Upset With Irsay [Merge]

[UndecidedFrog]

I think people need to read between the lines a bit. It occurred to me that, assuming that irsay and manning are both telling the truth, there is a major piece missing from what was discussed in the press conference, and the proof of this may be that both sides are still at peace at face value for the discussion:

Peyton is simply not at nfl form at this time.

Peyton thinks he can recover, irsay (and probably those advising him such as the team neurosgeon feuer) thinks he cannot.

Feuer has the power to sway this... when I lived in indy I remember feuer once mentioning how he nixed drafting a very promising tight end due to cervical issues from the mri done at the combine. He was right by the way.

I believe that irsay really would keep manning... he said he would keep him if he can play. I believe the "not about money" comment, as they gave him this killer contract even after he had 2 surgeries. Manning clearly wants to play football for the colts. So the only conclusion I can reach is that irsay sadly doesn't think he can get the full peyton back.

I would bet money they both respectfully disagree on peyton returning, so agreed to not voice medical concerns so peyton could at least have the fair opportunity to have teams court him. Irsay is probably taking a huge PR slap in the face by not publicly explaining his health concerns for Manning, but respects manning this much that irsay allows himself to look like the bad guy by not burning manning. I'll bet they agreed to this conclusion and irsay simply promised to keep mum on the health concerns.

Sure the march 8 money forced an early conclusion to this problem, but unless somebody is lying here what else makes sense?

Well reasoned and thought out.

However, if PM is not yet NFL-ready, wouldn't his new team, during their due diligence, find out when he worked out for them prior to finalizing a contract?

Once that got out to the news, the PR slap will reverse course.

[jjcolts]

Well reasoned and thought out.

However, if PM is not yet NFL-ready, wouldn't his new team, during their due diligence, find out when he worked out for them prior to finalizing a contract?

Once that got out to the news, the PR slap will reverse course.

Also, I don't think it is a secret that PM is not healthy...thus any team willing to take him knows this. Everytalk in the media is saying "if" Peyton is healthy. I don't think they are fooling anyone about his health.

[wegotchucky]

People will always forget that it was Irsay that really turned this franchise around. When his father passed away he was given the reigns, and he truly has been one of, if not the best owner period. I stand behind you Jim and the horseshoe.

[Warhorse]

I think people need to read between the lines a bit. It occurred to me that, assuming that irsay and manning are both telling the truth, there is a major piece missing from what was discussed in the press conference, and the proof of this may be that both sides are still at peace at face value for the discussion:

Peyton is simply not at nfl form at this time.

Peyton thinks he can recover, irsay (and probably those advising him such as the team neurosgeon feuer) thinks he cannot.

Feuer has the power to sway this... when I lived in indy I remember feuer once mentioning how he nixed drafting a very promising tight end due to cervical issues from the mri done at the combine. He was right by the way.

I believe that irsay really would keep manning... he said he would keep him if he can play. I believe the "not about money" comment, as they gave him this killer contract even after he had 2 surgeries. Manning clearly wants to play football for the colts. So the only conclusion I can reach is that irsay sadly doesn't think he can get the full peyton back.

I would bet money they both respectfully disagree on peyton returning, so agreed to not voice medical concerns so peyton could at least have the fair opportunity to have teams court him. Irsay is probably taking a huge PR slap in the face by not publicly explaining his health concerns for Manning, but respects manning this much that irsay allows himself to look like the bad guy by not burning manning. I'll bet they agreed to this conclusion and irsay simply promised to keep mum on the health concerns.

Sure the march 8 money forced an early conclusion to this problem, but unless somebody is lying here what else makes sense?

Extremely rational and without blame and retribution. I salute you. The one thing I would add is Irsays hope for PM that he goes to a team with a killer oline and skill players so he can get another SB before he retires.

[Ohio Colt]

So disappointed in Irsay. Peyton Manning, Dungy and Polian made the Colts a successful team with their leadership, commitment and integrity. Irsay is disloyal, impulsive and incompetent. What if Irsay were more like John Mara, who stood by his coach when fans called for his firing? See how karma works, Irsay. . .Mara was not influenced by his fans, but stuck by his coach and what did their team do? Oh, they won the Super Bowl. He has class, loyalty, integrity. Only time will tell. Peyton will continue to succeed and I hope he has the opportunity to win another Super Bowl and beat Irsay any chance he's given.

“If you start making too many changes and getting impulsive, it just doesn’t work,” Mara said. “Put it this way: With Tom, I’m glad we let things play out.

http://www.nytimes.c...?pagewanted=all

eh. Irsay paid payton 26 million last year for nothing. he didnt owe him anything more.

[Portage Coltfans]

Reggie Wayne is an average WR who had the luck to work with the greatest. He will not be missed.

so whats your opinion of marvin?

[braveheartcolt]

so whats your opinion of marvin?

He was really before my time. If you think I'm going to 'gush' about Marvin, so you can then throw out Reggie's better "Average Yards per Catch" stat, for instance, then you have failed.

[Tim Neloff]

Yes, I tried explaining this to my son today. Peyton is his hero. He saw Peyton cry on TV. Out of the words of a kid, "How could Mr. Irsay just throw him away like that? What about respect, Mom? You told me that the Colts are all about respect." Then he storms off in tears.

I was embarrassed to call myself a Colts fan at that point. Truly embarrassed. This is NOT the organization I thought I loved.

People want to talk about loyalty and that "real" fans will support their team. Yeah, well loyalty is a 2-way street.

My 9 year old woudn't even come out of his room that night. He asked if he goes to the NFL with they just throw him away too? Way to go JIM!

[Steve Waugh]

eh. Irsay paid payton 26 million last year for nothing. he didnt owe him anything more.

For nothing?.

Stop saying that. Apply some common sense.

Manning by not playing helped Colts draft No 1 Pick. So you have to thank him in a way.

Most importantly, any team who needs a QB will pay 26 million guaranteed money to get Andrew Luck.

In otherwords, with that 26 millions we got Andrew Luck.

On the owing part, Irsay can never repay what Manning did to Colts ( 230 millions more market value from 1998 to now ). Not even including what he did to the city ( Stadium, hotels, hospitals, intangibles, morale of people etc ).

Get your facts before throwing random statements.

[Tim Neloff]

Reggie Wayne is an average WR who had the luck to work with the greatest. He will not be missed.

Ummm Wayne is widely regarded in the top 25-30 recievers of all time. I'm sorry but anyone who says he's an average WR has either never played the game or really sucked at it if they did. Now on the other hand comparing him to Harrison is just plain dumb. Now you're talking about the the #3 Receiver of all time behind Moss and Rice.

[UndecidedFrog]

For nothing?.

Stop saying that. Apply some common sense.

Manning by not playing helped Colts draft No 1 Pick. So you have to thank him in a way.

Most importantly, any team who needs a QB will pay 26 million guaranteed money to get Andrew Luck.

In otherwords, with that 26 millions we got Andrew Luck.

On the owing part, Irsay can never repay what Manning did to Colts ( 230 millions more market value from 1998 to now ). Not even including what he did to the city ( Stadium, hotels, hospitals, intangibles, morale of people etc ).

Get your facts before throwing random statements.

If the Colts did not sign the contract with PM, and did not pay the $26.4MM last year, wouldn't the Colts still be 2-14, and get the #1 overall pick?

[nsurg]

Well reasoned and thought out.

However, if PM is not yet NFL-ready, wouldn't his new team, during their due diligence, find out when he worked out for them prior to finalizing a contract?

Once that got out to the news, the PR slap will reverse course.

Agreed. Everyone will see he is is not now nfl ready, but teams and doctors will disagree on his prognosis. A bidding war could begin and one of those teams that banks on terms like "upside" will give a contract with heavy incentive. The colts see their whole team as a project right now, and i think pm and irsay both feel that way. Irsay also had more of a financial gamble with the proposed contract than a new team would with a fresh contract, and pm and irsay probably didn't see any point in an insulting contract restructure with a building team and a hot new qb with a potential for a power struggle. Manning will work his tail off and try to play. I predict he will see the field, but I just can't figure if he will play on a high level again. I sure hope he does. My guess is both pm and irsay agreed on this outcome after laying their cards out, and they are both sad about it. Didn't that clip from irsay's car at the airport look like the awkward moments after a mutual dating breakup?

[braveheartcolt]

Ummm Wayne is widely regarded in the top 25-30 recievers of all time. I'm sorry but anyone who says he's an average WR has either never played the game or really sucked at it if they did. Now on the other hand comparing him to Harrison is just plain dumb. Now you're talking about the the #3 Receiver of all time behind Moss and Rice.

Did I say he has always been average? He is on the decline, and is now average.

[UndecidedFrog]

Agreed. Everyone will see he is is not now nfl ready, but teams and doctors will disagree on his prognosis. A bidding war could begin and one of those teams that banks on terms like "upside" will give a contract with heavy incentive. The colts see their whole team as a project right now, and i think pm and irsay both feel that way. Irsay also had more of a financial gamble with the proposed contract than a new team would with a fresh contract, and pm and irsay probably didn't see any point in an insulting contract restructure with a building team and a hot new qb with a potential for a power struggle. Manning will work his tail off and try to play. I predict he will see the field, but I just can't figure if he will play on a high level again. I sure hope he does. My guess is both pm and irsay agreed on this outcome after laying their cards out, and they are both sad about it. Didn't that clip from irsay's car at the airport look like the awkward moments after a mutual dating breakup?

If PM does not play at a high level again, I pity the new team that picks him up. In this, I am assuming that the team will not obtain a quality QB2 for the same reasons that the Colts, during the PM era, did not do so.

[Fireman818]

I just want to say I am tired of so called, "Colts Fans" calling other fans, not true loyal Colts fans. If your a fan of one player or numerous players your a fan. Everyone has there reasons for why they are Colts fans and it's not for one person to say what you have to be or do to be a fan. No matter if you've been a fan for 1 year or 30, your a fan. No matter if you go to the games or stay home and watch on tv. Some of you so called Colts fan diehards should be ashamed of yourselves and are nothing more than hipocrits.

Peyton Manning was the greatest player to ever put on a Colts jersey. He did more for this franchise and this City than probable anyone has in the history of the league. I know he helped build the NFL to the level it is today. It's only logical that people are invested and they gave there hearts to support this team because they believed in loyality, respect and character and all the great things Peyton Manning brought into our lives. You can't just replace that from the hearts and minds of your fanbase. In life there are things that are just known to be right things to do and keeping Manning was one of those things when it comes to sports and fan support.

I've been a Colts fan for 27 years so I have seen and been through a lot. I was a fan before Manning came but I was also loyal to the team. I supported them in the bad and the good years. I have sacrificed family and friendship to support my Colts. I have made huge financial sacrifices and have only missed three home games in 18 years with 2 of those coming this year. I'm tired of all the ^cowpatties^. Time will tell but I think Irsay has made the biggest mistake of his life and will forever be reminded of his this business decision. He won't be remembered for winning the Super Bowl, as an owner, but for being the guy that released Peyton Manning, the face of his franchise and the league for several years. In sports you strive to put yourself in a situation to succeed and by doing this he has only put himself in a situation to fail. By releasing Manning he has divided his fanbase, he has showed dishonesty in the way he handled the entire situation and he has put all his hope into one player bringing his franchise back to glory. That isn't a situation to succeed but a situation to fail.

Being a true Colts fan goes way beyond just supporting the organization and it's decision's without doubt but also standing up and voicing your disgust when you feel wronged. I think the majority of the fan base is with me here. They feel cheated, and unappreciated as a voice. You can only invest your heart and soul into something for so long before you become numb to everything and it no longer becomes as important in your life. To all Colts fans, I'm with ya, I'm hurt, I'm doubting my support, I'm asking myself "why" anymore but only you can say weather you want to support this team anymore. I loved Peyton Manning and I never thought he would be released. I've thought about selling my season ticket's and just staying home because of my anger and hatred of Mr. Irsay for doing this. I don't know if I want to support Irsay and this franchise anymore but only time will heal my feelings and only I can make that choice. It irks me that any Colts fan can call someone else a none fan because were all fans for different reason's.

The next time the, so called true Colts fans, can't watch the Colts on TV because the games are blacked out, or we have suffered through numerous season's of losing, or the downtown tailgating isn't what it once was and we are no longer a team with an identity and a hope of winning, let alone making the playoff's, I think you'll remember this day. The day the heart and soul of the Colts franchise was broken by the mismanagement of one person. Mr. Irsay, hire someone to run your team don't try and do it like you did prior to Pollian and Manning because it didn't work out very well. Sad, Sad days! Everytime Manning took the field we all believed we had a chance to win, how do we feel now????????????????????

[ColtsBlueFL]

Agreed. Everyone will see he is is not now nfl ready, but teams and doctors will disagree on his prognosis. A bidding war could begin and one of those teams that banks on terms like "upside" will give a contract with heavy incentive. The colts see their whole team as a project right now, and i think pm and irsay both feel that way. Irsay also had more of a financial gamble with the proposed contract than a new team would with a fresh contract, and pm and irsay probably didn't see any point in an insulting contract restructure with a building team and a hot new qb with a potential for a power struggle. Manning will work his tail off and try to play. I predict he will see the field, but I just can't figure if he will play on a high level again. I sure hope he does. My guess is both pm and irsay agreed on this outcome after laying their cards out, and they are both sad about it. Didn't that clip from irsay's car at the airport look like the awkward moments after a mutual dating breakup?

Good points. Because of the upside, and Peyton's history, I feel he could still command a decent amount of guaranteed money. Incentives will be layered on top. Teams that insist on an essentially incentive deal only will likely drop out of the picture. OTOH, it has to be about winning a SB for Peyton. That could derail the money trumps team bidding issues. And, if he wishes Wayne (or even Saturday!) to follow, he'll have to give in on even less $$ to make room for his companions. Interesting times ahead for our departed GOAT.

[Steve Waugh]

If the Colts did not sign the contract with PM, and did not pay the $26.4MM last year, wouldn't the Colts still be 2-14, and get the #1 overall pick?

Doesnt matter.

Point of discussion is, it was said "Irsay Paid 26 for nothing".

My answer is for the bold character.

[UndecidedFrog]

Doesnt matter.

Point of discussion is, it was said "Irsay Paid 26 for nothing".

My answer is for the bold character.

It does matter, your answer suggested that the $26.4MM was paid for the #1 overall pick. I showed you that was not the case. If the Colts had not paid the money, the team would still be 2-14, and have the #1 overall pick.

The previous poster suggested that the $26.4MM was paid to PM, and it produced nothing. I am inclined to agree, since PM did not play one single down last season.

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Reggie has been catching from Manning recently in Miami. He's lobbying hard for both he and Manning to go to Miami together. Don't think he'd be doing that if he sensed that Peyton wasn't going to be NFL ready.

[Steve Waugh]

It does matter, your answer suggested that the $26.4MM was paid for the #1 overall pick. I showed you that was not the case. If the Colts had not paid the money, the team would still be 2-14, and have the #1 overall pick.

The previous poster suggested that the $26.4MM was paid to PM, and it produced nothing. I am inclined to agree, since PM did not play one single down last season.

Why did Colts pay 26 million then?. No one stopped Irsay from cutting him last year?. Oh thats right, there was a hope of saving the team later and keeping the fan base and other teams.

And my answer didnt suggest that. You can flip flop this as much as you want, Colts were 2-14 last year coz of one guy - Peyton.

And the fact that you agree to the poster saying Peyton was paid for nothing, conveniently ignoring how much he generated to the Colts and others. No point discussing this further.

[UndecidedFrog]

Why did Colts pay 26 million then?. No one stopped Irsay from cutting him last year?. Oh thats right, there was a hope of saving the team later and keeping the fan base and other teams.

The Colts signed the 5 year/$90MM contract with PM, hoping the PM would play. This was before the PM's major surgery that prevented him from playing at all in 2011 season. They paid the $26.4MM last year because they were contractually obligated to do so. Believe me, if the Colts knew that PM could not play at all in 2011, they would have structured the contract differently, or delayed the signing of that contract to start in 2012.

And my answer didnt suggest that. You can flip flop this as much as you want, Colts were 2-14 last year coz of one guy - Peyton.

The Colts could easily go 2-14 if they did not sign that PM contract. If they did not sign the PM contract, PM was not going to play. Same result. Therefore it is incorrect to think that the contractual payment of $26.4MM bought us a 2-14 record and the #1 overall draft pick.

[Zebra3]

I just want to say I am tired of so called, "Colts Fans" calling other fans, not true loyal Colts fans. If your a fan of one player or numerous players your a fan. Everyone has there reasons for why they are Colts fans and it's not for one person to say what you have to be or do to be a fan. No matter if you've been a fan for 1 year or 30, your a fan. No matter if you go to the games or stay home and watch on tv. Some of you so called Colts fan diehards should be ashamed of yourselves and are nothing more than hipocrits.

Peyton Manning was the greatest player to ever put on a Colts jersey. He did more for this franchise and this City than probable anyone has in the history of the league. I know he helped build the NFL to the level it is today. It's only logical that people are invested and they gave there hearts to support this team because they believed in loyality, respect and character and all the great things Peyton Manning brought into our lives. You can't just replace that from the hearts and minds of your fanbase. In life there are things that are just known to be right things to do and keeping Manning was one of those things when it comes to sports and fan support.

I've been a Colts fan for 27 years so I have seen and been through a lot. I was a fan before Manning came but I was also loyal to the team. I supported them in the bad and the good years. I have sacrificed family and friendship to support my Colts. I have made huge financial sacrifices and have only missed three home games in 18 years with 2 of those coming this year. I'm tired of all the ^cowpatties^. Time will tell but I think Irsay has made the biggest mistake of his life and will forever be reminded of his this business decision. He won't be remembered for winning the Super Bowl, as an owner, but for being the guy that released Peyton Manning, the face of his franchise and the league for several years. In sports you strive to put yourself in a situation to succeed and by doing this he has only put himself in a situation to fail. By releasing Manning he has divided his fanbase, he has showed dishonesty in the way he handled the entire situation and he has put all his hope into one player bringing his franchise back to glory. That isn't a situation to succeed but a situation to fail.

Being a true Colts fan goes way beyond just supporting the organization and it's decision's without doubt but also standing up and voicing your disgust when you feel wronged. I think the majority of the fan base is with me here. They feel cheated, and unappreciated as a voice. You can only invest your heart and soul into something for so long before you become numb to everything and it no longer becomes as important in your life. To all Colts fans, I'm with ya, I'm hurt, I'm doubting my support, I'm asking myself "why" anymore but only you can say weather you want to support this team anymore. I loved Peyton Manning and I never thought he would be released. I've thought about selling my season ticket's and just staying home because of my anger and hatred of Mr. Irsay for doing this. I don't know if I want to support Irsay and this franchise anymore but only time will heal my feelings and only I can make that choice. It irks me that any Colts fan can call someone else a none fan because were all fans for different reason's.

The next time the, so called true Colts fans, can't watch the Colts on TV because the games are blacked out, or we have suffered through numerous season's of losing, or the downtown tailgating isn't what it once was and we are no longer a team with an identity and a hope of winning, let alone making the playoff's, I think you'll remember this day. The day the heart and soul of the Colts franchise was broken by the mismanagement of one person. Mr. Irsay, hire someone to run your team don't try and do it like you did prior to Pollian and Manning because it didn't work out very well. Sad, Sad days! Everytime Manning took the field we all believed we had a chance to win, how do we feel now????????????????????

Excellent post.

[Zebra3]

And honestly, I feel worse for Luck coming in. So much of this fan base is gonna take their rage out on him when he comes in and throws a pick or doesn't complete a pass when in reality, it wasn't his fault. He was just being the best player he could be in college. Not his fault that the Polians built a team that depended so much on one player. Luck is going to mess up and have his rookie mistakes but if the likes of Andy Dalton and Cam Newton can come in and have a decent amount of success off the bat, I believe Luck can too. Just don't expect him to be the savior overnight. Give him a chance.

Regardless of Peyton, the Colts should still pass on Luck and RGIII. They've gutted the team, if they get a high profile QB to 'replace' Peyton, that QB will forever be the 'rebound' relationship for the fans and the franchise. Not a good way to begin a careeer, or a franchise re-build. They need to rebuild the team on fundamentals, and start with a Qb that can help guide the team well enough to solidify the bedrock of the future franchise, then draft a franchise QB later.

But that's not what will happen, and Luck will forever be dogged by the sense of being the rebound from the breakup with Peyton. I'm sure that he will utterly relish that role.

[braveheartcolt]

I just want to say I am tired of so called, "Colts Fans" calling other fans, not true loyal Colts fans. If your a fan of one player or numerous players your a fan. Everyone has there reasons for why they are Colts fans and it's not for one person to say what you have to be or do to be a fan. No matter if you've been a fan for 1 year or 30, your a fan. No matter if you go to the games or stay home and watch on tv. Some of you so called Colts fan diehards should be ashamed of yourselves and are nothing more than hipocrits.

Peyton Manning was the greatest player to ever put on a Colts jersey. He did more for this franchise and this City than probable anyone has in the history of the league. I know he helped build the NFL to the level it is today. It's only logical that people are invested and they gave there hearts to support this team because they believed in loyality, respect and character and all the great things Peyton Manning brought into our lives. You can't just replace that from the hearts and minds of your fanbase. In life there are things that are just known to be right things to do and keeping Manning was one of those things when it comes to sports and fan support.

I've been a Colts fan for 27 years so I have seen and been through a lot. I was a fan before Manning came but I was also loyal to the team. I supported them in the bad and the good years. I have sacrificed family and friendship to support my Colts. I have made huge financial sacrifices and have only missed three home games in 18 years with 2 of those coming this year. I'm tired of all the ^cowpatties^. Time will tell but I think Irsay has made the biggest mistake of his life and will forever be reminded of his this business decision. He won't be remembered for winning the Super Bowl, as an owner, but for being the guy that released Peyton Manning, the face of his franchise and the league for several years. In sports you strive to put yourself in a situation to succeed and by doing this he has only put himself in a situation to fail. By releasing Manning he has divided his fanbase, he has showed dishonesty in the way he handled the entire situation and he has put all his hope into one player bringing his franchise back to glory. That isn't a situation to succeed but a situation to fail.

Being a true Colts fan goes way beyond just supporting the organization and it's decision's without doubt but also standing up and voicing your disgust when you feel wronged. I think the majority of the fan base is with me here. They feel cheated, and unappreciated as a voice. You can only invest your heart and soul into something for so long before you become numb to everything and it no longer becomes as important in your life. To all Colts fans, I'm with ya, I'm hurt, I'm doubting my support, I'm asking myself "why" anymore but only you can say weather you want to support this team anymore. I loved Peyton Manning and I never thought he would be released. I've thought about selling my season ticket's and just staying home because of my anger and hatred of Mr. Irsay for doing this. I don't know if I want to support Irsay and this franchise anymore but only time will heal my feelings and only I can make that choice. It irks me that any Colts fan can call someone else a none fan because were all fans for different reason's.

The next time the, so called true Colts fans, can't watch the Colts on TV because the games are blacked out, or we have suffered through numerous season's of losing, or the downtown tailgating isn't what it once was and we are no longer a team with an identity and a hope of winning, let alone making the playoff's, I think you'll remember this day. The day the heart and soul of the Colts franchise was broken by the mismanagement of one person. Mr. Irsay, hire someone to run your team don't try and do it like you did prior to Pollian and Manning because it didn't work out very well. Sad, Sad days! Everytime Manning took the field we all believed we had a chance to win, how do we feel now????????????????????

Excellent post. But you missed one small detail. He can't throw.

[Steve Waugh]

The Colts signed the 5 year/$90MM contract with PM, hoping the PM would play. This was before the PM's major surgery that prevented him from playing at all in 2011 season. They paid the $26.4MM last year because they were contractually obligated to do so. Believe me, if the Colts knew that PM could not play at all in 2011, they would have structured the contract differently, or delayed the signing of that contract to start in 2012.

The Colts could easily go 2-14 if they did not sign that PM contract. If they did not sign the PM contract, PM was not going to play. Same result. Therefore it is incorrect to think that the contractual payment of $26.4MM bought us a 2-14 record and the #1 overall draft pick.

I didnt want to go over this again but one last try.

Point is 26 millions paid to Manning is never for nothing. Yes, he didnt play last year but his contributions even without playing and other highlights i mentioned is massive.

We cant say paid to Peyton for nothing.

[Restored]

Regardless of Peyton, the Colts should still pass on Luck and RGIII. They've gutted the team, if they get a high profile QB to 'replace' Peyton, that QB will forever be the 'rebound' relationship for the fans and the franchise. Not a good way to begin a careeer, or a franchise re-build. They need to rebuild the team on fundamentals, and start with a Qb that can help guide the team well enough to solidify the bedrock of the future franchise, then draft a franchise QB later.

But that's not what will happen, and Luck will forever be dogged by the sense of being the rebound from the breakup with Peyton. I'm sure that he will utterly relish that role.

You know normally I agree with you on stuff but passing on Luck and RG3 is completely foolish IMO. No disrespect there. You take the FRANCHISE QB and build a FRANCHISE with him. The Luck era begins. If fans don't want to support him, thats on them. I'll be more than happy to take their spot as a season ticket holder.

[UndecidedFrog]

I didnt want to go over this again but one last try.

Point is 26 millions paid to Manning is never for nothing. Yes, he didnt play last year but his contributions even without playing and other highlights i mentioned is massive.

We cant say paid to Peyton for nothing.

PM's contributions to the community came from his salary and bonuses that the Colts paid him for QB services rendered. Last season, he did not render any QB service on the field. I think $26.4MM is pretty steep to be a mascot, or a community contributor. Maybe you feel differently?

[Zebra3]

You know normally I agree with you on stuff but passing on Luck and RG3 is completely foolish IMO. No disrespect there. You take the FRANCHISE QB and build a FRANCHISE with him. The Luck era begins. If fans don't want to support him, thats on them. I'll be more than happy to take their spot as a season ticket holder.

The reason I don't think Luck or RGIII shuold be selected has nothing to do with whether or not the fans would support them or not. It has much more to do with the potential value of the pick and how many other gaps we could fill in the roster with the picks we might get in return. Since we appear to be rebuilding in a scorched earth mode we need new faces on the D-line, O-line, receiving, secondary, running game and kicker too. As much as the Colts (and any franchise) need a great QB, we need a team underneath that QB to make it work. Let's say we take Luck and have a pourous O-line. A season of 50+ sacks could leave us with a broken QB, and we've blown the value of that #1 pick. I've always felt that you must build a team from the ground up, and the D-line/O-line are the foundation for anything in that regard, not the QB.

[Zebra3]

Excellent post. But you missed one small detail. He can't throw.

He can't? I'm pretty sure that there is a video of him at Duke in full pads doing exactly that...

[UndecidedFrog]

The reason I don't think Luck or RGIII shuold be selected has nothing to do with whether or not the fans would support them or not. It has much more to do with the potential value of the pick and how many other gaps we could fill in the roster with the picks we might get in return. Since we appear to be rebuilding in a scorched earth mode we need new faces on the D-line, O-line, receiving, secondary, running game and kicker too. As much as the Colts (and any franchise) need a great QB, we need a team underneath that QB to make it work. Let's say we take Luck and have a pourous O-line. A season of 50+ sacks could leave us with a broken QB, and we've blown the value of that #1 pick. I've always felt that you must build a team from the ground up, and the D-line/O-line are the foundation for anything in that regard, not the QB.

The Miami Dolphins followed the strategy you laid out. They thought they needed to fill in many holes in their team, and consistently used their first round pick to pick positions other than QB since using their 1st round pick on Dan Marino in 1983.

Miami had an opportunity to pick Matt Ryan when they had the overall #1 pick in 2008. Instead they used it to pick Jake Long OT. They are still searching for their franchise QB for 2 decades now, and may have to pay through the nose to get Peyton as a stop-gap measure for a few years.

It is highly unlikely that a team will have the opportunity to get the #1 overall draft pick, and have a highly rated QB draft prospect available for that same draft. That is why many say that you cannot pass on a potential franchise QB.

[Restored]

The reason I don't think Luck or RGIII shuold be selected has nothing to do with whether or not the fans would support them or not. It has much more to do with the potential value of the pick and how many other gaps we could fill in the roster with the picks we might get in return. Since we appear to be rebuilding in a scorched earth mode we need new faces on the D-line, O-line, receiving, secondary, running game and kicker too. As much as the Colts (and any franchise) need a great QB, we need a team underneath that QB to make it work. Let's say we take Luck and have a pourous O-line. A season of 50+ sacks could leave us with a broken QB, and we've blown the value of that #1 pick. I've always felt that you must build a team from the ground up, and the D-line/O-line are the foundation for anything in that regard, not the QB.

Or we could get the franchise QB now that so many teams fail to find and build a team around him, which is a lot easier to do. Luck won't have a Houston Texans line. We aren't an expansion team. We still have some very good pieces. Castanzo and Ijlana are good starting pieces and if Saturday returns, thats an added piece as well. If Luck turns out to be an all-time great, isn't losing him blowing the pick?

[Jaric]

I think the outrage and hate being expressed in this thread is precisely the reason that Irsay made it known he was the one making the decision.

If this was Grigson's call, he wouldn't stand a chance here.

[Zebra3]

Or we could get the franchise QB now that so many teams fail to find and build a team around him, which is a lot easier to do. Luck won't have a Houston Texans line. We aren't an expansion team. We still have some very good pieces. Castanzo and Ijlana are good starting pieces and if Saturday returns, thats an added piece as well. If Luck turns out to be an all-time great, isn't losing him blowing the pick?

No, I've seen far more occasions where a team took a QB in the draft that was authentically good, only to put the poor guy behind a horrible line. The outcome is always the same, a broken QB with zero confidence. I dislike that idea intensly, and feel that we should be building out from the lines.

[Zebra3]

I think the outrage and hate being expressed in this thread is precisely the reason that Irsay made it known he was the one making the decision. If this was Grigson's call, he wouldn't stand a chance here.

Hate? where? People expressing how they feel about things isn't hate. But, if you think that there is hate on display in this thread, you really ought to report it - instead of making sweeping statements about it.

[WSO]

No, I've seen far more occasions where a team took a QB in the draft that was authentically good, only to put the poor guy behind a horrible line. The outcome is always the same, a broken QB with zero confidence. I dislike that idea intensly, and feel that we should be building out from the lines.

Our O line isn't horrible

They allowed 35 sacks which in part is attributed to the QBs not having very good pocket prescence. In comparision, David Carr's line allowed 76 sacks his rookie year. This line has done well considering the injuries, poor QB play, and lack of chemistry. And the Colts have not addressed F/A or the draft so it will be much better.

[Steve Waugh]

PM's contributions to the community came from his salary and bonuses that the Colts paid him for QB services rendered. Last season, he did not render any QB service on the field. I think $26.4MM is pretty steep to be a mascot, or a community contributor. Maybe you feel differently?

And Colts got money from who?.

How did Colts market value increased by 230 million dollars in the last 14 yrs?. I bet its not a mascot or a community contributor. May be i think logically and state the facts?.

[DG1]

Good or bad time will tell but, Irsay had to make the call of a lifetime...I do not envy him one bit.

[BleedingBlue]

I just want to say I am tired of so called, "Colts Fans" calling other fans, not true loyal Colts fans. If your a fan of one player or numerous players your a fan. Everyone has there reasons for why they are Colts fans and it's not for one person to say what you have to be or do to be a fan. No matter if you've been a fan for 1 year or 30, your a fan. No matter if you go to the games or stay home and watch on tv. Some of you so called Colts fan diehards should be ashamed of yourselves and are nothing more than hipocrits.

Peyton Manning was the greatest player to ever put on a Colts jersey. He did more for this franchise and this City than probable anyone has in the history of the league. I know he helped build the NFL to the level it is today. It's only logical that people are invested and they gave there hearts to support this team because they believed in loyality, respect and character and all the great things Peyton Manning brought into our lives. You can't just replace that from the hearts and minds of your fanbase. In life there are things that are just known to be right things to do and keeping Manning was one of those things when it comes to sports and fan support.

I've been a Colts fan for 27 years so I have seen and been through a lot. I was a fan before Manning came but I was also loyal to the team. I supported them in the bad and the good years. I have sacrificed family and friendship to support my Colts. I have made huge financial sacrifices and have only missed three home games in 18 years with 2 of those coming this year. I'm tired of all the ^cowpatties^. Time will tell but I think Irsay has made the biggest mistake of his life and will forever be reminded of his this business decision. He won't be remembered for winning the Super Bowl, as an owner, but for being the guy that released Peyton Manning, the face of his franchise and the league for several years. In sports you strive to put yourself in a situation to succeed and by doing this he has only put himself in a situation to fail. By releasing Manning he has divided his fanbase, he has showed dishonesty in the way he handled the entire situation and he has put all his hope into one player bringing his franchise back to glory. That isn't a situation to succeed but a situation to fail.

Being a true Colts fan goes way beyond just supporting the organization and it's decision's without doubt but also standing up and voicing your disgust when you feel wronged. I think the majority of the fan base is with me here. They feel cheated, and unappreciated as a voice. You can only invest your heart and soul into something for so long before you become numb to everything and it no longer becomes as important in your life. To all Colts fans, I'm with ya, I'm hurt, I'm doubting my support, I'm asking myself "why" anymore but only you can say weather you want to support this team anymore. I loved Peyton Manning and I never thought he would be released. I've thought about selling my season ticket's and just staying home because of my anger and hatred of Mr. Irsay for doing this. I don't know if I want to support Irsay and this franchise anymore but only time will heal my feelings and only I can make that choice. It irks me that any Colts fan can call someone else a none fan because were all fans for different reason's.

The next time the, so called true Colts fans, can't watch the Colts on TV because the games are blacked out, or we have suffered through numerous season's of losing, or the downtown tailgating isn't what it once was and we are no longer a team with an identity and a hope of winning, let alone making the playoff's, I think you'll remember this day. The day the heart and soul of the Colts franchise was broken by the mismanagement of one person. Mr. Irsay, hire someone to run your team don't try and do it like you did prior to Pollian and Manning because it didn't work out very well. Sad, Sad days! Everytime Manning took the field we all believed we had a chance to win, how do we feel now????????????????????

Bravo.

[OldManP]

It does matter, your answer suggested that the $26.4MM was paid for the #1 overall pick. I showed you that was not the case. If the Colts had not paid the money, the team would still be 2-14, and have the #1 overall pick.

The previous poster suggested that the $26.4MM was paid to PM, and it produced nothing. I am inclined to agree, since PM did not play one single down last season.

You are correct sir! You are thinking like a businessman and not someone's girlfriend. Some of these posters are way too emotional to see the forest for the trees

[shoefansince59]

Who's gonna defend Irsay now that he has cut Brakett, Bullitt, Clark and Addai???

Irsay wont win for YEARS!!!!!!!