Ideal WR to pair with TY Hilton (Draft)

[TYtheGHOST]

K’Neal Harry out of ASU, he’s 6’4 and reminds me of a Julio Jones/Calvin Johnson. He doesn’t have great separation skills but he does an excellent job going for 50/50 balls, and makes YAC after he gets the ball in open field with the ability to truck people over and get a few extra yards. I’ve also seen him doing some good work out the backfield on reverses. Think he would be the ideal candidate to pair with Hilton. He may go earlier than our first round/2nd round picks but if he falls to us I think he has great potential and I would not be mad if we got him.

highlights: 

 

[crazycolt1]

Why is there this obsession with receivers who are 6-4? 

If a receiver can run good routes, get himself open and has good hands, his size makes no difference.

[TYtheGHOST]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Why is there this obsession with receivers who are 6-4? 

If a receiver can run good routes, get himself open and has good hands, his size makes no difference.

Did you read past the first sentence?

[chad72]

I think Deebo Samuel separates better at 6'1" 210 lbs, and probably can mix and match inside and outside better.  Deebo has everything we need in the current NFL and the move he put on in this video was Julian Edelmanesque, cannot teach that, instant separation. I will be happy if we get him with our second pick. If not him, the other guy I am high on is Hakeem Butler. Most of the good WRs will be gone, I feel, by the time our pick in the 50s comes along. Our Jets trade pick No.36 is where we need to get our WR.

 

https://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-football/article225073955.html

 

[crazycolt1]

9 minutes ago, TYtheGHOST said:

Did you read past the first sentence?

 

Every year we read about this next coming of Calvin Johnson.  Well we are still looking.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

2 hours ago, TYtheGHOST said:

K’Neal Harry out of ASU, he’s 6’4 and reminds me of a Julio Jones/Calvin Johnson. He doesn’t have great separation skills but he does an excellent job going for 50/50 balls, and makes YAC after he gets the ball in open field with the ability to truck people over and get a few extra yards. I’ve also seen him doing some good work out the backfield on reverses. Think he would be the ideal candidate to pair with Hilton. He may go earlier than our first round/2nd round picks but if he falls to us I think he has great potential and I would not be mad if we got him.

highlights: 

 

 

I don't know anything about him. I will Definitely need to check him out. I do like the 6'4" part AND the Julio/Calvin refernce. Not crazy tho about such a high draft pick that doesn't get separation in college. It probably won't improve in the NFL.

Will check him out.

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

DK Metcalf or AJ Brown...with the second pick in Rd 2. I think they'll just draft BPA at WR with one of the 2nd rounders is my guess. The other Ole Miss WR, DeMarkus Lodge is underrated playing behind those 2, and I wouldn't be mad if they took him in the 3rd or 4th. 

 

Harry is pretty slow, I worry that he's gonna get blanketed at the next level, plus his Sophomore season was better than his Junior, so he may have peaked. I wouldn't be upset if they picked him, but he's probably my 4th or 5th option. 

[Stillen]

I tend to not like players in college that can't get separation and make most of their catches on 50/50 balls. Separation is key in the NFL and although winning 50/50 balls is nice, you're going to lose them more often than not. 

 

Size is a plus, but if available AJ Brown would be nice. Runs the cleanest routes probably of the top 5 and is able to separate and has good hands.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

By the time a reciever we draft is ready to make a impact TY will be getting ready for retirement. Even guys like AB it took a few years. I don’t think we need a reciever as bad as everyone thinks. Ebron basically plays wide reciever. With Doyle back that gives us a lot of targets. If we resign Inman he will have a entire off season and will probably be better then this year.

[BOTT]

Another WR that can't get separation......just what the colts need.

[TYtheGHOST]

21 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Another WR that can't get separation......just what the colts need.

 

[BProland85]

I’d like either Hakeem Butler or Parris Campbell late 2nd/early 3rd round.

 

I want added talent and pass rush on defense with our first 2 picks. This class is so good on the DL so we need to take advantage of it. 

[DougDew]

6 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Why is there this obsession with receivers who are 6-4? 

If a receiver can run good routes, get himself open and has good hands, his size makes no difference.

One of the best posts from any member on this forum in the past month.  Congratulations.

[Defjamz26]

N’Keal Harry is extremely underrated. He has no explosion what so ever.

[BleedBlu8792]

Just now, Defjamz26 said:

N’Keal Harry is extremely underrated. He has no explosion what so ever.

 

Overrated?

[Defjamz26]

1 minute ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Overrated?

Yes. People talk as if he’s this big alpha male receiver that can’t be stopped, but he’s not. He has no explosive traits and his best ability is winning 50/50 balls because he can’t separate, so he’s only thrown 50/50 balls. If you like big receivers, Metcalf and Harmon are better.

[BleedBlu8792]

Just now, Defjamz26 said:

Yes. People talk as if he’s this big alpha male receiver that can’t be stopped, but he’s not. He has no explosive traits and his best ability is winning 50/50 balls because he can’t separate, so he’s only thrown 50/50 balls. If you like big receivers, Metcalf and Harmon are better.

 

Ok.. "underrated" didn't make sense with what you said about him so I was just making sure what you meant...

 

I think the "value" in receivers is going to be in that 2-4 range. I really don't trust Harry or Metcalf. I remember when Laquan Treadwell (some similarity physically to Metcalf) came out from Ole Miss and he was supposed to be "NFL ready" too, and he's been a lame.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

By the time a reciever we draft is ready to make a impact TY will be getting ready for retirement. Even guys like AB it took a few years. I don’t think we need a reciever as bad as everyone thinks. Ebron basically plays wide reciever. With Doyle back that gives us a lot of targets. If we resign Inman he will have a entire off season and will probably be better then this year.

I think we need help at the WR spot but I get your point about the time factor.

Normally it takes 2-3 years for a receiver to learn to play in the NFL.

Frank was pretty good at utilizing the receiving personnel we had between the WRs and the TEs.

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

By the time a reciever we draft is ready to make a impact TY will be getting ready for retirement. Even guys like AB it took a few years. I don’t think we need a reciever as bad as everyone thinks. Ebron basically plays wide reciever. With Doyle back that gives us a lot of targets. If we resign Inman he will have a entire off season and will probably be better then this year.

Oh we def need a wide wr. They couldn't  separate  versus sorry chiefs d and dropped the ball too much

[TYtheGHOST]

I think this guy has raw skills and could be coached up. However, I’m gonna leave the decision up to Ballard and the scouts to decide if he’s worth it. If we don’t get him cool, but I think the kid has sky high potential. Although we all have seen how that plays out before with picks in the Grigson Era. Like I said before I leave it up to the management but I think this could do well in the NFL

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

57 minutes ago, TYtheGHOST said:

I think this guy has raw skills and could be coached up. However, I’m gonna leave the decision up to Ballard and the scouts to decide if he’s worth it. If we don’t get him cool, but I think the kid has sky high potential. Although we all have seen how that plays out before with picks in the Grigson Era. Like I said before I leave it up to the management but I think this could do well in the NFL

 

It's not like he's a bad option, but I would be upset if they spent any of their first 3 picks on him, and he will be gone before that. I just don't think he'll ever be a featured WR, because that would require beating guys like Jaylen Ramsey and other lockdown corners on a consistent basis, and he isn't fast enough for that. At best, I see a #2 WR that can get you 50/50 balls downfield and be a redzone threat, but never a Pro Bowler. 

[Zoltan]

9 hours ago, chad72 said:

I think Deebo Samuel separates better at 6'1" 210 lbs, and probably can mix and match inside and outside better.  Deebo has everything we need in the current NFL and the move he put on in this video was Julian Edelmanesque, cannot teach that, instant separation. I will be happy if we get him with our second pick. If not him, the other guy I am high on is Hakeem Butler. Most of the good WRs will be gone, I feel, by the time our pick in the 50s comes along. Our Jets trade pick No.36 is where we need to get our WR.

 

https://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-football/article225073955.html

 

 

Deebo Samuel isn't 6' 1" he's closer to 5' 11".

[Zoltan]

I'm a fan of Kelvin Harmon personally, but gotta see what his combine stats are (mostly see his vertical jump and 40 time). Really until then can't make a solid decision about any of the WRs

[MikeCurtis]

7 hours ago, BOTT said:

Another WR that can't get separation......just what the colts need.

THANK YOU!!!

 

It seems that there are only a few that notice this from the highlight films

 

I see a guy that cant separate from college CBs

 

He catches the 50/50 contested balls, but sheeze.... NFL CBs will be swatting these passes away

 

 

 

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

From a 1070 Ballard interview

 

On the biggest need: “Well, I know what the fans they think it is. Receiver. ‘We have to get another wideout.’ I get it. We all want one. I would love to go pluck one off of a tree and I would love that. (Dontrellle) Inman was good for us. Ryan Grant was good for us early until he got nicked up and then just kept getting nicked up to where he couldn’t get back to speed again. I want to continue to add defensively, to the talent level on defense. I still believe you win games with good defenses. (Scoring) is at a record pace with the numbers. It’s incredible what offenses are doing. But I just think there’s points in the season, where you get into the playoffs, you are going to have to stop people. You have to get stops. That eventually is what is going to allow us to get over the hump.”

 

On what needs to happen to improve the defense: “We have to continue to upgrade the talent. I thought our front played good football, but having a dominant, dominant edge rusher, which is almost like that wideout we talk about, it’s not easy to find, we have to find him. When we will find him? Maybe the draft this year, maybe free agency. We will keep searching and throwing darts to try and find the right traits in that rusher. But I think in this league, when you can have a dominant rusher that the other team really has to on Monday come in and game plan for, and really more than one, to me, you want two or three along the front, that would be the No. 1 priority in my mind going forward. You have to be able to play, we are primarily a zone coverage team, but we are going to play man-to-man, and you have to be able to lock up. There’s going to be times on third down and in points in the game, where you have to lock up and play man-to-man and you have to win. Those are areas that we want to continue to search, look and grow and get better.

 

I think Ballard will do EXACTLY what he says he is going to do

 

 

I think the guys clamoring for a round 1 WR, are going to be sorely disappointed

 

Defense early and often..... especially at pass rusher

 

I expect 2 in the draft....... AND at least one in FA

 

Its clear CB sees this as a HUGE need

 

There should be tremendous WR talent available in round 2 and 3

WRs that can actually separate from college CBs

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, Zoltan said:

 

Deebo Samuel isn't 6' 1" he's closer to 5' 11".

After looking at his skill set personally I don't care if he is 5' 5".  The dude can work himself open. Good Hands.  Good enough.

[CoachLite]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

After looking at his skill set personally I don't care if he is 5' 5".  The dude can work himself open. Good Hands.  Good enough.

Deebo Samuel (at whatever height he has) at 34 O/A, teamed with TY would be awesome. He has some wicked moves, great hands and seems to be the quality person CB is looking for.

[backshoulderfade]

18 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Why is there this obsession with receivers who are 6-4? 

If a receiver can run good routes, get himself open and has good hands, his size makes no difference.

Match ups. Simple. We have TY who runs great routes and can take the top off a team. We have Hines who is shifty and can line up all over the formation. A big bodied reciever who can go up and make catches over the top of a cornerback would simply add another dimension to the offense.

 

With that said, a Reggie Wayne type would make the offense near impossible to stop. A guy who creates seperation at a high rate. A guy with hands to make any catch.

[stitches]

here's a VERY early/preliminary list for me with some pro's and cons:

 

1. DK Metcalf

pros: size, athleticism, explosiveness, beats press man seamlessly at the LOS, sharp breaks on routes, easy separation downfield, special catches

cons: limited production, limited route tree in college, needs to be more physical at the catch point, some concentration drops

 

2. Deebo Samuel

pros: expansive route tree, great separation, master of angles both in his route running and in setting up defenders for missed tackles, huge YAC potential

cons: not the biggest receiver, limited catch radius, not great in contested catch situations

 

3. Hakeem Butler

pros: size, athleticism, physicality, attacks the ball in the air, has "it's my ball" mentality, YAC, great blocker

cons: route running/separation on intermediate routes, due to agility limitations

 

4. Marquise Brown - Brown is a bit too much like TY, but I still wouldn't mind having him

pros: blazing fast, big play ability, good route running... good ability to separate

cons: size, physicality, contested catch ability, contact balance, has questionable hands in traffic/on contact

 

5. JJ Arcega-Whiteside

pros: size, physicality at the catch point, attacks the ball and plucks in the air, downfield threat, great tracking of the football, red zone god, great positioning for jump balls, great at establishing leverage on routes

cons: ok, not great speed, lack of agility, lack of YAC 

 

6. AJ Brown 

pros: size, physicality, good route runner, good separating in the short-to-intermediate routes, YAC ability, hands

cons: athleticism/speed, lack of big play ability downfield 

 

7. N'Keal Harry

pros: size, physicality, contested catch ability, YAC ability... good acceleration/ power/ explosiveness in short areas

cons: lack of separation, long speed

 

8. Riley Ridley

pros: sharp and nuanced route running, hands, versatility(lines up everywhere and can win from anywhere on the field), tracking the ball

cons: production, inconsistent beating press-man, release off the LOS(gets jammed and interrupted too often) 

 

9. Dillon Mitchell 

pros: hands, route running, separation, YAC ability - slippery, makes people miss

cons: slight frame, contested catches, physicality, blocking

 

10. Kelvin Harmon

pros: size, physicality, catch radius, contested catch ability, "it's my ball" attitude in the air

cons: athleticism, separation, route running

 

 

11. Paris Campbell 

12. Andy Isabella

13. DeMarcus Lodge

14. David Sills

15. Anthony Johnson

16. Lil Jordan Humphrey

 

 

Consider this more of a general ranges ranking. I'm not married to any of those rankings(and most evaluations) and with more tape watching and information coming(like the combine) this might change a bit by draft day. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 hours ago, Stephen said:

Oh we def need a wide wr. They couldn't  separate  versus sorry chiefs d and dropped the ball too much

I don’t put to much stock in that game. The entire team collapsed and ran out of gas. Our offense isn’t as close to as bad as it showed that game.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

17 minutes ago, backshoulderfade said:

Match ups. Simple. We have TY who runs great routes and can take the top off a team. We have Hines who is shifty and can line up all over the formation. A big bodied reciever who can go up and make catches over the top of a cornerback would simply add another dimension to the offense.

 

With that said, a Reggie Wayne type would make the offense near impossible to stop. A guy who creates seperation at a high rate. A guy with hands to make any catch.

Don’t we already have this in Ebron. He really played wide receiver this year. Go back and look st his highlights. He jumped up and got a lot of balls over the cornerback.

[Defjamz26]

I like Brown. He separates well in the slot. And he’s got a muscled up frame. He’s a possession receiver like Wayne. And he’s got YAC ability. He’d compliment Hilton well.

 

Also I think it is important for the Colts to get a WR with size. Although he was inconsistent, people forget how well Moncrief complimented Hilton. He could get behind the defense, and he would make some contested catches. A WR we draft doesn’t have to be 6’4” but he needs to at least be bigger than Hilton. Physicality is an important trait to have in a receiver.

[backshoulderfade]

26 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Don’t we already have this in Ebron. He really played wide receiver this year. Go back and look st his highlights. He jumped up and got a lot of balls over the cornerback.

Ebron was a great, great addition to the team. He was a big difference maker in this offense. That said, he is not without his issues. Namely, in the recieving game, drops. The other side to it is, as a tight end, Ebron will mostly be lining across from safeties and linebackers. 

 

Guys like K'Neal Harry, DK Metcalf or Hakeen Butler have that explosiveness to take the top off the defense, or get those RAC yards. They are more than just 6'4+ guys who you are going to throw jump balls to all game.

 

Think about an offense where you have TY, one of those guys to occupy the cornerbacks, and Ebron on the safeties. Could be exciting.

 

That said, there is more than one way to build a championship roster. I would be equally happy with that Reggie Wayne-type I alluded to in the previous post.

 

Edit: Just a reflection on the KC game, all the recievers were struggling greatly to get seperation, it could have been useful to have that big body to make a catch downfield with the db draped all over him.

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

KCs defense got shredded for most of the year, with the better offenses dropping huge numbers on them...they made the Colts look really pedestrian. There's a major need for weapons around Luck, just so happens there are a few bigger needs at the moment, because our lack of WR prowess was like the 3rd/4th most alarming thing in that game. 

[Boiler_Colt]

Give me a guy with great hands, that can separate. I dont care how tall they are. I really like Deebo. These tall guys that have trouble separating, you never know what youre going to get. If they're Alshon Jeffery or Mike Evans, sign me up. But more often than not they turn out like Dorial Green-Beckham.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, backshoulderfade said:

Match ups. Simple. We have TY who runs great routes and can take the top off a team. We have Hines who is shifty and can line up all over the formation. A big bodied reciever who can go up and make catches over the top of a cornerback would simply add another dimension to the offense.

 

With that said, a Reggie Wayne type would make the offense near impossible to stop. A guy who creates seperation at a high rate. A guy with hands to make any catch.

As a couple of other have brought up the position you want is called a TE.

Every team in the NFL would love to find a player like Megatron was.  It seems every team in the NFL has been looking for that player with those skills.

Well they been looking now for 10 years and haven't found one.

Fans see this 6' 4" receiver in college who catches a few TDs by over powering college players and then assume he is the next Megatron.

A Wayne type receiver? Yes, but they don't grow HOF receivers on trees.

I will take that receiver who can work and find the open spots on the field any day over a 50/50 jump ball receiver coming out of college.

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

46 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

As a couple of other have brought up the position you want is called a TE.

Every team in the NFL would love to find a player like Megatron was.  It seems every team in the NFL has been looking for that player with those skills.

Well they been looking now for 10 years and haven't found one.

Fans see this 6' 4" receiver in college who catches a few TDs by over powering college players and then assume he is the next Megatron.

A Wayne type receiver? Yes, but they don't grow HOF receivers on trees.

I will take that receiver who can work and find the open spots on the field any day over a 50/50 jump ball receiver coming out of college.

 

Why not have both? A guy like DK Metcalf is insanely quick (4.4 40, 22.6 top end mph) and huge (6'4 230 lbs) and has a monster catch radius. That's why prior to his injury he was talked about in the Top 10 of the upcoming draft. It would be a steal if he fell to the Colts in the 2nd (don't advocate taking a WR in the 1st). But, as I eluded to in another post, after he tears apart the NFL Combine, he's gonna be long gone before we can ever draft him, unfortunately. 

 

I love Deebo Samuel myself, but the way he's played this week, he may very well be gone too. 

[backshoulderfade]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

As a couple of other have brought up the position you want is called a TE.

Every team in the NFL would love to find a player like Megatron was.  It seems every team in the NFL has been looking for that player with those skills.

Well they been looking now for 10 years and haven't found one.

Fans see this 6' 4" receiver in college who catches a few TDs by over powering college players and then assume he is the next Megatron.

A Wayne type receiver? Yes, but they don't grow HOF receivers on trees.

I will take that receiver who can work and find the open spots on the field any day over a 50/50 jump ball receiver coming out of college.

No one is implying that any of these guys are megatron, or Julio, or Randy Moss. It's just a different skillset than other guys on the team. And the guys who have been mentioned, they all can create seperation. 

 

And obviously the chances of finding a Reggie Wayne level talent is nigh impossible, but I was reffering to someone of a similar skillset. A Robert Woods type reciever, for example.

 

Tight ends are not there to be jump ball recievers. Sure, some of them have that skillset, just like some recievers do.

 

You did a good job misrepresenting my points though, kudos.

[coltsva]

6'4"? Oh good, we can throw him that horrible end zone corner lob that almost never works.

[crazycolt1]

10 minutes ago, backshoulderfade said:

No one is implying that any of these guys are megatron, or Julio, or Randy Moss. It's just a different skillset than other guys on the team. And the guys who have been mentioned, they all can create seperation. 

 

And obviously the chances of finding a Reggie Wayne level talent is nigh impossible, but I was reffering to someone of a similar skillset. A Robert Woods type reciever, for example.

 

Tight ends are not there to be jump ball recievers. Sure, some of them have that skillset, just like some recievers do.

 

You did a good job misrepresenting my points though, kudos.

Sorry, I didn't misrepresent anything.

It's my opinion, nothing else.

Every upcoming draft the same thing appears. We need that big, tall receiver who can out muscle NFL CBs and Safeties. Yeah, every team wants one of those but the reality is you win games with receivers who are consistent and help you QB complete passes. Not just highlight spots. Height has zero to do with that.