Explain this to me

[csmopar]

What is the upgrade from Pep to Chud?  Now, before you go too far, I myself wanted Pep gone, but to me, it looks like the exact same garbage play calling we had with Pep.  Yeah, Luck's INT rate is down a tad but is that really on Chud?  

 

So seriously, someone legitimately explain what the upgrade is? Cause I ain't seeing it.

[UKColt13]

Go back and watch a Pep game from early last year, then watch the Jets game from last week.

 

You'll see the difference pretty quick. No coordinator bats 1.000

[MTC]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

What is the upgrade from Pep to Chud?  Now, before you go too far, I myself wanted Pep gone, but to me, it looks like the exact same garbage play calling we had with Pep.  Yeah, Luck's INT rate is down a tad but is that really on Chud?  

 

So seriously, someone legitimately explain what the upgrade is? Cause I ain't seeing it.

 

Basically how he utilizes the TEs more. 

[csmopar]

Just now, MTC said:

 

Basically how he utilizes the TEs more. 

Whoo who... big whoop. Lot of good it's doing us.

[tikyle]

Just now, UKColt13 said:

Go back and watch a Pep game from early last year, then watch the Jets game from last week.

 

You'll see the difference pretty quick. No coordinator bats 1.000

The Jets game can't be the barometer.  SF is picking them apart as I type.  Please use another measuring stick.

[csmopar]

And a different style obvious isn't helping. 

[UKColt13]

Just now, tikyle said:

The Jets game can't be the barometer.  SF is picking them apart as I type.  Please use another measuring stick.

 

Not necessarily commenting on the quality of the opponent. The playcalling was much better than Pep ever did. Utilizing players well and scheming guys open.

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, UKColt13 said:

Go back and watch a Pep game from early last year, then watch the Jets game from last week.

 

You'll see the difference pretty quick. No coordinator bats 1.000

the Jets are a very bad team..... 

 

and you're right, no coordinator bats 1.000 HOWEVER, we have a bubble head OC calling for shotgun on 4th and 1 when Turbin is 6-0 in 1 yard and shorter conversions.....  If it was only once, I 'd ignore that, but its every dang time.  Its predictable.  4th and 1, 3rd and 1, line up in shot gun, Luck to throw, INCOMPLETE , Game over. Everytime.

[csmopar]

Just now, UKColt13 said:

 

Not necessarily commenting on the quality of the opponent. The playcalling was much better than Pep ever did. Utilizing players well and scheming guys open.

even a broken clock is right twice a day.....

[Flash7]

I've said this before, but when we had Arians, we were a down-field throwing team. And then Pep came in and wanted to implement the Stanford, west-Coast-ish type of offense, but we ended up being a down-field throwing team. Now, we have Chud and we are a down-field throwing team. 

 

The constant is Luck. He either does not want to, or is not good at throwing short, timing, and crossing routes. In many ways, Luck has handicapped the OCs.

 

I used to think that Luck would be an offensive coordinator's dream. A big, strong, elusive QB who can make all the throws. But Now I am starting to think that Luck is limited, doesn't want to use roll-outs, and can't consistently throw crossing routes where he hits the receivers in stride. Otherwise, I can't explain why every offense he has been in looks the same.

 

Just consider how different the offense was with Hasselbeck, so it appears that the OC can change their style of play calling, but Luck can't change his style of play.

[UKColt13]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

the Jets are a very bad team..... 

 

and you're right, no coordinator bats 1.000 HOWEVER, we have a bubble head OC calling for shotgun on 4th and 1 when Turbin is 6-0 in 1 yard and shorter conversions.....  If it was only once, I 'd ignore that, but its every dang time.  Its predictable.  4th and 1, 3rd and 1, line up in shot gun, Luck to throw, INCOMPLETE , Game over. Everytime.

 

Got to contend with the fact that he knew he was working with at least 2 replacements on the Oline and Kelly who was hurt during the game and pressed back into service. Not sure I'd trust the run behind that line against Wilfork and Clowney.

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, UKColt13 said:

 

Got to contend with the fact that he knew he was working with at least 2 replacements on the Oline and Kelly who was hurt during the game. Not sure I'd trust the run behind that line against Wilfork and Clowney.

ok, what about the other dozen times Chud has called that same play in that same situation?

[Malakai432]

The offense would be much better if the other receivers could actually catch balls and create for themselves.  We clearly see Dorsett isn't capable "right now," Moncrief I feel is often injured and highly overrated, Dwayne Allen lacks situational awareness to the point where he can't even fall on a fumble and the OL is always decimated with injuries.  This team overall in is just not good.  We'll probably see more of the same next week against Minnesota. 

[UKColt13]

Just now, csmopar said:

ok, what about the other dozen times Chud has called that same play in that same situation?

 

OC trusting his QB to make the right choice. I don't have an issue with that.

 

I'm sure Luck has the ability to audible pass to run and visa versa.

[Surge89]

3 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

I've said this before, but when we had Arians, we were a down-field throwing team. And then Pep came in and wanted to implement the Stanford, west-Coast-ish type of offense, but we ended up being a down-field throwing team. Now, we have Chud and we are a down-field throwing team. 

 

The constant is Luck. He either does not want to, or is not good at throwing short, timing, and crossing routes. In many ways, Luck has handicapped the OCs.

 

I used to think that Luck would be an offensive coordinator's dream. A big, strong, elusive QB who can make all the throws. But Now I am starting to think that Luck is limited, doesn't want to use roll-outs, and can't consistently throw crossing routes where he hits the receivers in stride. Otherwise, I can't explain why every offense he has been in looks the same.

 

I agree.

 

Every single time he throws in the middle of the field it's high and behind.  That has never changed.

 

And before everyone overreacts here I'm not saying he's a trash QB but he isn't a great one.  He's just above average.  And you can quote any statistics you'd like I guarantee I can probably account for 30 to 40% of his statistics to the Jags and other below average teams.  And this will show in the coming years with the Texans and Titans becoming average teams instead of cellar dwellers. 

[Introspect]

18 minutes ago, tikyle said:

The Jets game can't be the barometer.  SF is picking them apart as I type.  Please use another measuring stick.

 

Exactly.....

[csmopar]

8 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

I agree.

 

Every single time he throws in the middle of the field it's high and behind.  That has never changed.

 

And before everyone overreacts here I'm not saying he's a trash QB but he isn't a great one.  He's just above average.  And you can quote any statistics you'd like I guarantee I can probably account for 30 to 40% of his statistics to the Jags and other below average teams.  And this will show in the coming years with the Texans and Titans becoming average teams instead of cellar dwellers. 

considering that the Colts have played in the AFC south and for the most part, those other teams have been trash for the length of Luck's career, yeah you're gonna be right with that statement...... duh

[Introspect]

9 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

I agree.

 

Every single time he throws in the middle of the field it's high and behind.  That has never changed.

 

And before everyone overreacts here I'm not saying he's a trash QB but he isn't a great one.  He's just above average.  And you can quote any statistics you'd like I guarantee I can probably account for 30 to 40% of his statistics to the Jags and other below average teams.  And this will show in the coming years with the Texans and Titans becoming average teams instead of cellar dwellers. 

 

This is why a head coaching change is needed. Someone needs to get in to luck and change these bad habits!  Chew is butt out.... (You can say what u want but Jim Mora aided in Mannings development by holding him accountable.

[Bluefire4]

Chud has been great for the majority of this year so I don't know where this is coming from.

 

All I know is that if we ran on fourth down and didn't get it there would be a whole lot of people on here criticizing that as well.

[IinD]

Pep is leading the winless Browns so I guess Chud is better?

 

I honestly have no idea what's wrong at this point, but my guess is Luck partially shell shocked from getting hit and the coaches honestly just not knowing how to utilize or judge talent or scheme for specific opponents.

 

How long before players tune out Chuck and his chop wood nonsense? I'm sure some have checked out already to his messages.

[Smoke317]

People love to blame Pep then give Chud credit.  Chud deserves credit for nothing. Luck's best statistical year came under Pep. That year he used the tight ends and backs a lot. So Chud hasn't improved in that area.

 

But let's look at all the factors. Chud has a much better offensive line than Pep ever had. Yes they're young but they're better than what Luck had during Pep's tenure. Chud has Gore. Pep was stuck with having to put Richardson on the field so as not to make it obvious we got fleeced in that trade. Chud has more dynamic weapons at receiver than Pep ever had. 

 

And here's the last factor, yes we struggled early last year but Luck was clearly hurt early in the season. In the first game of the season, he underthrew TY on what was a sure TD but it led to an interception. Luck was never himself last year outside of the Broncos game. 

 

So in closing Chud has done nothing. He occasionally shows glimpses of a solid gameplan but there's no consistency. This offense is still as helter skelter as it was last year when Luck was hurt. I promise you that you can go back two seasons ago and find more consistency than Chud has shown us this year and he's had much more to work with...  So talk all you want about how terrible Pep was, but to act like Chud has improved on anything is just a flat out lie. When Chud gets Andrew to 40 TD's, or 4700 passing yards, or less than 10 Int's then you can talk about how Chud has improved on anything.  

 

From the looks of things, Luck will never hit any of those 3 stats under Chud...  Yet he's supposedly better than Pep...  Instead of firing Pep, they should have fired Pagano and moved Pep to HC. Then after the season, bring in an entire new staff that can get the most out of what we got. Chuck and Chud ain't it. And might as well put Grigson on that train outta town too. 

[Smoke317]

12 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

Chud has been great for the majority of this year so I don't know where this is coming from.

 

All I know is that if we ran on fourth down and didn't get it there would be a whole lot of people on here criticizing that as well.

How has Chud been great for the "majority" of the year when our offense remains inconsistent???  He's had occasional great gameplans or plays but more often than not our offense doesn't show up. And he seems completely unable to make in game adjustments. 

 

As as far as the 4th down, I sure would have criticized a run if they went to the dumb "jumbo" formation where they take out all of our receivers and basically tell the defense we're running. We've never been successful at that. Yet Chud continues to do it. Add to that he'll bring in the jumbo and try to be cute and pass off of it with 2 men running routes...  So we've got no speed to create separation. Luck has to hold the ball and he gets sacked...  Why not spread them out and give Luck a run pass option?  Why not bunch the receivers and create some rub routes?

 

Chud has been mediocre for the majority of the year. And though Luck has naturally matured and improved, it's not due to Chud. Because under Chud, Luck has statistically and argumentatively been passed up by the likes of Carr, Ryan, Stafford, Wilson, Mariotta, and maybe even Cousins...  Chud has shown me nothing. If Pep can be fired for whatever his issues were, Chud deserves the same. 

[richard pallo]

Chud's play calling and game plan for this game was awful.  The last play we ran sums it up.  4th and one and you call a screen pass with a banged up Ol and some players playing out of position.  A screen pass calls for the Ol to sell the play.  Pretty hard to do with the players we had in the line at that time.  What's wrong with a roll out and giving Luck a choice to run or throw for the yard.  I was frustrated the entire game with the play calling.  Does Luck ever audible out of a play?  He's a smart guy but I feel like he is just running what is called.  Sometimes I feel he is just a guy who runs what he's told and doesn't get involved in offering suggestions.  I think it's time for him to be assertive and stop being Mr. Nice Guy. 

[Bluefire4]

Just FYI Luck just said at his press conference there were multiple decisions on the fourth down and he decided to go with the screen... just saying.

[Smoke317]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Chud's play calling and game plan for this game was awful.  The last play we ran sums it up.  4th and one and you call a screen pass with a banged up Ol and some players playing out of position.  A screen pass calls for the Ol to sell the play.  Pretty hard to do with the players we had in the line at that time.  What's wrong with a roll out and giving Luck a choice to run or throw for the yard.  I was frustrated the entire game with the play calling.  Does Luck ever audible out of a play?  He's a smart guy but I feel like he is just running what is called.  Sometimes I feel he is just a guy who runs what he's told and doesn't get involved in offering suggestions.  I think it's time for him to be assertive and stop being Mr. Nice Guy. 

Might be time to get an OC in here who can nurture that kind of growth and development in Luck. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

47 minutes ago, Malakai432 said:

The offense would be much better if the other receivers could actually catch balls and create for themselves.  We clearly see Dorsett isn't capable "right now," Moncrief I feel is often injured and highly overrated, Dwayne Allen lacks situational awareness to the point where he can't even fall on a fumble and the OL is always decimated with injuries.  This team overall in is just not good.  We'll probably see more of the same next week against Minnesota. 

i concur, grigs has put together a below average team talent wise and bad first round picks, please dont let him do our draft picks anymore

[Malakai432]

1 minute ago, Bluefire4 said:

Just FYI Luck just said at his press conference there were multiple decisions on the fourth down and he decided to go with the screen... just saying.

 

 

 

That's odd considering they hardly ever run screens in the first place, go figure.

[Superman]

36 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

Chud has been great for the majority of this year so I don't know where this is coming from.

 

Sadly, that's not close to being true.

[crestmount]

Doesn't matter who your OC is if the receivers can't catch the ball.  One of the worst teams in the comp for dropping the ball--I realise that some of the catches are difficult, but these guys should be able to hold onto the ball a lot better than they are

[Superman]

50 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

Every single time he throws in the middle of the field it's high and behind.  That has never changed.

 

This is also not true. 

 

Chud's play calling, especially in the passing game, has been incomprehensible, especially today. Until they give Luck clear throwing lanes and quick hitters, there's no real way to judge Luck's throwing across the middle. There's constant pressure up the middle, affecting Luck's throwing motion. 

 

I don't understand why they can't run some simple rhythm plays to get the offense going. Almost everything Luck threw today was high difficulty, into tight coverage, through small windows...

 

The McKinney tip basically illustrates the shortcomings of the passing game. They're playing deep zone coverage, blitzing up the middle, leaving the middle of the field wide open -- like they did most of the game. When your middle linebacker is sagging 15 yards back, it's a sin to not work the middle. 

 

I officially hate this offense.

[deedub75]

1 hour ago, UKColt13 said:

 

Not necessarily commenting on the quality of the opponent. The playcalling was much better than Pep ever did. Utilizing players well and scheming guys open.

 

He could have called the same play over and over with the same result in that game.  

[Bluefire4]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Sadly, that's not close to being true.

 

17 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

How has Chud been great for the "majority" of the year when our offense remains inconsistent???  He's had occasional great gameplans or plays but more often than not our offense doesn't show up. And he seems completely unable to make in game adjustments. 

 

As as far as the 4th down, I sure would have criticized a run if they went to the dumb "jumbo" formation where they take out all of our receivers and basically tell the defense we're running. We've never been successful at that. Yet Chud continues to do it. Add to that he'll bring in the jumbo and try to be cute and pass off of it with 2 men running routes...  So we've got no speed to create separation. Luck has to hold the ball and he gets sacked...  Why not spread them out and give Luck a run pass option?  Why not bunch the receivers and create some rub routes?

 

Chud has been mediocre for the majority of the year. And though Luck has naturally matured and improved, it's not due to Chud. Because under Chud, Luck has statistically and argumentatively been passed up by the likes of Carr, Ryan, Stafford, Wilson, Mariotta, and maybe even Cousins...  Chud has shown me nothing. If Pep can be fired for whatever his issues were, Chud deserves the same. 

Love to hear some examples from games where the play calling was awful. Can't think of many. We lost in the beginning of the season because our defense was destroyed with injury. The Broncos and Chiefs have tough defense and those are the only games where the Colts offense didn't show up.

 

And as for those quarterbacks that is ridiculous. The only reason most of them have better stats is because Luck missed a game. Plus all of them have better offensive lines and have more time to make decisions.

 

Anyone can point to the lack of short throws but we saw those today. We don't have the personnel to get quick completions. All of the short throws to Dorsett ended in 4 yard gains because he cannot break any tackles. Anytime we throw short the receiver is immediately tackled and most times it ends with a three and out. I can't fault Chud for trying to play to the offense's strengths.

 

[deedub75]

1 hour ago, Malakai432 said:

The offense would be much better if the other receivers could actually catch balls and create for themselves.  We clearly see Dorsett isn't capable "right now," Moncrief I feel is often injured and highly overrated, Dwayne Allen lacks situational awareness to the point where he can't even fall on a fumble and the OL is always decimated with injuries.  This team overall in is just not good.  We'll probably see more of the same next week against Minnesota. 

 

Or if we had some better receivers or if we at least had receivers who weren't one trick ponies.  

[richard pallo]

3 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

 

Love to hear some examples from games where the play calling was awful. Can't think of many. We lost in the beginning of the season because our defense was destroyed with injury. The Broncos and Chiefs have tough defense and those are the only games where the Colts offense didn't show up.

 

And as for those quarterbacks that is ridiculous. The only reason most of them have better stats is because Luck missed a game. Plus all of them have better offensive lines and have more time to make decisions.

 

Anyone can point to the lack of short throws but we saw those today. We don't have the personnel to get quick completions. All of the short throws to Dorsett ended in 4 yard gains because he cannot break any tackles. Anytime we throw short the receiver is immediately tackled and most times it ends with a three and out. I can't fault Chud for trying to play to the offense's strengths.

 

I think we do have a couple of receivers who could get quick completions.  Hilton, Dorsett, Rogers.  The problem is the routes are primarily hitches or quick turns on the ball instead of leading the receiver so they can stay in stride.  The routes we run require them to break tackles most of the time.  A few rub routes and pick plays would go a long way. 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

Love to hear some examples from games where the play calling was awful. Can't think of many.

 

I didn't say he's been awful, but he certainly hasn't been great. IMO he was awful today and against Denver. 

 

Also, short passing =/= quick passing. When your short options are 3rd or 4th progressions, you're still getting a lot of pressure. When your OL struggles to protect, you need quick passing. When your QB is 9/22, you need high percentage throws.

 

And at this point, Pagano has to own the offensive issues, because this is obviously his preferred offense. The Colts don't have the OL to run it. Good coaching would mandate a philosophical change in the meantime. It's been five years. 

[weslo1812]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I didn't say he's been awful, but he certainly hasn't been great. IMO he was awful today and against Denver. 

 

Also, short passing =/= quick passing. When your short options are 3rd or 4th progressions, you're still getting a lot of pressure. When your OL struggles to protect, you need quick passing. When your QB is 9/22, you need high percentage throws.

 

And at this point, Pagano has to own the offensive issues, because this is obviously his preferred offense. The Colts don't have the OL to run it. Good coaching would mandate a philosophical change in the meantime. It's been five years. 

Good Stuff Superman!!! I just sit here and wonder how long this mediocrity is gonna be allowed, and this constant trend of us being consistently inconsistent at just about everything we do. It's the same thing week and week out with this team, we have no idea who and what sorta team will show up. Getting really really really old.

[RockThatBlue]

I think Chuds play calling overall is much better than Pep. Chud is really bad in short yardage situations though.

[IinD]

5 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

I think Chuds play calling overall is much better than Pep. Chud is really bad in short yardage situations though.

Agreed. I forget the play a few weeks back where we went empty backfield on 4th and many if us were perplexed.

 

You'd think a former TE would understand short yardage better as they usually are a first down outlet or primary blockers in short yardage.

 

Definitely miss Tom Moore.

[LockeDown]

Polian, Dungy and Manning knew what to do and how to do it.  It was a matter of execution which they eventually excelled at.   This group is a far cry from that. 

[King Colt]

My date for my senior prom was voted the most beautiful of all. I never thought my sister was that good looking.