I believe JB will start this Sunday

[AustexColt]

I think that JB is the ultimate backup QB to Luck. Having said that, it is logical that JB should start this Sunday and get in game shape ASAP. If he gets 5 plays down that means there are 5 plays that the offense can run versus 100 that they can't with Tolzien. JB has size, arm strength and mobility that Tolzien lacks. There is no tapes on JB with a Colts uniform and that is another factor which will keep the Cardinals guessing what to expect. If we are lucky and he produces a win, that will generate tremendous confidence throughout the entire team and organization.That is how I see it. Now let us wait and see what Pagano decides who starts.

[tikyle]

Dude literally doesn't know the plays.  He's been there for a little over 10 days.  He may start, but to expect anything out of him would be totally unfair.  The only thing I would expect him to do is not throw 2 pick 6's next week.  Outside of that I have nothing for you.

[Smoke317]

If Pagano starts Tolzien & we look terrible again, that will be his last game as Colts HC...  

 

So, he'll definitely be starting Brissett. 

[Roger]

25 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

If Pagano starts Tolzien & we look terrible again, that will be his last game as Colts HC...  

 

So, he'll definitely be starting Brissett. 

I hope Pagano is smart enough to start Brissett.  I do, I do.

[#25HallOfFamer]

30 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

If Pagano starts Tolzien & we look terrible again, that will be his last game as Colts HC...  

 

So, he'll definitely be starting Brissett. 

 

i concour, i don't think that Chuck gonna put his on the line (most than it is) to start with Tolzien knowing that he can be a disaster again

[jvan1973]

33 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

If Pagano starts Tolzien & we look terrible again, that will be his last game as Colts HC...  

 

So, he'll definitely be starting Brissett. 

If brissett doesn't start,   more than just pagano made the call.   I'm sure there have been multiple meetings since Sunday on the very subject 

[GoDeep]

If Pagano starts Tolzien he should be escorted from the building immediately.

[southwest1]

JB definitely should start over Tolzien. He has a better pocket presence, better arm, better legs, & he is mentally tougher than Scott just by jumping on the ball for a safety in the end zone vs say a touchdown. 

 

JB really looked sharp in that last preseason game vs the Giants. I just have more confidence in JB as opposed to ST. 

 

When Tolkien's contract has expired, let the man go. Do not re-sign him. Scott doesn't methodically move the ball down field with authority at all. 

 

Part of the reason I was depressed by our Rams loss is that even Automatic Adam missed 1 PAT & 1 FG. I don't blame Adam. I was just like darn. We can't do anything right today at all. Ouch. Momma said there would days like this. Only 1 way to go but up now. 

[Pelt]

2 hours ago, tikyle said:

Dude literally doesn't know the plays.  He's been there for a little over 10 days.  He may start, but to expect anything out of him would be totally unfair.  The only thing I would expect him to do is not throw 2 pick 6's next week.  Outside of that I have nothing for you.

Tolzien literally knows the plays. He's been here way beyond 10 days. He may start, but to expect anything out of him would be totally unrealistic. The only thing I would expect him to do IS throw 2 pick 6's this week. Outside of that... just kidding. Couldn't resist, man! 

[southwest1]

2 hours ago, tikyle said:

Dude literally doesn't know the plays.  He's been there for a little over 10 days.  He may start, but to expect anything out of him would be totally unfair.  The only thing I would expect him to do is not throw 2 pick 6's next week.  Outside of that I have nothing for you.

Have you seen Tolzien TKYL? I don't care if JB was only INDY for barely a week. Brissett gets the green light man. 

 

I know Tolzien well from his college days. The kid doesn't have it. I have zero confidence in Tolzien. I'll take Brissett's limited knowledge of the Colts playbook over Scott any day of the week. JB gives me hope in the huddle. 

 

JB was releasing the ball fast & putting it in a good spot for WRs & TEs not pitching floaters/easy pickens out there for our adversaries. 

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, GoDeep said:

If Pagano starts Tolzien he should be escorted from the building immediately.

I'm sure the starter will be known by the entire front office prior to the game.   If Tolzien starts,   it will have been approved by chucks superiors

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Have you seen Tolzien TKYL? I don't care if JB was only INDY for barely a week. Brissett gets the green light man. 

 

I know Tolzien well from his college days. The kid doesn't have it. I have zero confidence in Tolzien. I'll take the limited knowledge of the Colts playbook over Scott any day of the week. JB gives me hope in the huddle. 

An under thrown ball to moncrief gives you confidence that he knows the playbook?

[southwest1]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

An under thrown ball to moncrief gives you confidence that he knows the playbook?

Yes, because Tolzien sucked in college & if you suck in college you will suck in the NFL. 

 

JB threw an early pick vs Big Blue in the Preseason & it didn't phase him. Tolzien can't rebound when things go bad from jump street. 

 

Jvan, the point is the ball moves downfield with momentum under JB & do you really think Scott would have had the presence of mind to jump on that ball for a safety that quick because I don't. 

 

The only reason Jimmy signed Scott was he was a cheap backup who understudied via Aaron Rogers. 

[Stephen]

22 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

An under thrown ball to moncrief gives you confidence that he knows the playbook?

Lets talk about tolziens under throws that travel nowhere near as far as that pass.

[jameszeigler834]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

If brissett doesn't start,   more than just pagano made the call.   I'm sure there have been multiple meetings since Sunday on the very subject 

If Brissett don't start they are fools just sayin.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, jameszeigler834 said:

If Brissett don't start they are fools just sayin.

Maybe,   but Ballard will have given his approval

[jvan1973]

17 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Yes, because Tolzien sucked in college & if you suck in college you will suck in the NFL. 

 

JB threw an early pick vs Big Blue in the Preseason & it didn't phase him. Tolzien can't rebound when things go bad from jump street. 

 

Jvan, the point is the ball moves downfield with momentum under JB & do you really think Scott would have had the presence of mind to jump on that ball for a safety that quick because I don't. 

 

The only reason Jimmy signed Scott was he was a cheap backup who understudied via Aaron Rogers. 

Jimmy didn't sign anyone,   grigson did.   Ballard kept him,   and Chuck started him.   Plenty of blame to go around

[coltsfeva]

2 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

If brissett doesn't start,   more than just pagano made the call.   I'm sure there have been multiple meetings since Sunday on the very subject 

While I agree they need to get Brissett in ASAP, it does limit the offense. Plays intended to look like previous plays run, knowing where all your options are on a particular play, takes time.

  That being said, Brissett looks more confident in the pocket. It's going to take a strong run game, receivers getting open and time to throw. I hope they make a change and the whole team plays better.

[VaAllDay757]

Run the ball heavy and use the option with brissett it's simple and effective since he doesn't know much of the playbook

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Run the ball heavy and use the option with brissett it's simple and effective since he doesn't know much of the playbook

 

So now, instead of one person learning the offense that's been installed for the last 4 months, you want the rest of the team to learn an option offense. That includes the OL that can't run a screen play or pick up a stunt...

 

Let's acknowledge how difficult it really is to throw a brand new QB into the mix two weeks before a game, and expect an acceptable performance. This would be a monumental task for even the best coaching staff. This staff did something similar in the past, but they had literally no other choice. 

 

I'd rather see Brissett than Tolzien, just like practically everyone else, but if it doesn't happen in Week 2, it's entirely understandable. 

[VaAllDay757]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

So now, instead of one person learning the offense that's been installed for the last 4 months, you want the rest of the team to learn an option offense. That includes the OL that can't run a screen play or pick up a stunt...

 

Let's acknowledge how difficult it really is to throw a brand new QB into the mix two weeks before a game, and expect an acceptable performance. This would be a monumental task for even the best coaching staff. This staff did something similar in the past, but they had literally no other choice. 

 

I'd rather see Brissett than Tolzien, just like practically everyone else, but if it doesn't happen in Week 2, it's entirely understandable. 

It's one play and it's simple to run I'm pretty sure it's in the playbook because they used it before with luck they just don't use it for some strange reason. Don't think it's that difficult for the linemen to just block for the run that's there job anyway and the cardinals wouldn't expect it

[Stephen]

4 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

It's one play and it's simple to run I'm pretty sure it's in the playbook because they used it before with luck they just don't use it for some strange reason. Don't think it's that difficult for the linemen to just block for the run that's there job anyway and the cardinals wouldn't expect it

If tolzien starts it will be over in the first quarter. He doesn't know how to get in the endzone

[Coltgoat]

They got Freeman and Lindley (sp?) ready in 6 days or so.

Go JB even if he knows a handful of plays. All our running plays look the same and are telegraphed ahead of time just to make sure our opponents know what the Colts are doing.

I believe Chuck thinks it is an unfair advantage to use creativity in any way except when trying to run the hurry up after we actually scored a touchdown. Dumba$$

[southwest1]

12 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Jimmy didn't sign anyone,   grigson did.   Ballard kept him,   and Chuck started him.   Plenty of blame to go around

Okay fine. Jimmy still had to approve the Tolzien acquisition though. 

 

Because I respect you as a regular on here; I will openly admit that JB playing well in the Preseason vs the Giants means very little in regular season action. I know that. I was just really impressed how JB played well despite facing early adversity in the 1st half. I just figured that Chud could sit down with Brissett, condense the playbook, & construct a hybrid NE/INDY game plan with plays he's comfortable with. 

 

I know what we have in Tolzien & we picked up JB because Scott wasn't instilling much confidence in the huddle after 2 picks. Look, I don't hate Tolzien. I know he threw the ball behind TY & yes, that can happen to any QB on opening day. I get it. I just like field generals who can shake off turnovers with selective amnesia. ST hasn't shown me he can do that & JB has. It's as simple as that. When the wheels fall off, how do you respond? That's huge to me in terms of a benchmark. 

 

I can stomach losing better if we go down swinging meaning trying like hades to put points on the board by any means necessary. 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

It's one play and it's simple to run I'm pretty sure it's in the playbook because they used it before with luck they just don't use it for some strange reason. Don't think it's that difficult for the linemen to just block for the run that's there job anyway and the cardinals wouldn't expect it

 

Do you mean specifically read option? And are you saying you want the Colts to run one option play all game long because "the Cardinals wouldn't expect it"?

 

It's actually not a simple play to block for. It requires identifying a rusher that will be unblocked, along with a backside pull. I like read option, think we should use more of it, but it can't be a foundational play of an NFL offense. 

[Fisticuffs111]

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Do you mean specifically read option? And are you saying you want the Colts to run one option play all game long because "the Cardinals wouldn't expect it"?

 

It's actually not a simple play to block for. It requires identifying a rusher that will be unblocked, along with a backside pull. I like read option, think we should use more of it, but it can't be a foundational play of an NFL offense. 

To add on, it'd be especially hard to implement with our unhealthy line.

If we had all of our guys healthy, and had Brissett throughout preseason and had been practicing, it'd be a nice play to use while Luck is out. But yeah, it's just not realistic to use at this point. Not that Luck couldn't do it with practice either, I'd just be terrified of him running an option.

[jvan1973]

35 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Okay fine. Jimmy still had to approve the Tolzien acquisition though. 

 

Because I respect you as a regular on here; I will openly admit that JB playing well in the Preseason vs the Giants means very little in regular season action. I know that. I was just really impressed how JB played well despite facing early adversity in the 1st half. I just figured that Chud could sit down with Brissett, condense the playbook, & construct a hybrid NE/INDY game plan with plays he's comfortable with. 

 

I know what we have in Tolzien & we picked up JB because Scott wasn't instilling much confidence in the huddle after 2 picks. Look, I don't hate Tolzien. I know he threw the ball behind TY & yes, that can happen to any QB on opening day. I get it. I just like field generals who can shake off turnovers with selective amnesia. ST hasn't shown me he can do that & JB has. It's as simple as that. When the wheels fall off, how do you respond? That's huge to me in terms of a benchmark. 

 

I can stomach losing better if we go down swinging meaning trying like hades to put points on the board by any means necessary. 

Make no mistake,   I think tolzien is terrible.    I was upset they let Josh Freeman  go and signed him.   I have no doubt that eventually JB will be the FAR better option.   But I'm skeptical this week will ne considering he has been here such a short time

[southwest1]

24 minutes ago, Stephen said:

If tolzien starts it will be over in the first quarter. He doesn't know how to get in the endzone

While I totally understand your frustration here Stephen, I can't really condemn Tolzien's lack of TDs going up against Ogletree, Barwin, & Safety Lamarcus Joyner was making our QB very uncomfortable. 

 

I feel your frustration man. I truly do. You're not wrong. I just think any QB would have taken a beating against that defense. I just think Brissett can make smarter decisions under duress than Scott that's all. 

 

We're on the same page moving forward though. I will agree 100% on that. 

[Superman]

16 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

To add on, it'd be especially hard to implement with our unhealthy line.

If we had all of our guys healthy, and had Brissett throughout preseason and had been practicing, it'd be a nice play to use while Luck is out. But yeah, it's just not realistic to use at this point. Not that Luck couldn't do it with practice either, I'd just be terrified of him running an option.

 

I don't think it's dangerous if the QB is responsible. Get down, don't take unnecessary contact, etc. Use it sparingly and it just stresses the defense in another way. They should use him on bootlegs and rollouts more, also. And these are all things Brissett can do as well.

[southwest1]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Make no mistake,   I think tolzien is terrible.    I was upset they let Josh Freeman  go and signed him.   I have no doubt that eventually JB will be the FAR better option.   But I'm skeptical this will considering he has been here such a short time

Good point. Yeah, JB is still getting acclimated to our system, our scheme, & literally getting his bearings in a new locker room. I suppose it is only reasonable to give JB a few weeks in practice to hone routes with Doyle, Hilton, & Moncrief. 

 

Perhaps, we were expecting  a stellar performance too quickly from Scott & even Dan Fouts said on the air that Tolzien has barely any starts on his resume all true. 

 

We're cool Jvan. I just know that this forum will get quite heated if INDY continues to get massacred on the field in subsequent weeks. 

 

Good post. I agree with everything you said. 

[Freenyfan102]

Tolzien will start next week because Pagano an *

[NewColtsFan]

 

To echo what other smart posters here have said....

 

One,  the decision to start Tolzein again ISN'T because Pagano or Chud love the guy.    It'll be because they think Brissett isn't ready.     And Ballard will sign-off on it.    These decisions aren't made in a vacuum.

 

If Tolzen starts and we lose again,  this will likely NOT be Pagano's last game.  We've started 0-2 before and gone on to reach the playoffs.    I believe we've done that mutlple times.

 

If Brissett isn't ready by Game 2,  then he'll likely be ready by Game 3.    But that's more hunch than anything else.

 

 

[Reboot]

How far into the fog are we that we seem to collectively, or the majority at least, think a player with 3 games in the Patriots system which is 13-5 in the Brady era without Brady is magically going to stabilize the Colts until Luck returns?   We've reached a really bizarre place. The Colts are about as far away from what the Patriots are as there can be in the NFL.  And that's what we're basing this optimism on as far as I can tell.  Oh, and so there is no mistake, I hope Brissett starts until Luck returns too.  I don't ever want to see Tolzien play for the Colts again.  

[jvan1973]

7 minutes ago, Freenyfan102 said:

Tolzien will start next week because Pagano an *

Well thought out post,   as  usual.   Congrats 

[Restored]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

So now, instead of one person learning the offense that's been installed for the last 4 months, you want the rest of the team to learn an option offense. That includes the OL that can't run a screen play or pick up a stunt...

 

Let's acknowledge how difficult it really is to throw a brand new QB into the mix two weeks before a game, and expect an acceptable performance. This would be a monumental task for even the best coaching staff. This staff did something similar in the past, but they had literally no other choice. 

 

I'd rather see Brissett than Tolzien, just like practically everyone else, but if it doesn't happen in Week 2, it's entirely understandable. 

 

It's really not understandable though. Tolzien was NEVER the reasonable option to begin with, dating back to preseason when him and Morris were "competing" for the backup role. He doesn't have the arm strength this offense requires among his many other issues. Now, the team has prepared and put out a starter on much less notice beforehand. While the team didn't have a choice at that time, they really don't have one here either. If the team falls to 0-2 (which may still be a distinct possibility with Brissett), the season will be over.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, Restored said:

 

It's really not understandable though. Tolzien was NEVER the reasonable option to begin with, dating back to preseason when him and Morris were "competing" for the backup role. He doesn't have the arm strength this offense requires among his many other issues. Now, the team has prepared and put out a starter on much less notice beforehand. While the team didn't have a choice at that time, they really don't have one here either. If the team falls to 0-2 (which may still be a distinct possibility with Brissett), the season will be over.

The point he was trying to make is,   if tolzien starts,   it means JB  isn't ready.   We all know tolzien sucks,   but throwing JB in before he is ready isn't a good idea

 

[Fisticuffs111]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think it's dangerous if the QB is responsible. Get down, don't take unnecessary contact, etc. Use it sparingly and it just stresses the defense in another way. They should use him on bootlegs and rollouts more, also. And these are all things Brissett can do as well.

Sparingly, possibly. Even then I can see why coaches would be skeptical though. He's prone to taking risks and I think he'd take unnecessary contact sooner than later. And after this shoulder surgery, and all the other injuries, I could see why they'd shy away from that.

Bootlegs and rollouts are one thing, with multiple options to pass too, and I totally agree they should use him more in those situations. If nobody's open and he has the opening and takes it, that's fine.

Brisett though, just watching his replays, I think he knows what it takes to run the option. He uses a pitch fake well and he knows how and when to avoid punishment.

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, southwest1 said:

While I totally understand your frustration here Stephen, I can't really condemn Tolzien's lack of TDs going up against Ogletree, Barwin, & Safety Lamarcus Joyner was making our QB very uncomfortable. 

 

I feel your frustration man. I truly do. You're not wrong. I just think any QB would have taken a beating against that defense. I just think Brissett can make smarter decisions under duress than Scott that's all. 

 

We're on the same page moving forward though. I will agree 100% on that. 

That is his main problem from when he was in greenbay and now here. He likes the five yard passes and doesnt stretch the field enough. When he does he throws floaters that are easy to int. Morris and Brissett both have the ability to make throws under pressure. Have not seen that from Tolzien

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, Stephen said:

That is his main problem from when he was in greenbay and now here. He likes the five yard passes and doesnt stretch the field enough. When he does he throws floaters that are easy to int. Morris and Brissett both have the ability to make throws under pressure. Have not seen that from Tolzien

The bomb to moncrief was a wobbler.  Dontae  made a great adjustment.   

[Restored]

18 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

The point he was trying to make is,   if tolzien starts,   it means JB  isn't ready.   We all know tolzien sucks,   but throwing JB in before he is ready isn't a good idea

 

 

You are lending too much credence to the coaching staff and their ability to make sound personnel decisions when there hasn't been much evidence here lately.