Khalil Mack to the Bears

[oldunclemark]

6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

They didn't give up a first.   They swapped firsts. The bears used the first on trubisky

About 6 years 130 million

'J'.....they swapped firsts and the first because Trubisky.  Just like KC did.

KC swapped 2 No.1s for the right to get Mahomes….

 

Just like the Bears swapped two firsts for Mack..

Mack was a No.1 choice…..and even better..he's a No.1 who became and is a star..

……..the Bears gave up two question matk future players

..for a proven known star who starts in week one.....

 

..and forget the money...they STILL have good cap space after this deal

I dont know how its bad for them. I really don't.

Edited September 1, 2018 by oldunclemark

[aaron11]

i would probably do that trade

 

hooker could be great, but his injuries scare me and he still has a lot to work on too

 

we would have to lean on smith if we lost nelson 

 

 

[oldunclemark]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i would probably do that trade

 

hooker could be great, but his injuries scare me and he still has a lot to work on too

 

we would have to lean on smith if we lost nelson 

 

 

agreed..we're assuming that Nelson and Hooker become Pro Bowlers

Edited September 1, 2018 by oldunclemark

[jvan1973]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

'J'.....they swapped firsts and the first because Trubisky.  Just like KC did.

KC swapped 2 No.1s for the right to get Mahomes….

 

Just like the Bears swapped two firsts for Mack..

Mack was a No.1 choice…..and even better..he's a No.1 who became and is a star..

……..the Bears gave up two question matk future players

..for a proven known star who starts in week one.....

 

..and they STILL have good cap space after this deal

I dont know how its bad for them

The bears didn't give up a first.   They gave up 2 thirds and a fourth to move up.   They didn't lose a first.   

[Yoshinator]

Raiders definitely win the deal on their end. They weren't signing Mack, they were still far apart, and they were losing him next year or beginning to pay franchise tags to keep him at an insanely high amount. 2 firsts and a player that will probably be a decent starter type (guessing on defense), is very solid to drop a 27 year old Mack and his contract on the Bears. The pressure is on the Bears now to win the SB in a 5 year window, and they will be without two 1sts and a 2nd in the next two years as well. They put themselves in a tough situation.

 

Now Gruden can build the team in his image, and sign whatever FA's he wants from now on. Win/win Raiders.

[oldunclemark]

6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

The bears didn't give up a first.   They gave up 2 thirds and a fourth to move up.   They didn't lose a first.   

..and the Bears didn't 'lose' two firsts like you said...….because Mack was a 1st himself...

..and KC DID lose a 1st...They sent out 2017 and 2018 for the right to get Mahomes. who is, at best, unproven.....

 

Mack is a No. 1 pick....and one who panned out to an all-NFL degree..right?

All-pros (even at high price tags) are much more valuable than No. 1 draft choices...agreed?

 

[jvan1973]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

..and the Bears didn't 'lose' two firsts...….because Mack was a 1st himself...see?

..and KC DID lose a 1st...They sent out 2017 and 2018 for the right to get Mahomes. who is, at best, unproven.....

 

Mack is a No. 1 pick....and one who panned out to an all-NFL degree..right?

No waiting on him to prove himself...and hes in his prime

That's why its a good deal... 

Except for that 130 million dollar contract.   They won't be going to a Superbowl unless Trubisky drastically improves.   They barely played him in the preseason..  

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

..and the Bears didn't 'lose' two firsts like you said...….because Mack was a 1st himself...

..and KC DID lose a 1st...They sent out 2017 and 2018 for the right to get Mahomes. who is, at best, unproven.....

 

Mack is a No. 1 pick....and one who panned out to an all-NFL degree..right?

All-pros (even at high price tags) are much more valuable than No. 1 draft choices...agreed?

 

They did lose 2 Ones since Mack “was” a one not is a one

[oldunclemark]

Happiest guy in the world is a fellow named Vic Fangio

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

Happiest guy in the world is a fellow named Vic Fangio

Not if MT can’t grasp Nagy’s O

[Coltsman1788]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

Bears wont finish last now..That defense is real

They trying to resurrect that Monsters of the Midway mystique. Their defense looks much better than ours.  They just need their quarterback to develop. 

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

One thing we can all agree on is: This does change things for Oakland and the Bears

Bears are not very good...will still be behind GB and Min. Now they have given up high draft picks for the next couple years and can’t get better long term through the draft. Oakland is even further away from being good...it changes who is on the teams but neither will compete for anything. I think both teams are at least 3 years away from the playoffs. In the long run it will come down to what each GM does with the trade...but no...this year it changes nothing and I don’t think it will for a couple years more still. If a difference maker went to a good team it would be interesting but when two bad teams trade...it just means they swap being bad.

[Colts_Fan12]

I agree we shouldnt have paid the price to trade for him since we are forever away from contending. However you guys that think the contract he will get is something you never want the colts to pay what do you want us to do if we finally draft a pass rusher that is great and he needs that much to re-sign with us you guys gonna just wanna let him walk? Many of our fans seem to think superstar talents play for peanuts and that's not the case 

[Coltsman1788]

18 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Raiders definitely win the deal on their end. They weren't signing Mack, they were still far apart, and they were losing him next year or beginning to pay franchise tags to keep him at an insanely high amount. 2 firsts and a player that will probably be a decent starter type (guessing on defense), is very solid to drop a 27 year old Mack and his contract on the Bears. The pressure is on the Bears now to win the SB in a 5 year window, and they will be without two 1sts and a 2nd in the next two years as well. They put themselves in a tough situation.

 

Now Gruden can build the team in his image, and sign whatever FA's he wants from now on. Win/win Raiders.

We saw what happened to the Bucs when that defense was conformed to Gruden's image.  Raiders defense will be swirling around the toilet soon enough.

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

We saw what happened to the Bucs when that defense was conformed to Gruden's image.  Raiders defense will be swirling around the toilet soon enough.

And his offense is about as bad. They lack talent across the board. He deserved the money because it’s a horrible team. He is tearing it down and now has picks to build it back...plus they don’t have the money moving into a new stadium..but in a couple years they can have a young exciting team if they draft well. Bears were building something interesting and then just stopped mid build and swung for the fences...I don’t get it. 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Coltsman1788 said:

We saw what happened to the Bucs when that defense was conformed to Gruden's image.  Raiders defense will be swirling around the toilet soon enough.

Possibly, but Gruden's relationship with Mack was beyond ruined at this point. They may or may not do anything with those extra 1st rounders and the mystery player, but at least Gruden gets a chance to draft whomever he wants now for the next two years. No excuses if they don't start improving relatively quickly.

 

The reason I think the Bears lose this trade is that they are going for it a bit too quickly. Yes, you can't determine when a big event like Mack being available is going to happen, but Trubisky is still raw, a lot of the recent draftees are still getting acclimated to the game, and you won't have a 1st or 2nd round pick in 2019, and a 1st in 2020. Everything has to go exactly right for this to work. Don't forget who is in their division. Their window is Rodgers remaining window, and the Vikings window as well. This is bad timing for the Bears IMO. I would of preferred for them to build the team for a couple more years, have Trubisky become good, then go for it. Big risk.

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I agree we shouldnt have paid the price to trade for him since we are forever away from contending. However you guys that think the contract he will get is something you never want the colts to pay what do you want us to do if we finally draft a pass rusher that is great and he needs that much to re-sign with us you guys gonna just wanna let him walk? Many of our fans seem to think superstar talents play for peanuts and that's not the case 

If it is our own player,  you aren't giving up 2 firsts.   If the colts signed Mack as a free agent for 6 and 130 and I would be happy with that

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

And his offense is about as bad. They lack talent across the board. He deserved the money because it’s a horrible team. He is tearing it down and now has picks to build it back...plus they don’t have the money moving into a new stadium..but in a couple years they can have a young exciting team if they draft well. Bears were building something interesting and then just stopped mid build and swung for the fences...I don’t get it. 

Bingo. The Bears just stunted their growth and traded their future. Now they have to hope what they currently have can get them over the finish line in a limited amount of time.

[PrincetonTiger]

7 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

We saw what happened to the Bucs when that defense was conformed to Gruden's image.  Raiders defense will be swirling around the toilet soon enough.

Got the 53+ guys a ring

 

     Gruden suffered from McKay going to Atlanta and the age of Derrick Brooks et. al

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Got the 53+ guys a ring

 

     Gruden suffered from McKay going to Atlanta and the age of Derrick Brooks et. al

I think Dungy would have won them a SB as well if they stayed the course. But that team was at its peak...there definitely wasn’t going to see that window continue for a lot longer. Plus once you win a SB suddenly all your players get a lot more expensive to keep. Gruden will have his work cut out for him for sure this time. If he wins in Oakland...he will get a lot more credit for sure.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, dgambill said:

I think Dungy would have won them a SB as well if they stayed the course. But that team was at its peak...there definitely wasn’t going to see that window continue for a lot longer. Plus once you win a SB suddenly all your players get a lot more expensive to keep. Gruden will have his work cut out for him for sure this time. If he wins in Oakland...he will get a lot more credit for sure.

Agreed He brought some O pieces to TB in ala Indiana native Ken Dilger

 

   

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Possibly short term but long? We would still need help.  Would you trade Quenton Nelson and Malik Hooker for Mack today?  These types are our future #1's...  that we forfeit to get Mack.

 

Golly, I hated the trade the Bears made.  But if you say it like that, it looks a lot better.

 

So we would have Smith at LG and Slauson at RG. 

 

And Farley at FS with Mack as a pass rusher.

 

That's not too bad really.  But I don't like the cap hit for Mack.

[dgambill]

I see why Oakland made the move...I just think the Bears gave up on their plan and sold out. They were making good strides with the current plan..can they execute this new one and make it work...time will tell but I think it wasn’t the right time for the move for them. It speeds up the time frame for their build but I don’t think they are ready at qb nor wr. Plus they already have two playoff caliber teams in their division..and Detroit is arguably just as good. I think they are giving up top 10 picks next two years...that’s a big investment!

[PrincetonTiger]

Friendly reminder from TigerTown   

  To be a good executive a GM needs a strong coach and visa versa 

[Coltsman1788]

13 minutes ago, dgambill said:

And his offense is about as bad. They lack talent across the board. He deserved the money because it’s a horrible team. He is tearing it down and now has picks to build it back...plus they don’t have the money moving into a new stadium..but in a couple years they can have a young exciting team if they draft well. Bears were building something interesting and then just stopped mid build and swung for the fences...I don’t get it. 

No way you can convince me that Gruden deserved that crazy amount of money he got from the Raiders.  Highway robbery man.  But the Raiders were stupid enough to give it to him.  lol  Gruden is way over rated and the Raiders will regret that hire  soon enough. 

[PrincetonTiger]

7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I see why Oakland made the move...I just think the Bears gave up on their plan and sold out. They were making good strides with the current plan..can they execute this new one and make it work...time will tell but I think it wasn’t the right time for the move for them. It speeds up the time frame for their build but I don’t think they are ready at qb nor wr. Plus they already have two playoff caliber teams in their division..and Detroit is arguably just as good. I think they are giving up top 10 picks next two years...that’s a big investment!

Agreed that is why I had issues with the Colts making the trade

[dgambill]

6 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

No way you can convince me that Gruden deserved that crazy amount of money he got from the Raiders.  Highway robbery man.  But the Raiders were stupid enough to give it to him.  lol  Gruden is way over rated and the Raiders will regret that hire  soon enough. 

Reports are it wasn’t 100 million...not sure exactly how much but many have said that was exaggerated. My only point is he will have earned it if he turns that team into a playoff team in a couple years.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Reports are it wasn’t 100 million...not sure exactly how much but many have said that was exaggerated. My only point is he will have earned it if he turns that team into a playoff team in a couple years.

With the age of PR in LA and JE running things in Den. they might get there soon still won’t pass KC though

[Coltsman1788]

Just now, dgambill said:

Reports are it wasn’t 100 million...not sure exactly how much but many have said that was exaggerated. My only point is he will have earned it if he turns that team into a playoff team in a couple years.

Well they were a playoff team just a couple of seasons ago.  They had a tough year last year in Carr's bounce back year after his injury.  Trading Mack set them further back.  They could have contended in the depleted AFC West.  Now they HAVE to rebuild that D and I don't trust that Gruden is the right man for that task given his past history.

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Agreed that is why I had issues with the Colts making the trade

I would have offered our two second rd picks plus Simon or perhaps a couple young DEs but no way I’m giving up two firsts plus more. The only difference with the Colts is our qb is SB caliber ready. The rest of the team isn’t. I think a more interesting trade would be would we say trade TY for a couple picks like a first and 3rd or something like that given how far we might be from competing for a SB and he might be past his prime by that time.

[dgambill]

Interestingly this move may end up allowing Gruden to land Bosa in the draft who may even end up being a better long term fit.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

If it is our own player,  you aren't giving up 2 firsts.   If the colts signed Mack as a free agent for 6 and 130 and I would be happy with that

I know I'm just saying some people just see the numbers of the contact and they dont wanna pay it. I agree I'm not giving up the picks either since we are not gonna be a contender for a few years. If we were better I'd prolly do that deal since imo mack is one of the top 3 best players on D in the nfl. I just find the people that dont wanna pay superstars money funny cause they seem to think they will play for nothing.

[BloodyChamp]

In this rare case I say it's a good move by the Bears assuming he's motivated which surely they covered. They've been trying to build an offense going back to the Cutler trade and it just doesn't happen in Chicago. They've had talent on defense but always had to play behind against Stafford, Rodgers, AP etc over the years. So go ahead and add the best guy out there since he's available and since they can afford it. Then run the dang ball until that quits working then throw it and don't screw it up like the Bears did theast time they had an offense, the Jags on 1 of Bortles good days etc.

[rock8591]

Where he will go to eat gummy humans.

[ColtsBlueFL]

5 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Since they locked the other thread I was right when I said the Raiders would trade Mack.  Most everyone said I was wrong.  I guess not.  We were in the hunt but Ballard failed to get it done.  It looks like he tried but he failed like I thought he would.  This was our chance to fix our ER problem.  Now it's back to wishing and hoping we find the right guy in the draft.  A real missed opportunity.  I would not want to be in his shoes when he has to explain to Irsay how he got away.  For his sake it has to be a boatload of picks. 

 

There was a current GM of an NFL that anonymously reported yesterday that the smart bet was Mack would stay a Raider.  Why, likely he knew the cost: which seems to now be 2 first round draft picks Plus something more. I guess he felt it just wouldn't get done, but he also said if it does, it would be either the Bears or Jets.  Colts were not on his list.

 

Oh, Not a single Colt Fan on this forum was in favor of giving up 2 first round picks (plus more maybe, before the Bears got a deal done). Not a one. 

 

Feel free to find one and post the post link.

 

Ryan Pace felt OK about it so it might get finished today.

 

5 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

We really should have two threads.  One that just tracks the cuts and another to discuss them.

 

 

Yes, there is the player info thread, and PT created a discussion thread.  Would be nice if chat about the cuts would be on the discussion thread and keep the info thread cleaner.

[BloodyChamp]

6 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

You can't have 2 players eating up over 40 million in cap space.   Stumbling into the playoffs doesn't put you on the cusp.  Did anyone think the bills had a chance to win the Superbowl last year? Does anyone think they have a chance this year? The colts are at least 2 years away.   So,   2020 is very important,  whether you care about it or not.   

 

Another dumb move by the bears

 

If I posted this you would list every team and it's 2 players that they had making that much in cap space to try and correct the first part. Then you would list the 2007 Giants to correct the second part as if I were speaking literally about everything that's ever happened. See how annoying it is now. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

 

[PeterBowman]

4 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Damn glad Colts didn't do that.

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 hours ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Hope Walker ends up on the practice squad, like what I saw from him this pre season. Much improved from last year.

 

I hope so too.  He can run the scout team.  And yes, I preferred him over Kaaya.

[King Colt]

6 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

They trying to resurrect that Monsters of the Midway mystique. Their defense looks much better than ours.  They just need their quarterback to develop. 

Peyton Manning was the hideous in his first year. The Bears infamous ritual of the best linebackers will rise again. Mack and Smith will soon have a nickname for their presence. Can't wait! GO BEARS!!!!!