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Thomas Edison was a genious not only because of his own talents, but because he surrounded himself with people smarter than himself. (look up edison quotes)

Jim Irsay should've been smart enough to do that. Don't blame Polian, Irsay obviously can't and couldn't keep his horrible GM skills out of the football decision making process.

Errr....Polian's bad drafting is one of the causes that no one sourrounded Manning. Again, you're flip-flopping more than a fish out of water. Good grief.

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but he wasn't released because of that, he was released due to "cap issues" , cap issues we would have with a healthy PM.

We don't know precisely why PM was released, as Irsay was not explicit in the press conference. Many people, including some analysts have speculated.

FYI, the cap issues are precisely issues if PM does not play out the current contract. Therefore it is directly related to his health issues. The way PM's contract was structured, it was heavily front-loaded, such that over 60% of the total value was to be paid in LY2011, the first year of the contract.

$20MM signing bonus + $3MM 2011 roster bonus + $3.4MM 2011 salary + $28MM option bonus = $54.4MM

The 2 largest parts of this are the bonuses of $20 and $28, which in cap accounting are pro-rated evenly and spread throughout each year of the contractual term (5 years).

The absolute worse case scenario for the team is if after paying PM the option bonus, we find that he cannot go, and he is either cut or retires before the start of this season, then the team gets hit with the acceleration of those pro-rated pieces forward (according to cap accounting rules) such that it hit the 2012 cap at $38.4MM, or 1/3 of the total team cap. This will severely gut the team's ability to pay its players, let alone sign FAs.

Each year of the contract for the next 4 years, the team would be running the risk that PM could not go, and each of the 4 years are associated with potential salary cap hits if PM cannot go:

cut/retires before 2012 season; cap hit $38.4MM

cut/retires before 2013 season; cap hit $28.8MM

cut/retires before 2014 season; cap hit $19.2MM

cut/retires before 2015 season; cap hit $9.6MM

So you see, the cap issues are directly related to PM's ability to stay healthy.

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dont even ask me what you have said. lol

Is this guy serious?!

When asked when HE accused some one of insulting PM for proof, HE backs down. You, sir, have a future in politics... Shoot, you might even make a good president.

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Errr....Polian's bad drafting is one of the causes that no one sourrounded Manning. Again, you're flip-flopping more than a fish out of water. Good grief.

I didn't mean that none of the fault was polians, I meant that in the end it is Irsay's fault. - but thanks for picking that up for me Charile brown

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Joker,

When Irsay said "It's Peyton's decision", we don't really know what he meant, or what was going on in his head. It could be any of the following possibilities:

1) It's PM's decision if he wants to retire a Colt right now, instead of forcing the Colts to cut him. I don't think it is in his best interest to continue playing given his health condition.

2) It's PM's decision if he wants to be a Colt next season, if he is willing to restructure the contract so it does not put the Colts at risk should he not be able to continue playing.

3) It's PM's decision if he wants to continue playing for the Colts, even though we are in rebuilding mode, and should not expect a SB run anytime soon. Given PM's age, and limited years to play, it is up to him to decide if he wants to stay with a rebuilding team or go elsewhere in search of the ring again.

I think Irsay should have stayed out of the lime light this past few months.....because with those comments...he made promises and he broke it.

For good reasons, or not - he shouldn't have made statements such as "it is not about the money" then today it is about cap space.

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I didn't mean that none of the fault was polians, I meant that in the end it is Irsay's fault. - but thanks for picking that up for me Charile brown

But you still keep flip flopping on what Irsay needed to do.

First he can't run a team so he needs to surround him with capable people, but then when those people >>> up Irsay should have done something earlier, but that would mean he's getting involved, but wait he's not smart enough to do that, but wait he should.

Blue...No Green.

We got a Brett Favre over here!

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But you still keep flip flopping on what Irsay needed to do.

First he can't run a team so he needs to surround him with capable people, but then when those people >>> up Irsay should have done something earlier, but that would mean he's getting involved, but wait he's not smart enough to do that, but wait he should.

Blue...No Green.

We got a Brett Favre over here!

I didn't read the prior conversation regarding to your post - but,

Don't believe for one second that Irsay is pulling all the strings. He is not a football guy; he is a business guy. I am shocked that no one is concern that Irsay is confiding in a rookie GM.

If things fall apart - Irsay is going to take all the heat but I think his decisions were made or helped made by others.

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We don't know precisely why PM was released, as Irsay was not explicit in the press conference. Many people, including some analysts have speculated.

FYI, the cap issues are precisely issues if PM does not play out the current contract. Therefore it is directly related to his health issues. The way PM's contract was structured, it was heavily front-loaded, such that over 60% of the total value was to be paid in LY2011, the first year of the contract.

$20MM signing bonus + $3MM 2011 roster bonus + $3.4MM 2011 salary + $28MM option bonus = $54.4MM

The 2 largest parts of this are the bonuses of $20 and $28, which in cap accounting are pro-rated evenly and spread throughout each year of the contractual term (5 years).

The absolute worse case scenario for the team is if after paying PM the option bonus, we find that he cannot go, and he is either cut or retires before the start of this season, then the team gets hit with the acceleration of those pro-rated pieces forward (according to cap accounting rules) such that it hit the 2012 cap at $38.4MM, or 1/3 of the total team cap. This will severely gut the team's ability to pay its players, let alone sign FAs.

Each year of the contract for the next 4 years, the team would be running the risk that PM could not go, and each of the 4 years are associated with potential salary cap hits if PM cannot go:

cut/retires before 2012 season; cap hit $38.4MM

cut/retires before 2013 season; cap hit $28.8MM

cut/retires before 2014 season; cap hit $19.2MM

cut/retires before 2015 season; cap hit $9.6MM

So you see, the cap issues are directly related to PM's ability to stay healthy.

I appreciate the breakdown of the cap hits if he was to retire, but that is still a big "if". Peyton says he's ready to play, I'm ready to support. Also, it is known that Irsay told Peyton that it's time to end it, that was on ESPN. It is also becoming clear that Irsay didn't even want to restructure at all with Peyton.

This is a huge deal to colts nation! Not to restructure at all, even if PM wanted to?

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I think Irsay should have stayed out of the lime light this past few months.....because with those comments...he made promises and he broke it.

For good reasons, or not - he shouldn't have made statements such as "it is not about the money" then today it is about cap space.

What I have noticed is that Irsay tends to blurt out things without thinking very much on them.

He would have done much better being more circumspect and provided the generic, ....this is a process we are going through, and we have to evaluate where the team is and which direction it may be going, against the status of PM, his arm rehabilitation and the direction he intends to take if he is successful in his rehabilitation. And when a decision is made after we have as much information as possible, we will have a press conference to inform all of our decisions.

I agree that he could use some PR coaching.

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I didn't read the prior conversation regarding to your post - but,

Don't believe for one second that Irsay is pulling all the strings. He is not a football guy; he is a business guy. I am shocked that no one is concern that Irsay is confiding in a rookie GM.

If things fall apart - Irsay is going to take all the heat but I think his decisions were made or helped made by others.

So, it would be apt to say that Irsay is Batman in the Dark Knight, yes? Irsay killed Harvey Dent! Don't worry, he can take it, he's the Irsay. Indy needs someone to hate.

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I appreciate the breakdown of the cap hits if he was to retire, but that is still a big "if". Peyton says he's ready to play, I'm ready to support. Also, it is known that Irsay told Peyton that it's time to end it, that was on ESPN. It is also becoming clear that Irsay didn't even want to restructure at all with Peyton.

This is a huge deal to colts nation! Not to restructure at all, even if PM wanted to?

I have heard differing accounts on which party was the one who had the unwillingness to restructure.

Can you please provide me with this ESPN source that claims it was Irsay?

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I appreciate the breakdown of the cap hits if he was to retire, but that is still a big "if". Peyton says he's ready to play, I'm ready to support. Also, it is known that Irsay told Peyton that it's time to end it, that was on ESPN. It is also becoming clear that Irsay didn't even want to restructure at all with Peyton.

This is a huge deal to colts nation! Not to restructure at all, even if PM wanted to?

Restructuring wasn't going to change anything. You're still going to get the rest of the 90 mill contract over the next 4 years, the numbers per year might have changed but the total wouldn't. If Peyton killed his current contract, and took a HUUUGE discount, DeMaurice Smith and his NFLPA will raise a big 'ole stink. Remember, Peyton is also a representative of the NFLPA and could not take any less than market value as it affects other player's future contracts.

Nice intelligent conversation..... :whatever:

I love me some movies.

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But you still keep flip flopping on what Irsay needed to do.

First he can't run a team so he needs to surround him with capable people, but then when those people >>> up Irsay should have done something earlier, but that would mean he's getting involved, but wait he's not smart enough to do that, but wait he should.

Blue...No Green.

We got a Brett Favre over here!

what are you talking about? I dont think you understand there are many parts of an NFL team. It's not just - "duh, football....throw ball"

He probably dabbled in all parts of his team, (player personnel, GM, President, Front office, marketing)

Yes, he failed at hiring people capable to do the job

yes he failed at seeing his future cap problems - this means cap decisions

yes he failed at staying out of "football personell" decisions - this means roster decisions

how is that flip flopping? you need to try harder next time

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What I have noticed is that Irsay tends to blurt out things without thinking very much on them.

He would have done much better being more circumspect and provided the generic, ....this is a process we are going through, and we have to evaluate where the team is and which direction it may be going, against the status of PM, his arm rehabilitation and the direction he intends to take if he is successful in his rehabilitation. And when a decision is made after we have as much information as possible, we will have a press conference to inform all of our decisions.

I agree that he could use some PR coaching.

that and a few more things

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what are you talking about? I dont think you understand there are many parts of an NFL team. It's not just - "duh, football....throw ball"

He probably dabbled in all parts of his team, (player personnel, GM, President, Front office, marketing)

Yes, he failed at hiring people capable to do the job

yes he failed at seeing his future cap problems - this means cap decisions

yes he failed at staying out of "football personell" decisions - this means roster decisions

how is that flip flopping? you need to try harder next time

Actually, I think it's you that's misunderstanding. Aparently, Irsay is the NWO and created this large grandiose conspiracy to sabbotage Peyton.

"Probably dabbled" errr Who are you? Omnipotent? Irsay's clear intentions were to NOT dabble after he learned his lesson in the 90s unless his hand was forced. A miracle 2-14 season and a anxious, ready to leave fan-base that needed corralling forced his hand. Or were you not one of the thousands of bandwaggoning rabble-rousers?

Any suggestions on fixing the cap, keeping PM and fielding a competitive team every year, Oh ye who is better than Irsay?

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Restructuring wasn't going to change anything. You're still going to get the rest of the 90 mill contract over the next 4 years, the numbers per year might have changed but the total wouldn't. If Peyton killed his current contract, and took a HUUUGE discount, DeMaurice Smith and his NFLPA will raise a big 'ole stink. Remember, Peyton is also a representative of the NFLPA and could not take any less than market value as it affects other player's future contracts.

I love me some movies.

Apparently... ....

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haha. If I have to wait for the memoirs of Irsay and PM, I am sure I will be reading 2 differing accounts then as well.

somebody has inside info, it will leak over time. It would make it easier on fans if Irsay was just honest and forthright, not playing games with us over the past months.

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Actually, I think it's you that's misunderstanding. Aparently, Irsay is the NWO and created this large grandiose conspiracy to sabbotage Peyton.

"Probably dabbled" errr Who are you? Omnipotent? Irsay's clear intentions were to NOT dabble after he learned his lesson in the 90s unless his hand was forced. A miracle 2-14 season and a anxious, ready to leave fan-base that needed corralling forced his hand. Or were you not one of the thousands of bandwaggoning rabble-rousers?

Any suggestions on fixing the cap, keeping PM and fielding a competitive team every year, Oh ye who is better than Irsay?

EPIC Failure.

Are you watching half-baked right now? actually dont answer, I know you are

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EPIC Failure.

Are you watching half-baked right now? actually dont answer, I know you are

What's high is that you think PM, the NFLPA and the rest of the NFL would go along with Peyton trashing his contract and playing for peanuts. I guranteed if that happened it will be seen that Irsay strong-armed Peyton and you'd end up with Lockout Part Deux.

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Jim Irsay has said over and over again that if Peyton is healthy he will be a Colt. Then he said money was not a factor. Then he says its up to Peyton if he wants to play.

This afternoon, we will see the real Jim Irsay. Letting go of the soon to be HOF QB even though Peyton said he wanted to come back.

Although I can understand why this happened. I can not stand the fact that he stood in front of camera's, talked to media, and even tweeted about how much he wanted Peyton back. But, in the end, it sounds like he knew all along he was getting rid of him. It is reported that Irsay says its not about money, or health, or Peyton wanting to come back. It is that he wants to rebuild the team. So, he should have been a man and said that from the beginning.

I respected Jim, now I think its fair to say we are all just *s in his opinion. He can lie to us, and we will all just accept it. And, us loyal Colts fan will. Its just a sad sad situation.

It takes two to tango.....

Irsay would have worked it out had Manning been "willing" to work it out. Manning and his agent penned a masterful contract... One that put Peyton in a position of unquestinable control.

Irsay had 3 Options....

Pay the bonus and roll the dice Manning can stay healthy for the next 4 seasons...

Release him.....

or

Release him and resign... if "Peyton is willing to do so".... Peyton is obviously not willing to do so.

Why all the hate on Irsay? I guarantee, Manning wanted this... And he got the whole pie, a release from the trainwreck that is Indy and the "good guy in the PR battle"...

Oh well... Lets get ready to Rock the house with Luck.

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you have quite the imagination, so does charlie sheen. is that you charlie?

You're the one that thinks Irsay was meddling and cackling behind the scenes in some grand conspiracy to get Peyton Manning out of the way.

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somebody has inside info, it will leak over time. It would make it easier on fans if Irsay was just honest and forthright, not playing games with us over the past months.

I'm not entirely convinced that he wasn't. You see, I don't know Irsay very well, so I have no idea where his priorities lie.

It may very well be that his friendship with Peyton is genuine, and he sacrificed his own reputation by seeming to be playing games with the fans to afford Peyton as much time to decide in favor of retirement after his aggressive rehabbing until the very last week provided by the contract. This interpretation provides the best light.

Another interpretation would be that Irsay likes to be in the limelight, so he makes these blurts to play games with the fans, while always knowing the final direction he would take, regardless if Peyton was or would be on board with his decision. This interpretation provides the worse light.

There are also many interpretation in the middle. I have no idea what his motivations may have been.

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I'm not entirely convinced that he wasn't. You see, I don't know Irsay very well, so I have no idea where his priorities lie.

It may very well be that his friendship with Peyton is genuine, and he sacrificed his own reputation by seeming to be playing games with the fans to afford Peyton as much time to decide in favor of retirement after his aggressive rehabbing until the very last week provided by the contract. This interpretation provides the best light.

Another interpretation would be that Irsay likes to be in the limelight, so he makes these blurts to play games with the fans, while always knowing the final direction he would take, regardless if Peyton was or would be on board with his decision. This interpretation provides the worse light.

There are also many interpretation in the middle. I have no idea what his motivations may have been.

Well I go with this one knowing Irsay's fondness of wine and "other things" ...

In my circles we call it "late night keyboard snipering" ... hehee...

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I'm not entirely convinced that he wasn't. You see, I don't know Irsay very well, so I have no idea where his priorities lie.

It may very well be that his friendship with Peyton is genuine, and he sacrificed his own reputation by seeming to be playing games with the fans to afford Peyton as much time to decide in favor of retirement after his aggressive rehabbing until the very last week provided by the contract. This interpretation provides the best light.

Another interpretation would be that Irsay likes to be in the limelight, so he makes these blurts to play games with the fans, while always knowing the final direction he would take, regardless if Peyton was or would be on board with his decision. This interpretation provides the worse light.

There are also many interpretation in the middle. I have no idea what his motivations may have been.

It's obvious the people project what they would have done onto Irsay, even if it's subconsciously. It's basic psychology. Though, some one would probably say that Irsay wasn't smart enough to do either lol.

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I'm not entirely convinced that he wasn't. You see, I don't know Irsay very well, so I have no idea where his priorities lie.

It may very well be that his friendship with Peyton is genuine, and he sacrificed his own reputation by seeming to be playing games with the fans to afford Peyton as much time to decide in favor of retirement after his aggressive rehabbing until the very last week provided by the contract. This interpretation provides the best light.

Another interpretation would be that Irsay likes to be in the limelight, so he makes these blurts to play games with the fans, while always knowing the final direction he would take, regardless if Peyton was or would be on board with his decision. This interpretation provides the worse light.

There are also many interpretation in the middle. I have no idea what his motivations may have been.

If I am right in the end, does this change your opinion on him? I think forgivness is key, but if i'm right about his motives and luck doesnt pan out well. This will define who he is forever, in the NFL at least. (he could also be a genious, but thats not how I view it so far)

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If I am right in the end, does this change your opinion on him? I think forgivness is key, but if i'm right about his motives and luck doesnt pan out well. This will define who he is forever, in the NFL at least. (he could also be a genious, but thats not how I view it so far)

Funny how you make ZERO mention of how you could be wrong....

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If I am right in the end, does this change your opinion on him? I think forgivness is key, but if i'm right about his motives and luck doesnt pan out well. This will define who he is forever, in the NFL at least. (he could also be a genious, but thats not how I view it so far)

If you are correct about Irsay's motivations, it does not really change my opinion of him. It is no more eccentric and devious than many other corporate franchise owners.

If Luck does not pan out, then Irsay will be known as the * who cut Manning for a dud.

If Luck pans out, then Irsay will be seen as a genius.

If Manning goes on to play in 2012 with a new team, and he does not pan out, then Irsay would be seen as a genius.

If Manning goes on to play in 2012 with a new team, and retires during the season or soon thereafter, Irsay would also be seen as a genius.

If Manning goes on to play in 2012 with a new team, and wins the SB, then Irsay may be seen as the facilitator that helped Manning get another ring.

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If you are correct about Irsay's motivations, it does not really change my opinion of him. It is no more eccentric and devious than many other corporate franchise owners.

If Luck does not pan out, then Irsay will be known as the * who cut Manning for a dud.

If Luck pans out, then Irsay will be seen as a genius.

If Manning goes on to play in 2012 with a new team, and he does not pan out, then Irsay would be seen as a genius.

If Manning goes on to play in 2012 with a new team, and retires during the season or soon thereafter, Irsay would also be seen as a genius.

If Manning goes on to play in 2012 with a new team, and wins the SB, then Irsay may be seen as the facilitator that helped Manning get another ring.

I am sure that this split was mutual... the problem was weaning so many Colt fans, who are not of they Peyton baba or blankie, into a smooth "letdown".

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I am sure that this split was mutual... the problem was weaning so many Colt fans, who are not of they Peyton baba or blankie, into a smooth "letdown".

Yes, I also think the split was mutual.

I think Irsay wanted PM to retire, out of concern for his "health".

I think PM did not want to retire and still wants to play.

Hence the split.

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You have followed the Colts for about 40 years yet didn't feel compeled to post until you could rip Irsay. Interesting that you could not post when he picked Peyton number one as a highly touted quarterback out of college. Did you not feel then that we were headed into years of "rotating quarterbacks and coaches". What did you see in Peyton then that made him less of a risk than Luck? HMMMMMM!!!!!

Hmmmmm.....could it be that I felt compeled to post yesterday because that was the first time I checked out the forum and joined???? As a fan....I have my opinion of the Irsay's running of the franchise...just like you or anyone else. Why would I rip Irsay about the Peyton pick...Polian was presedent then and pulled the trigger on that draft. I didn't have very high expectations for the Colts back then, we had been pretty mediocre for most of the years that the Irsay's had owned the team. Except for the Harbaugh period and a short gilmpse of what might have been with Bert Jones, I didn't expect any QB to be the savior of the Colts. The fact is Polian made a great pick with Peyton and it had implictions far beyond the QB spot. So...we are going to find out soon if Jim has any skills at rebuilding a team....judging on the track record of the Colts before Polian I am not sure he does...time will tell....and like a lot of other people that are posting here, I don't have a problem with Irsay making a buiness decession. I just have a problem with the way he handled the whole process. Anyway...thanks for welcoming me to the board...lol
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Can someone help me out, please?

Both Peyton and Irsay said that the circumstances were the third guy in all conversations. I am not 100% sure but what do they exactly mean with "circumstances"? I mean, it can definitely not be the salary cap as Irsay made it clear from the very first sentence that the decision to release Manning was not about money (and as a consequence not an issue with regards to the cap). The next thing that comes to my mind then is the total change on all levels of the organization. But who made these changes and - with doing this - invited the third guy to the conversation? And why took it until the 7th of March to come to a decision that was obviously so "unavoidable" and "crystal clear" for months

I am sorry but the whole subject has got a smack (or aftertaste or whatever the propher phrase is) for me. And it would be interesting to know the role of "talk ball" Grigson in all this drama.

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Some of you guys make me sick. The NFL is a business, not a family. Irsay did what he had to do and is giving Peyton another shot to win late in his career. If any of you paid attention, Irsay kept referring to 2001 when he didn't have any talent to surround Peyton with. Irsay basically sat up there and said, "Peyton, our team sucks, we love you, we are forever indebted to you, but you cannot win here". How can you be angry with that? Irsay did Peyton the greatest favor of all yet there's individuals disgusted with the organization. It's a business people, not a family. As for myself, I'm glad Peyton is gone. Did I cry? # yeah I did. That man is the one who got me interested in football to begin with. Sure it would have been great if Peyton got to stay and finish is career, but for what? A couple of losing seasons that everybody will remember? Let the Peyton fans follow him wherever he goes, true Colts fans love this team dearly, but understand the difference between a business and a family.

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Get over it you cry babies. He's gone. The king is dead, long live the king. One funny itme raised yesterday on the NFL network was the following; "Indianapolis should rent a Mayflower truck and drop Manning off in Baltimore". (If you were around when the Colts snuck out of Baltimore you will get that.)

Hats off to Manning as yesterday we saw what a class act he is. You rarely see anyone in pro sports thank so many people while not bragging on themselves about how great they are. You #18 and "Old High Tops" #19 have brought great joy and great heartache and I am fortunate to be a Colt fans sine 1957. The Colts are very fortunate to follow up with a kid like Luck. Look at Denver since Elway left and Miami since Marino left and San Franscico since Montana split. We will be OK, trust me.

P.S. Hey Brady, he ain't out of your hair yet!

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Can someone help me out, please?

Both Peyton and Irsay said that the circumstances were the third guy in all conversations. I am not 100% sure but what do they exactly mean with "circumstances"? I mean, it can definitely not be the salary cap as Irsay made it clear from the very first sentence that the decision to release Manning was not about money (and as a consequence not an issue with regards to the cap). The next thing that comes to my mind then is the total change on all levels of the organization. But who made these changes and - with doing this - invited the third guy to the conversation? And why took it until the 7th of March to come to a decision that was obviously so "unavoidable" and "crystal clear" for months

I am sorry but the whole subject has got a smack (or aftertaste or whatever the propher phrase is) for me. And it would be interesting to know the role of "talk ball" Grigson in all this drama.

circumstances = peyton's injury and having the #1 pick. If they were lowing in the draft order, Peyton would be staying put.

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