How a Real GM Trades

[Scott Pennock]

This is a cold, calculated and non-emotional trade. Evan Boehm was a JAG that we robbed from a PS last year that Ballard turned into at the very least a top of the 7th Round or a top of the 6th Round pick.

 

Why did I word it that way, because the very same team absolutely fleeced the non-GM having Texans and used the emotions of the Coach to make a trade for a young (and possibly ascending) LT andca disgruntled WR who has displayed a poor attitude on and off the field as far back as Oklahoma....

 

The Dolphins have sold their soul this year BUT have a boatload of picks over the next two drafts to build themselves back up.

 

Back on point though, at the rate that our front office hits on picks, even 6th and 7th rounders have a chance to contribute, plus those picks could also be used to maneuver around on draft day for some higher purpose!

[Smonroe]

Totally agree with you on Ballard.  But a very good LT in this league is a rare commodity.  

 

The Texans figure they’ll be drafting too high to get a sure thing, so they rolled the dice.  You can’t blame them for selling out to protect their franchise QB.  If Grigson would have done something similar...

[MikeCurtis]

TWO 1st round picks, AND a 2nd

 

Thats a BUNCH to give up for non-pro bowl LT

 

Clooney was an above average pass rusher, but played the run

in an amazing way

 

 

They were fleeced.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scott Pennock]

27 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

Totally agree with you on Ballard.  But a very good LT in this league is a rare commodity.  

 

The Texans figure they’ll be drafting too high to get a sure thing, so they rolled the dice.  You can’t blame them for selling out to protect their franchise QB.  If Grigson would have done something similar...

Agreed. But for 2 first rounders and a 2nd they could have gotten better. Had Grigson done this trade I would say the same thing, but he already had a good LT that he inherited from Polian. It was the rest of the line he did nothing about.

 

I didn't even mention giving away Clowney earlier in the day.

[LockeDown]

you know you’re bad when the Dolphins take advantage of you.

[Stephen]

Texans fixed oline

[Archer]

51 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Joel is a little hard to follow here.  I take it that as long as Miami's pick is better than ours, it's just a swap of 7ths.  However, if we tank and get a better pick than Miami (hopefully about a 0.001% chance of this), we get their 6th and they get our 7th...

[Smonroe]

39 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Agreed. But for 2 first rounders and a 2nd they could have gotten better. Had Grigson done this trade I would say the same thing, but he already had a good LT that he inherited from Polian. It was the rest of the line he did nothing about.

 

I didn't even mention giving away Clowney earlier in the day.

 

I get your point, but it's a "bird in the hand" thing.  They'd go another year with a bad O-line and who knows what that means to Watson's health in the long run.

 

If you're saying they could have gotten more (maybe a starting LT and another O lineman) for those two picks, then we'll never know.  Who was going to trade away their best O linemen?

 

They were forced into the Clowney trade, trying to get anything for him.  I'm not defending the Texans front office (if they even have one), but I can see their side.

[Cynjin]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

Totally agree with you on Ballard.  But a very good LT in this league is a rare commodity.  

 

The Texans figure they’ll be drafting too high to get a sure thing, so they rolled the dice.  You can’t blame them for selling out to protect their franchise QB.  If Grigson would have done something similar...

 

They had a really good LT in Brown.  Wouldn't it have been better to have paid Brown and not needed to send all that draft capital to the Dolphins?

[VaAllDay757]

28 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Texans fixed oline

Naw they still have problems on that line

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

Totally agree with you on Ballard.  But a very good LT in this league is a rare commodity.  

 

The Texans figure they’ll be drafting too high to get a sure thing, so they rolled the dice.  You can’t blame them for selling out to protect their franchise QB.  If Grigson would have done something similar...

Tunsil isn't that good though very overrated in fact Texans are turning into the browns.

[Peterk2011]

1 hour ago, Smonroe said:

The Texans figure they’ll be drafting too high to get a sure thing, so they rolled the dice.  You can’t blame them for selling out to protect their franchise QB.  If Grigson would have done something similar...

 

Well, I can. And I certainly do.

 

Why didn't they think about protecting their QB in march? Or why did they let themselves fooled by Philly who stole the guys they were going to pick in from of their eyes. Then picked a 3rd round worthy guy in the 1st round. This was a desperation move, and a desperation move is almost always a bad thing. This costed them more than a fortune, and does not guarantees that they pass blocking will be fixed at all. An LT alone won't fix that oline.

 

Not to mention the Clowney trade. Jesus Christ, out of the 365 days of the calendar, they selected the one day when Clowney stock price is the lowest. Then they gave him to the Hawks for a 3rd round pick. A 3rd round pick, which they would anyway get next year (as compensatory pick), if they just sit on their own *, let Clowney play his year out, then let him go and sign elsewehere.

[MikeCurtis]

16 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Tunsil isn't that good though very overrated in fact Texans are turning into the browns.

The Texan fans are melting down over the second trade

 

Tunsil is a decent LT with upside...... upside that he may show, or may NEVER show

 

As compared..... they gave up MORE for Tunsil, than Chicago gave up for K. Mack.......

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

15 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Then they gave him to the Hawks for a 3rd round pick. A 3rd round pick, which they would anyway get next year (as compensatory pick), if they just sit on their own *, let Clowney play his year out, then let him go and sign elsewehere.

Awesome point

[BleedBlu8792]

2 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Awesome point

Seattle is basically renting Clowney's services, for a year, for ~8M due to Houston agreeing to pay the other half in the trade. Seattle just won in every way possible with that trade. 

[aaron11]

4 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

Seattle is basically renting Clowney's services, for a year, for ~8M due to Houston agreeing to pay the other half in the trade. Seattle just won in every way possible with that trade. 

that seems to be the consensus but i dont agree.  texans didnt want to pay him and got something out of him before he left in free agency.  you cant get a comparable talent when he only has one year on his contract and wants to be overpaid next season 

 

i would not want him at the price hes looking for, texans did alright here imo 

[shasta519]

26 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

Well, I can. And I certainly do.

 

Why didn't they think about protecting their QB in march? Or why did they let themselves fooled by Philly who stole the guys they were going to pick in from of their eyes. Then picked a 3rd round worthy guy in the 1st round. This was a desperation move, and a desperation move is almost always a bad thing. This costed them more than a fortune, and does not guarantees that they pass blocking will be fixed at all. An LT alone won't fix that oline.

 

Not to mention the Clowney trade. Jesus Christ, out of the 365 days of the calendar, they selected the one day when Clowney stock price is the lowest. Then they gave him to the Hawks for a 3rd round pick. A 3rd round pick, which they would anyway get next year (as compensatory pick), if they just sit on their own *, let Clowney play his year out, then let him go and sign elsewehere.

 

Clowney wouldn’t sign his tender...there was no letting him play out the season. He wanted out it appears...and I can understand why...BOB is a turd.

 

But there’s no guarantee they would have gotten a 3rd round comp pick anyways...if they used the Clowney cap savings elsewhere in FA. Plus, that pick would have been in 2021...not next year...and the general rule of thumb is that a pick the following year is worth a round later. 

 

Always better to take the immediate value in a scenario like this. 

[shasta519]

Would have loved if this GM could have pulled off that trade for Clowney. 

[waka waka]

3 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

Would have loved if this GM could have pulled off that trade for Clowney. 

Clowney will be a FA next season. We have a ton of cap space i'd take him over Sheard can't have enough edge rushers it should be an intresting offseason yet again.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

This is a cold, calculated and non-emotional trade. Evan Boehm was a JAG that we robbed from a PS last year that Ballard turned into at the very least a top of the 7th Round or a top of the 6th Round pick.

 

Why did I word it that way, because the very same team absolutely fleeced the non-GM having Texans and used the emotions of the Coach to make a trade for a young (and possibly ascending) LT andca disgruntled WR who has displayed a poor attitude on and off the field as far back as Oklahoma....

 

The Dolphins have sold their soul this year BUT have a boatload of picks over the next two drafts to build themselves back up.

 

Back on point though, at the rate that our front office hits on picks, even 6th and 7th rounders have a chance to contribute, plus those picks could also be used to maneuver around on draft day for some higher purpose!

 

I mean...it’s a swap of 7th round picks...not an extra pick. Boehm was solid depth at C. Hopefully Kelly can stay healthy this year.

[Scott Pennock]

1 hour ago, Archer said:

Joel is a little hard to follow here.  I take it that as long as Miami's pick is better than ours, it's just a swap of 7ths.  However, if we tank and get a better pick than Miami (hopefully about a 0.001% chance of this), we get their 6th and they get our 7th...

Yessir we get the higher of the 7th rounder based on record. If they somehow have a better record then we get their 6th. At least that's how I interpreted it. I'm sure after the dust settles CB will have a press conference to further explain all the moves.

[shasta519]

Just now, waka waka said:

Clowney will be a FA next season. We have a ton of cap space i'd take him over Sheard can't have enough edge rushers it should be an intresting offseason yet again.

 

I hope you are right. No idea if they would have even traded him to the Colts...I just would have loved to get him this year and had a chance to lock him up early if he performed well...and  it would not have affected their comp picks. I would have gladly dealt a future 3rd.

 

Of course, Luck’s retirement has thrown a big wrench in the win-now approach.

 

I still contend he’s a perfect fit for this team...and hopefully a priority this offseason.

[waka waka]

Just now, shastamasta said:

 

I hope you are right. No idea if they would have even traded him to the Colts...I just would have loved to get him this year and had a chance to lock him up early if he performed well...and  it would not have affected their comp picks. I would have gladly dealt a future 3rd.

 

Of course, Luck’s retirement has thrown a big wrench in the win-now approach.

 

I still contend he’s a perfect fit for this team...and hopefully a priority this offseason.

any team with a plan for him is going to use him well he's more of a OLB/DE seeing him with some of the other young talent we have on DEF would be nice. I like Clowney he can play inside and out has ton of movement ability you just need a plan for him.

[w87r]

2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

TWO 1st round picks, AND a 2nd

 

Thats a BUNCH to give up for non-pro bowl LT

 

Clooney was an above average pass rusher, but played the run

in an amazing way

 

 

They were fleeced.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Saw this morning that Texans are paying $7m off Clowney's contract too 

[PrincetonTiger]

The Texans gave up skill position capital for a LT and 2nd Contract WR

[austriancolt]

I don't see the mastermind behind that trade. We probably get a higher pick for sure but it's not like our 6 or 7 rounder the last years made a huge impact.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Tunsil isn't that good though very overrated in fact Texans are turning into the browns.

From people who know football, they disagree with your assessment of Tunsil.  They rate him as the best young LT who is ascending towards being elite.

[Peterk2011]

2 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

Clowney wouldn’t sign his tender...there was no letting him play out the season. He wanted out it appears...and I can understand why...BOB is a turd.

 

Always better to take the immediate value in a scenario like this. 

 

He probably would not. Neither Frank Clark and Seattle could deal with it.

 

We can twist this as we want, but there's obviously a big-big vacancy in the Texans FO ever since the last season ended. There were rumors that there's a power battle within the organization since the owner died, and it turned out, that the GM lost the battle. Then, the - let's say the truth - the silly mistake they committed in their GM search, then the things they've been doing ever since. They gave a 4th rounder for a #3 RB just a couple of days ago. Even if he's better than a #3, 'cmon... Who gives a pick nowadays for a RB, other than Ryan Grigson?

 

I hope O'Brien will survive this season - I think he wll - then they'll acquire that new GM from the Patriots, who will lock O'Brien as Texans HC for the next decade.  (The funny thing in this is O'Brien "could be" a good HC. But his ego is too big for the job. A good HC has to be able to put his  ego aside sometimes to listen to those noices they need to listen to. O'Brien can't.)

[aaron11]

1 hour ago, austriancolt said:

I don't see the mastermind behind that trade. We probably get a higher pick for sure but it's not like our 6 or 7 rounder the last years made a huge impact.

only a few  have ever made much impact on the colts.  Bethea and Mcafee were in that range.  there were a couple others, but not many at all

[stitches]

4 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

TWO 1st round picks, AND a 2nd

 

Thats a BUNCH to give up for non-pro bowl LT

 

Clooney was an above average pass rusher, but played the run

in an amazing way

 

 

They were fleeced.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

AC is MUCH better than Tunsil. WOW! And they got a haul for him. The Texans have made a weird decision to make a ton of marquee trades while not having a GM. This is horrible process, whatever you think of the trades themselves. 

[rock8591]

Boehm is very overrated by this forum, the drop off was huge when he was in the game and not Kelly.

 

I would have preferred to move Glowinski to center, and just play Haeg or Clark at RG, which they've showed they can handle. Clark gets way more flak than he deserves. You can't find many (or any) bad highlight reels showing him get owned, unlike Austin Howard.

[Luck 4 president]

4 hours ago, rock8591 said:

Boehm is very overrated by this forum, the drop off was huge when he was in the game and not Kelly.

 

I would have preferred to move Glowinski to center, and just play Haeg or Clark at RG, which they've showed they can handle. Clark gets way more flak than he deserves. You can't find many (or any) bad highlight reels showing him get owned, unlike Austin Howard.

Ya I never understood why everyone on here loved Boehm so much. Glad we moved on from him 

[MikeCurtis]

7 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

From people who know football, they disagree with your assessment of Tunsil.  They rate him as the best young LT who is ascending towards being elite.

Elite?

 

He is a LT in middle of the pack...... at best

 

Who is 'they' ?

 

He didnt make ESPNs top 100 list

 

He didnt make PFFs top 25 list

 

PFF ranked him at 70.5 ...... Elite are +12 higher

 

You dont give up 2 firsts and a second for that level...... you just DONT

 

No pro bowls, No ALL Pro.....   

 

The draft THIS year for the Texans (1 and 2) havent worked out (they still may, but they arent making the starting lineup

 

They gave up LAST years First as part of the  Watson trade 2 years ago

 

Thats FIVE first round picks to get TWO players.......... 

 

They need a GM fast........

 

Go to the Texans Fan board...... MOST are losing it

 

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

9 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Elite?

 

He is a LT in middle of the pack...... at best

 

Who is 'they' ?

 

He didnt make ESPNs top 100 list

 

He didnt make PFFs top 25 list

 

PFF ranked him at 70.5 ...... Elite are +12 higher

 

You dont give up 2 firsts and a second for that level...... you just DONT

 

No pro bowls, No ALL Pro.....   

 

The draft THIS year for the Texans (1 and 2) havent worked out (they still may, but they arent making the starting lineup

 

They gave up LAST years First as part of the  Watson trade 2 years ago

 

Thats FIVE first round picks to get TWO players.......... 

 

They need a GM fast........

 

Go to the Texans Fan board...... MOST are losing it

 

 

 

I never said I agree with the trade.  Just analysts like Baldinger, who breaks down a lot of tape, sees him as one of the best young LT's. Remember he was rated as possibly going #1 in the draft before the infamous bong incident

[MikeCurtis]

10 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I never said I agree with the trade.  Just analysts like Baldinger, who breaks down a lot of tape, sees him as one of the best young LT's. Remember he was rated as possibly going #1 in the draft before the infamous bong incident

Im not saying he is a bad player.... like Clark....

 

He is a decent player. 

 

He will improve a disaster situation at left tackle

 

But.......   It was WAY too much to give up

 

It smacks of desperation

 

Unfortunately for the QB of the Texans that have 4 other average or below average OL as well

 

I think we learned with Luck what happens when you do that

 

 

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

47 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Im not saying he is a bad player.... like Clark....

 

He is a decent player. 

 

He will improve a disaster situation at left tackle

 

But.......   It was WAY too much to give up

 

It smacks of desperation

 

Unfortunately for the QB of the Texans that have 4 other average or below average OL as well

 

I think we learned with Luck what happens when you do that

 

 

 

 

I beleiveTexans r in a situation where they have to protect Watson.   Look back at Luck's career and how he was getting pounded.  Would we have made such a trade? They need to pay to keep Watson from pulling a Luck.  He is gettting killed behind the Texans line.  We took a guard at #6.  People on this forum said that was a reach and never draft a guard that high.  Although it didnt keep Luck from retiring, it did significantly add to him not getting hit last year.  I so think it was a lot to give up, but they say LT's r right up their with qbs and rush ends in terms of value to a team.  Plus, Miami will probably waste the picks any ways.  If it all works out, the Texans will b drafting at the end of each round lessening the impact of the trade.