Are the Colts starting to crumble?

[Four2itus]

Just now, Thunderbolt said:

They are I am done. Time to stick a fork. Good old saying, "wait till next year again".

Fixed it for you. 

[coltsfeva]

 If Funchess gets on the field,,he can give you a lot of what Ebron gives you, with less drops. 
 

Funchess + Cox > Ebron 

[coltfaninnewyork]

39 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

 

 

Well, I am going to watch all the games, and enjoy every one. Sorry that the teams fortunes affect you that way.

Bro I'm not really suicidal ,I was trying to make light of it.however I take the losses hard .

[Thunderbolt]

Thanks Four2itus.

[John Waylon]

There is definitely something weird going on here. The stories the two sides are telling just don’t add up. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

After the Colts win Sunday, the new thread will read - 'Are the Colts starting to roll'  . 

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

After the Colts win Sunday, the new thread will read - 'Are the Colts starting to roll'  . 

mood swings brought on by pain.

perhaps the fan base needs to be medicated.

 

Swagioids might help with the pain. Might also have very bad side effects for a few.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

mood swings brought on by pain.

perhaps the fan base needs to be medicated.

 

Swagioids might help with the pain. Might also have very bad side effects for a few.

It's week to week, always has been like that in here. That is why I make comments like - winning is everything. It seems like winning cures everything and when we lose some in here are just doom and gloom.

[masters1]

Stephen Holder was talking about it on Q&S tonight. Said Ebron hasn't been missing any practices, he played in games and mgt wasn't aware of any major issues with his health. His read on the situation is that Colts mgt is not very happy with Ebron at this point and that any chance of him re-signing with the team are probably gone at this point.

 

I've never been a big fan of Ebron. He doesn't block and drops a lot of passes. Wonder if my boss will let me "shut it down" for the rest of the year and still pay me?

 

 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It's week to week, always has been like that in here. That is why I make comments like - winning is everything. It seems like winning cures everything and when we lose some in here are just doom and gloom.

The winning is everything mantra is just the opposite pole of the losing is everything mantra. 

Both make objectivity rather hard lol. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

The winning is everything mantra is just the opposite pole of the losing is everything mantra. 

Both make objectivity rather hard lol. 

After last Thursday had we won I would've still been critical of JB but would've been happy we at least won. Losing that game stung. 

[Fisticuffs111]

32 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

After the Colts win Sunday, the new thread will read - 'Are the Colts starting to roll'  . 

 

Yeah, it’s like after the Jags game when people were back on that post Chiefs game high talking about being able to compete because of our elite run game...only to lose to the Texans while rushing for 175 yards.

 

Can’t get to high after wins or too low after losses. Unless that high is a SB victory.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Yeah, it’s like after the Jags game when people were back on that post Chiefs game high talking about being able to compete because of our elite run game...only to lose to the Texans while rushing for 175 yards.

 

Can’t get to high after wins or too low after losses. Unless that high is a SB victory.

A great example of some people being critical of our team and just going over board with it was after we lost to KC in the playoffs. I wasn't happy about it but I am like we just made the divisional round and won 10 of 11 games before that loss. Some people were all over Luck, I bet now those same people wish he was back.

[Fisticuffs111]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

A great example of some people being critical of our team and just going over board with it was after we lost to KC in the playoffs. I wasn't happy about it but I am like we just made the divisional round and won 10 of 11 games before that loss. Some people were all over Luck, I bet now those same people wish he was back.

 

Hah yeah, I still remember having that nagging thought that Luck would always struggle in bad weather games after that one. Although, now we know he was possibly dealing with the calf injury during that game IIRC.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, masters1 said:

Stephen Holder was talking about it on Q&S tonight. Said Ebron hasn't been missing any practices, he played in games and mgt wasn't aware of any major issues with his health. His read on the situation is that Colts mgt is not very happy with Ebron at this point and that any chance of him re-signing with the team are probably gone at this point.

 

I've never been a big fan of Ebron. He doesn't block and drops a lot of passes. Wonder if my boss will let me "shut it down" for the rest of the year and still pay me

 

I've never been a huge fan of Ebron, but....

 

1. It's documented that he had pre-season ankle issues, and was on the injury report at least once or twice this season (pretty sure a few weeks ago for "ankle"). So the phantom injury stuff is less than credible to me. If he needs two procedures, it's hard to act like it wasn't that serious. Many wanted to give Luck a pass for leaving due to pain/rehab, but now want to roll EE under the bus for not wanting to play through pain?

 

2. He's always had issue with core/body drops, so why is anyone surprised when it happens. It happened last year too. People just didn't care as much because we used him successfully so much in the RZ. Also, TY has almost drops in half the season that he did all year in 2018. Does TY need glasses, or perhaps the pass quality has diminished.

 

3. He's seen his role (avg snaps and targets) decrease while the passing O has struggled mightily. He was Luck's go too a lot last year in critical situations, and this year he's an afterthought. While we used him brilliantly in 2018, not so much in 2019. It's hard to blame the guy for being frustrated. I'm sure most of the WRs and TEs are frustrated with the passing game. Almost everyone has seen their targets and production decrease.

 

4. He was honest that he came here because he wanted to get passes from AL. AL is gone. Maybe he wants to go somewhere now with a high quality passer? He has ranted many times about his love for Indy. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Hah yeah, I still remember having that nagging thought that Luck would always struggle in bad weather games after that one. Although, now we know he was possibly dealing with the calf injury during that game IIRC.

His shoulder may have been bothering him as well. I have no proof of that but maybe it was. We actually had a fun season last season and were good overall. Winning at Houston in the playoffs was a big win for our franchise.

[EastStreet]

28 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

After last Thursday had we won I would've still been critical of JB but would've been happy we at least won. Losing that game stung. 

Losing always stings. Winning always feels good. There's almost always good and bad individual or unit play in both. Personally, I'm both critical and positive about different things regardless of outcome.

[masters1]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I've never been a huge fan of Ebron, but....

 

1. It's documented that he had pre-season ankle issues, and was on the injury report at least once or twice this season (pretty sure a few weeks ago for "ankle"). So the phantom injury stuff is less than credible to me. If he needs two procedures, it's hard to act like it wasn't that serious. Many wanted to give Luck a pass for leaving due to pain/rehab, but now want to roll EE under the bus for not wanting to play through pain?

 

2. He's always had issue with core/body drops, so why is anyone surprised when it happens. It happened last year too. People just didn't care as much because we used him successfully so much in the RZ. Also, TY has almost drops in half the season that he did all year in 2018. Does TY need glasses, or perhaps the pass quality has diminished.

 

3. He's seen his role (avg snaps and targets) decrease while the passing O has struggled mightily. He was Luck's go too a lot last year in critical situations, and this year he's an afterthought. While we used him brilliantly in 2018, not so much in 2019. It's hard to blame the guy for being frustrated. I'm sure most of the WRs and TEs are frustrated with the passing game. Almost everyone has seen their targets and production decrease.

 

4. He was honest that he came here because he wanted to get passes from AL. AL is gone. Maybe he wants to go somewhere now with a high quality passer? He has ranted many times about his love for Indy. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out.

Based on what was reported by a guy that covers the Colts every day, Reich and Colts mgt disagree with you.

[hoosierhawk]

48 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

mood swings brought on by pain.

perhaps the fan base needs to be medicated.

 

Swagioids might help with the pain. Might also have very bad side effects for a few.

Scotch works better for me.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, hoosierhawk said:

Scotch works better for me.

If we lose Sunday I may need 2 or 3 Scotch's  

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, masters1 said:

Based on what was reported by a guy that covers the Colts every day, Reich and Colts mgt disagree with you.

What specifically? It's documented he had treatments and scans in preseason. He's on the injury report week 9 for "ankle" and was a DNP. They may have been surprised by the seriousness, but they were not surprised he had an issue. 

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If we lose Sunday I may need 2 or 3 Scotch's  

You should have 2 or 3 anyway. 

[EastStreet]

11 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Scotch works better for me.

I'd like both Swag and Scotch. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

What specifically? It's documented he had treatments and scans in preseason. He's on the injury report week 9 for "ankle" and was a DNP. They may have been surprised by the seriousness, but they were not surprised he had an issue. 

You should have 2 or 3 anyway. 

I am actually more of a Crown Royal drinker when it comes to the hard stuff, Jim Beam isn't bad either. Beer is easier on the body the next day though  

[Fisticuffs111]

17 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

What specifically? It's documented he had treatments and scans in preseason. He's on the injury report week 9 for "ankle" and was a DNP. They may have been surprised by the seriousness, but they were not surprised he had an issue. 

 

Yup. From what we know, from what is documented, it’s hard to really blame Ebron for his decision.

 

From what info we’ve seen so far, it seems like the Colts argument is that it wasn’t serious enough to have surgery this soon/go on IR. But even then, it’s his future (not to mention his body), and personally I don’t blame him for not wanting to play hurt and possibly risk further injury for a team that very likely wasn’t going to re-sign him. Especially since, like you alluded to, this wasn’t a good situation for him in general with AL retiring. So, I guess if people wanna call him selfish so be it, but I really don’t blame him.

[coltsfan_canada]

You can't crumble the pancakes Nelson is cooking.

[hoosierhawk]

22 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I've never been a huge fan of Ebron, but....

 

1. It's documented that he had pre-season ankle issues, and was on the injury report at least once or twice this season (pretty sure a few weeks ago for "ankle"). So the phantom injury stuff is less than credible to me. If he needs two procedures, it's hard to act like it wasn't that serious. Many wanted to give Luck a pass for leaving due to pain/rehab, but now want to roll EE under the bus for not wanting to play through pain?

 

It was reported that he had a check up on his ankle in preseason and it was determine to not be serious enough to hinder his play. He practiced and played without any problems or complains till either before or after week 9. It was either before or after week 10 I believe that he went to the press and complained about lack of playing time and targets. Gathered that did not settle well with Reich or front office as he kind of threw Reich under the bus. Didn't mention then that he was playing with excruciating pain in his ankle but wanted more playing time. Reich said they were unaware he was experiencing real problems. I would suspect the training staff would have been aware if he was getting treated and Reich would have been notified. Someone isn't being truthful.

As for Andrew getting a pass, he retired from football altogether. He did not put himself on IR (Reich's words). If EE hangs up his cleats next year I then will agree he gets a pass.

 

 

[EastStreet]

30 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am actually more of a Crown Royal drinker when it comes to the hard stuff, Jim Beam isn't bad either. Beer is easier on the body the next day though  

I love Crown too. C and Coke, or C and 7up with a big twist of lime.

I've had plenty Beam in my day too. It was my college go to many years ago.

Stick to mostly beer and a good red wine these days, but not even much of that. 

I will enjoy some beers though during night games.

[EastStreet]

24 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Yup. From what we know, from what is documented, it’s hard to really blame Ebron for his decision.

 

From what info we’ve seen so far, it seems like the Colts argument is that it wasn’t serious enough to have surgery this soon/go on IR. But even then, it’s his future (not to mention his body), and personally I don’t blame him for not wanting to play hurt and possibly risk further injury for a team that very likely wasn’t going to re-sign him. Especially since, like you alluded to, this wasn’t a good situation for him in general with AL retiring. So, I guess if people wanna call him selfish so be it, but I really don’t blame him.

Yup. His contract was up at the end of the year, and I don't blame him one bit. If he were under contract for another year, then I might be a little irritated. 

[The Fish]

"Are the Colts starting to crumble?".

 

No. They're starting to get good in the big picture.

Do we all have enough recall to remember this guy named Ryan Grigson and the years of him hitting on hardly any draft picks at all? There's a reason why the Colts have so much cap and it's because Grigson couldn't pick em'. So we're a few years into Ballard's plan and the team was just starting to turn a corner. They run the ball, they stop the run and they're consistently doing that against good teams. That's night and day compared to what had been going on. 

I don't think this team is bad at all. I think it's a young team that had a hard to quantify retirement reshuffle the deck on where the team is in it's construction. I think Ballard will get this right, but who knows ultimately? Luck's choice really did change the whole deal*. 

 

 

*If I didn't follow the Colts and I was to make a generic projection on having a QB of Luck's caliber just up and retire, I'd say it's a 3 to 5 year set back... I haven't gone there mentally yet with this team, but... that could be the outcome.  

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

It was reported that he had a check up on his ankle in preseason and it was determine to not be serious enough to hinder his play. He practiced and played without any problems or complains till either before or after week 9. It was either before or after week 10 I believe that he went to the press and complained about lack of playing time and targets. Gathered that did not settle well with Reich or front office as he kind of threw Reich under the bus. Didn't mention then that he was playing with excruciating pain in his ankle but wanted more playing time. Reich said they were unaware he was experiencing real problems. I would suspect the training staff would have been aware if he was getting treated and Reich would have been notified. Someone isn't being truthful.

As for Andrew getting a pass, he retired from football altogether. He did not put himself on IR (Reich's words). If EE hangs up his cleats next year I then will agree he gets a pass.

 

Luck put himself on retirement with years left on his contract... 

I'm sure the trainers were wrapping and treating his ankle. If they weren't, then OK, but there's enough out there to not make this a grand conspiracy theory out of it. He's in a contract year and the Colts didn't extend him. Given his reduced role, if I were him I'd do whatever I could to put myself in the best position going into FA. It's a business. 

[Defjamz26]

The Colts are not crumbling. It’s just that the QB position has taken a huge step back and there are still some depth and talent issues at certain Positions. In the past, the QB was so exceptional that he was able to mask some of those flaws, but that is no longer the case.

[hoosierhawk]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

 

Luck put himself on retirement with years left on his contract... 

I'm sure the trainers were wrapping and treating his ankle. If they weren't, then OK, but there's enough out there to not make this a grand conspiracy theory out of it. He's in a contract year and the Colts didn't extend him. Given his reduced role, if I were him I'd do whatever I could to put myself in the best position going into FA. It's a business. 

I agree that that is his motivation. At least Luck didn't make excuses, he flat out quit. Some take exception to this. Having two new knees, spinal fusion and some arthritic joints I empathize with Andrew. 

[shasta519]

39 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

It was reported that he had a check up on his ankle in preseason and it was determine to not be serious enough to hinder his play. He practiced and played without any problems or complains till either before or after week 9. It was either before or after week 10 I believe that he went to the press and complained about lack of playing time and targets. Gathered that did not settle well with Reich or front office as he kind of threw Reich under the bus. Didn't mention then that he was playing with excruciating pain in his ankle but wanted more playing time. Reich said they were unaware he was experiencing real problems. I would suspect the training staff would have been aware if he was getting treated and Reich would have been notified. Someone isn't being truthful.

As for Andrew getting a pass, he retired from football altogether. He did not put himself on IR (Reich's words). If EE hangs up his cleats next year I then will agree he gets a pass.

 

 

 

Excellent summary. For a guy dealing with ankle issues all year...he was very quick to complain about being involved more. 

 

I will say...back in April...Ebron did have some type of procedure. We don't know what that was...but it could be related. However, it didn't seem (to us) to affect him until now.

 

Also this offseason...I heard a rumor that Ebron was thinking about holding out before the season to secure a big new deal. I have no idea if that is true (however...those little one-off rumors that don't get picked up sometimes do have a way of being true)...but putting himself on IR like this would certainly track with that.

 

Over on Stampede Blue (they love Ebron)...back in January they had an article about giving Ebron an extension this past offseason...and 75% voted for it. It was a bad idea then...and it would look pretty awful now.  

[EastStreet]

21 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

I agree that that is his motivation. At least Luck didn't make excuses, he flat out quit. Some take exception to this. Having two new knees, spinal fusion and some arthritic joints I empathize with Andrew. 

You don't think Ebron is at risked for being hobbled and bouncing around on bad ankles post football?

 

Luck was born into wealth, made $110M, will inherit a ton, and has an incredible fallback plan. His kids and grand kids will all be rich. Ebron had a rough childhood, struggled in school, and has only made 20M. Not saying "poor Ebron" or anything, but he's not near as close to being "set up" for life like Luck. He's got limited time left, less than a QB's life span, so I'm sure he's focused on maximizing every year left. 

 

Like I said, not a big Ebron fan at all, but don't blame him.

[shasta519]

40 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Luck put himself on retirement with years left on his contract... 

I'm sure the trainers were wrapping and treating his ankle. If they weren't, then OK, but there's enough out there to not make this a grand conspiracy theory out of it. He's in a contract year and the Colts didn't extend him. Given his reduced role, if I were him I'd do whatever I could to put myself in the best position going into FA. It's a business. 

 

He is in a contract year...but it's the contract year of a two-year $15M FA contract he (willingly) signed with the Colts...after essentially being a 1st round bust with DET. Personally, I don't know why there would be some expectation of getting a big new deal after ONE year with a new team...when you are still under contract. It's certainly not the norm.

 

And it's not like the Colts didn't have a huge hand in building his value back up...so I don't really think they owe him anything.

 

That just seems like a pretty slippery slope...when we talk about contract years for players. This isn't some guy on a cheap rookie deal his predecessors negotiated...he was a FA and accepeted the best deal he could get...and what comes with that.

 

But I can understand if he is making a business decision (which it does appear could be the base)...and I never fault NFL players for looking out for themselves...but in Ebron's case...I also won't defend him from any of the blowback that would come with making that type of decision...especially in season. 

 

As for this season...Luck leaving obviously impacted everybody...and Ebron does have less of a role and less production (for reasons that have been beaten to death...though there are still those who won't accept realities).

 

But...it's not like he has maximized his chances. He still drops passes at an alarming rate...and after complaining to the media...and having Reich cowtow to him...he went out and had a terrible game against one of the worst teams in the NFL. 

 

I just think the Ebron era is over now...and I will remember 2018 fondly...but I also am fine if I don't have to ever talk about him again.

[ojsglove]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

You don't think Ebron is at risked for being hobbled and bouncing around on bad ankles post football?

 

Luck was born into wealth, made $110M, will inherit a ton, and has an incredible fallback plan. His kids and grand kids will all be rich. Ebron had a rough childhood, struggled in school, and has only made 20M. Not saying "poor Ebron" or anything, but he's not near as close to being "set up" for life like Luck. He's got limited time left, less than a QB's life span, so I'm sure he's focused on maximizing every year left. 

 

Like I said, not a big Ebron fan at all, but don't blame him.

 

Only $20 mil?  OMG!! How can he survive on that??  When he has to decide between paying for food, paying for medicine, or keeping the electric turned on, you can justify that post, otherwise, i'm a little disappointed where this is heading. 

[Patrick Miller]

Any chance the ankle surgery is baloney?

[Yoshinator]

This team is ruined for the future if we keep Brissett. Look at the loaded AFC and their QBs. Lamar Jackson, Mahomes, and Watson as a top young tier. Darnold, Josh Allen, Mayfield, and Minshew as a young middle tier. Then Rivers, Brady, and a revitalizated Tannehill as solid veteran guys. We don't even have a top 10 QB in the AFC. We have the worst QB in the division no matter who the Jags start. We also have plenty of holes on the rest of the team. Luck set us back 3 years and unless we draft a new QB, we will be an 8-8 team at best now that the league has figured Brissett out. Can't hide behind the run game forever.

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

He is in a contract year...but it's the contract year of a two-year $15M FA contract he (willingly) signed with the Colts...after essentially being a 1st round bust with DET. Personally, I don't know why there would be some expectation of getting a big new deal after ONE year with a new team...when you are still under contract. It's certainly not the norm.

 

And it's not like the Colts didn't have a huge hand in building his value back up...so I don't really think they owe him anything.

 

That just seems like a pretty slippery slope...when we talk about contract years for players. This isn't some guy on a cheap rookie deal his predecessors negotiated...he was a FA and accepeted the best deal he could get...and what comes with that.

 

But I can understand if he is making a business decision (which it does appear could be the base)...and I never fault NFL players for looking out for themselves...but in Ebron's case...I also won't defend him from any of the blowback that would come with making that type of decision...especially in season. 

 

As for this season...Luck leaving obviously impacted everybody...and Ebron does have less of a role and less production (for reasons that have been beaten to death...though there are still those who won't accept realities).

 

But...it's not like he has maximized his chances. He still drops passes at an alarming rate...and after complaining to the media...and having Reich cowtow to him...he went out and had a terrible game against one of the worst teams in the NFL. 

 

I just think the Ebron era is over now...and I will remember 2018 fondly...but I also am fine if I don't have to ever talk about him again.

I'm not feeling bad for Ebron or the FO. Just business. I don't feel bad for Luck either.

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, ojsglove said:

 

Only $20 mil?  OMG!! How can he survive on that??  When he has to decide between paying for food, paying for medicine, or keeping the electric turned on, you can justify that post, otherwise, i'm a little disappointed where this is heading. 

As I said, not trying to be "poor Ebron". He's trying to maximize his worth. People want to give Luck a pass, while he made 5x that, was born with a silver spoon, and didn't have to play FB in the first place to end up rich. Ebron has more to lose than Luck, even though Luck's contract was far more than any of Ebron's.