Upset With Irsay [Merge]

[dudeman]

Why, because it was his team. Win or lose. I dont get what peps dont understand. He has never been on opportunist. He is and always be a football player!

That he is, if he was under contract he would make every effort to play coaching change or not. But, that doesn't cover his on-field results as history has shown with Peyton, he struggles until he's comfortable.

[manningstheman]

That he is, if he was under contract he would make every effort to play coaching change or not. But, that doesn't cover his on-field results as history has shown with Peyton, he struggles until he's comfortable.

Wow, well ofcourse he is only going to be great when he is comfortable. He isnt going to win every game. What is comfortable. Every QB is going to struggle when they arent comfortable. Would have been nice to have a running game to fall on then. Oh, that must be Peytons fault too.

[WSO]

Wow, well ofcourse he is only going to be great when he is comfortable. He isnt going to win every game. What is comfortable. Every QB is going to struggle when they arent comfortable. Would have been nice to have a running game to fall on then. Oh, that must be Peytons fault too.

No one is saying this is Peytons fault. It's just not fair to blame Irsay for all this. Polian was the one who built the awful team last year and was responsible for building a team that relied heavily on one player. There comes a certain point in which the lack of talent cannot be made up for and at some point Manning cannot continue carrying an awful team. There is a reason he is so great yet only has one super bowl. Our team heading into free agency looks BAD. That coupled with the cap situation makes it not a favorable situation for Manning. He has a much better shot at winning the big one else where.

[manningstheman]

No one is saying this is Peytons fault. It's just not fair to blame Irsay for all this. Polian was the one who built the awful team last year and was responsible for building a team that relied heavily on one player. There comes a certain point in which the lack of talent cannot be made up for and at some point Manning cannot continue carrying an awful team. There is a reason he is so great yet only has one super bowl. Our team heading into free agency looks BAD. That coupled with the cap situation makes it not a favorable situation for Manning. He has a much better shot at winning the big one else where.

Ok, so take Brady out of the Patriots this year. How bad was their defense? Ummm...really bad. Do they make the Playoffs. When you have a once in a life time QB, things arent the same as other teams.

[JustAColtsFan]

I'll give the colts a few days to resign Peyton Manning, but they are on a tight leash. If Jim Irsay doesn't bring Peyton back and the other colts veterans, then he has proven that he is not a good owner, that he is not loyal, that he is respectful, and that he doesn't know how to run a business. The colts are not run in the mold, "It's just business" or they used to not be run that way.

Jim, don't >>> it up. I find people who think that choosing Andrew Luck or a quarterback at the #1 pick as the only way to be extremely ignorant. To me and to many other people, it's clear as day to keep one of the best players of all time, Peyton Manning, and to trade the #1 pick to load the team with talent. With Peyton Manning, you have a good team that is a few pieces away from having a good defense and offense apart from the quarterback. All it takes is drafting those few pieces or getting them in free agency. It's really not that hard. I wonder how you get a job in the NFL anyways.

Once again Jim Irsay, don't mess it up. You seem to be a good man with good faith. Why don't you ask your faith what to do instead of relying on your own determination which is what you seem to be doing right now.

So it was perfectly fine when Irsay threw Harbaugh on the scrap heap right after he came within a dropped pass of taking us to a superbowl so that he could draft Peyton?? But now that Peyton has real issues with his health and we have the opportunity to draft the best young QB to come into the draft since Peyton it is just TERRIBLE of Irsay! What did Peyton show us in '98 that Luck isn't showing us now? It is all a crap shoot anyway. Did you expect Peyton to still be our QB when he is 40 yo or 50 yo. MOVE ON PEOPLE!!!!! I will always love Peyton and root for whatever team he goes to - except of course - if they are playing the COLTS.

[rabidfan77]

So here's a question; what does Luck have, that Irsay loves so much that Peyton does not? What makes Luck the newcomer more desirable from the owner's standpoint than Peyton?

Youth? Health? Cheaper? Pride/ego of finding his own next Manning? That's what I don't get

You nailed it youth, cheaper, and health I really think the rebuild is Irsay tanking the huge contracts of the Polian era don't be surprised to see clark and addai on the chopping block next. They resigned Mathis pretty cheap and if Freeney wants to much money next yr they will find his replacement as well

[manningstheman]

So it was perfectly fine when Irsay threw Harbaugh on the scrap heap right after he came within a dropped pass of taking us to a superbowl so that he could draft Peyton?? But now that Peyton has real issues with his health and we have the opportunity to draft the best young QB to come into the draft since Peyton it is just TERRIBLE of Irsay! What did Peyton show us in '98 that Luck isn't showing us now? It is all a crap shoot anyway. Did you expect Peyton to still be our QB when he is 40 yo or 50 yo. MOVE ON PEOPLE!!!!! I will always love Peyton and root for whatever team he goes to - except of course - if they are playing the COLTS.

Colts hadnt even won more then 9 let me say that again 9 games, even with Harbaugh( which I love as well) in Indy until Peyton arrived. Not the same thing at all.

[Malakai432]

I never said that. Just stated what I don't do. I don't lie and you can call me a monk or whatever I don't care. I'm not going to try to convince you either way. But I do have guidelines as an adult I don't cross. But if you lie I'm fine with that just don't expect me to believe a word you say....

Alrighty then, I'll take it then as you've said that you don't lie, but not deny that you haven't. We will just leave it at that . Btw I don't condone it, but yes I've admit everyone I've known on the face of the planet has lied. Now that's honesty.

[WSO]

Ok, so take Brady out of the Patriots this year. How bad was their defense? Ummm...really bad. Do they make the Playoffs. When you have a once in a life time QB, things arent the same as other teams.

What does Brady have to do with Mannings situation at all? This makes no sense. The Patriots are a much more complete team and we have seen what the Pats can do without Brady (2008) especially considering all that matters is PPG and in 2008 they gave up 19ppg and 21ppg this year. Not much of a difference at all. They played great in the playoffs basically won the AFCCG since Brady didn't play very well.

[chrisfarley]

I think the circumstances evolved over the course of this nightmarish scenario and Irsay was just doing what he thought was right based on gut-instinct (as he commonly says), ,, let's be fair, gut-instinct is what it is, a subjective approach that can take twists and turns. I really don't fault Irsay but that doesn't mean I can't be mad or dissapointed or in anquish over the "final blow" (which was today's press conference). It will sting for a good while.

[rabidfan77]

No one is saying this is Peytons fault. It's just not fair to blame Irsay for all this. Polian was the one who built the awful team last year and was responsible for building a team that relied heavily on one player. There comes a certain point in which the lack of talent cannot be made up for and at some point Manning cannot continue carrying an awful team. There is a reason he is so great yet only has one super bowl. Our team heading into free agency looks BAD. That coupled with the cap situation makes it not a favorable situation for Manning. He has a much better shot at winning the big one else where.

I think with the rebuild this split as painful as it is for the fan base was the best option for Peyton once Irsay decided on taking a qb regardless of Peyton's situation is would've just been a matter of time before his job was questioned and he was forced out. I think they both wanted to avoid that situation, go back and see Brady's reaction to the Pats drafting Mallet, because tom knows that if Bill ever left he would be next. Irsay got rid of everybody loyal to Peyton who would have fought him hard on this decision. At the end of the day Irsay traded maybe 4 more years of Peyton for 10-12 of Luck, one thing is for sure if Irsay is proven to have made a mistake with this choice he will be crucified by the fan base. If Peyton had stayed and then retired and the team fell apart Irsay would've gotten a 2 yr pass to fix it but now there is some much more pressure on him for ending Peyton's time early

[manningstheman]

What does Brady have to do with Mannings situation at all? This makes no sense. The Patriots are a much more complete team and we have seen what the Pats can do without Brady (2008) especially considering all that matters is PPG and in 2008 they gave up 19ppg and 21ppg this year. Not much of a difference at all. They played great in the playoffs basically won the AFCCG since Brady didn't play very well.

Is that the same as this year? I am sure their defense was at the end of the league in 2011. That is not even the same. If Brady didnt play this year they dont make the playoffs.

[CanuckColtsFan]

Looks like I am going to travel to a different city this year to see the man that got me into NFL football. Its a shame, I wanted to check out LOS. I'm not impressed how Irsay handled all this but what do I know. I do do know that my money is going to be spent in a different city next year though. I can't look back on this in ten years and say, " I had a chance to see Manning play and didn't take it."

[rabidfan77]

What does Brady have to do with Mannings situation at all? This makes no sense. The Patriots are a much more complete team and we have seen what the Pats can do without Brady (2008) especially considering all that matters is PPG and in 2008 they gave up 19ppg and 21ppg this year. Not much of a difference at all. They played great in the playoffs basically won the AFCCG since Brady didn't play very well.

No the Patriots are no longer the complete team their defense is awful, in 2008 they still had all of their defensive vets to fall back on this yr if Brady had gone down they would be in the same situation as the colts with Kraft making the decision instead of Irsay. The pats have little ground game ranked towards the bottom of the league and a defense that got burned week in and week out Brady covers a lot of holes on that team thats why Bill has transformed the team from a hard hitting stiff defense into a high octane offense that is centered around the qb. At of all 32 teams the packers are the only complete team because their defense can stand on its own. And it was mistakes by the ravens that gave the pats the win in that game not the pats defense

[BleedingBlue]

If they ban people who joined that week, should they also ban all the people who joined here because of Manning? It's basically the same thing. You have Luck fans, then you have Manning fans, then you have Colts fans. You mentioned "real" colts fans, imo a real colts fan sticks with the team regardless. That means when popular players are let go, you thank them, never forget the memories, wish them well, and at the end of the day still support the Colts. I get the feeling several will no longer support the Colts, and they will use excuses like "the Colts aren't who i thought they were" or "they no longer do things the right way". When in reality, these people never were truly Colts fans, they were a fan of a player. So naturally when said player leaves, so does the "fan". This was to be expected.

yes. lol.

[Colts#1fan]

Alrighty then, I'll take it then as you've said that you don't lie, but not deny that you haven't. We will just leave it at that . Btw I don't condone it, but yes I've admit everyone I've known on the face of the planet has lied. Now that's honesty.

I don't believe you lol... Jk

[WSO]

No the Patriots are no longer the complete team their defense is awful, in 2008 they still had all of their defensive vets to fall back on this yr if Brady had gone down they would be in the same situation as the colts with Kraft making the decision instead of Irsay. The pats have little ground game ranked towards the bottom of the league and a defense that got burned week in and week out Brady covers a lot of holes on that team thats why Bill has transformed the team from a hard hitting stiff defense into a high octane offense that is centered around the qb. At of all 32 teams the packers are the only complete team because their defense can stand on its own. And it was mistakes by the ravens that gave the pats the win in that game not the pats defense

Their defense was good but not great in 2008. 19ppg. Matt Cassel played well in 2008, thats why they won 11 games. And how do you know if Brady went down the Patriots are in the same situation? Have you seen Hoyer play? Reminds me of in 2008 when Brady was injured. Everyone thought they were going to suck from there on. Isn't it hypocritical to say their defense sucks but then you say the Packers defense can stand on its own who were DEAD LAST? Of course unless you are talking about PPG then my argument stands.

The Patriots defense single handedly saved the team. Go watch Lee Evans potential TD that would have sealed the Ravens a spot in the SB until the corner made a great play and knocked it out at the last second.

[WSO]

Is that the same as this year? I am sure their defense was at the end of the league in 2011. That is not even the same. If Brady didnt play this year they dont make the playoffs.

How do you know this? Thats like saying the Patriots have no chance in 2008 when Cassel came in. Hoyer could very well have gone on to suck or play well. These are silly assumptions that have NOTHING to do with the Colts.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

Their defense was good but not great in 2008. 19ppg. Matt Cassel played well in 2008, thats why they won 11 games. And how do you know if Brady went down the Patriots are in the same situation? Have you seen Hoyer play? Reminds me of in 2008 when Brady was injured. Everyone thought they were going to suck from there on. Isn't it hypocritical to say their defense sucks but then you say the Packers defense can stand on its own who were DEAD LAST? Of course unless you are talking about PPG then my argument stands.

The Patriots defense single handedly saved the team. Go watch Lee Evans potential TD that would have sealed the Ravens a spot in the SB until the corner made a great play and knocked it out at the last second.

The fact that the other three teams in the division were a joke at that time, giving the Pats at least 6 sure wins didn’t hurt.

[WSO]

The fact that the other three teams in the division were a joke at that time, giving the Pats at least 6 sure wins didn’t hurt.

You're right, the Dolphins going 11-5 and the Jets going 9-7. . .complete joke

[manningstheman]

How do you know this? Thats like saying the Patriots have no chance in 2008 when Cassel came in. Hoyer could very well have gone on to suck or play well. These are silly assumptions that have NOTHING to do with the Colts.

It was a decent year, but they didnt make the playoffs that year either. What are you saying. It has already been accepted the Patriots back then were better then the Cotls.

[WSO]

It was a decent year, but they didnt make the playoffs that year either. What are you saying. It has already been accepted the Patriots back then were better then the Cotls.

They didn't because the Dolphins played well that year and they got >>>ed over by the tie breaker. The Patriots have generally always been a better team than the Colts because they are good in all 3 phases. I think its unfair to compare the two. The Colts rely heavily on Manning playing well where as the Patriots can get away if Brady doesn't play great (See this years AFCCG). If Manning plays poorly, its hugely detrimental to the Colts because the Colts don't have a very good defense and special teams. When they do (2006 playoffs), then you can sort of see what it's like to be the Patriots.

[manningstheman]

They didn't because the Dolphins played well that year and they got >>>ed over by the tie breaker. The Patriots have generally always been a better team than the Colts because they are good in all 3 phases. I think its unfair to compare the two. The Colts rely heavily on Manning playing well where as the Patriots can get away if Brady doesn't play great (See this years AFCCG). If Manning plays poorly, its hugely detrimental to the Colts because the Colts don't have a very good defense and special teams. When they do (2006 playoffs), then you can sort of see what it's like to be the Patriots.

Take Brady out of the Patriots this year and they dont win half the games they did and never make the playoffs. Every team changes every year.

[dudeman]

Wow, well ofcourse he is only going to be great when he is comfortable. He isnt going to win every game. What is comfortable. Every QB is going to struggle when they arent comfortable. Would have been nice to have a running game to fall on then. Oh, that must be Peytons fault too.

I never said it was. You seem to enjoy putting words in other guy's mouths...hopefully it just stays as words.

Peyton is and has always been a person of very specific habits. When given the choice, he will take every snap at practice and will be better because of it, but that comes at the cost of a backup not having valuable practice/playing time experience. When those habits or the environment changes so drastically, he will struggle. It's not is "fault" but that's who he is. You cannot seriously claim he's like every single QB where is work ethic, dedication AND specific routine are among his stand-out qualities that made him so go for so long.

[WSO]

Take Brady out of the Patriots this year and they dont win half the games they did and never make the playoffs. Every team changes every year.

Of course the teams change but the recipe for success doesn't. This is a team that has been to 5 Super Bowls in 11 years. Also that is not a fair assumption. You are not looking at the situation logically. You would have to know for sure Hoyer would completely suck who by the way is Brady's successor. You have no evidence, no logic, and are just pulling things out of thin air. This is like me saying, put Manning on the Colts in 2012 and they win 5 games at most. How do I know? Well I have no evidence to support it but I am guessing just like you.

[Malakai432]

I don't believe you lol... Jk

Darn you, .

I kid, I kid have a good one this is for you. It's a tough situation for all of us.

[manningstheman]

I never said it was. You seem to enjoy putting words in other guy's mouths...hopefully it just stays as words.

Peyton is and has always been a person of very specific habits. When given the choice, he will take every snap at practice and will be better because of it. When those habits or the environment changes so drastically, he will struggle. It's not is "fault" but that's who he is. You cannot seriously claim he's like every single QB where is work ethic, dedication AND specific routine are among his stand-out qualities that made him so go for so long.

Then you dont know Peyton, he has said over and over again that he would love to hand it off every snap.

[Parmo]

Plain and simple, Irsay didn't want Manning any longer. All this bull about the $28M, injury questions, wanting Manning to restructure his contract is crap. Irsay signed the contract with Manning for 5 years at $90M, and knew what ramifications it had on the cap, etc. The way the new bargaining agreement is structured, we certainly could have afforded to pay Luck and Manning. We paid geriatric Kerry Collins as much as it would have cost to pay Luck. If the $28M and the cap situation was OK before, and we could still pay Collins, why was it such an issue now?? Because Irsay no longer wanted Manning. One last message to JIMBO: Don't expect fan loyalty if you show no loyalty to your players, your fans, and your community.

[manningstheman]

Of course the teams change but the recipe for success doesn't. This is a team that has been to 5 Super Bowls in 11 years. Also that is not a fair assumption. You are not looking at the situation logically. You would have to know for sure Hoyer would completely suck who by the way is Brady's successor. You have no evidence, no logic, and are just pulling things out of thin air. This is like me saying, put Manning on the Colts in 2012 and they win 5 games at most. How do I know? Well I have no evidence to support it but I am guessing just like you.

Ok, you win. Hoyer would have won at least 11 games and went on to the SB. Sorry for acting like I know it all.

[WSO]

Plain and simple, Irsay didn't want Manning any longer. All this bull about the $28M, injury questions, wanting Manning to restructure his contract is crap. Irsay signed the contract with Manning for 5 years at $90M, and knew what ramifications it had on the cap, etc. The way the new bargaining agreement is structured, we certainly could have afforded to pay Luck and Manning. We paid geriatric Kerry Collins as much as it would have cost to pay Luck. If the $28M and the cap situation was OK before, and we could still pay Collins, why was it such an issue now?? Because Irsay no longer wanted Manning. One last message to JIMBO: Don't expect fan loyalty if you show no loyalty to your players, your fans, and your community.

Its an issue now because of the following free agents: Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, Jacob Tamme, Robert Mathis (signed now), Anthony Gonazalez, Phillip Wheeler, Jamaal Anderson.

The Colts cannot afford to re-sign those players, have Luck and Manning AND still try to address holes on the team. It would be near impossible.

[dudeman]

Then you dont know Peyton, he has said over and over again that he would love to hand it off every snap.

If the situation calls for it.

Peyton's smart enough to know that even if he could hand it off every snap, he wouldn't. What he jokes about doesn't matter in a game-time situation.

[WSO]

Ok, you win. Hoyer would have won at least 11 games and went on to the SB. Sorry for acting like I know it all.

I'm not saying Hoyer is going to win 11 games and go to the SB. Now you're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying it is completely unfair to think the Patriots would suck based on no evidence of how their backup QB plays. They could very well suck and win 0 games or win 10 or 11 and make the playoffs. We just don't know. Comparing the Patriots to the Colts are apples and oranges. Two different teams that do things two different ways but have similar success.

[rabidfan77]

Their defense was good but not great in 2008. 19ppg. Matt Cassel played well in 2008, thats why they won 11 games. And how do you know if Brady went down the Patriots are in the same situation? Have you seen Hoyer play? Reminds me of in 2008 when Brady was injured. Everyone thought they were going to suck from there on. Isn't it hypocritical to say their defense sucks but then you say the Packers defense can stand on its own who were DEAD LAST? Of course unless you are talking about PPG then my argument stands.

The Patriots defense single handedly saved the team. Go watch Lee Evans potential TD that would have sealed the Ravens a spot in the SB until the corner made a great play and knocked it out at the last second.

I didn't say their defense was great in 2008 BUT it was a lot better than the defense they fielded in 2011. The 2011 D was burned by some of the most average qb's in the league. Matt had a ground game in 2008, Hoyer would not have had one in 2011. If you watched any good amount of Pats games this yr like I did (sunday ticket) you would see that the o-line struggled to protect Brady this yr what makes you think Hoyer would've stood a chance, and outside welker, gronk, and hernadez the other receivers are trash, no legit running back either. Issues at DE as they brought in old vets for those positions and only 1 solid lb (mayo) 1 solid safety (chung) and no cornerback's. Does that sound familiar to you? They are built just like the colts were if Brady goes down it falls apart, only difference NE as a good coaching staff that would win the close games the colts 2011 crappy staff lost. And defense is about alot more than just PPG because so many factors play into PPG do some research and you'll learn that. And if Evans had held onto that ball like he's paid to the corner of got beat because his back was turned would have been hated by all NE fans not to mention the 30 something yard missed FG that the kicker is paid to make in prefect conditions mind you the ravens lost that game like I said because of MISTAKES. Do some research before you debate it always helps to know what your talking about as you clearly are confused.

[manningstheman]

I'm not saying Hoyer is going to win 11 games and go to the SB. Now you're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying it is completely unfair to think the Patriots would suck based on no evidence of how their backup QB plays. They could very well suck and win 0 games or win 10 or 11 and make the playoffs. We just don't know. Comparing the Patriots to the Colts are apples and oranges. Two different teams that do things two different ways but have similar success.

Sorry, your right. Hoyer and one of the worst defensive teams in the league are going to win alot of games. Sorry, I didnt want to put words in your mouth.

[dudeman]

Plain and simple, Irsay didn't want Manning any longer. All this bull about the $28M, injury questions, wanting Manning to restructure his contract is crap. Irsay signed the contract with Manning for 5 years at $90M, and knew what ramifications it had on the cap, etc. The way the new bargaining agreement is structured, we certainly could have afforded to pay Luck and Manning. We paid geriatric Kerry Collins as much as it would have cost to pay Luck. If the $28M and the cap situation was OK before, and we could still pay Collins, why was it such an issue now?? Because Irsay no longer wanted Manning. One last message to JIMBO: Don't expect fan loyalty if you show no loyalty to your players, your fans, and your community.

He didn't want Manning because the opportunity to part ways with Manning's legacy in-tact and rebuild at the same time. We wouldn't be in discussion and Manning (with most of the coaching staff) would still be here if we didn't get the first pick of the draft with an amazing QB prospect. That's something that Irsay COULD NOT have predicted. Let's not forget that the $28 option was Condon and Peyton's intial doing in the contract.

I'd rather have two teams to root for (colts and which-ever team Manning is on) than face these forums every time Manning throws a pick to toss in Luck. That's just asking for a Brett Favre-esque situation to spring up.

[Parmo]

Its an issue now because of the following free agents: Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, Jacob Tamme, Robert Mathis (signed now), Anthony Gonazalez, Phillip Wheeler, Jamaal Anderson.

The Colts cannot afford to re-sign those players, have Luck and Manning AND still try to address holes on the team. It would be near impossible.

And which of these players contract renewals did Irsay NOT know about prior to signing Peyton's last contract? NONE. So again... what changed?

[WSO]

I didn't say their defense was great in 2008 BUT it was a lot better than the defense they fielded in 2011. The 2011 D was burned by some of the most average qb's in the league. Matt had a ground game in 2008, Hoyer would not have had one in 2011. If you watched any good amount of Pats games this yr like I did (sunday ticket) you would see that the o-line struggled to protect Brady this yr what makes you think Hoyer would've stood a chance, and outside welker, gronk, and hernadez the other receivers are trash, no legit running back either. Issues at DE as they brought in old vets for those positions and only 1 solid lb (mayo) 1 solid safety (chung) and no cornerback's. Does that sound familiar to you? They are built just like the colts were if Brady goes down it falls apart, only difference NE as a good coaching staff that would win the close games the colts 2011 crappy staff lost. And defense is about alot more than just PPG because so many factors play into PPG do some research and you'll learn that. And if Evans had held onto that ball like he's paid to the corner of got beat because his back was turned would have been hated by all NE fans not to mention the 30 something yard missed FG that the kicker is paid to make in prefect conditions mind you the ravens lost that game like I said because of MISTAKES. Do some research before you debate it always helps to know what your talking about as you clearly are confused.

How is giving up a whopping 2 more points less per game "a lot better"? You also fail to realize 2008 and 2011 are two entirely different scenarios. This year we had multiple 5k yard passing QBs, offenses putting up historic numbers. In 2008 there was none of that because of the new rules protecting the QB and helmet to helmet hits specificially over the middle. Hence why even though they gave up a whopping 2 more points, they did it in a season where even average QBs looked good.

I'm also guessing you did not watch the games because the D was not 'burned' by any "average" QB whatsoever consistently. The highest amount of yardage was the very first game of the season with Chad Henne. Then the 2nd game with Rivers. After that their pass defense improved weekly and they never allowed another QB over 400 yards for the season. 353 after week 3. In the playoffs they did not allow a passer over 300 yards. You're telling me that is 'burned'? Lol

Also its funny you think that outside of Welker, Gronk and Hernandez the receivers are trash. Well theres another decent receiver named Deion Branch. Also what doesn't make sense here is. . THOSE ARE THE STARTERS. Do you expect pro bowl backups? It's like saying outside of Mario Manningham, Hakeem Nicks, and Victor Cruz the other receivers are trash. . . .well duh because they are backups.

And in a pass first league, tell me how beneficial a running game is. Ask the New York Giants who were ranked DEAD LAST in rushing and won the Super Bowl.

Lastly, at the end of the day. All that matters is how many points you score and how many you give up. You can give up 2k yards but if you hold them to under 10 points or however to win, thats all that matters.

You do not understand that 2011 and 2008 are vastly different.

[manningstheman]

How is giving up a whopping 2 more points less per game "a lot better"? You also fail to realize 2008 and 2011 are two entirely different scenarios. This year we had multiple 5k yard passing QBs, offenses putting up historic numbers. In 2008 there was none of that because of the new rules protecting the QB and helmet to helmet hits specificially over the middle. Hence why even though they gave up a whopping 2 more points, they did it in a season where even average QBs looked good.

I'm also guessing you did not watch the games because the D was not 'burned' by any "average" QB whatsoever consistently. The highest amount of yardage was the very first game of the season with Chad Henne. Then the 2nd game with Rivers. After that their pass defense improved weekly and they never allowed another QB over 400 yards for the season. 353 after week 3. In the playoffs they did not allow a passer over 300 yards. You're telling me that is 'burned'? Lol

Also its funny you think that outside of Welker, Gronk and Hernandez the receivers are trash. Well theres another decent receiver named Deion Branch. Also what doesn't make sense here is. . THOSE ARE THE STARTERS. Do you expect pro bowl backups? It's like saying outside of Mario Manningham, Hakeem Nicks, and Victor Cruz the other receivers are trash. . . .well duh because they are backups.

And in a pass first league, tell me how beneficial a running game is. Ask the New York Giants who were ranked DEAD LAST in rushing and won the Super Bowl.

Lastly, at the end of the day. All that matters is how many points you score and how many you give up. You can give up 2k yards but if you hold them to under 10 points or however to win, thats all that matters.

You do not understand that 2011 and 2008 are vastly different.

You only qutoe one season. That is fine. But, there has been a few season where to Colts had a great defensive team. Do we not win 7 or 9 those years.

[Portage Coltfans]

So, blame everything you do wrong on your boss and see of far that gets you.

huh? not even on the same page, do you know what the quote "buck stop" means?

[WSO]

You only qutoe one season. That is fine. But, there has been a few season where to Colts had a great defensive team. Do we not win 7 or 9 those years.

im specifically looking at 2008 and 2011 because of Hoyer and Cassell

I think its different because the Colts defense is built to win with a lead. We had a real good defense in 2005 I think we could have won a lot more than 2 games but depends who was at quarterback.