Colts Listening To Offers For Freeney

[rockywoj]

The guy had 13 tackles last season. On a defense that couldn't get off the field.

He played HALF A SEASON WITHOUT GETTING A SINGLE TACKLE (8 games!)

Take the pick and run!

And he opens things up for other players because always has to be accounted for, ESPECIALLY in passing situations. He's a game changer and when he's not making the plays himself, the attention that is afforded in defending against him opens things up for others to make plays.

[wercolts]

The Colts D may have been on the field more than ever last season, and how do his numbers look?

http://www.colts.com/team/roster/Dwight-Freeney/b1814bcf-9e23-44d8-83a8-20aaa6711a41

His worst ever in a year with many more opportunities. Buh Bye

[IndyTrav]

And he opens things up for other players because always has to be accounted for, ESPECIALLY in passing situations. He's a game changer and when he's not making the plays himself, the attention that is afforded in defending against him opens things up for others to make plays.

Ahh, the classic, "Its what he does for other people" defense....

Like our non-rushing LBs, who have always been mediocre, and non-factors....

Or our extreme Def. Tackles, who always seem to come up big....

Or Mathis, the guy who is the 2nd farthest player on the team from him, position alignment wise.....

[Jaric]

Is anyone else blown away by how fast this under-talented team is shedding talent

Nope. I'd rather have 4 good guys making 5 mil each than one great guy making 20 mil.

[CCH]

This isn't surprising to me, I've traded him in just about all my mocks for a couple months now. Buffalo, New England, Atlanta and Miami could be interested.

But just 3 months ago I bought a Peyton, Reggie and Freeney fathead, I think I'm done buying those things they're cursed lol.

[rockywoj]

Ahh, the classic, "Its what he does for other people" defense....

Well, your dismissiveness about his elite talent flies in the face of pretty much every respected talent evaluator out there.

I have no problem counting myself as a believer that Freeney is one of the top 5 pass rushers in the league. I think there's a good chance he may one day be in the HOF and to my eyes, I have not seen any appreciable drop off in his level of play. I guess agree to disagree, apparently you think he's an insignificant contributor to be sold off to the first bidder. I do not conur.

[Susie Q]

Trade Freeney for V. Jackson (chargers) and dump Wayne to (houston) for M. Williams. We would have to probally give a draft pick to complete the Wayne deal. Resign Garcon and we have nice weapons for now for Luck. Dump D Clark (get a late round pick), J Addai (get a late round pick) and A Gonzalez.

WR1 - V Jackson (route runner)

WR 2 - P Garson (speed threat)

WR 3 - A Collie (quick slant threat)

TE - J Tamme (quick slant outlet receiver)

RB 1 - D Brown (Gronkowski lead blocker)

RB 2 - D Carter (3rd down back)

I actually like this line up and think it is resonable. What do you think?

You can't dump Wayne anywhere he's a FA and he can sign where he wants. Garcon already turned down his 1st offer. Don't know if Clark is a FA or not.

[Kirie89]

I would take whatever the highest offer for him is, as long as it’s at least a third rounder.

• He's approaching the end of his career.
  
• He's counting 19 million dollars against the cap.
  
• He's a free agent next year.
  
• He might not want to change schemes and stand up at OLB.
  
• He might not fit in a new scheme.
  
• He might not like the direction the team is taking for the short term.
  

The best thing is to get something for him and get rid of the cap hit, to help the rebuilding.

[dgambill]

Nope. I'd rather have 4 good guys making 5 mil each than one great guy making 20 mil.

Exactly. I think it is obvious that Dwight won't be a Colt next year so lets take a stab at the draft this year. DT is very very deep this year. QB, CB, TE and Safety aren't. I saw a lot of talent at the combine at defensive tackle and through the college season. I think we have to be looking at DT with our second round pick regardless to replace him next year but we have so many needs that to get a pick or two for him such as a 2nd rounder would allow us to address OLB, TE, and WR. I think our secondary isn't going to change much....they are young and need a lot of coaching...at least coached something other than the soft cover two we have always played. We know our guys are fast so hopefully they can cover (big hope). I think DL and LB is where we need addressed and Freeney moving would help us the most since he doesn't fit the new scheme and won't be back. We are already locked into a top 5 pick next year regardless...Freeney or not...we are being gutted so we might as well face it. No matter how bad we want Peyton Manning and Reggie and Dwight walking through that door it ain't going to happen...so we might as well put some young guys out there and hope we find the next Suggs and Ngotta.

[oldunclemark]

Is anyone else blown away by how fast this under-talented team is shedding talent

Me, for one.

[Susie Q]

lol yeah same here, I only have two jerseys Freeney and Garcon, .

Looks like you need to do some shopping.

[ColtsPRIDE11]

I do think that Freeney is gone...unless Pagano can persuade him to stay...but that is highly doubtful. I keep reminding myself there are bests like him coming up and he can be replaced, but dang! Can't help but love Freeney.

As for Clark, I hope against hope we can keep him. If we have him and Tamme at the TE position then we'll be set...time will tell...

[chad72]

The Colts D may have been on the field more than ever last season, and how do his numbers look?

http://www.colts.com...a8-20aaa6711a41

His worst ever in a year with many more opportunities. Buh Bye

Agree, to an extent. They did bring two more DEs in free agency in Anderson and Brayton to play run down DE more giving Freeney more breathers than before. So, that negates the more opportunity theory because we were playing from behind more than playing ahead, so run D took a priority over pass D all season.

[esh318]

We're rebuilding. It's like starting all over again. The faster you do this the better...don't drag along trying to hold onto the past. We can build plenty of great memories with the new guys. Cherish the old memories, but you can't win with that alone.

Yeah, I guess you're right. If we rebuild all at once, we'll be bad for a few years, but then we can get good draft picks and build a new core for the next decade. It's painful to watch, but I guess it's the right way to do it.

[Boneman2]

Yeah, we need to start cashing out on these veterans because clearly we're rebuilding. A player like Dwight gets paid to rush the passer, which means he needs to be with a team that forces their opponents to pass, a lot. New England is a really good spot,and they have a lot of picks, I just don't know if I'd want Freeney to help out the Pats. Dwight loves the Northeast and I know he'd immediately extend with them.

Imagine Freeney in the AFC East playing against the Dolphins or Jets, if Peyton ends up in one of those places. It'll be like catching your wife in bed with your friend, words really can't describe.

With the Colts his time is done. I'd like maybe a late 1st + 5th, or 2nd + 4th. I think the Raider gave up two 1st for Seymour, so New England knows they're getting value.

[IndyTrav]

Well, your dismissiveness about his elite talent flies in the face of pretty much every respect talent evaluator out there.

I have no problem counting myself as a believer that Freeney is one of the top 5 pass rushers in the league.

Then maybe you should watch the rest of the league play?

Ware, Allen,Peppers, Pierre Paul, Williams, Hali these are a few 'pass rushers' who are easily better.

How about players who aren't just 'pass rushers'? Who happen to be able to 'pass rush' while still contributing to the teams success in other forms. We could get into that list if you'd like. Dwight would probably be around the #30 mark. Maybe.

[chad72]

Then maybe you should watch the rest of the league play?

Ware, Allen,Peppers, Pierre Paul, Williams, Hali these are a few 'pass rushers' who are easily better.

How about players who aren't just 'pass rushers'? Who happen to be able to 'pass rush' while still contributing to the teams success in other forms. We could get into that list if you'd like. Dwight would probably be around the #30 mark. Maybe.

Sorry, you are exaggerating on the opposite side of the spectrum. #30???

Freeney is somewhere in the middle, somewhere between 10-20 in DE rankings in terms of the quality he brings in terms of pass rush and forcing opponents to game plan for him. There are still not many 270 lb DEs that can move like him, pass rush or bull rush like him out of a 3 point stance. His lack of long arms results in less batted passes and his deficiency in run D is what takes him down to the 10-20 mark.

But, for the price he is paid by our team, yes, he is not worth the value we are getting from him. Plus, he is probably the worst fit among our current DEs or OLB candidates for the 3-4 hybrid D that Pagano wants to play.

[CS Colts Fan]

dgambill, We are already locked into a top 5 pick next year regardless

How do we know this?

[chad72]

I think the Raider gave up two 1st for Seymour, so New England knows they're getting value.

They gave up just 1 first rounder.

Freeney gets a 2nd and a 4th or 5th together at best, IMO.

[Superman]

They gave up just 1 first rounder.

Freeney gets a 2nd and a 4th or 5th together at best, IMO.

2 and 4 this year? I'll take it. This is a deep draft, I would love to get more picks this year. Or maybe we could do a high 2nd this year, and a 3rd next year.

[Superman]

Sorry, you are exaggerating on the opposite side of the spectrum. #30???

Freeney is somewhere in the middle, somewhere between 10-20 in DE rankings in terms of the quality he brings in terms of pass rush and forcing opponents to game plan for him. There are still not many 270 lb DEs that can move like him, pass rush or bull rush like him out of a 3 point stance. His lack of long arms results in less batted passes and his deficiency in run D is what takes him down to the 10-20 mark.

But, for the price he is paid by our team, yes, he is not worth the value we are getting from him. Plus, he is probably the worst fit among our current DEs or OLB candidates for the 3-4 hybrid D that Pagano wants to play.

Freeney is probably the best pure pass rusher in the NFL. And his ability against the run is vastly understated. He lines up in the nine so often that his side is susceptible to run plays and draws, but he's stout against the run. He's a great player, an all-time great pass rusher, and in a 4 down front, every opponent must gameplan for him first.

[Corndog]

No problem here, I am betting we are going to a 3-4 defense and Freeney won't make the transition. I believe Mathis will, he is less one demensional and I could see him working as a OLB. I am cool with getting a 2nd round pick for him, a 3rd round wouldn't be great, but what the heck. This team needs draft picks and cap room. I also don't see Freeney getting resigned, so why not get something for him?

[Superman]

Well, your dismissiveness about his elite talent flies in the face of pretty much every respected talent evaluator out there.

I have no problem counting myself as a believer that Freeney is one of the top 5 pass rushers in the league. I think there's a good chance he may one day be in the HOF and to my eyes, I have not seen any appreciable drop off in his level of play. I guess agree to disagree, apparently you think he's an insignificant contributor to be sold off to the first bidder. I do not conur.

I agree that he's a top level pass rusher, and I love having him on the Colts. But his cap hit is prohibitive, he's a free agent next year (and likely won't be resigned), and he reportedly won't agree to an extension with the Colts at this point. So he's sort of forcing the team's hand. Can't keep him at $19 million this year and then get nothing for him, not when we could trade him for a couple draft picks right now.

With the impending scheme change, his effectiveness on our team will be greatly reduced. He's probably been our second most important player for the last several years, but I think his days as a Colt are coming to an end, either this year (because we trade him) or next (because he walks). Might as well maximize value, get cap relief, and move on.

[chrisfarley]

Okay... so whether or not we extend his deal makes no difference to his cap hit?

If thats the case.... then as much as I love Dwight, we gotta shop him.

teams aren't going to want that cap hit

[Superman]

teams aren't going to want that cap hit

He'll have to agree to a multi-year deal with a new team. He needs to hire an agent in order for this to work to our benefit.

[Andy]

Some guys initially say that they wont renegotiate, but once the reality of changing teams starts looking more and more evident, he may reconsider. I don't think we should turn our back on him yet. I think he still has good value on this team, and odds are we won't get much for him if traded. If the Colts release him, he'll realize that no team would want to give him the same contract/same money. Staying in Indy would be his best bet, even if he had to take a paycut. So bottomline:

- Would lose a significant amount of money if he gets released and wants to be signed

- The Colts wouldn't get much for an aging 19M dollar star whose lost some of his spark over the last 2 years.

- He would be better if he stayed on the Colts, but took a paycut.

- He must either take a paycut or leave the Colts, we can't go into next year with a 19M dollar player who's worth 9M at most. I think bringing his salary down about 6 million would be good, or giving him an extension and spreading out the money.

[dgambill]

teams aren't going to want that cap hit

Some teams have the cap space and need a pass rusher....example Cincy and Seattle and Washington seems to always go after veteren dts lol maybe convince them of a second rounder...there's is high.

dgambill, We are already locked into a top 5 pick next year regardless

How do we know this?

Sorry...it is my opinion....based on what Irsay said at the conference about us taking a few years to rebuild and how the team is attempting to move their valuable players... ie freeney and clark.

[Andy]

Freeney is probably the best pure pass rusher in the NFL. And his ability against the run is vastly understated. He lines up in the nine so often that his side is susceptible to run plays and draws, but he's stout against the run. He's a great player, an all-time great pass rusher, and in a 4 down front, every opponent must gameplan for him first.

Agree that he's the best pure pass rusher, but especially these days, you don't really want a pure pass rusher, especially if the guy on the other side is a pass rusher too. You pay big money to the DEs that could do everything. The Jared Allens, the Justin Smith's, Peppers... Why settle for one really good aspect when you could get a player who's not as good of a pass rusher but a much better run stopper and could knock down balls. He's also been severly declining in the last couple of years, and that's due to constant double teams, but that's also due to lack of motivation. Terrible season last year and notice that he was only busy getting to the QB in the close games, cause he wanted to win. I think if you have to build around one guy it's Dwight Freeney because he's the guy every coach looks at and prepares for, more than most defensive players in the league if you ask me.

He's got some great traits about him and the bad, and if they try, they could find a better overall DE out there. He has to take a paycut or everyone is losing in this situation. BTW, the best pure pass rusher in the NFL is Demarcus Ware, he's at the top of sack leaders each year for the last few years. He's better than Freeney now if you ask me. In their primes, that's a better debate.

[Coltsman1788]

According to the article, Freeney is unwilling to restructure so he is as good as gone.

Well there you go...if he won't restructure then we need to get what we can before he walks next year. It should be for a second round pick though. He should be worth that to some team as he still has game.

The Colts made the right choice to keep Mathis going forward but due to Freeney's age and cap number it makes sense to try to see what we can get for him.

[JoKeR]

And he opens things up for other players because always has to be accounted for, ESPECIALLY in passing situations. He's a game changer and when he's not making the plays himself, the attention that is afforded in defending against him opens things up for others to make plays.

What's changed is that he's not getting sacks, usually he frees up other players while he's getting sacks. Just freeing up players is not enough value for the money.

[bayone]

The Titans should chase Dwight Freeney

By Paul Kuharsky

Freeney is worth the 20th pick and big money, provided you can strike a contract deal.

That’s a move that would amount to the Titans saying they are about right now, not 2014. That’s when a first-round defensive end picked at the end of April will likely be ready to be a consistent factor – if he emerges as a top-level pass-rusher at all.

This is not a great defensive end class.

The odds are against getting an immediate impact rusher at No. 20.

Meanwhile Freeney is a matchup nightmare, whose spin move and quickness are incredibly difficult to slow. He’ll always draw a double, making life easier on everyone on the line.

And the pressure he brings will make each of the other 10 guys on the field better.

Be bold. Back of the get-bigger philosophy for this guy. Get on the phone.

http://espn.go.com/b...yESPNToday_Team

[Superman]

Some guys initially say that they wont renegotiate, but once the reality of changing teams starts looking more and more evident, he may reconsider. I don't think we should turn our back on him yet. I think he still has good value on this team, and odds are we won't get much for him if traded. If the Colts release him, he'll realize that no team would want to give him the same contract/same money. Staying in Indy would be his best bet, even if he had to take a paycut. So bottomline:

- Would lose a significant amount of money if he gets released and wants to be signed

- The Colts wouldn't get much for an aging 19M dollar star whose lost some of his spark over the last 2 years.

- He would be better if he stayed on the Colts, but took a paycut.

- He must either take a paycut or leave the Colts, we can't go into next year with a 19M dollar player who's worth 9M at most. I think bringing his salary down about 6 million would be good, or giving him an extension and spreading out the money.

If he gets cut, he'll get at least a $15 million signing bonus with another team, and that will make up for the $19 million salary he's due this year. If he gets traded, he'll be agreeing to an extension with another team, with a new signing bonus. He's not losing money in any scenario.

[JWF]

Freeney on the Titans? Chasing Luck twice a year? As long as we fleeced them of a 1st id be good.

[Superman]

Agree that he's the best pure pass rusher, but especially these days, you don't really want a pure pass rusher,

I think anyone who doesn't want a pure pass rusher in an increasingly pass-happy league is crazy.

especially if the guy on the other side is a pass rusher too. You pay big money to the DEs that could do everything. The Jared Allens, the Justin Smith's, Peppers... Why settle for one really good aspect when you could get a player who's not as good of a pass rusher but a much better run stopper and could knock down balls.

All those guys are great (including a few others), but none of them equal Freeney in passing situations. And as I mentioned above, there are more and more passing situations in the NFL anymore.

He's also been severly declining in the last couple of years, and that's due to constant double teams, but that's also due to lack of motivation. Terrible season last year and notice that he was only busy getting to the QB in the close games, cause he wanted to win.

He hasn't been declining at all. We've been playing a ridiculous scheme in the secondary since the Super Bowl, limiting his effectiveness. I don't see any lack of motivation from him. I see a frustrated pass rusher who hasn't gotten any help from his defensive coaches.

I think if you have to build around one guy it's Dwight Freeney because he's the guy every coach looks at and prepares for, more than most defensive players in the league if you ask me.

Which is why a fringe playoff team that needs a pass rusher would be willing to give up a couple picks and extend him for three or four years. Give him a four year extension for $42 million and an $18 million signing bonus, and reamortize his $14 million salary for 2012 into that extension, and he'd have an average base salary of $7.6 million, and an average cap hit of $11.2 million.

He's got some great traits about him and the bad, and if they try, they could find a better overall DE out there. He has to take a paycut or everyone is losing in this situation. BTW, the best pure pass rusher in the NFL is Demarcus Ware, he's at the top of sack leaders each year for the last few years. He's better than Freeney now if you ask me. In their primes, that's a better debate.

Meh. Ware gets a lot of scheme help that a three-point rusher would never get. Not knocking him, he's great, but it's hard to compare a two-point rusher in a 3-4 with an end in a 4-3.

[dgambill]

I think the Titans are a poor fit. They do have cap space but I don't think they are a couple players away from being a contender. Locker needs a couple more years and Hasselbeck needs a couple less. They issues in their secondary with Finnegan gone and I am not sure they are settled on their WRs. They do need help on the d-line and Freeney would do that. I think their window isn't quite right though. Cincy to me is a better fit.

[IndyTrav]

Sorry, you are exaggerating on the opposite side of the spectrum. #30???

Freeney is somewhere in the middle, somewhere between 10-20 in DE rankings in terms of the quality he brings in terms of pass rush and forcing opponents to game plan for him. There are still not many 270 lb DEs that can move like him, pass rush or bull rush like him out of a 3 point stance. His lack of long arms results in less batted passes and his deficiency in run D is what takes him down to the 10-20 mark.

But, for the price he is paid by our team, yes, he is not worth the value we are getting from him. Plus, he is probably the worst fit among our current DEs or OLB candidates for the 3-4 hybrid D that Pagano wants to play.

30 is not a stretch one bit, for "pass rush" and more. Which is what I claimed.We'll try and keep MLB and DBs out of this... Now, and moving forward.... In no particular order...Ware,Allen,Peppers, Hali, Pierre Paul, Willams, Matthews, Watts, Ngata, Long, Johnson, Dumervill, Mathis, Osi, Tuck, Smith, Smith, Dockett, Smith, Barwin, Suggs, Miller, Harrison, Orakpo...Theres 24 right off the top of my head. DEs and OLBs who all provide more than what Freeney does.....I even left off players like Babin, Cole, Avril, heck even Suh.....We can go further.....Is Dwight more popular, and have better recognition than most of those guys? Yes. Is he a better player and worth more money. Not even close.

[chad72]

30 is not a stretch one bit, for "pass rush" and more. Which is what I claimed.We'll try and keep MLB and DBs out of this... Now, and moving forward.... In no particular order...Ware,Allen,Peppers, Hali, Pierre Paul, Willams, Matthews, Watts, Ngata, Long, Johnson, Dumervill, Mathis, Osi, Tuck, Smith, Smith, Dockett, Smith, Barwin, Suggs, Miller, Harrison, Orakpo...Theres 24 right off the top of my head. DEs and OLBs who all provide more than what Freeney does.....I even left off players like Babin, Cole, Avril, heck even Suh.....We can go further.....Is Dwight more popular, and have better recognition than most of those guys? Yes. Is he a better player and worth more money. Not even close.

You compare apples and oranges when you compare OLBs coming off a 2 point stance to a DE coming off a 3 point stance, IMO.

Your #30 is still a stretch. I guess we will agree to disagree and not engage in a war of words that Andy and JFC engaged in, supposedly for 27000 words, I heard .

[IndyTrav]

You compare apples and oranges when you compare OLBs coming off a 2 point stance to a DE coming off a 3 point stance, IMO.

Your #30 is still a stretch. I guess we will agree to disagree and not engage in a war of words that Andy and JFC engaged in, supposedly for 27000 words, I heard .

Im not trying to go into a war of words, but i consistently bring up legitmate points when ref. Freeney and his production, like listing 24 players ahead of him, who are just as good at pass rushing AND do more, and I am consistently met with zero retort. Only "well I disagree" or "he helps other guys too"....Its maddening....this is a Colts forum, we all love the guy, but blindness to the rest of the league is no excuse, and when discussing his efforts, its very prudent....

[DG1]

If we can get something decent for him we have to pull the trigger. That contact is WAY too much and he ain't getting any younger.

+1

[Mameluc]

minnesota, falcons, miami, bears all are good landing spots IMO

but i dont think he wants to go to minn...they will suck next year like us