did anyone hear Polian ? chill people

[DougDew]

11 hours ago, HectorRoberts said:

I think a lot of people wanted them to but I don’t think they ever did

I'm not gonna do research, but I'm sure the media reported the offer was made and was rejected.  Ballard in his presser did not identify the specific trade, but acknowledged there was a good trade on the table but kept the pick because he wanted one of the elite players in this draft and the drop down (to 12) would have missed them.  I'm assuming Roquan Smith, one or both of the safties, and possibly McGlinchy were also on his elite list.

 

He said his reasoning was the position of the first round pick, not necessarily what else was offered with it.

 

Buffalo ended up trading up to get Josh Allen anyway.

[Coltforlife]

Talent at the so called skilled positions is clearly lacking.  We need two wide outs a running back, and Hilton and Doyle out on the field.

 

[krunk]

45 minutes ago, krunk said:

I'm still really wanting them to bring Reece Fountain up from the PS.   And I'd go ahead and give Zach Pascal the axe.  We can move Chester Rogers to the KR or just cut him in total also.  I wish we could get a lineup of Hilton, Grant, Fountain, Ishmael and Johnson to be honest.  Don't know what we'd do at KR and PR but I'm just sick of the Chester Rogers and Pascal act right now to be honest.   The lineup I'm suggesting gives us a much better size and speed blend along with guys who can body up on people. I'm just going off gut feel here but I just know I'm right with this.   I think we can start playing some ball with that lineup.  I'll be interested to see what kind of moves Ballard is going to make.  Hopefully he sees it my way because I know he's cut throat when he believes a move or two need to be made.

I mean think about what we could do if we could just get some slightly better play from the WR position and more potential for explosive plays.   I'm talking about just slightly.   We just put up damn near 34 points with the most garbage WR corps in the NFL right now.   What could we do with just some slight improvements in terms of guys who can threaten deep and hold on to the football a little bit more than what we have now? 

 

And I don't necessarily think we need to find a bunch of people off the street to do that. I'm not talking about wholesale improvements, I'm just talking about a couple notches better than the lineup we are trotting out there right now.    The OL is looking better with Costanzo on the left side and Braden Smith on the right side.  Glowinski did his thing yesterday.  Run game showed a decent amount of improvement with Mack in there.   Most we can hope for is some slight improvements out of the WR corps.  We are coming up with 34 points with the current unit and they suck big time. I'm just praying Ballard and Reich tinker with the lineup and give some other guys a chance. Nobody respects these guys we have in there right now.

[Coffeedrinker]

16 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

So who's fault is it we lack playmakers AND talent on defense?

 

We've had 2 Drafts &  2 FA periods since Griggs left. Time is running out on blaming him for our 53 man roster.

Polian, did list a lot of players that are going that way they are just not there yet.  So he doesn't think the Colts need to draft/sign all the playmakers needed, he just thinks several of players on the team are heading that way but not there yet.  Some of the ones he mentioned as heading in that direction are:

 

Ebron

Leonard (thought Leonard has looked great but wanted to see what happened once teams started game planning and developing play/blocking schemes to keep him out of the play)

Hooker

I think Mack showed last night that, if he can stay healthy he is trending that way)

 

A couple of others but it's been a while since I listed to it.

 

I think that is the biggest difference between most fans and the guys that do this for a living.  Fans think you draft a guy and he becomes and instant playmaker and if he doesn't then he was a bust or drafted too early, etc or the flip side, if a player does well for a the first few games than that was a great pick, future hall of famer, etc.  GMs look at how a guy progresses each week, etc.  People forget that the first 2 years most fans considered Reggie Wayne a bust, thought Freeney was going to be a wasted draft pick, figured Mathis was too small and just camp fodder... and with all of those draft picks the fan knew... just knew, there were better people to be drafted still on the board.  Not to say that Gms are always correct and fans are always wrong... but GMs are correct a lot more than the fans are and GMs are looking at a different time frame.  Fans are always looking at the current year, GMs are looking 3-5 years down the road.

 

[MPStack]

Wasn’t it Polian, who thought it was a good idea not to try and go undefeated and rest the starters for a month in 2005?

[DougDew]

I like Polian, but he typically sees things through the lens at which he is used to looking through.  He likes Ebron because he is more like Dallas Clark than Doyle, and likes Leonard because he's a great Tampa 2 LBer.   The Colts are returning to more of his style of football team.

 

By saying these players are future stars is essentially validating his view of football talent.  Don't know how much he would say about players potentially being great if we were still running a Chud offense or a 34 defense.

 

An aside.  I do remember him during the Luck draft saying that there were only three sure thing players in that draft and it would be tough to decide between the 3.  The three being Luck, RG111, and TRich.  LOL

[MPStack]

Polian made as many bone headed decisions as good ones IMO. He did nail a lot of his 1st RD picks until towards then end. Occasionally struck gold with some lower rd picks. However most of his 2nd and 3rd rd picks were not so good. I think he’s ego often got the better of him, but there’s no denying the work he did for the Colts and Bills. Personally, I think he’s a dinosaur now. 

[Finball]

1 hour ago, MPStack said:

Polian made as many bone headed decisions as good ones IMO. He did nail a lot of his 1st RD picks until towards then end. Occasionally struck gold with some lower rd picks. However most of his 2nd and 3rd rd picks were not so good. I think he’s ego often got the better of him, but there’s no denying the work he did for the Colts and Bills. Personally, I think he’s a dinosaur now. 

 

Pretty much in complete agreement here.

 

He was a great, great GM and over long period of time. Didn't personally agree with his philosphy on how to build a team. He started to miss more towards the ned before he gave his son the control. Recently he's said lot of things that make no sense so it's hard to put weigh on what he says.

[ClaytonColt]

4 hours ago, krunk said:

I mean think about what we could do if we could just get some slightly better play from the WR position and more potential for explosive plays.   I'm talking about just slightly.   We just put up damn near 34 points with the most garbage WR corps in the NFL right now.   What could we do with just some slight improvements in terms of guys who can threaten deep and hold on to the football a little bit more than what we have now? 

 

And I don't necessarily think we need to find a bunch of people off the street to do that. I'm not talking about wholesale improvements, I'm just talking about a couple notches better than the lineup we are trotting out there right now.    The OL is looking better with Costanzo on the left side and Braden Smith on the right side.  Glowinski did his thing yesterday.  Run game showed a decent amount of improvement with Mack in there.   Most we can hope for is some slight improvements out of the WR corps.  We are coming up with 34 points with the current unit and they suck big time. I'm just praying Ballard and Reich tinker with the lineup and give some other guys a chance. Nobody respects these guys we have in there right now.

Can you imagine if we actually had a defense and weren't forcing Luck to force things in an effort to win the game

[krunk]

1 hour ago, ClaytonColt said:

Can you imagine if we actually had a defense and weren't forcing Luck to force things in an effort to win the game

Every game is different.  Sometimes the offense is worse than the D and sometimes the D is worse than the O.   I'd say the biggest thing was the turnovers committed by the O in yesterdays game.

[Jeremy Waldon]

23 hours ago, BProland85 said:

 

We need another star on this offense to go along with Hilton. It would go a long ways in opening up the offense. 

I think CAIN was on his way to be a great counter part to TY but will have to wait till next year to know for sure

[BProland85]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Waldon said:

I think CAIN was on his way to be a great counter part to TY but will have to wait till next year to know for sure

 

You can’t count on that though so Ballard still needs to bring in another potential star on offense. Preferably at WR or RB. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 10/14/2018 at 8:58 PM, Savage21 said:

Polian was able to draft a ton of great players during his time as Colts GM, but he failed to provide the Colts with a balanced team. If the Colts actually had a defense for a lot of those years, Peyton would've easily won multiple rings.

 

Ahh, but to have all stars on both sides of the ball is difficult (if not impossible) in the salary cap era (as it was designed that way for competitive balance).  So I took a look on the winningest team in any regular season decade stats.  let's look at Defensive points /gm surrendered and Offensive points scored by year-

 

2001     #31  30.4 /gm               Off= 25.8 (#2)
2002     #7   19.6 /gm               Off= 21.8 (17)
2003     #20  21.0 /gm               Off= 27.9 (#2)
2004     #19  21.9 /gm               off= 32.6 (#1)
2005     #2   15.4 /gm               off= 27.4 (#2)
2006     #23  22.5 /gm  (SB !!)      off= 26.7 (#2 tied)
2007     #1   16.4 /gm               off= 28.1 (#3)
2008     #7   18.6 /gm               off= 23.6 (#13)
2009     #8   19.2 /gm               off= 26.0 (#7)
2010     #23  24.2 /gm               off= 27.2 (#4)

 

this year?

 

2018  #30    30.0 /gm              off = 25.3 (#12)

 

The cost of the future HOF offense players meant less money available for star D players.  So a simpler D system was going to be implemented. Jim Mora, and Vic Fangio - (the real target here) were let go because that (Fangio's) style D works, but required very skilled vet type players the Colts just could no longer fit under the cap.  So Polian wanted a simpler D where (young inexpensive) players could be had easier, and they could learn the system faster, and perform in it earlier; at less cost.  Mora wouldn't fire Fangio, so Bill Polian let them both go. Right at that time, Tony Dungy became available. Rest is history.

 

So how could changes to the O and D be made to make it 'more balanced' ?

 

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 10/14/2018 at 5:02 PM, csmopar said:

Not entirely true. There were more than one that turned down larger contracts here to take less money elsewhere. 

 

I don’t think this has ever been proven with facts.     

[NewColtsFan]

On 10/14/2018 at 5:09 PM, SaturdayAllDay said:

Reportedly Rashaan Melvin and Ryan Jensen this year, as well as Dontari Poe last yr, just off the top of my head. 

I’m completely confused.

 

Most posters here think we didn’t make Melvin an offer at all.   Yet you think we made a bigger offer than the Raiders did and he turned down more to accept less?    I’d need a link.   My understanding is we asked him to shop around, get his best offer and let us see if we could beat it.   But Melvin didn’t do that.    He stiffed us and simply accepted the Raiders offer. 

 

I never saw a figure that we offered to Jensen.   Only that he left Indy without signing and signed with Tampa.  Florida has no state tax, always an advantage.   But I’ve never seen a number connected to the Colts.

 

As for Poe...   he reportedly wanted a 5-year deal.   We didn’t offer that and he signed a 1 or 2 year deal with Atlanta.  Is someone claiming we offered 5-years and he turned that down for a very short deal elsewhere?   Hard to believe.

 

Are there any links to support the idea that guys are turning down more  money from the the Colts to go elsewhere for less?   I’d love to see that...     thanks.

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 10/14/2018 at 5:21 PM, SaturdayAllDay said:

Poe -We were a 3-4 when we reportedly offered significantly more for Poe's services.

 

Melvin -We reportedly offered Melvin more guaranteed money than he took. Our offer was supposedly 10m vs the 6.5m he ended up taking. 

 

Jensen- just proved the point that money isnt everything. Jensen reportedly took less money so that he could play his prefered position. 

 

 

I dont know where you’re getting your info, but I’d love to see links that support this.   I think each claim is completely false.

[NewColtsFan]

On 10/14/2018 at 3:54 PM, csmopar said:

Yep. I'm also a believer that a lot of FA may have been turned off from here anyway with the unknown of a first year head coach, OC and DC and a franchise QB just returning from 18 months off.

 

hard to attract guys to the team under that umbrella. 

I don’t know why you think any of this?   Ballard literally said that he was taking a much different approach to free agency in 18 than he did in 17.   He said it before FA started.  

 

Said we wouldn’t be signing nearly as many free agents.   He was trying to lower expectations.    Somehow that message has been lost on some fans.   I don’t understand how this happened? 

[NewColtsFan]

On 10/14/2018 at 4:17 PM, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

So who's fault is it we lack playmakers AND talent on defense?

 

We've had 2 Drafts &  2 FA periods since Griggs left. Time is running out on blaming him for our 53 man roster.

 

The roster is being completely reworked.    Ballard was hired and announced a 3-year rebuild.   Irsay has signed off on that. 

 

Time may be running out for YOU,  but unless Irsay changes his mind, Ballard has plenty of time left.

 

And the reason it’s all taking so long is Grigson and Ballard’s vision for the franchise.

[Finball]

38 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

As for Poe...   he reportedly wanted a 5-year deal.   We didn’t offer that and he signed a 1 or 2 year deal with Atlanta.  Is someone claiming we offered 5-years and he turned that down for a very short deal elsewhere?   Hard to believe.

 

 

 

 

[SaturdayAllDay]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’m completely confused.

 

Most posters here think we didn’t make Melvin an offer at all.   Yet you think we made a bigger offer than the Raiders did and he turned down more to accept less?    I’d need a link.   My understanding is we asked him to shop around, get his best offer and let us see if we could beat it.   But Melvin didn’t do that.    He stiffed us and simply accepted the Raiders offer. 

 

I never saw a figure that we offered to Jensen.   Only that he left Indy without signing and signed with Tampa.  Florida has no state tax, always an advantage.   But I’ve never seen a number connected to the Colts.

 

As for Poe...   he reportedly wanted a 5-year deal.   We didn’t offer that and he signed a 1 or 2 year deal with Atlanta.  Is someone claiming we offered 5-years and he turned that down for a very short deal elsewhere?   Hard to believe.

 

Are there any links to support the idea that guys are turning down more  money from the the Colts to go elsewhere for less?   I’d love to see that...     thanks.

 

 

The tweet reported on Poe is already posted above. 

 

I do recall there being a tweet about Jensens decision being less about money and more about "fit", and ultimately choosing Tampa over us because we were committed to playing Kelly at Center (which was Jensens preferred position). That being said, I cant readily find it and have better uses of my time then finding a 6 month old tweet, especially when I cant recall who the tweet was from. Since Im not willing to put in the time to back this one up i dont really have a leg to stand on for this one. Consider this example stricken from the record!! 

[superrep1967]

On 10/14/2018 at 6:31 PM, love the shoe said:

Polian said this team was heading in the right direction but lacked playmakers like Marvin . Reg and Clark and Edge , we have to be patient , on the other hand he thinks the defense is improved but lacking talent also , man you guys below wanting peoples head aready with so many players hurt , I can guarantee you Rodgers wont be starting when he gets his players in here he wants , I just don't get all the fans that didn't see this season being like this after trying to clean Grigs mess up 

I could not agree more I've been saying this all along. 

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, Finball said:

 

 

Talks doesn’t mean we offered. 

 

It can just just as easily mean Poe  asked and the Colts said no.

 

Its near impossible to believe we offered 5-years and he went to Atlanta for 1-year.

 

[BloodyChamp]

Just beat the Bills  

[GoColts8818]

On 10/15/2018 at 12:26 PM, MPStack said:

Wasn’t it Polian, who thought it was a good idea not to try and go undefeated and rest the starters for a month in 2005?

I’m 2005 the Colts lost their perfect season to the Chargers and the starters played that full game.  

[MPStack]

10 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I’m 2005 the Colts lost their perfect season to the Chargers and the starters played that full game.  

You are correct! 

[hoosierhawk]

I am sure most will disagree with him but the CB wanted to start to build the locker room before he went out and started signing a bunch of FA before he knew how good his young guys were. we will have 3 picks this year in possible the top 45 picks and hopefully he can find 2-3 FA that will fit in.

He and Irsay said it will take 3 years but fans want it now. Grigson tried to shortcut the system and went out and signed a ton of FA and that failed miserable. FAs have to blend in well with the locker room or it doesn't work.

PS. Nelson was a great  pick.

 

 

 

[Finball]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Talks doesn’t mean we offered. 

 

It can just just as easily mean Poe  asked and the Colts said no.

 

Its near impossible to believe we offered 5-years and he went to Atlanta for 1-year.

 

 

That was in response to question 'no real offer from the Colts?'. Maybe we didn't offer 60M over 5yrs but the way it was phrased and we had him for a visit, it's near impossible to believe we didn't offer something like that. Just to turn around and give Hankins 30M, supposedly inferior player who had been on the market for a while.

 

Issue could've been guaranteed money, fit, team competitivness, willing to bet on himself in hopes of getting bigger deal (didn't work out too well).

 

Alshon Jeffery declined 4yr offer from the Vikings and bet on himself with 1 yr deal with the Eagles that same offseason. Worked for him.

 

[NewColtsFan]

9 hours ago, Finball said:

 

That was in response to question 'no real offer from the Colts?'. Maybe we didn't offer 60M over 5yrs but the way it was phrased and we had him for a visit, it's near impossible to believe we didn't offer something like that. Just to turn around and give Hankins 30M, supposedly inferior player who had been on the market for a while.

 

Issue could've been guaranteed money, fit, team competitivness, willing to bet on himself in hopes of getting bigger deal (didn't work out too well).

 

Alshon Jeffery declined 4yr offer from the Vikings and bet on himself with 1 yr deal with the Eagles that same offseason. Worked for him.

 

 

You think the Minesota Vikings,  with the combo of Adam Thelen and Shelton Diggs, who are both getting paid ALSO offered Alshon Jeffrey a 4-year deal?    The Vikings have salary cap issues.   I think the chances that kind of money was offered are right around slim and none.

 

Just as I think we offered 5-years to Dontari Poe....     Ballard, who came from KC, knows him better than other teams.    And Poe went to Atlanta on a 1-year deal.     We couldn't beat a 1-year deal?     If we wanted him,  we'd beat that easily.    That's why I think there's little to no chance we offered 5-years,  unless it was with virtually no guaranteed money,  and then,  what's the point?

 

[NewColtsFan]

21 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

 

The tweet reported on Poe is already posted above. 

 

I do recall there being a tweet about Jensens decision being less about money and more about "fit", and ultimately choosing Tampa over us because we were committed to playing Kelly at Center (which was Jensens preferred position). That being said, I cant readily find it and have better uses of my time then finding a 6 month old tweet, especially when I cant recall who the tweet was from. Since Im not willing to put in the time to back this one up i dont really have a leg to stand on for this one. Consider this example stricken from the record!! 

 

Wait a minute.....     hold EVERYTHING!!

 

The Jeremy Fowler tweet supports MY POSITION,  NOT YOURS!

 

My view is he went elsewhere for more.     You said we offered more and he turned us down for less.    That tweet does NOT SAY THAT.    It just says he ASKED FOR MORE.     It doesn't say we OFFERED MORE.

 

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You think the Minesota Vikings,  with the combo of Adam Thelen and Shelton Diggs, who are both getting paid ALSO offered Alshon Jeffrey a 4-year deal?    The Vikings have salary cap issues.   I think the chances that kind of money was offered are right around slim and none.

 

Just as I think we offered 5-years to Dontari Poe....     Ballard, who came from KC, knows him better than other teams.    And Poe went to Atlanta on a 1-year deal.     We couldn't beat a 1-year deal?     If we wanted him,  we'd beat that easily.    That's why I think there's little to no chance we offered 5-years,  unless it was with virtually no guaranteed money,  and then,  what's the point?

 

I bet the vikes wish they could switch diggs and thielens contracts.   Diggs is under performing and thielen is killing it

[SaturdayAllDay]

31 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Wait a minute.....     hold EVERYTHING!!

 

The Jeremy Fowler tweet supports MY POSITION,  NOT YOURS!

 

My view is he went elsewhere for more.     You said we offered more and he turned us down for less.    That tweet does NOT SAY THAT.    It just says he ASKED FOR MORE.     It doesn't say we OFFERED MORE.

 

 

He refused to sign with us unless we gave him the higher number he wanted, but he will play elsewhere for less. How is that not accepting less to play elsewhere? What we did or did not offer is regardless as his price tag to play here was higher than it was to play elsewhere. Which is also why Melvin and his agent didnt bother giving Ballard a chance to match any offer given to him. 

 

I could understand your point of view if Melvin went a few weeks into free agency and begrudgingly took what was the best offer he was going to get, but he signed a couple days into free agency when teams were clearly still looking for CB help. It very much seems like he had a number he would take to play for us, and a lower number he would take to play for Oakland. 

[NewColtsFan]

10 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

 

He refused to sign with us unless we gave him the higher number he wanted, but he will play elsewhere for less. How is that not accepting less to play elsewhere? What we did or did not offer is regardless as his price tag to play here was higher than it was to play elsewhere. Which is also why Melvin and his agent didnt bother giving Ballard a chance to match any offer given to him. 

 

I could understand your point of view if Melvin went a few weeks into free agency and begrudgingly took what was the best offer he was going to get, but he signed a couple days into free agency when teams were clearly still looking for CB help. It very much seems like he had a number he would take to play for us, and a lower number he would take to play for Oakland. 

 

The part I put into bold is where we disagree.     I don't see any proof that Melvin signed with the Raiders for less than we offered.     No evidence.

 

The best I can piece together is we either made Melvin no offer, or a low offer and asked him to shop around for his best offer and bring it back to the Colts to see if we'd meet or beat it.

 

Insulted,  Melvin got his best offer from the Raiders,  and signed it.    He did not even give the Colts a chance to meet or beat.  

 

But that's NOT THE SAME as playing elsewhere for less.    Not even close.    I see no evidence that the Raiders weren't his best offer and he simply took it.

 

I don't know how you arrived that he got a better offer from the Colts and accepted less from the Raiders?

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Here's the story as I remember it, pieces from the IndyStar and 1070 theFan articles:

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Even though the Colts wanted to bring Melvin back in 2018, they knew the market would be quite high after such an impressive contract year. Once that market got too high for their liking, Melvin's chances of coming back to the Colts were gone.

 

When Melvin signed with mega agent Drew Rosenhaus last fall, seeking out a major pay day was inevitable for a guy who had yet to hit on a significant contract.

 

Back at the Combine, Chris Ballard explained how the Colts viewed Melvin heading into free agency. “Would we like to get Melvin back? Yes,” Ballard said a few weeks back. “Will we for sure? We’ll see what the market spits out.”

 

The Colts had been in talks with Melvin prior to the start of the signing period, but General Manager Chris Ballard said he told Melvin’s agent to shop his services, establish a market, then come back to the table.

 

It’s not clear whether Melvin and agent Drew Rosenhaus actually gave the Colts a chance to match, though Melvin was said to be originally seeking a deal from Indianapolis in excess of that amount, likely for multiple years. In any case, if it seems the Colts didn't exactly bend over backward to keep Melvin, it's because they didn't. And it's not because of talent. The reason, a source explained, is twofold.

 

Ballard wants his young players to play and develop under Frank Reich’s new coaching staff, so this move is in keeping with those plans.

 

The other issue at play with Melvin was scheme fit. His physical, man-to-man coverage skills are less valuable in the Colts' new defensive scheme, a source said, and that influenced how much the Colts would be willing to pay.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

There you have it.

[Finball]

14 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You think the Minesota Vikings,  with the combo of Adam Thelen and Shelton Diggs, who are both getting paid ALSO offered Alshon Jeffrey a 4-year deal?    The Vikings have salary cap issues.   I think the chances that kind of money was offered are right around slim and none.

 

Just as I think we offered 5-years to Dontari Poe....     Ballard, who came from KC, knows him better than other teams.    And Poe went to Atlanta on a 1-year deal.     We couldn't beat a 1-year deal?     If we wanted him,  we'd beat that easily.    That's why I think there's little to no chance we offered 5-years,  unless it was with virtually no guaranteed money,  and then,  what's the point?

 

 

RE: Vikes and Jeffery:

 

 

Jeffery actually confirmed that the Vikings were after him.

 

Diggs and Thielen were paid less than 7.5 M last year, combined. Thielen was on 1st year of 4yr 19M deal and Diggs on 3rd year of his rookie deal. I recalled reading 4 years but that might have been wrong but it was much better offer than what he got from the Eagles.

 

Ballard knowing Poe may have had zero influence on Poe's decision. It might have been just 2 years guaranteed or 20-25M and Poe wanted a lot more.

 

JLC also said this, FWIW