Polian/Dungy vs Ballard/Reich defense

[dodsworth]

The Dungy defense was about the bend but don't break theory, so what will be the difference with Reich's defense compared to Dungy's?

 

Reich want's a platoon of defensive linemen to keep them fresh. Will this be

the difference between both coaches and the effectiveness of their defenses?

[CR91]

well im hoping we'll blitz more then just 2 or 3 times a game and we don't get slanted all the way to the end zone

[DaColts85]

I would say one huge difference is current D will be a group effort.  Dungy had two key rushers and allowed for everyone else to feed off of that.  Mathis/Freeney had nearly 20 per year while together.  Thats something good to count on.

 

That being said, Ballard seems to have more indications on building a stout D compared to Polian.  Now let's see how well Ballard does with having late round picks each year like Polian did though.

[Nesjan3]

My biggest problem with Dungy's defense was the vanilla Tampa 2 we had almost every play it seemed. Teams like the Pats could just throw little 5 yard passes, screens and dump offs all the way down the field. I never understood it and i used to get so frustrating watching teams just march down with ease. I hope Reichts defense is a lot more aggressive with the secondary.

[Jason_]

25 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

My biggest problem with Dungy's defense was the vanilla Tampa 2 we had almost every play it seemed. Teams like the Pats could just throw little 5 yard passes, screens and dump offs all the way down the field. I never understood it and i used to get so frustrating watching teams just march down with ease. I hope Reichts defense is a lot more aggressive with the secondary.

 

My biggest problems with the Dungy defense were the DTs he tried to use and the fact he seemed to not believe in Run defense.

[coltsfan_canada]

During Manusky era all we did was Blitz then we went from that to No Blitz to 2 ~ 3 Blitz a game. Let's hope we have some good pass rushers in those rookies that will be game changing. 

[dodsworth]

1 hour ago, DaColts85 said:

I would say one huge difference is current D will be a group effort.  Dungy had two key rushers and allowed for everyone else to feed off of that.  Mathis/Freeney had nearly 20 per year while together.  Thats something good to count on.

 

That being said, Ballard seems to have more indications on building a stout D compared to Polian.  Now let's see how well Ballard does with having late round picks each year like Polian did though.

Polian used his 1st rd picks on offense more often than not. Ballard 

used his 1st pick on offense but a trench player.

Polian liked his skill offensive skill players in the 

1st which I disagreed with him on that.

 

I agree with Ballard's personnel approach so far.

[DaColts85]

1 minute ago, dodsworth said:

Polian used his 1st rd picks on offense more often than not. Ballard 

used his 1st pick on offense but a trench player.

Polian liked his skill offensive skill players in the 

1st which I disagreed with him on that.

 

I agree with Ballard's personnel approach so far.

I agree but he also Drafted Freeney with one of his few early picks in the first round.  He is on record saying he saw more value in offensive players late in the first because top tier D guys are gone.  You have to find them in later rounds.  I do not agree with everything about him or his philosophy and that is clearly a difference between him and Ballard.

[lollygagger8]

Can we at least let this D get on the field and see for ourselves before making assumptions? 

 

[Coffeedrinker]

31 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Can we at least let this D get on the field and see for ourselves before making assumptions? 

 

That's just crazy talk lollygagger.

[BProland85]

What I'm hoping with this current defense is that Ballard will continually address the DL by creating wave after wave of disruption for the opposing offenses. 

[krunk]

I don't think it will be a whole lot different to be honest.   We ran a platoon system back then also with our D linemen. Freeney and Mathis stayed on the field for the most part for obvious reasons.  We have few established pass rushers on this squad so it's a full blown platoon.  I think the coverages will be similar to Seattle with more 2 Deep coverages sprinkled in..  Overall I don't think it will be a whole lot different than what we did in the past.  Interior D line seems like it's going to be a bit bulkier than what Dungy/Polian had and corners/safeties are taller.   Ballard seems to be less inclined to get undersized players than Dungy/Polian.  He is a stickler for gettting guys with good height weight speed. profiles.  Linebackers that Ballard wants seem to be a bit faster than the guys Dungy had.

[lollygagger8]

39 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

That's just crazy talk lollygagger.

 

I know.....crazy right? 

 

 

[Buck Showalter]

1 hour ago, lollygagger8 said:

Can we at least let this D get on the field and see for ourselves before making assumptions? 

 

Lol... beat me to it, I was gonna say that this would be a great topic to re-visit...

 

In Six Months!!!

 

 

[Myles]

I think the offense (mostly Manning) hid most issues with the Colts defense for years.   We've always had a defense that teams could run against, almost at will.   Manning managed to put such a fear into what the offense would do that teams gave up on their running game and went pass only.   Freeney would then pin his ears back and go get the QB.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

6 hours ago, dodsworth said:

The Dungy defense was about the bend but don't break theory, so what will be the difference with Reich's defense compared to Dungy's?

 

We will now be in Nickel, Big Nickel, and Dime more often.. The league has morphed into  multiple wide sets, and defense using more sub packages to counter.

 

6 hours ago, dodsworth said:

Reich want's a platoon of defensive linemen to keep them fresh. Will this be

the difference between both coaches and the effectiveness of their defenses?

 

I can see this, or have your star ends in ultra fantastic condition... because-

 

5 hours ago, CR91 said:

well im hoping we'll blitz more then just 2 or 3 times a game and we don't get slanted all the way to the end zone

 

blitzing from the Tampa 2 (or Cover 2) leaves a 'hole' in the zone. Very good experienced QB's 'see' this (anticipate it pre-snap) and hit the receiver that is 'hot' that fills the voided zone. So if you blitz, you pretty much have to 'get home', or possibly give up some chunk yards. Thus, Cover and Tampa 2 rely on rushing four DL. A lot. And the fresher, the better.

 

Quick difference between cover 2 and Tampa 2?  Tampa 2 the MLB's zone is bigger and deeper, and he drops much deeper in it making it more like cover 3.  So little slants over the middle in front of the MLB an Tampa 2 can be exploited. However, the MLB is exploited deeper in a typical cover 2, like receiver around 10 yards or so over the middle or more, and if you are Jerry Rice, make a guy miss and gain huge chunk yards.  So getting a team to run more very short plays gives D more chances for a turnover or other mistake  When team gets to red zone, the zones shrink and coverage is tighter.  So Red Zone D is supposed to create turnovers or force a FG.

[Scott Pennock]

Regardless of scheme, cover 2 or 3.....what I notice is more emphasis in the interior of the defensive line. 

 

Both Seattle and Chicago where Dodds, Ballard and Hogan built winners before, they had the big fellas in the middle to help stop the run AND they had pass rushers who also could set the edge.

 

While they didn't pile up sacks like Freeney and Mathis they also didn't get gashed by running underneath/inside them...love those two but it did drive me nuts at times.

 

They also prefer larger corners over the Jason David, Tim Jennings and David Macklins of the world.

 

The scheme may be similar but I think it will be played differently.

 

 

[dodsworth]

6 hours ago, krunk said:

I don't think it will be a whole lot different to be honest.   We ran a platoon system back then also with our D linemen. Freeney and Mathis stayed on the field for the most part for obvious reasons.  We have few established pass rushers on this squad so it's a full blown platoon.  I think the coverages will be similar to Seattle with more 2 Deep coverages sprinkled in..  Overall I don't think it will be a whole lot different than what we did in the past.  Interior D line seems like it's going to be a bit bulkier than what Dungy/Polian had and corners/safeties are taller.   Ballard seems to be less inclined to get undersized players than Dungy/Polian.  He is a stickler for gettting guys with good height weight speed. profiles.  Linebackers that Ballard wants seem to be a bit faster than the guys Dungy had.

So you are saying there will be no Keyonta Dawsons on the interior of the D line?

Seriously though, if Ballard can field faster linebackers than the Dungy teams then

The NFL should be put on notice. His defense would swarm like bees.

[krunk]

49 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

So you are saying there will be no Keyonta Dawsons on the interior of the D line?

Seriously though, if Ballard can field faster linebackers than the Dungy teams then

The NFL should be put on notice. His defense would swarm like bees.

 

49 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

So you are saying there will be no Keyonta Dawsons on the interior of the D line?

Seriously though, if Ballard can field faster linebackers than the Dungy teams then

The NFL should be put on notice. His defense would swarm like bees.

No more Keyunta!!!!! Most of our guys have good size and length.

[Dark Superman]

I'm not sure about our defense this year, but damn, TJ Green is killing it in Madden for me!

[Lucky Colts Fan]

9 hours ago, Myles said:

I think the offense (mostly Manning) hid most issues with the Colts defense for years.   We've always had a defense that teams could run against, almost at will.   Manning managed to put such a fear into what the offense would do that teams gave up on their running game and went pass only.   Freeney would then pin his ears back and go get the QB.  

 

You can't say it wasn't effective.

 

It made the infallible Bill Belichick throw the ball on 4th down on his own half of the field on the road... just to try and keep the ball out of Mannings' hands.

 

Ahhh... good times... 

[Myles]

7 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

You can't say it wasn't effective.

 

It made the infallible Bill Belichick throw the ball on 4th down on his own half of the field on the road... just to try and keep the ball out of Mannings' hands.

 

Ahhh... good times... 

I'm with you.

I remember so many games where a team was rushing for over 6 yards a carry and then, BOOM, they stopped running the ball.   I think the Jags were the only team that didn't go pass first in the second halves.   Do you remember that game where Fred Taylor rushed for over 130 yards and Jones Drew rushed for over 165?   In the same game.   I think they had a backup that also rushed for 50+ yards in the same game.  

[ColtStrong2013]

Polians first two drafts 

1997

1-G

2-T

3-LB

4-DB

5-WR

5-DE

6-LB

 

1998

1-QB

2-WR

3-WR

4- G

5-LB

 

Ballards first two drafts

2017

1- S

2- DB

3-DE

4- T

4- RB

4- DT

5-DB 

5-LB

 

2018

1- G

2-LB

2-G 

2-DE

2-DE

4-RB

5-WR

5- RB

6-WR

 

Ballard's 9 defensive picks in top 6 rounds versus Polian's 5... I left off 7th rounds because it makes it even more uneven in Ballard's favor. 

 

Polian started drafting heavy on defense in the mid 2000s, and we saw those produce in the superbowl run in 06-07 and again in 09-10. I'm hopeful that Ballard's defense and inside-out approach early on, combined with acquiring draft capital will help build those areas up for the long haul... that will be the difference in Polian and Ballard rosters.  

[bleevit]

In 2006 the Colts defense had two phases, with and without Bob Sanders. Without Sanders Colonel Sanders could have rushed for 100 yards. When Bob came back the D was shutting everyone's rushing game down. IMHO the current Colts D will rely on the safety play to a large degree as well. Of course, the need for a solid pass rush will still be here, but stopping the run in a Tampa 2 requires the safeties to step up.

[Smonroe]

20 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Can we at least let this D get on the field and see for ourselves before making assumptions? 

 

 

Yeah, my issue is that I really don't know who or what the "Ballard/Reich" defense is yet.

 

I think one thing we do know is that no one on the defense is straining the salary cap.  Sheard and Autrey are the highest paid players as far as I can tell, and they don't exactly have mega-contracts.

 

So, maybe there's room to bring in a few FA's?  One decent experienced starter at LB, S, and CB would sure make that D look better to me!

[CR91]

16 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

blitzing from the Tampa 2 (or Cover 2) leaves a 'hole' in the zone. Very good experienced QB's 'see' this (anticipate it pre-snap) and hit the receiver that is 'hot' that fills the voided zone. So if you blitz, you pretty much have to 'get home', or possibly give up some chunk yards. Thus, Cover and Tampa 2 rely on rushing four DL. A lot. And the fresher, the better.

 

Quick difference between cover 2 and Tampa 2?  Tampa 2 the MLB's zone is bigger and deeper, and he drops much deeper in it making it more like cover 3.  So little slants over the middle in front of the MLB an Tampa 2 can be exploited. However, the MLB is exploited deeper in a typical cover 2, like receiver around 10 yards or so over the middle or more, and if you are Jerry Rice, make a guy miss and gain huge chunk yards.  So getting a team to run more very short plays gives D more chances for a turnover or other mistake  When team gets to red zone, the zones shrink and coverage is tighter.  So Red Zone D is supposed to create turnovers or force a FG.

 

I understand how the concept and coverage scheme works. My biggest issue with it is how we were never aggressive with it. Our defense was very easy to beat because all offenses had to do was run quick slants or curls since the CBs were off the WR by ten yards or run stick routes with the RB or TE because the middle was always open. Or just do draw plays or zone runs because the cutback lane was bigger then donald trump's hair. All im saying is the "bend, but dont break philosophy" had a lot of fans cringing with the lack of aggression and predictability

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 5/31/2018 at 11:50 AM, dodsworth said:

The Dungy defense was about the bend but don't break theory, so what will be the difference with Reich's defense compared to Dungy's?

 

Reich want's a platoon of defensive linemen to keep them fresh. Will this be

the difference between both coaches and the effectiveness of their defenses?

 

I also wanted to point something out to folks about the relationship of this D to Tony Dungy's. Dungy got the basics from playing the original Cover 2 (the Steel Curtain) under Bud Carson in Pittsburgh. However, as a coach, he and Monte Kiffin modified it and came up with the semi-cover 3 aspect (MLB) and it was dubbed the Tampa two.  The Dungy/Kiffin D (notably in Tampa) was based upn these principles-

I'm not sure how much of it was retained when Dungy came over to the Colts, but Kiffin did not. Now, the relationship. Dungy's coaching tree has many names (Herm Edwards, Lovie Smith, Leslie Frazier, Mike Tomlin, etc...) but two more to know are Frank Reich, who entered the coaching ranks with the Colts in 2008 under Dungy's last year at the helm, and Rod Marinelli. Matt Eberflus trained under Marinelli.  Yet the O and D schemes change and adapt. So there is a direct tie from this set of coaches back to Dungy, yet I'm sure they have put their own 'spin' on it since.

 

21 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

I understand how the concept and coverage scheme works. My biggest issue with it is how we were never aggressive with it. Our defense was very easy to beat because all offenses had to do was run quick slants or curls since the CBs were off the WR by ten yards or run stick routes with the RB or TE because the middle was always open. Or just do draw plays or zone runs because the cutback lane was bigger then donald trump's hair. All im saying is the "bend, but dont break philosophy" had a lot of fans cringing with the lack of aggression and predictability

 

My issue with it is with good receivers/QB that can run this (11 personnel on O, for D the SAM is replaced by a Nickel DB in a 4 -2 -5 ) and be effective, and not in a dink and dunk type yardage either.

 

 

Here, the slot and TE run to the flat. The corners funnel the Z and X receivers inside and sink to cover until the safety's can get on top of the receiver.  If CB's sink too deep, the QB hits the Y or W in the flat.  If they squat, then they look for the 7 route (flag) which finds a soft spot deep down the field between CB's and Safety's toward the sidelines/corner.  Also, if QB and the receiver see the same thing in coverage by safety's, they can adjust to safety play by deceiving him into covering the 7 and then run the Post instead. (a conversion route). So many teams have conversion routes built in to their scheme.  Receiver and QB have to 'see' the same thing to execute it though. I'd say there probably aren't all that many 'run  it' (no changes) routes anymore. Seeing teams hit on this play gets me much more than the little dink and dunk stuff down the field.

 

[ColtStrong2013]

23 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Yeah, my issue is that I really don't know who or what the "Ballard/Reich" defense is yet.

 

I think one thing we do know is that no one on the defense is straining the salary cap.  Sheard and Autrey are the highest paid players as far as I can tell, and they don't exactly have mega-contracts.

 

So, maybe there's room to bring in a few FA's?  One decent experienced starter at LB, S, and CB would sure make that D look better to me!

I think that will be the approach next offseason. No way Ballard was going to splurge on a player this year when he is intrigued by certain players on the roster in this new defense. Give the new staff and defense a year to evaluate and go into next offseason ready to fill spots that need to be addressed in Free Agency (whether spending big money or not) and go rolling into the draft ready to nail it without drafting to need.

[Jason_]

On 6/1/2018 at 10:55 AM, CR91 said:

 

I understand how the concept and coverage scheme works. My biggest issue with it is how we were never aggressive with it. Our defense was very easy to beat because all offenses had to do was run quick slants or curls since the CBs were off the WR by ten yards or run stick routes with the RB or TE because the middle was always open. Or just do draw plays or zone runs because the cutback lane was bigger then donald trump's hair. All im saying is the "bend, but dont break philosophy" had a lot of fans cringing with the lack of aggression and predictability

 

To be fair, the height of the predictability and vanilla - Ness of the scheme came under Caldwell and coyer, not dungy and Meeks. 

 

 

Personally I think the new colt defense will be closer to Seattle's than to dungys. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, J@son said:

 

To be fair, the height of the predictability and vanilla - Ness of the scheme came under Caldwell and coyer, not dungy and Meeks. 

 

 

Personally I think the new colt defense will be closer to Seattle's than to dungys. 

 

The Los Angeles Chargers defensive coordinator Gus Bradley, Atlanta defensive coordinator Marquand Manuel, San Francisco defensive coordinator Robert Saleh, Atlanta head coach Dan Quinn, and Jacksonville defensive coordinator Todd Wash have all spent time in Seattle under Pete Carroll. I do not believe either Marinelli or Eberflus have though.    I think Seahawks D is a 4 -3 with some  3 - 4 quirks.  They often get 8 men in the box with the purpose of stopping run first. In pass, while Tampa 2 gets a cover 3 look from a deep dropping MLB and 2 safety's, the Seahawk D often does cover 3 with a single high (sideline to sideline) safety and two deep dropping corners (often bump and run coverage). So it will be easy to see which way we go .  Both use undersized and fast LB's, and 4 DL trying to create pressure.

[Jason_]

17 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

The Los Angeles Chargers defensive coordinator Gus Bradley, Atlanta defensive coordinator Marquand Manuel, San Francisco defensive coordinator Robert Saleh, Atlanta head coach Dan Quinn, and Jacksonville defensive coordinator Todd Wash have all spent time in Seattle under Pete Carroll. I do not believe either Marinelli or Eberflus have though.    I think Seahawks D is a 4 -3 with some  3 - 4 quirks.  They often get 8 men in the box with the purpose of stopping run first. In pass, while Tampa 2 gets a cover 3 look from a deep dropping MLB and 2 safety's, the Seahawk D often does cover 3 with a single high (sideline to sideline) safety and two deep dropping corners (often bump and run coverage). So it will be easy to see which way we go .  Both use undersized and fast LB's, and 4 DL trying to create pressure.

 

All good points. However superman posted some information about how Dallas has incorporated mane of Seattle's Concepts in their D the past couple of years. 

 

One big difference with Pete Carroll's defense is that he runs a 43 but with personnel closer suited to a 34.  Not many 43 teams start 3 DL that are all over 300 lbs. Seattle does and if you check out the depth chart for Dallas last year, they did too and I'd be very surprised if that ever happened under Marinelli in Chicago. So I should have been more clear, I was referring to personnel in the front 7,not coverage schemes. But I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of variety in coverages as well.  In fact I'd hope there will be variety lol. 

[Jason_]

I also wouldn't call Seattle's Lbs 'undersized'. Of their 3 projected starters (Wagner, Wright and Mingo according to ESPN) , they were all over 240 lbs and only Wagner would be considered shortish at 6'. They definitely emphasize speed but they want size on their guys as well and That I think is what we're seeing Ballard look for as well. He hopefully won't be converting any safeties or CBs to play LB in our base scheme like dungy did

[ColtsBlueFL]

48 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

All good points. However superman posted some information about how Dallas has incorporated mane of Seattle's Concepts in their D the past couple of years. 

 

I'll have to see if I can find that.  OK, found an article about it-

 

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2015/6/14/8777905/dallas-cowboys-defense-doesnt-fit-typical-4-3-definition

 

All schemes morph to some degree.  But origins are important too. I know Dallas just got the old Seattle D coordinator on board as secondary coach and pass D coordinator, Kris Richard.  He will use the DB up on the LOS in press cover, and they'll utilize the step kick technique (read-step). I'm not fully convinced we'll do that... yet.

 

Marinelli (Dallas D coordinator) was a Dungy product, as is Eberflus, as he mentions here-
 

Q:  'Are Rod Marinelli and Monte Kiffin two of your mentors?'

 

A:  “Absolutely, and Coach (Tony) Dungy. Yes. So, Coach Dungy is a mentor of mine in many ways. And Coach Marinelli, I got a chance to work with him for the last five years or so. And Coach Kiffin for a couple years there as well. Those guys have all been great teaching the system and really executing the system. Really teaching the fundamentals of the core of what the system is really about.”

 

So core values will be the same, schematic difference might still be there as well.

 

So we'll see how the team plays in base, nickel, big nickel, etc...  see what changes have been made in this passing focus era, then we'll know.

 

Quote

One big difference with Pete Carroll's defense is that he runs a 43 but with personnel closer suited to a 34.  Not many 43 teams start 3 DL that are all over 300 lbs. Seattle does and if you check out the depth chart for Dallas last year, they did too and I'd be very surprised if that ever happened under Marinelli in Chicago. So I should have been more clear, I was referring to personnel in the front 7,not coverage schemes. But I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of variety in coverages as well.  In fact I'd hope there will be variety lol. 

 

I'd have to look up the Bears DL, but Marinelli has been the Cowboys defense coordinator for the last 4 years.  So Eberflus has been involved with their scheme/player choices. And he has to make personnel decisions / position changes going form a 3 - 4 back to a 4 - 3.  Again, we'll have to wait and see how we line up and play.

[ColtStrong2013]

15 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

The Los Angeles Chargers defensive coordinator Gus Bradley, Atlanta defensive coordinator Marquand Manuel, San Francisco defensive coordinator Robert Saleh, Atlanta head coach Dan Quinn, and Jacksonville defensive coordinator Todd Wash have all spent time in Seattle under Pete Carroll. I do not believe either Marinelli or Eberflus have though.    I think Seahawks D is a 4 -3 with some  3 - 4 quirks.  They often get 8 men in the box with the purpose of stopping run first. In pass, while Tampa 2 gets a cover 3 look from a deep dropping MLB and 2 safety's, the Seahawk D often does cover 3 with a single high (sideline to sideline) safety and two deep dropping corners (often bump and run coverage). So it will be easy to see which way we go .  Both use undersized and fast LB's, and 4 DL trying to create pressure.

Coaching staff wise, they are not tied to Seattle. Player personnel wise, Ed Dodds was Vice President of personnel responsible for bringing in the defense that went to 2 straight superbowls... Without a doubt this defense is being constructed to resemble Seattle's defense more than any other.

[ColtsBlueFL]

35 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Coaching staff wise, they are not tied to Seattle. Player personnel wise, Ed Dodds was Vice President of personnel responsible for bringing in the defense that went to 2 straight superbowls... Without a doubt this defense is being constructed to resemble Seattle's defense more than any other.

 

Defensive Coordinator -  The Defensive Coordinator manages the roster of defensive players, oversees the assistant coaches, develops the defensive game plan, and calls plays for the defense during the game.

 

GM - "In the NFL, the general manager is the highest standing employee in the team’s personnel department.

He answers directly to the owner and has final veto power on all player-related decisions the team makes. Job responsibilities include hiring the head coach, building the remainder of the personnel department staff, coordinating the rubric for scouting college prospects and compiling the team's roster in accordance to the NFL’s salary cap.

Clearly, the general manager can’t possibly handle all of these tasks personally. He divvies up the labor amongst his other front office staffers, but the general manager ultimately is accountable for all of the team’s personnel decisions."

 

Ed Dodds
"After one season as a national scout, and entering his ninth season in Seattle, Ed Dodds is now the team’s senior personnel executive where he will help evaluate both college and pro talent."

 

Rex Hogan
"The Jets are losing Rex Hogan, their senior college scouting director, to the Colts. Hogan had been a national scout for Chicago since 2012. Before that, he was a college scout for the Bears since 2003."

 

Yes, these guys definitely have Ballards ear, but it is Eberflus to determine the D playbook and define the type of talent in players that fit the roles of the scheme.  The staff under Dodds, Hogan, and Ballard are to find and evaluate player talent to fill those roles. Brian Decker (former special forces) is the guy with a process to look at the character base and then help Ballard make decisions on what they can handle (red flag guys).

 

Brian Decker

"When the Colts are looking to sign a player, Ballard confirmed that the player will have to meet with Brian Decker. So essentially, his job is going to be trying to gather together all of the background information possible on the player and then formulate opinions based on the process that he’s developed over the years - and that, at least in the military, has been proven to work."

 

In addition, everyone has hybrid defenses these days.  4-3 with 3-4 aspects.  3-4 with 4-3 aspects.  lot's of deception and sub packages. I'll know when I see how our secondary defends most often.  If we walk the strong safety down into the box, leave Hooker out in center field, and have our cornerbacks play bump and run press coverage on the receivers (even deep) consistently, then I'll believe it we are Seattle lite.  If both our safety's stay back, our MLB drops, and our CB's use outside leverage to jam receivers and funnel them inside, then drop back 5-10 yards to cover their zone and yet come back up to handle anything thrown to the flat, then we are more like the Tampa 2.  Deciding factor? What skills do the guys currently on the roster possess that fits a certain scheme?  These coaches know they have to adapt their scheme some to the skill sets of the players on hand.  If they can handle it, they will be called on to do either depending upon situation.

 

This is the way I see it at the moment.

[Stephen]

On 6/1/2018 at 9:17 AM, Myles said:

I'm with you.

I remember so many games where a team was rushing for over 6 yards a carry and then, BOOM, they stopped running the ball.   I think the Jags were the only team that didn't go pass first in the second halves.   Do you remember that game where Fred Taylor rushed for over 130 yards and Jones Drew rushed for over 165?   In the same game.   I think they had a backup that also rushed for 50+ yards in the same game.  

Jags blew us out that game

[ColtsBlueFL]

8 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Jags blew us out that game

 

We won the Super Bowl that year...

 

Yes, the infamous Jags "375" run game.  The only thing that stopped the Jags running backs that day was the end zone line. (looked to me like the perfect storm of poor gap control combined with lack of tackling)

 

For those that can stomach the replay highlights-

 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

21 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Defensive Coordinator -  The Defensive Coordinator manages the roster of defensive players, oversees the assistant coaches, develops the defensive game plan, and calls plays for the defense during the game.

 

GM - "In the NFL, the general manager is the highest standing employee in the team’s personnel department.

He answers directly to the owner and has final veto power on all player-related decisions the team makes. Job responsibilities include hiring the head coach, building the remainder of the personnel department staff, coordinating the rubric for scouting college prospects and compiling the team's roster in accordance to the NFL’s salary cap.

Clearly, the general manager can’t possibly handle all of these tasks personally. He divvies up the labor amongst his other front office staffers, but the general manager ultimately is accountable for all of the team’s personnel decisions."

 

Ed Dodds
"After one season as a national scout, and entering his ninth season in Seattle, Ed Dodds is now the team’s senior personnel executive where he will help evaluate both college and pro talent."

 

Rex Hogan
"The Jets are losing Rex Hogan, their senior college scouting director, to the Colts. Hogan had been a national scout for Chicago since 2012. Before that, he was a college scout for the Bears since 2003."

 

Yes, these guys definitely have Ballards ear, but it is Eberflus to determine the D playbook and define the type of talent in players that fit the roles of the scheme.  The staff under Dodds, Hogan, and Ballard are to find and evaluate player talent to fill those roles. Brian Decker (former special forces) is the guy with a process to look at the character base and then help Ballard make decisions on what they can handle (red flag guys).

 

Brian Decker

"When the Colts are looking to sign a player, Ballard confirmed that the player will have to meet with Brian Decker. So essentially, his job is going to be trying to gather together all of the background information possible on the player and then formulate opinions based on the process that he’s developed over the years - and that, at least in the military, has been proven to work."

 

In addition, everyone has hybrid defenses these days.  4-3 with 3-4 aspects.  3-4 with 4-3 aspects.  lot's of deception and sub packages. I'll know when I see how our secondary defends most often.  If we walk the strong safety down into the box, leave Hooker out in center field, and have our cornerbacks play bump and run press coverage on the receivers (even deep) consistently, then I'll believe it we are Seattle lite.  If both our safety's stay back, our MLB drops, and our CB's use outside leverage to jam receivers and funnel them inside, then drop back 5-10 yards to cover their zone and yet come back up to handle anything thrown to the flat, then we are more like the Tampa 2.  Deciding factor? What skills do the guys currently on the roster possess that fits a certain scheme?  These coaches know they have to adapt their scheme some to the skill sets of the players on hand.  If they can handle it, they will be called on to do either depending upon situation.

 

This is the way I see it at the moment.

Didn't Ballard hire Eberflus and then vouch strongly for him when his HC bailed? He basically forced Reich to inherit him as a DC... possibly because Eberflus vision was in line with what Ballard's vision on defense was?  He had his first draft as GM in which he brought in practically a new defensive secondary, pass rusher and inside linebacker before Eberflus was even mentioned... I think you are weighing too heavily on Eberflus' influence on how this defense will be run, and too lightly on Ballard's vision and influence on it. Ballard knew what defense he wanted to put together before he took this job and he brought Dodds in long before Eberflus. 

 

I agree with you in multiple defensive packages or sets. I think this defense will be a hybrid, maybe even mixture of Tampa 2 and Cover 3 that Seattle is known for. But I can't imagine Ballard bringing in a ballhawk safety in Hooker and rangy defensive backs in Wilson, Desir and Hairston to run a strict Tampa 2 base. Hooker is a centerfielder. Geathers is a down in the box safety like Kam Chancellor is... 

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Didn't Ballard hire Eberflus and then vouch strongly for him when his HC bailed? He basically forced Reich to inherit him as a DC... possibly because Eberflus vision was in line with what Ballard's vision on defense was? 

 

Yes. Please allow me to make the connections here.  Ballard was at the Bears from 2001-2011 as a Scout, and 2012 as Dir. of Pro Player Personnel. Who was head coach in that time? Lovie Smith, who learned his D craft under Tony Dungy.  Riverboat Ron was DC, until he left, then the Babich fail, that's when Rod Marinelli was brought in; who also worked with Lovie Smith under Tony Dungy in Tampa!  Eberflus learned under Rod Marinelli!  Ballard scouted for players for this HC / DC's in this base scheme.  Ballard is not only familiar with the scheme, but the type players necessary to make it work.  He knows Eberflus was the product of Marinelli, a branch (like Lovie Smith) off the Dungy coaching tree.

 

Reich played for the Bills under Levy and Polian.  When Polian started with the Colts in 1998, he called Reich to join them. Reich refused and left football for 8 years, then called Polian mid 2000's... he wanted in.  He was intern, QC coach then became Manning's QB coach, and the Dungy Tampa 2 was the defense during that time. Reich knows Dungy, and the Tampa 2 as well. It all fits. 

 

So Dodds, Hogan, Eberflus, and all of the scouts report to Ballard.  But who designs and runs the D show every Sunday? Who can make Ballard look good... or... not so good in the W or L column?  Who designs D schemes?  Who is responsible for coaching them?  Yes, I think Eberflus has solid input.  And all of this is stuff Jim Irsay is also very familiar with.  And I'll wager he had some say as well.

 

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

He had his first draft as GM in which he brought in practically a new defensive secondary, pass rusher and inside linebacker before Eberflus was even mentioned... I think you are weighing too heavily on Eberflus' influence on how this defense will be run, and too lightly on Ballard's vision and influence on it. Ballard knew what defense he wanted to put together before he took this job and he brought Dodds in long before Eberflus. 

 

 

Hmmm....

 

“I got to know Matt Eberflus a few years ago and was blown away by Matt,” Ballard said. “Matt was a coveted coach. He’s a very talented defensive coordinator. I feel very lucky to have Matt Eberflus in the building running a scheme that I think fits our team that we can scout for.”

 

 

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

I agree with you in multiple defensive packages or sets. I think this defense will be a hybrid, maybe even mixture of Tampa 2 and Cover 3 that Seattle is known for. But I can't imagine Ballard bringing in a ballhawk safety in Hooker and rangy defensive backs in Wilson, Desir and Hairston to run a strict Tampa 2 base. Hooker is a centerfielder. Geathers is a down in the box safety like Kam Chancellor is... 

 

 

Agreed, I want to see if our corners do press/bump and run or jam and drop into zone more consistently.  I can see them running either depending upon the situation...

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Yes. Please allow me to make the connections here.  Ballard was at the Bears from 2001-2011 as a Scout, and 2012 as Dir. of Pro Player Personnel. Who was head coach in that time? Lovie Smith, who learned his D craft under Tony Dungy.  Riverboat Ron was DC, until he left, then the Babich fail, that's when Rod Marinelli was brought in; who also worked with Lovie Smith under Tony Dungy in Tampa!  Eberflus learned under Rod Marinelli!  Ballard scouted for players for this HC / DC's in this base scheme.  Ballard is not only familiar with the scheme, but the type players necessary to make it work.  He knows Eberflus was the product of Marinelli, a branch (like Lovie Smith) off the Dungy coaching tree.

 

Reich played for the Bills under Levy and Polian.  When Polian started with the Colts in 1998, he called Reich to join them. Reich refused and left football for 8 years, then called Polian mid 2000's... he wanted in.  He was intern, QC coach then became Manning's QB coach, and the Dungy Tampa 2 was the defense during that time. Reich knows Dungy, and the Tampa 2 as well. It all fits. 

 

So Dodds, Hogan, Eberflus, and all of the scouts report to Ballard.  But who designs and runs the D show every Sunday? Who can make Ballard look good... or... not so good in the W or L column?  Who designs D schemes?  Who is responsible for coaching them?  Yes, I think Eberflus has solid input.  And all of this is stuff Jim Irsay is also very familiar with.  And I'll wager he had some say as well.

 

 

Hmmm....

 

“I got to know Matt Eberflus a few years ago and was blown away by Matt,” Ballard said. “Matt was a coveted coach. He’s a very talented defensive coordinator. I feel very lucky to have Matt Eberflus in the building running a scheme that I think fits our team that we can scout for.”

 

 

 

 

Agreed, I want to see if our corners do press/bump and run or jam and drop into zone more consistently.  I can see them running either depending upon the situation...

Running a scheme that I think fits our team that we can scout for...

 

You and I might have a different interpretation of that, but that quote doesn't give me indication that this is Eberflus defense. This is Ballard's vision of a defense that he knows he, Dodds and company can best scout for and build up from scratch... and Eberflus bought in on. Obviously Eberflus is going to have influence on the defense as he is the one that is going to be coaching it up and gameplanning every week. But that doesn't mean Ballard didn't lay out his vision of a Seattle-like defense, knowing he and Dodds could scout the players needed for it, and Eberflus thought it sounded like the stepping stone to head coaching job in the next 4 or 5 years.