Jeff Fisher

[buccolts]

17 minutes ago, theanarchist said:

I'm not sure what you mean by that? Grigson is the GM. He has complete control over the personnel decisions. He MAY get input from Pagano but Grigson is the guy pulling the strings 99% of the time. I can't see Irsay meddling in personnel matters unless its a rare occasion. Pagano certainly doesn't tell Grigson how to set up his draft board. He may throw in his opinion on some guys and probably on some free agents he may have experience with but Grigson's the guy making the decisions.

 

My thought is that Pagano, and Irsay may have more input into the process than you're describing. I don't think Grigson is ignorant to what either of the others feel. They should all have input on where they're going and how to get there. I even believe the coordinators will have some input, as well. I'd also have to believe that, though Irsay isn't a meddler, Grigson, being a new(ish) GM may have parameters where he'd at least need to run his thoughts by Irsay. 

 

Now, in my mind that's logical. However, I'd have to believe that all teams are set up a bit differently, and none of us have knowledge of exactly how things flow with the Colts right now. Heck, I'd bet that my above scenario wasn't the case when Polian was here.

[DaColts85]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

So many people in here no nothing about Gruden. Just repeating the same tired narrative they heard from someone else. You guys need to stop saying he won a Super Bowl with Dungy's team so lightly. If it was that easy then Dungy would/should have done it, but he didn't.

 

After reviving the Raiders, this guy came in and did exactly what he was asked to do which was win the big one. However before you guys go and hit me with the old "but he ran the Bucs into the ground!!" rhetoric, remember that he walked into a terrible situation. A lot of expiring contracts, overpaid players, and guys at the end of their careers. He also had a GM who he said didn't draft players for his scheme and didn't have a franchise QB. They changed GMs and the Bucs showed marked improvement. Plus it's not like they never made the playoffs again under him. They actually did.

 

But Dungy's team was long gone by then but instead of focusing on letting him rebuild he became the fall guy for a team that was coming apart before he got there. Too many people in love with the Tampa team of old and wanted someone to blame. Plus like Saban, he never got a franchise QB.

Also, no one wants to give him credit for the Raiders he beat in 2002 in the Super Bowl.  If you give Dungy credit you need to then give Gruden credit for building that team as well.  Then give him the credit of beating that team in the Super Bowl.

[OffensivelyPC]

6 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

Got an early Christmas present in the post this morning. A new game called 'Coacheroo'. You put 310 names in a hat, take a random dip, then you have to create a post on the Indianapolis Colts' Forum to discuss if we should have that person as our new coach, even although our incumbent is going nowhere....great fun.

Was gonna say, i already thought we had a coaching change and Irsay plans no change at GM/HC thread, but i couldve seen it elsewhere...

[dudley dawson]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

No.

 

I'd put the chances of Irsay hiring Fisher as the next coach right around ZERO.      Lower if possible.    

 

Gruen just turned down the Rams job.     He's paid NFL head coaching money to do Monday Night Football.    Odds are he's not coming back to football.     At least,  not in the near future.

 

And given that the Colts are the 2nd winningest team in the last 20 years,  your dig on Irsay shows more about you than it does on him.      He's given you a great team for two decades and you have no clue......

 

Let's not act like the past two decades are all him.  He had 2 surefire QBs to work with in that time.  Most owners are not so fortunate (look at what he did prior to Manning).  That being said, I like Jim for the most part but he does make foolish decisions time to time, like extending Pagano/Grigson last offseason.  Everyone and their mother knew that was a huge mistake and look where we are now.

[theanarchist]

2 hours ago, buccolts said:

 

My thought is that Pagano, and Irsay may have more input into the process than you're describing. I don't think Grigson is ignorant to what either of the others feel. They should all have input on where they're going and how to get there. I even believe the coordinators will have some input, as well. I'd also have to believe that, though Irsay isn't a meddler, Grigson, being a new(ish) GM may have parameters where he'd at least need to run his thoughts by Irsay. 

 

Now, in my mind that's logical. However, I'd have to believe that all teams are set up a bit differently, and none of us have knowledge of exactly how things flow with the Colts right now. Heck, I'd bet that my above scenario wasn't the case when Polian was here.

You could be right I guess but I personally don't believe that Irsay gets involved much in the personnel issues. He certainly could from time to time but I don't think he's involving himself in the scouting etc of players. Pagano probably has a little more say than that. JMO

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, dudley dawson said:

Let's not act like the past two decades are all him.  He had 2 surefire QBs to work with in that time.  Most owners are not so fortunate (look at what he did prior to Manning).  That being said, I like Jim for the most part but he does make foolish decisions time to time, like extending Pagano/Grigson last offseason.  Everyone and their mother knew that was a huge mistake and look where we are now.

 

Sorry,   but I strongly disagree.

 

Everyone and their mother did NOT know that was a mistake.       You did.      Others here agreed with you.

 

NFL.com reported that had Pagano been fired last off-season,  he'd have been offered a HC job with a number of teams.   That's one of the reasons Irsay changed his mind.     Because he found out the rest of the NFL thought more highly of his coach and so he reconsidered.

 

As for "look where we are now".....     we're 7-7 and probably won't make the playoffs.     And other than the year that Peyton was hurt,  this is the worst season the Colts have had in nearly 20 years.     You think this is bad?   Then you don't know the meaning of bad.      Things could be so much more worse you have no idea.

 

You think you're suffering as a fan?       You don't know the meaning of the word.    By the way, I'm not trying to single you out,   I include any poster who agrees with you.       Things have to get much worse before I'd feel bad about my team.

 

Fans who are complaining about this year get no sympathy from me.      Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL.   That's why it's so hard to win consistantly year after year.

 

 

 

 

[dudley dawson]

30 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Sorry,   but I strongly disagree.

 

Everyone and their mother did NOT know that was a mistake.       You did.      Others here agreed with you.

 

NFL.com reported that had Pagano been fired last off-season,  he'd have been offered a HC job with a number of teams.   That's one of the reasons Irsay changed his mind.     Because he found out the rest of the NFL thought more highly of his coach and so he reconsidered.

 

As for "look where we are now".....     we're 7-7 and probably won't make the playoffs.     And other than the year that Peyton was hurt,  this is the worst season the Colts have had in nearly 20 years.     You think this is bad?   Then you don't know the meaning of bad.      Things could be so much more worse you have no idea.

 

You think you're suffering as a fan?       You don't know the meaning of the word.    By the way, I'm not trying to single you out,   I include any poster who agrees with you.       Things have to get much worse before I'd feel bad about my team.

 

Fans who are complaining about this year get no sympathy from me.      Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL.   That's why it's so hard to win consistantly year after year.

 

 

 

 

Irsay is wasting Andrew Luck's prime with an inept coach and GM.  You may think .500 is fine and missing the playoffs is ok, but myself and others hold this team to a higher standard.

[Jason_]

12 minutes ago, dudley dawson said:

Irsay is wasting Andrew Luck's prime with an inept coach and GM.  You may think .500 is fine and missing the playoffs is ok, but myself and others hold this team to a higher standard.

 

wow get over yourself.  no one wants the Colts to be at .500 and no one wants to miss the playoffs (except those who want to tank for a higher draft pick). 

 

By the way, being .500 and missing the playoffs have NOT been a recurring theme under Grigson and Pagano.  This is the ONLY year that they are at .500 and missing the playoffs with Andrew Luck, and there are a number of extenuating circumstances that have led them to be where they are now, and it has NOT been due to an inept coach and  GM.

[NewColtsFan]

34 minutes ago, dudley dawson said:

Irsay is wasting Andrew Luck's prime with an inept coach and GM.  You may think .500 is fine and missing the playoffs is ok, but myself and others hold this team to a higher standard.

 

I don't think 500 is fine and missing the playoffs is OK.   

 

But the "higher standards" line is nonsense.      You think fans of other teams who have suffered far, far, far worse than the Colts ever have don't hold their team to a high standard?      Of course they do.

 

You,  and countless others here, are spoiled.     You have things go right for you so much that you have no idea how hard this is.      Everything is obvious to people here in hindsight.      And decisions are easy for people here.    Then become a GM.       Because the 32 GM's in the NFL know how hard this is.    

 

If you don't think things can get worse from her than you're not paying attention to what goes on in the rest of the NFL.       Things can get worse.    And they often do.

 

Finding a good GM and HC are among the hardest things to do in all of sports.      Hey, if we can pull that off --- great --- I'm all for it.      But the odds are a long shot.     And having covered sports for 30 years and followed sports for 50 years, I understand that.     

 

As for wasting Lucks' years....     remember,  Peyton didn't win his first super bowl until his 9th season.

 

Luck is finishing his 5th.      He's hardly been wasted.

 

[Defjamz26]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Sorry,   but I strongly disagree.

 

Everyone and their mother did NOT know that was a mistake.       You did.      Others here agreed with you.

 

NFL.com reported that had Pagano been fired last off-season,  he'd have been offered a HC job with a number of teams.   That's one of the reasons Irsay changed his mind.     Because he found out the rest of the NFL thought more highly of his coach and so he reconsidered.

 

As for "look where we are now".....     we're 7-7 and probably won't make the playoffs.     And other than the year that Peyton was hurt,  this is the worst season the Colts have had in nearly 20 years.     You think this is bad?   Then you don't know the meaning of bad.      Things could be so much more worse you have no idea.

 

You think you're suffering as a fan?       You don't know the meaning of the word.    By the way, I'm not trying to single you out,   I include any poster who agrees with you.       Things have to get much worse before I'd feel bad about my team.

 

Fans who are complaining about this year get no sympathy from me.      Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL.   That's why it's so hard to win consistantly year after year.

 

 

 

 

I don't believe for a minute that teams were interested in Pagano. I don't even think he was interviewed for a HC gig before the Colts did in 2012.

 

And since 2012 he hasn't proven anything as a coach besides that he makes terrible calls and can't beat the Steelers or Patriots. He's also shown that he can only win the division when the other teams are trash. The Titans and Texans get marginally better and we're all but eliminated from the playoffs.

[dudley dawson]

2 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

wow get over yourself.  no one wants the Colts to be at .500 and no one wants to miss the playoffs (except those who want to tank for a higher draft pick). 

 

By the way, being .500 and missing the playoffs have NOT been a recurring theme under Grigson and Pagano.  This is the ONLY year that they are at .500 and missing the playoffs with Andrew Luck, and there are a number of extenuating circumstances that have led them to be where they are now, and it has NOT been due to an inept coach and  GM.

LOL Ryan, is that you?

[Jason_]

2 minutes ago, dudley dawson said:

LOL Ryan, is that you?

 

 

 

neither are inept at their jobs.  they've both made mistakes, but making mistakes doesn't mean you're inept...it means you're human.  If they were truly inept they wouldn't have made it 2 years with the Colts.

[dudley dawson]

3 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

 

 

neither are inept at their jobs.  they've both made mistakes, but making mistakes doesn't mean you're inept...it means you're human.  If they were truly inept they wouldn't have made it 2 years with the Colts.

Come on, they have Andrew Luck!  He is going to compile wins no matter who the coach is.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

I don't believe for a minute that teams were interested in Pagano. I don't even think he was interviewed for a HC gig before the Colts did in 2012.

 

And since 2012 he hasn't proven anything as a coach besides that he makes terrible calls and can't beat the Steelers or Patriots. He's also shown that he can only win the division when the other teams are trash. The Titans and Texans get marginally better and we're all but eliminated from the playoffs.

 

Whether other teams interviewed Pagano in 2012 is completely irrelevant to anything.    It means zero.    Sorry.      We're now talking about what happened in January of 2016 and by then, Pagano had shown he can win.

 

And his record,  you know,  the facts,  prove he gets an average to below average roster to play hard enough to win.        The fact that other teams are getting better is a Grigson issue,  not Pagano.

 

As for all but eliminated from the playoffs --- too bad.    Poor baby.     I don't know how you'll survive?    We'll likely go 8-8 this year.      That's two years in a row at 8-8 with one of those years we were without Luck for 9 of the 16 games.       My how you and the other spoiled fans here have suffered....

 

You guys have no idea how good you've had it.     You have no sense of appreciate for what this franchise has accomplished.      You guys had a Hall of Fame GM and couldn't wait to get rid of him at the end.     You get a new GM who goes 11-5 three straight years and a round further in the playoffs and posters here were still not happy.

 

Spoiled.       Spoiled rotten.     And far more interested in opinion than you are in facts.....

 

Sorry.

 

 

[VaAllDay757]

13 hours ago, southwest1 said:

What you mean like being infamously tied with the Tuck Rule & starting the Patriot Dynasty run? 

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/0ap2000000146416/The-Tuck-Rule

No like have 4 straight winning records with his first nfl coaching job

[RockThatBlue]

On 12/21/2016 at 6:38 PM, dudley dawson said:

Does anyone besides me fear Irsay doing something dumb and hiring Fisher as the next coach?  I wouldn't put it past him...

 

Gut feeling tells me Gruden will be coach/GM.  And I love that potential outcome.

No, since there more than likely won't be a change.

 

I'd vomit if it did happen, though. Just say no to Fisher

 

[Defjamz26]

55 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Whether other teams interviewed Pagano in 2012 is completely irrelevant to anything.    It means zero.    Sorry.      We're now talking about what happened in January of 2016 and by then, Pagano had shown he can win.

 

And his record,  you know,  the facts,  prove he gets an average to below average roster to play hard enough to win.        The fact that other teams are getting better is a Grigson issue,  not Pagano.

 

As for all but eliminated from the playoffs --- too bad.    Poor baby.     I don't know how you'll survive?    We'll likely go 8-8 this year.      That's two years in a row at 8-8 with one of those years we were without Luck for 9 of the 16 games.       My how you and the other spoiled fans here have suffered....

 

You guys have no idea how good you've had it.     You have no sense of appreciate for what this franchise has accomplished.      You guys had a Hall of Fame GM and couldn't wait to get rid of him at the end.     You get a new GM who goes 11-5 three straight years and a round further in the playoffs and posters here were still not happy.

 

Spoiled.       Spoiled rotten.     And far more interested in opinion than you are in facts.....

 

Sorry.

 

 

You're talking like Irsay now. You're strictly praising Pagano and Grigson based on their previous achievements. It's still a "what have you done for me lately" league. The Colts are about to be 2 years removed from their last 11-5 seasons. I'll admit that Colts fans are spoiled but I'm not one. I just know mediocre when I see it.

 

Spoiled is the fans who rather than risk having a few bad years to find the right coach/GM combo would rather keep the current regime in place and settle for being not that bad or not as bad as the Browns. I don't care if the next coach goes 6-10 his first season. Sometimes things have to get worse to get better.

 

Im not spoiled. Just done with the wait and see.

[RockThatBlue]

This board really underrates Gruden. No, hes not Belichick, but he had more successful seasons than not. He won a super bowl and I'm not sure we will even sniff a super bowl under Pagano. He probably would be better than Pagano IMO. Won't happen this year anyway so its all moot.

[southwest1]

3 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

This board really underrates Gruden. No, hes not Belichick, but he had more successful seasons than not. He won a super bowl and I'm not sure we will even sniff a super bowl under Pagano. He probably would be better than Pagano IMO. Won't happen this year anyway so its all moot.

I just don't know why people always throw Gruden's out there as a potential coach for INDY because he's not leaving the MNF booth. Just like Bill Cowher is never leaving the CBS analyst chair. The money is great, the hours are short other than a few TNF games for about 8 games, all the new rookie recruits talk to you & shower praise on you, & your travel plans & hotel accommodations are scheduled for & taken care of by someone else. 

 

Gee, let's leave that nice bubble for long sleepless nights & owners that tend to fire coaches in a yr as opposed to say 3 yrs if the head honcho is dissatisfied with the team's production in short order. 

 

I agree with you that John is a solid coach, but when things are good why leave a great situation? ESPN treats Gruden extremely well. He's off the NFL radar totally & he will die in the booth breaking down formations like spider y banana his personal favorite. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I just don't know why people always throw Gruden's out there as a potential coach for INDY because he's not leaving the MNF booth. Just like Bill Cowher is never leaving the CBS analyst chair. The money is great, the hours are short other than a few TNF games for about 8 games, all the new rookie recruits talk to you & shower praise on you, & your travel plans & hotel accommodations are scheduled for & taken care of by someone else. 

 

Gee, let's leave that nice bubble for long sleepless nights & owners that tend to fire coaches in a yr as opposed to say 3 yrs if the head honcho is dissatisfied with the team's production in short order. 

 

I agree with you that John is a solid coach, but when things are good why leave a great situation? ESPN treats Gruden extremely well. He's off the NFL radar totally & he will die in the booth breaking down formations like spider y banana his personal favorite. 

Yeah Gruden has a dream job and already has won a SB as Coach. I don't see him leaving that.

[AZColt11]

I don't have a dog in the "Gruden" fight.  Personally I wish they could lure Cowher out of retirement and we could watch him hurl spit at the refs again.  But I will say this in regards to Gruden:  he is an offensive coach and works REALLY well with QB's.  Look what Gannon did with the Raiders late in his career.  People forget how good that offense was doing prior to the Superbowl year.  Then his team got SCREWED out of a Superbowl trip that year in NE, which I think we have already hashed.  NE shoulda never gotten there, that should have been Oakland.  He did win one in Tampa but let's face it that defense was built before he got there and they rode that horse to a title.   So I think Gruden should have gotten one with the Raiders, which would make him look better but it didn't work out as we all know.

[RockThatBlue]

22 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I just don't know why people always throw Gruden's out there as a potential coach for INDY because he's not leaving the MNF booth. Just like Bill Cowher is never leaving the CBS analyst chair. The money is great, the hours are short other than a few TNF games for about 8 games, all the new rookie recruits talk to you & shower praise on you, & your travel plans & hotel accommodations are scheduled for & taken care of by someone else. 

 

Gee, let's leave that nice bubble for long sleepless nights & owners that tend to fire coaches in a yr as opposed to say 3 yrs if the head honcho is dissatisfied with the team's production in short order. 

 

I agree with you that John is a solid coach, but when things are good why leave a great situation? ESPN treats Gruden extremely well. He's off the NFL radar totally & he will die in the booth breaking down formations like spider y banana his personal favorite. 

I agree that he probably won't leave, but you never know until you ask (if we ever needed too)

 

It just bothers me how some people (not you sw1) act like he was a mediocre coach or something. Youd think he was Jeff Fisher by what some say about him lol.

[AZColt11]

More on Gruden.  I was wrong about one thing, that game in NE wasn't the AFC Championship, it was a Divisional round, but they still shoulda made it there.  Also, his record with Oakland (38-26) was much better than his record in TB where he didn't really have a QB (57-55).  And did you know he attended South Bend Clay H.S.?  Apparently his father was an assistant to Dan Devine at Notre Dame while he was in his late teens.  So he's effectively a "Hoosier", which is even more of a reason to root for the guy, no?

[southwest1]

46 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

I agree that he probably won't leave, but you never know until you ask (if we ever needed too)

 

It just bothers me how some people (not you sw1) act like he was a mediocre coach or something. Youd think he was Jeff Fisher by what some say about him lol.

Thanks RTB. I appreciate that. I suppose there's no harm in putting feelers out & seeing if Gruden still remains steadfast in not leaving ESPN. I just don't want Colt fans to get their hopes up that's all. 

 

Yeah, it is a mistake to trivialize how smart John is as a football coach. I think he gets unfairly undercut IQ wise whenever comedian Frank Calendo does his impersonation of John. I love the routine myself & to John's credit, he takes it all in stride. I understand why Gruden was reluctant to embrace the caricature of him at first. You are weary to embrace anything at 1st glance that might undermine your reputation as a coach & by definition the authority to teach others the fundamentals of football under your guidance. 

 

Yep, I never understood the mystique of Jeff Fisher at all. I always liked Steve McNair & his toughness but I never felt like Fisher made Steve what he was. 

[krunk]

I'm fine with Grigs and Pagano in 2017. Tighten up that defense with more talent like we are expected to and we will win more consistently next year I do believe. Tighten up the O line a bit more and that should do the trick. I'm all for firing them next year if we are sitting in the same position after improvements. I think we will be better. If

we are able to rely on the defense a bit more then it keeps the offense from doing extreme stuff to get points on the board. They can be patient when driving the football. We aren't that far off, but the usual suspects want you in that mindset

[rockywoj]

I really liked that time years ago when, with the Colts dominating the division year after year after year, Jeff Fisher showed up at a presser luncheon wearing a Peyton Manning jersey, saying he wanted to feel what it's like to be a winner.   That still cracks me up.

 

I wouldn't want him as the Colts head coach, though.

[csmopar]

On 12/21/2016 at 6:38 PM, dudley dawson said:

Does anyone besides me fear Irsay doing something dumb and hiring Fisher as the next coach?  I wouldn't put it past him...

 

Gut feeling tells me Gruden will be coach/GM.  And I love that potential outcome.

no chance in h e double hockey sticks this happens.  At all, Fisher is more than likely done in the NFL

[Dudley Smith]

16 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

 

 

neither are inept at their jobs.  they've both made mistakes, but making mistakes doesn't mean you're inept...it means you're human.  If they were truly inept they wouldn't have made it 2 years with the Colts.

 

Without knowing what goes on behind closed doors, it is hard to say Pagano is an inept coach in general. However, I think we can agree that his TO/game clock management has been borderline inept at times. That said, I think the biggest reason why many view him as underwhelming (myself included) is mostly due to him being billed a "defensive coach" and yet our defense has stunk up the joint to varying degrees every season he has been here outside of a performance or two per year. Part of that is talent of course, but you would like to see a defensive mind be able to scheme better to hide some of the deficiencies.

 

Regardless, unless the Colts lose these last two games and are under 500 I think both he and Grigson are back next season.

[Dark Superman]

I'm not sure on how I feel about Gruden.

[dgambill]

It won't happen. This staff will come back very similar to last year. Grigsons additions this past offseason should insure that he is retained. The pieces he has added look to have potential. Pagano hasn't lost the locker room and hasn't really made any devastating decisions mistakes. While Pagano doesn't send a tingle up my leg I don't think there is really a hot name out there that would warrant walking away from him. It would take a big name I would think to move on. I think he gets another year to improve this team or he definitely will be out next year. I think Irsay likes stability and isn't a huge fan of change. That said if this offseason blows up on us next year with Grigson or Pagano...I think he cleans house.