Should the Colts trade for Bobby Wagner?

[Steamboat_Shaun]

6 hours ago, compuls1v3 said:

Didn't we do that for Trent Richardson? Now THAT didn't work out....

 

That’s not a great comparison.

[Kyle]

 

19 hours ago, UKColt13 said:

No. 

 

We need more draft picks, not less.

So you would rather have a 3rd round pick than Bobby Wagner?  lol

 

12 hours ago, compuls1v3 said:

Didn't we do that for Trent Richardson? Now THAT didn't work out....

The Colts drafted: TJ Green 2nd, D'Joun Smith 3rd, Werner 1st, Hugh Thornton 3rd, Dwayne Allen 3rd, Fleener 2nd, Ben Ijalana 2nd, Drake Nevis 3rd, Kevin Thomas 3rd, Jerry Hughes 1st, Fili Moala 2nd, Donald Brown 1st, Tony Ugoh 2nd, Daymeion Hughes 3rd, Quinn Pitcock 3rd, Vincent Burns 3rd.......  Now THOSE didn't work out.

 

If every player on that list was 23 years old, I would still trade the entire group for Bobby Wagner.

 

I think it would probably take much more than a 3rd to get Wagner, but those saying we need draft picks and would turn down a trade offer of Wagner for our 3rd round pick are absolutely insane

[UKColt13]

10 minutes ago, Kyle said:

 

So you would rather have a 3rd round pick than Bobby Wagner?  lol

 

 

I have a very hard time seeing them trade him for just a 3rd

[Kyle]

7 minutes ago, UKColt13 said:

 

I have a very hard time seeing them trade him for just a 3rd

I 100% agree BUT the article reads:

I think it would definitely interest the Seahawks if the Colts were to float an offer to send their 3^rd and 4^th round picks in exchange for Wagner and the Seahawks 4^th rounder. Losing their 3^rd round pick is not ideal, but finding an All-Pro talent there is likely a shot in the dark, and moving back from pick 100 to 116 in the 4^th round would not sting too badly in a draft that is said to be deep in the middle.

 

If this trade was an option, we would be dumb not to do it.

[lollygagger8]

Redundancy dept: 

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2018/1/18/16905312/why-the-colts-should-trade-for-bobby-wagner 

 

This guy has the best comment: 

 

So

if we trade down from our #3 pick and add a 2nd rounder, we could then part with that 2nd rounder and a 3rd for Wagner and their 4th. I think that price is more likely.

Potential trades:
Trade #3 pick to NYJ for #6 pick, #49 pick, and 2019 3rd Rd pick.
Trade #49 pick and IND 3rd Rd pick to Sea for Wagner and SEA 4th Rd pick.

Posted by EnterUsernameHere on Jan 18, 2018 | 7:55 AM reply unrec (7)

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 1/19/2018 at 12:09 AM, compuls1v3 said:

Didn't we do that for Trent Richardson? Now THAT didn't work out....

trent was not a proven talent, he was just one of clevelands high picks who didnt develop, he did not have several years of big numbers behind him. big difference between a 1 or 2 year player and  a talent who has several years of big numbers, those are what i call proven talent. trent was a draft bust not a proven talent

[Coltfreak]

On 1/18/2018 at 7:49 PM, COLTS449 said:

I wouldn't want to give up a 2nd for him. But for a 3rd ? Heck yes. I'd offer up a 3rd and 4th this year, and another 4th in 2019. He's a top 2-3 ILB and he's in his prime. However. I seriously doubt Seattle would do this. But man. If we switch to a 43 Imagine Wagner and Williamson to go with a mid RD pick or Morrison/Jackson/Walker. Wow. Draft Chubb RD1 and a RB RD2. After acquiring Wagner. Sign Norwell, Josh Kline, Allen Robinson, Malcolm Butler, and Avery Williamson. Plus 2-3-4 quality depth signings. We'd be set !!!! So for the right price bring Wagner to Nap Town. My favorite ILB in the NFL.

Ok let's go through this using your thinking.  

 

You say  is a top 2-3 inside LB in the league.  Fair enough

 

So with that thinking.  Is there another player in the top 36 picks (when we draft in the second) that is better than him?  How about the top 3 picks?  Anyone.  Especially  a LB. any LB?

 

If not then why would you say you wouldn't give up a second for him?

 

With our picks.  Ballard is going to take BPA.   I know most of you can't wrap your head around that and think he should draft for need which is dumb. There are only 3 positions on the roster that really don't need an upgrade right now.  QB of Luck is healthy.  Kelly at OC and Hankins on D line.   Every other position could be upgraded 

 

If in any round Wagner is available.   Wouldnt he be the BPA on the board?

 

I don't necessarily want to give up a first round pick for him.  But to think he's not worth our second round pick is silly

[USAFHoosier]

On 1/19/2018 at 12:09 AM, compuls1v3 said:

Didn't we do that for Trent Richardson? Now THAT didn't work out....

Trent Richardson and Bobby Wagner are night and day different players.  That is apples and oranges

[NewColtsFan]

On 1/19/2018 at 10:34 AM, lollygagger8 said:

Redundancy dept: 

 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2018/1/18/16905312/why-the-colts-should-trade-for-bobby-wagner 

 

This guy has the best comment: 

 

So

if we trade down from our #3 pick and add a 2nd rounder, we could then part with that 2nd rounder and a 3rd for Wagner and their 4th. I think that price is more likely.

Potential trades:
Trade #3 pick to NYJ for #6 pick, #49 pick, and 2019 3rd Rd pick.
Trade #49 pick and IND 3rd Rd pick to Sea for Wagner and SEA 4th Rd pick.

Posted by EnterUsernameHere on Jan 18, 2018 | 7:55 AM reply unrec (7)

 

We're not trading a 2 and a 3 for Wagner and a 4.     The price is way, way too high.

 

Wagner is a very good player, but I'd only trade for him if the price were more modest which it likely won't be.   He's played his best football but us linely on the backside of his career where he will get hurt more often.    He's also very expensive.

 

So Wagner for maybe a 4..   but that's about it for me.

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 1/19/2018 at 10:03 AM, Kyle said:

 

So you would rather have a 3rd round pick than Bobby Wagner?  lol

 

The Colts drafted: TJ Green 2nd, D'Joun Smith 3rd, Werner 1st, Hugh Thornton 3rd, Dwayne Allen 3rd, Fleener 2nd, Ben Ijalana 2nd, Drake Nevis 3rd, Kevin Thomas 3rd, Jerry Hughes 1st, Fili Moala 2nd, Donald Brown 1st, Tony Ugoh 2nd, Daymeion Hughes 3rd, Quinn Pitcock 3rd, Vincent Burns 3rd.......  Now THOSE didn't work out.

 

If every player on that list was 23 years old, I would still trade the entire group for Bobby Wagner.

 

I think it would probably take much more than a 3rd to get Wagner, but those saying we need draft picks and would turn down a trade offer of Wagner for our 3rd round pick are absolutely insane

 

Hello!   I'm insane!   Nice to meet you!   

 

Wagner is a very good player.   He's also a 10 million dollar a year player and he's getting to the back end of his career where he will age quickly and get hurt more often.   I would absolutely NOT trade a 3 for Wagner and I'd sleep well at night.

 

I also think Seattle would trade him for a 3 if they could get it.    I wouldn't give more than a 4, and I don't think Seattle would take it.

 

You and I see this differently.  

[NewColtsFan]

On 1/18/2018 at 4:30 PM, Smonroe said:

 

Yep. Seattle may do it for our 2.  So the question is - are we sure we’d get a player of his quality at 2.  Obviously not, you can’t be sure any draft pick is going to work out.  

 

This is akin to trading our 2 for Vontae, but it’s a higher 2 for a better player, in a position of real need.  

 

This is not a good cmparison.

 

Vonte was young when we got him....    like 23 or 24.     And he was CHEAP!   Still on a rookie contract.

 

Wagner will be 28 next year.     And he's due more than $10 Million.

 

I wouldn't get near him unless (A) he re-works the deal,  and (B) the pick is no more than a 4.    Tops.

 

[richard pallo]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We're not trading a 2 and a 3 for Wagner and a 4.     The price is way, wat  too high.

 

Wagner is a very good player, but I'd only trade for him if the price were more modest which it likely won't be.   He's played his best football but us linely on the backside of his career where he will get hurt more often.    He's also very expensive.

 

So Wagner for maybe a 4..   but that's about it for me.

 

Wagner is only 27.  A pro bowler in his prime and right in Ballards wheelhouse age wise.  I would rather have Bobby Wagner than our second rd. pick.  Our last couple of 2nds and 3ds. haven't set the league on fire TBH. 

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, richard pallo said:

Wagner is only 27.  A pro bowler in his prime and right in Ballards wheelhouse age wise.  I would rather have Bobby Wagner than our second rd. pick.  Our last couple of 2nds and 3ds. haven't set the league on fire TBH. 

 

He's 27 today.

 

He'll be 28 next season when he's playing.   His birthday is in July.

 

And he's expensive.   His contract calls for more than 10 million per.      I'm not giving up a 2 or a 3 in a draft where I'm picking at the top of the round and not the bottom.

 

No chance.      I think Seattle would pop champagne bottles to get a pick like that.     Not from me.

 

[NewColtsFan]

On 1/18/2018 at 9:09 PM, compuls1v3 said:

Didn't we do that for Trent Richardson? Now THAT didn't work out....

 

 

Now why would you do that?   

 

Compare Bobby Wagner, who has had SIX good to very good and even some great years with Trent Richardson, who had only one average year,   his rookie season, and nothing else.

 

Why would you do that?

 

Come on now.....       that's a terrible comparison.

 

We made a good trade for Vonte,  but you didn't make that comparison,  did you?

 

Let's at least be reasonable and try to make an apples to apples comparison.

 

 

 

[Smonroe]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

This is not a good cmparison.

 

Vonte was young when we got him....    like 23 or 24.     And he was CHEAP!   Still on a rookie contract.

 

Wagner will be 28 next year.     And he's due more than $10 Million.

 

I wouldn't get near him unless (A) he re-works the deal,  and (B) the pick is no more than a 4.    Tops.

 

 

We need players, he’s one of the best at a position of need.  Don’t get wrapped up in money concerns.  You know as well as anyone that contracts can be manipulated.

 

There’s no way they’d let him go for a 4, probably not even for a three.  They best we might do is swapping 2s and a later rounder.  

 

Let me ask you, can you guarantee we’ll get a player as good as him with our 2nd?  

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

He's 27 today.

 

He'll be 28 next season when he's playing.   His birthday is in July.

 

And he's expensive.   His contract calls for more than 10 million per.      I'm not giving up a 2 or a 3 in a draft where I'm picking at the top of the round and not the bottom.

 

No chance.      I think Seattle would pop champagne bottles to get a pick like that.     Not from me.

 

The money doesn't bother me.  He's under contract for two more years.  We can afford it and you can always rework the contract.  The guy is a stud and a difference maker.  He would change the face of our defense.  I would do it.  No problem. 

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

We need players, he’s one of the best at a position of need.  Don’t get wrapped up in money concerns.  You know as well as anyone that contracts can be manipulated.

 

There’s no way they’d let him go for a 4, probably not even for a three.  They best we might do is swapping 2s and a later rounder.  

 

Let me ask you, can you guarantee we’ll get a player as good as him with our 2nd?  

 

I'll ask you a similar question....     can you guarantee me that we'll get the Wagner from his first six years and not an aging Wager of his 28, 29 and 30 age years?   

 

If we trade a 2,  we're basically giving Seattle a first round pick.   Because we have pick 36,  and at that point,  we'd find someone in the top-32 of the Colts draft board.       I'm not giving up the 36th pick for Bobby Wagner.    And I love the guy.      But no chance.     This is an easy decision for me.

 

Seattle is in the tough spot.    I'm not interested in giving them the easy way out and make things tougher on us with a high pick and a high salary.      No chance.

 

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

The money doesn't bother me.  He's under contract for two more years.  We can afford it and you can always rework the contract.  The guy is a stud and a difference maker.  He would change the face of our defense.  I would do it.  No problem. 

 

If he's all that you think he is,  why do you think Seattle would move him?     Because they know his best years are behid him.      He plays a position where you age fast.     He might be very good his first year with the Colts.   Then he might be good.    And then he might be average.     The trend line would go downhill fast. 

 

Wagner for a high pick and a high salary?       Not for me.     And I love the guy.

 

Way, way too expensive.

 

[Smonroe]

16 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'll ask you a similar question....     can you guarantee me that we'll get the Wagner from his first six years and not an aging Wager of his 28, 29 and 30 age years?   

 

If we trade a 2,  we're basically giving Seattle a first round pick.   Because we have pick 36,  and at that point,  we'd find someone in the top-32 of the Colts draft board.       I'm not giving up the 36th pick for Bobby Wagner.    And I love the guy.      But no chance.     This is an easy decision for me.

 

Seattle is in the tough spot.    I'm not interested in giving them the easy way out and make things tougher on us with a high pick and a high salary.      No chance.

 

 

I respect your opinion and all I can say is that I want a proven star who can immediately help my team.  No player is guaranteed to be as good every year.  The average span of an NFL career is about 3 Years.  

 

I guess I look at it as - can we get an all pro LB with our 2nd pick?  

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I respect your opinion and all I can say is that I want a proven star who can immediately help my team.  No player is guaranteed to be as good every year.  The average span of an NFL career is about 3 Years.  

 

I guess I look at it as - can we get an all pro LB with our 2nd pick?  

 

For how many years?

 

To me,  it's like buying a stock at its highest point.     It's great,  until it starts to drop in price.    And once it starts to drop,  it rarely comes back up.

 

Buying a middle linebacker with 6 high volume seasons, and paying full price,  is Fools Gold to me.

 

You've paid a steep price and you won't get many quality seasons out of him.     That's my fear.

 

Now, if Seattle wants to move him for a more reasonable price and Wagner is willing to renegotiate his contract,  then great!      At that point, I'm willing to do a deal with him.      But otherwise.........

 

[bWild]

Oh please. This isn’t Madden. Wagner isn’t going anywhere. 

[Smonroe]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

For how many years?

 

To me,  it's like buying a stock at its highest point.     It's great,  until it starts to drop in price.    And once it starts to drop,  it rarely comes back up.

 

Buying a middle linebacker with 6 high volume seasons, and paying full price,  is Fools Gold to me.

 

You've paid a steep price and you won't get many quality seasons out of him.     That's my fear.

 

Now, if Seattle wants to move him for a more reasonable price and Wagner is willing to renegotiate his contract,  then great!      At that point, I'm willing to do a deal with him.      But otherwise.........

 

 

Again, there’s never a guarantee on the number of years anyone will play.  Our entire 13 draft is gone.  Our 2nd pick from 14 may be done.  None of of can say if Wagner or our 2nd pick will be here in three years.  

 

We we have a difference of opinion, let’s leave it at that.  

[compuls1v3]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

Now why would you do that?   

 

Compare Bobby Wagner, who has had SIX good to very good and even some great years with Trent Richardson, who had only one average year,   his rookie season, and nothing else.

 

Why would you do that?

 

Come on now.....       that's a terrible comparison.

 

We made a good trade for Vonte,  but you didn't make that comparison,  did you?

 

Let's at least be reasonable and try to make an apples to apples comparison.

 

 

 

Ok, well thinking on it now, you are right, that was only one comparison, and a bad one to boot. I also agree Vontae was a good trade.

[COLTS449]

On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 12:03 PM, Coltfreak said:

Ok let's go through this using your thinking.  

 

You say  is a top 2-3 inside LB in the league.  Fair enough

 

So with that thinking.  Is there another player in the top 36 picks (when we draft in the second) that is better than him?  How about the top 3 picks?  Anyone.  Especially  a LB. any LB?

 

If not then why would you say you wouldn't give up a second for him?

 

With our picks.  Ballard is going to take BPA.   I know most of you can't wrap your head around that and think he should draft for need which is dumb. There are only 3 positions on the roster that really don't need an upgrade right now.  QB of Luck is healthy.  Kelly at OC and Hankins on D line.   Every other position could be upgraded 

 

If in any round Wagner is available.   Wouldnt he be the BPA on the board?

 

I don't necessarily want to give up a first round pick for him.  But to think he's not worth our second round pick is silly

 

That's a good point. But my way of looking at it is with us having such a high 2nd RD pick its basically like a late first, meaning we can get a 1st RD talent at 36. Wagner is mos def a top 2-3 ILB in the NFL. I'd say maybe even the best. I actually cant argue with your logic. He's in his prime at ONLY 27 years old, and he's signed to a very reasonable contract considering what he'd be getting if he were a FA this offseason. He's on what ? Like a 4 year, 40 million dollar deal ? That's a straight steal. You've kinda made me change my mind about the 2nd.

 

As for the BPA. Yes. But at a position of need. We don't need a Safety. We have 3 really good young, up and coming players there. Everywhere else on D. Yeah. But BPA based on position of need is my view.

[Luck 4 president]

I would 100% trade our 2nd for him. If we trade back with the Browns, Jets, or Broncos we could use the 2nd we get from that trade to trade for Wagner. 

[Smonroe]

10 minutes ago, Luck 4 president said:

I would 100% trade our 2nd for him. If we trade back with the Browns, Jets, or Broncos we could use the 2nd we get from that trade to trade for Wagner. 

 

I think it’s a no brainer.  But I think if Seattle needs to cut cap they’ll try to move Sherman and do everything they can to keep Wagner.  

[Coltfreak]

55 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

I think it’s a no brainer.  But I think if Seattle needs to cut cap they’ll try to move Sherman and do everything they can to keep Wagner.  

Sherman's injury is pretty significant especially for a CB.    He may not have much value. 

[lollygagger8]

On 1/20/2018 at 7:36 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

We're not trading a 2 and a 3 for Wagner and a 4.     The price is way, way too high.

 

Wagner is a very good player, but I'd only trade for him if the price were more modest which it likely won't be.   He's played his best football but us linely on the backside of his career where he will get hurt more often.    He's also very expensive.

 

So Wagner for maybe a 4..   but that's about it for me.

 

 

Teams overpay for good players. Happens all the time in FA as well. 

 

You never know, crazier things have happened.

[jameszeigler834]

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 4:50 PM, KING. said:

Bobby Wagner.

 

He has ties with Ed Dodds, and Seattle only has a little over $13 million in cap space and four draft picks in 2018. Bobby Wagner is one of the best inside linebackers in the game today and we can afford him. He still has two years left on his deal with Seattle, but with not much cap space to resign their own free agents or be active in free agency, maybe Ballard can work his magic and propose a trade to Seattle in order to bring Wagner to the Colts.

 

The only reason I brought this up is that someone posted an article about it earlier today and it had me thinking. I would personally love this, as our defense could use a force in the middle of our defense.

 

 

Might have to give up too much for him.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Might have to give up too much for him.

If we do trade for him the price would be right in Ballard's mind.  

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

Teams overpay for good players. Happens all the time in FA as well. 

 

You never know, crazier things have happened.

 

I'm willing to overpay...   I just don't want to in two ways....     I don't want to overpay in both draft picks AND salary. 

 

I think that that would be a bad investment.

 

[dgambill]

I have a lot more faith in Ballard then Grigson. I do not move that 2nd rd pick. If its 3rd or a pick we get from a trade then we can talk. Wagner is a very good ILB...I don't see him being available. There are some guys on that DL and more specifically R. Sherman that I think would be made available well before Wagner. Giving up that very early second to me is a sign of a GM that doesn't trust his scouting team or lacks confidence in building this team....and that would signal a red flag to me.

 

Just look at what NO did in one offseason through the draft....I mean they transformed that team...and long term too. I have faith Ballard can do that with this draft too.

[Malakai432]

Dare I say Wagner and a trade back drafting Roquan Smith?  I couldn't imagine Roquan and Wagner roaming around pestering offenses.  Gotta have pass rush though I know. Just a goofy thought.