Quincy Wilson = Bust

[Pacergeek]

If these reports are true, that Quincy pouted when asked to play special teams, this is the most bust thing I have ever heard. Dude was not good enough to play CB on the 31st ranked defense, and had the audacity to cry about his assigned role. This does not seem like a "Horseshoe" kind of player, and I have no idea what the hell Ballard was thinking by drafting him

[SteelCityColt]

32 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

People really think Wilson will turn out as a HOF player? There is 0.0 percent chance of this happening. Not sure what Reggie Wayne has to do with a busted draft pick, but whatever

 

Don’t be deliberately obtuse, people were not high on the Wayne pick after his first season, that’s the relevance. The point wasn’t Wilson will be a HOF player more that it’s too soon to write a draftee off after a season. 

 

You ignore any form of evidenced challenge to your view point and continue to just post diatribec opinion. 

 

If you really think he’s a bust, break down his play from last year (yes he saw the field) and show us the X and Os reasoning, or compare his stats to other 1st CBs who saw limited time and look at their career trajectories for comparison.

[a06cc]

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Don’t be deliberately obtuse, people were not high on the Wayne pick after his first season, that’s the relevance. The point wasn’t Wilson will be a HOF player more that it’s too soon to write a draftee off after a season. 

 

You ignore any form of evidenced challenge to your view point and continue to just post diatribec opinion. 

 

If you really think he’s a bust, break down his play from last year (yes he saw the field) and show us the X and Os reasoning, or compare his stats to other 1st CBs who saw limited time and look at their career trajectories for comparison.

That Wayne pick was also used to justify the pick of Phillip Dorsett. I’m on the “wait and see” approach with Wilson. 

[SteelCityColt]

1 minute ago, a06cc said:

That Wayne pick was also used to justify the pick of Phillip Dorsett. I’m on the “wait and see” approach with Wilson. 

 

It’s not justifying the pick as such, more why you wait and see.

[a06cc]

Just now, SteelCityColt said:

 

It’s not justifying the pick as such, more why you wait and see.

No I’m pointing to the fact when Grigson drafted Dorsett. He used the fact that people weren’t high on Reggie Wayne being picked. That’s all I’m saying. My last sentence states how I feel about Wilson. 

[gspdx]

Is it possible Ballard missed on this guy?  Sure.  I would bet every GM has missed on some guys.  Does that mean Ballard is a lousy GM?

 

And comparing him to Grigson?  I was more than willing to give Grigson time to build this team.  My original thoughts were that he would need 4 years at least.  

 

Give Wilson some time - maybe he will work out.  And give Ballard some time.  Maybe he doesn't do things like you would.  Do you think if you were GM all of your moves would work out?

[OffensivelyPC]

Stupid is as stupid does.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Don’t be deliberately obtuse, people were not high on the Wayne pick after his first season, that’s the relevance. The point wasn’t Wilson will be a HOF player more that it’s too soon to write a draftee off after a season. 

 

You ignore any form of evidenced challenge to your view point and continue to just post diatribec opinion. 

 

If you really think he’s a bust, break down his play from last year (yes he saw the field) and show us the X and Os reasoning, or compare his stats to other 1st CBs who saw limited time and look at their career trajectories for comparison.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but to OPs point, Reggie was the exception.  Rarely does a 1st round pick who doesn't do much his first two years turn out to be a very good player, let alone potential HOF.

 

Werner, TRich, Dorsett, all stunk immediately and never recovered.  Same with a lot of the players on other teams who were drafted fairly high but never played much their rookie year.

 

So the issues with Wilson are certainly calls for concern.  I wouldn't call him a bust, but I don't know if he will be the next Vontae either, if the pattern holds.

[SteelCityColt]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I don't have a dog in this fight, but to OPs point, Reggie was the exception.  Rarely does a 1st round pick who doesn't do much his first two years turn out to be a very good player, let alone potential HOF.

 

Werner, TRich, Dorsett, all stunk immediately and never recovered.  Same with a lot of the players on other teams who were drafted fairly high but never did much their rookie year.

 

So the issues with Wilson are certainly calls for concern.  I wouldn't call him a bust, but I don't know if he will be the next Vontae either, if the pattern holds.

 

The challenge to the OP was more he was deliberately misconstruing the Wayne comment to make a straw man. To be clear I’m not sold on Wilson, but I am sold on the idea of not writing a player off after one season. 

 

Interesting that you mention Vontae.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

The challenge to the OP was more he was deliberately misconstruing the Wayne comment to make a straw man. To be clear I’m not sold on Wilson, but I am sold on the idea of not writing a player off after one season. 

 

Interesting that you mention Vontae.

I thought the Wayne analogy was introduced by those discrediting the OPs claim about Wilson.  That we shouldn't call Wilson a bust because it took Wayne 3 years to see playing time.  I'm simply saying that Wayne is the exception.  Most first and second round players who are going to be pretty good players show that right away.  Not all, but most. Mid to early 1st rounders do to.

 

Addai, Sanders, Mewhort all played a lot and well as rookies.

 

OTOH: Rob Morris, Donald Brown, TJ Green, Djoun Smith in addition to the other players mentioned all played pretty poorly their rookie years, or not at all, and never had much of a career.  Coby Fleener played a lot, out of necessity mainly, but struggled mightily his first year...as a sign of things to come since he was never that good.

 

In fact, other than Wayne, I can't think of any player drafted in the first or second round who didn't see much PT their rookie year despite being healthy have a very good or long career.  But Wilson could be an exception too.

[John Waylon]

This thread is a bust. 

[Pacergeek]

4 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Don’t be deliberately obtuse, people were not high on the Wayne pick after his first season, that’s the relevance. The point wasn’t Wilson will be a HOF player more that it’s too soon to write a draftee off after a season. 

 

You ignore any form of evidenced challenge to your view point and continue to just post diatribec opinion. 

 

If you really think he’s a bust, break down his play from last year (yes he saw the field) and show us the X and Os reasoning, or compare his stats to other 1st CBs who saw limited time and look at their career trajectories for comparison.

This sounds like an extremely boring read/research project. I'm not going to invest time in a report for a silly message board

[aaron11]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

 

In fact, other than Wayne, I can't think of any player drafted in the first or second round who didn't see much PT their rookie year despite being healthy have a very good or long career. 

 tim jennings fits this criteria 

 

he did less than wilson his rookie year, but went on to have a good career with two pro bowls and once lead the league in interceptions 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 tim jennings fits this criteria 

 

he did less than wilson his rookie year, but went on to have a good career with two pro bowls and once lead the league in interceptions 

 

There are multiple examples of this

[Cynjin]

35 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

This sounds like an extremely boring read/research project. I'm not going to invest time in a report for a silly message board

 

In other words, you can't do it.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

In other words, you can't do it.

He wasn’t a Political Science/History Major because that is all I did for 5 Years

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

1 hour ago, Pacergeek said:

This sounds like an extremely boring read/research project. I'm not going to invest time in a report for a silly message board

 

Yeah it might take all of about a minute ...  I spent a minute finding this for you I 'm sure had you made an attempt you would have already realized how foolish you sound this link is for you however I'm convinced you will not use it . on this silly message board a little work is nice when forming an opinion .https://www.stampedeblue.com/2018/4/9/17188204/colts-draft-ranking-their-last-10-second-round-picks

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Here 's another minute of my time your welcome ''http://www.indianasportscoverage.com/colts-cb-quincy-wilsons-second-season-is-crucial-for-both-him-and-chris-ballard/

[DougDew]

53 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 tim jennings fits this criteria 

 

he did less than wilson his rookie year, but went on to have a good career with two pro bowls and once lead the league in interceptions 

 

That's certainly promising.

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

Here 's another minute of my time your welcome ''http://www.indianasportscoverage.com/colts-cb-quincy-wilsons-second-season-is-crucial-for-both-him-and-chris-ballard/

Just reading the headline.  I have no idea why anything Wilson does or doesn't do is crucial for Chris Ballard at this point.

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Just reading the headline.  I have no idea why anything Wilson does or doesn't do is crucial for Chris Ballard at this point.

He has to find a replacement if needed

 

    

 

  

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

He has to find a replacement if needed

 

    

 

  

I get that, but you can say that about Melvin too last sping, or any player that blows up a knee this year.  I guess I wouldn't use the words crucial for Ballard, as in personally.  Maybe important for the Colts.  Semantics I guess.

[PrincetonTiger]

14 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I get that, but you can say that about Melvin too last sping, or any player that blows up a knee this year.  I guess I wouldn't use the words crucial for Ballard, as in personally.  Maybe important for the Colts.  Semantics I guess.

No Problems

[Indyfan4life]

7 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

People really think Wilson will turn out as a HOF player? There is 0.0 percent chance of this happening. Not sure what Reggie Wayne has to do with a busted draft pick, but whatever

Your thinking and logical skills are amazing. 

[Coffeedrinker]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

I thought the Wayne analogy was introduced by those discrediting the OPs claim about Wilson.  That we shouldn't call Wilson a bust because it took Wayne 3 years to see playing time.  I'm simply saying that Wayne is the exception.  Most first and second round players who are going to be pretty good players show that right away.  Not all, but most. Mid to early 1st rounders do to.

 

Addai, Sanders, Mewhort all played a lot and well as rookies.

 

OTOH: Rob Morris, Donald Brown, TJ Green, Djoun Smith in addition to the other players mentioned all played pretty poorly their rookie years, or not at all, and never had much of a career.  Coby Fleener played a lot, out of necessity mainly, but struggled mightily his first year...as a sign of things to come since he was never that good.

 

In fact, other than Wayne, I can't think of any player drafted in the first or second round who didn't see much PT their rookie year despite being healthy have a very good or long career.  But Wilson could be an exception too.

There are a lot.

 

Drew Brees, Alan Branch, Gary Bracket are a few right off the top of my head.

[DougDew]

Just now, Coffeedrinker said:

There are a lot.

 

Drew Brees, Alan Branch, Gary Bracket are a few right off the top of my head.

Exclude QBs, because they either need some time or have Brett Farve playing in front of them (Aaron Rogers).

 

Bracket was drafted in the 2nd?  There are always players that come outta nowhere to beat out the more highly touted players.

 

Generally it seems, good players tend to show themselves early, regardless of draft position.  So if first or second rounders struggle to see the field much their rookie season, yes, I think that is cause for some concern.  Hey, I never said Wilson was a bust.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Exclude QBs, because they either need some time or have Brett Farve playing in front of them (Aaron Rogers).

 

Bracket was drafted in the 2nd?  There are always players that come outta nowhere to beat out the more highly touted players.

 

Generally it seems, good players tend to show themselves early, regardless of draft position.  So if first or second rounders struggle to see the field much their rookie season, yes, I think that is cause for some concern.  Hey, I never said Wilson was a bust.

Not claiming you did and yes I forgot the 1st 2nd round statement with Brackett.  But you can't dismiss Brees or any QB for that matter but Brees had a 39 year old Flutie playing in front of him who was horrible.  If what you are saying is true then it should apply to all.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Not claiming you did and yes I forgot the 1st 2nd round statement with Brackett.  But you can't dismiss Brees or any QB for that matter but Brees had a 39 year old Flutie playing in front of him who was horrible.  If what you are saying is true then it should apply to all.

OK.   The extent of me thinking about this has been limited to the time spent on this thread.

 

There are probably many in the NFL, I just can't think of any.  The Colts history of having 1st and 2nd rounders not playing their rookie year then playing well after that certainly isn't very good, except for Wayne.. 

[Coffeedrinker]

Just now, DougDew said:

OK.   The extent of me thinking about this has been limited to the time spent on this thread.

 

There are probably many in the NFL, I just can't think of any.  The Colts history of having 1st and 2nd rounders not playing their rookie year then playing well after that certainly isn't very good. 

Adam Meadows and Tarik Glenn.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Adam Meadows and Tarik Glenn.

Wasn't it the case Meadows started at T because Glenn held out until October so Ted then put him in at G?  LOL.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Wasn't it the case Meadows started at T because Glenn held out until October so Ted then put him in at G?  LOL.

Meadows was a tackle his entire career.  But yes Meadows played LT in which he did poorly and Glenn played guard in which he did poorly.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Meadows was a tackle his entire career.  But yes Meadows played LT in which he did poorly and Glenn played guard in which he did poorly.

Yeah, they were both playing out of position because of Glenn's holdout, and that was the funny part.  Meadows did OK at RT and of course Glenn was great at LT, starting when he played there his next year.

[colt18]

I've read reports that Kenny Moore is starting over Quincy Wilson?

 

 

Wonder if that's more on Wilson being bad or if Moore is just balling out

[Pacergeek]

8 minutes ago, colt18 said:

I've read reports that Kenny Moore is starting over Quincy Wilson?

 

 

Wonder if that's more on Wilson being bad or if Moore is just balling out

Combination of both. Moore is a humble kid, and a hard worker. Wilson is cocky, and if the reports are true, had a terrible work ethic as a Rookie. Ballard has said, regardless of where players get drafted, the best guy will play. This looks like a good example of the theory

[aaron11]

17 hours ago, DougDew said:

 

There are probably many in the NFL, I just can't think of any.  The Colts history of having 1st and 2nd rounders not playing their rookie year then playing well after that certainly isn't very good, except for Wayne.. 

and jennings 

[Blueblood23]

Didn't get to see the game, but did Wilson play well?

[Pacergeek]

11 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Didn't get to see the game, but did Wilson play well?

No

[Blueblood23]

7 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

No

So he is looking more like a bust than a diamond in the rough?

[Coffeedrinker]

12 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

So he is looking more like a bust than a diamond in the rough?

A couple of things:

 

One Wilson was the starter, so there is that.

Two:  Wilson didn't play too badly.  During the off season in this thread, I talked about how I didn't think Wilson would be a good fit for zone because he doesn't react quickly to the ball in the air.  And he showed that last night, IMO.  But other than that, it looked like he knew his role and what he was supposed to do every time and he did it.  His technique seemed good, meaning he flipped his hips at the correct time, he kept his eyes in the backfield when he was supposed to and he kept the receivers in front of him which a key component of a Cover 2 or Cover 3 type D.

 

If I were to grade his performance I would give him probably a B-.  Did more things right than wrong and one item (reaction with the ball in the air) I don't know if he can improve upon.

[hoosierhawk]

On ‎8‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 8:33 AM, Pacergeek said:

Combination of both. Moore is a humble kid, and a hard worker. Wilson is cocky, and if the reports are true, had a terrible work ethic as a Rookie. Ballard has said, regardless of where players get drafted, the best guy will play. This looks like a good example of the theory

Wilson started last night FYI.