson, Prescott, and Jackson too. And they are the top 4 in QBR right now, and 3 of those have very good shots at a SB this year.

I understand your point but none of those four were considered #1 overall pick in the draft.

I am sure Ballard is going to draft a QB but personally I don't think it will be in the first round. 

Hell, Brady was a 6th round pick so one never knows what history tells. 

 

[Colts_Fan12]

10 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

But that's what they likely said about Mahomes, Wilson, Prescott, and Jackson too. And they are the top 4 in QBR right now, and 3 of those have very good shots at a SB this year.

one is also MVP last year and another will be this year. I love when people say there isnt anyone good in a draft like they have any idea

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

no one is being mean because of luck or because they hate JB they are upset cause the guy has been average as hell and hasn't improved like at all since college lol

 

Yup, all you have to do is watch the games, look at the stats, and review the film. If JB had improved his TTT, progression, or vision throughout the year, I'd have a very different outlook. All the film of open pass catchers is pretty damning too.

 

I do agree with @BleedBlue4Shoe86 though that some come off as just mean. I think some should ratchet down their descriptors and limit their criticisms to stat/fact based dialog. At the same time though, the JB cheerleaders need to limit their anecdotal stuff too and not deflect away from the metrics and film.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

 

Yup, all you have to do is watch the games, look at the stats, and review the film. If JB had improved his TTT, progression, or vision throughout the year, I'd have a very different outlook. All the film of open pass catchers is pretty damning too.

 

I do agree with @BleedBlue4Shoe86 though that some come off as just mean. I think some should ratchet down their descriptors and limit their criticisms to stat/fact based dialog. At the same time though, the JB cheerleaders need to limit their anecdotal stuff too and not deflect away from the metrics and film.

that is honestly what I find most annoying is the sunshine pumpers no matter what evidence you bring up they will find excuses out the * it's so annoying

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I understand your point but none of those four were considered #1 overall pick in the draft.

I am sure Ballard is going to draft a QB but personally I don't think it will be in the first round. 

Hell, Brady was a 6th round pick so one never knows what history tells. 

 

That was my point. For instance, a guy like Love might end up being the best out of the crop. You don't always need to mortgage your future and go #1 to get a top 5 guy. The four I mentioned are currently the top 4 in the league, and were seen as tier 2 or 3 guys during the draft. 

 

If Tua, Love, or Herbert are available at our 1R pick, I think he goes QB. I could see him moving up a little (not selling the farm) to get a guy too. I doubt he goes later for a game manager type guy. IMO, he'll be more inclined to take a little risk for higher ceiling guy.

 

 

[crazycolt1]

8 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

that is honestly what I find most annoying is the sunshine pumpers no matter what evidence you bring up they will find excuses out the * it's so annoying

Same thing can be said about the negative nancy's when facts are brought up too. 

Things like injuries and things out of the QB hands. 

Maybe  it's just as annoying on the other side? 

Just because you don't share the same opinions does not automatically make you right. 

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

that is honestly what I find most annoying is the sunshine pumpers no matter what evidence you bring up they will find excuses out the * it's so annoying

Given all the film and stats, it's much harder for the sunshine pumpers to deflect. The injury argument is fair to an extent, but doesn't erase the bad pre-injury performances, or detract from the film showing multiple pass catchers (who are filling in for injured players) running wide open. No situation is ever perfect when trying to evaluate someone. 

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Same thing can be said about the negative nancy's when facts are brought up too. 

Things like injuries and things out of the QB hands. 

Maybe  it's just as annoying on the other side? 

Like I said above, the injury argument is fair, but only to an extent. The pre-injury bad performances don't go away. They are still there, and still bad. And post injury film where non-injured starters (like Doyle) and fill-ins are running wide open can't be deflected. 

[MPStack]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I doubt he goes later for a game manager type guy. IMO, he'll be more inclined to take a little risk for higher ceiling guy.

 

 

 

Agreed! There’s no way to spin it, when a upgrade is needed at QB. GMs don’t go looking for the franchise in Rd 2. 
 

 

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Like I said above, the injury argument is fair, but only to an extent. The pre-injury bad performances don't go away. They are still there, and still bad. And post injury film where non-injured starters (like Doyle) and fill-ins are running wide open can't be deflected. 

Are you 100% sure those receivers were running the correct routes? Are you sure Brissett can trust those receivers? 

Like I said, we are fans, that's all.

Some of us like to think we are more knowledgeable than other fans but we don't have the information a GM an HC or a coordinator has. 

I find it funny that TY, Doyle and the receivers that Brissett was used to throw to don't have a problem catching passes from Brissett.  Just saying.

 

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Are you 100% sure those receivers were running the correct routes? Are you sure Brissett can trust those receivers? 

Like I said, we are fans, that's all.

Some of us like to think we are more knowledgeable than other fans but we don't have the information a GM an HC or a coordinator has. 

I find it funny that TY, Doyle and the receivers that Brissett was used to throw to don't have a problem catching passes from Brissett.  Just saying.

 

Doyle was one of those guys, along with Pascal running wide open in the latest group of all22s. I'm pretty sure they know their routes... And look, JB's had that same issue since college. Let's not pretend it just started this year with injury.

 

On the topic of TY and others not having a problem... TY's numbers have been in regression since the start of the year. He's also had almost the same amount of drops as last year in half the games. The only pass catcher that hasn't regressed is Pascal. 

[Fisticuffs111]

8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Doyle was one of those guys, along with Pascal running wide open in the latest group of all22s. I'm pretty sure they know their routes... And look, JB's had that same issue since college. Let's not pretend it just started this year with injury.

 

On the topic of TY and others not having a problem... TY's numbers have been in regression since the start of the year. He's also had almost the same amount of drops as last year in half the games. The only pass catcher that hasn't regressed is Pascal. 

 

Yeah, it’s hard to spin missing open receivers consistently in JB’s favor. Really, I have trouble blaming the WR/TE’s too much at all. I think back to that telling quote from Sirianni where he stuck up for the WR’s.

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Doyle was one of those guys, along with Pascal running wide open in the latest group of all22s. I'm pretty sure they know their routes... And look, JB's had that same issue since college. Let's not pretend it just started this year with injury.

 

On the topic of TY and others not having a problem... TY's numbers have been in regression since the start of the year. He's also had almost the same amount of drops as last year in half the games. The only pass catcher that hasn't regressed is Pascal. 

But yet there are games when Frank opened up the offense where Brissett threw for a bunch of yards. 

I think the QBs trust of his receivers is the biggest obstacle to overcome. 

I totally agree that Brisssett is not an elite QB but he is not near as bad as advertised in this forum. 

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

But yet there are games when Frank opened up the offense where Brissett threw for a bunch of yards. 

I think the QBs trust of his receivers is the biggest obstacle to overcome. 

I totally agree that Brisssett is not an elite QB but he is not near as bad as advertised in this forum. 

The problem goes back to struggling with progressions. He's decent if his 1st read is open. If not, he really struggles. He also has tried to force it way too much to TY (1st read) when he was doubled. He also struggles in general when his first read is in the seam or long. Any WR or TE running vertically in the seam +5 yards has been virtually invisible all year. Rogers, who ran a lot of vertical seam clear outs (for Z or X drags), was open a ton and never got a look.

 

Sure trust is an issue, but that doesn't explain missing his guys like Doyle or Pascal. It's also hard to defend when the new guys are wide open. I can understand timing routes and things like back shoulders, but when guys are streaking across the middle or running vertically wide open, trust is limited to will the guy catch the ball, not will he make the right break. If anything, that's a QB not trusting himself.

[stitches]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

There is not a Manning or a Luck in this up coming draft so Irsay will let the drafting crew do their job. 

 

There is not a Manning or a Luck in most drafts. That doesn't mean there isn't good QB talent available that through cultivation and development can't become a great QB in the league.