Which type of line backer?

[KB]

So in the first round its widely agreed upon that a linebacker should be the first pick. Which type would you want more though?

 

The reason I ask is because Edwin Jackson is playing solid football and I would not mind seeing him start next season. Grabbing either Foster or Cunningham in the first could give us solid starting ILBs. The need for pass rush is there though and grabbing a good one like Harris, Williams, McKinnley, etc. would do world's of good for this defence.

 

If we make the playoffs and pick later I would love to grab either Cunningham or McKinnley.  Which type would you rather grab, and what would you do in the following rounds?

[SP_21]

I want Reuben Foster if he's available. If not Zach Cunningham will do . If both are gone. Idk. 

[NewColtsFan]

 

The number one thing any good defense tries to do is pressure the quarterback.

 

That rarely, if ever comes from the inside linebackers.     At least,  not on a season-long basis.

 

If you want the heat game in and game out,  and you play a 3-4,  then you need pressure from your OLB's.

 

I love both Foster and Cunningham,   but I want the next Mathis.     We have to find that guy.

 

[SP_21]

38 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

The number one thing any good defense tries to do is pressure the quarterback.

 

That rarely, if ever comes from the inside linebackers.     At least,  not on a season-long basis.

 

If you want the heat game in and game out,  and you play a 3-4,  then you need pressure from your OLB's.

 

I love both Foster and Cunningham,   but I want the next Mathis.     We have to find that guy.

 

Unfortunately that's not likely to happen. Hopefully we draft Foster and Charles 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, KB said:

So in the first round its widely agreed upon that a linebacker should be the first pick

 

Not really.

[KB]

21 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Not really.

What position do you believe we should go with then? I've seen your rule of no rb in the first.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, KB said:

What position do you believe we should go with then? I've seen your rule of no rb in the first.

 

I don't agree with targeting specific positions in specific rounds, and I don't agree with the thinking that says you must address specific needs in specific rounds in the draft.

[NewColtsFan]

54 minutes ago, SP_21 said:

Unfortunately that's not likely to happen. Hopefully we draft Foster and Charles 

 

To be clear,  I don't mean we have to find the next Robert Mathis.      I mean, we have to find the next solid pass rusher.     A player who can deliver roughly 10-12 sacks a year.      He might not ever have a 19.5 sack season like Mathis had a few years back,   but a guy who will lead the team in sacks most every year he's in the league.

 

And I think that's a reasonable goal.      It may not happen,  but I think it's possible....

 

[NewColtsFan]

55 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Not really.

 

I think linebacker,  and I'm including both outside AND inside,  would be the early favorite as we sit here in early December.        Could we take another position?      Sure.    Grigson proved that with the Dorsett pick.

 

But I think when the 2017 draft starts and everyone is in the Colts War Room,  I think everyone will be hoping that a pass rusher they like and want falls to them in the first round.

 

[akcolt]

I want the best player on the Defensive side of the ball. OLB, ILB, CB, DL. It doesn't matter.  I don't want to see a RB the first 2 days. I wouldn't upset me if  every pick in this draft went to the D. 

 

[KB]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't agree with targeting specific positions in specific rounds, and I don't agree with the thinking that says you must address specific needs in specific rounds in the draft.

This isn't to pigeonhole a position to a round, but with the available talent and the needs of the team, the position most likely to be chosen would be a linebacker of some kind IMO. it could be DL like Malik McDowell but if we make the playoffs he's probably gonna be gone by our pick. A good safety could be available but let's not touch that because then the burning sticks and pitchforks would follow. I know we need defense but I wouldn't mind Dan Feeney at RG with a much later first round pick. The combos are endless.

 

What I was really trying to see was if people would rather see a solid ILB core next year wI think our early pick or a rusher. Seems 50/50 at this point.

[Coltsfan1953]

Assuming both are of equal talent, I think a rush linebacker would be the best way to go but what do I know. 

[throwing BBZ]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

To be clear,  I don't mean we have to find the next Robert Mathis.      I mean, we have to find the next solid pass rusher.     A player who can deliver roughly 10-12 sacks a year.      He might not ever have a 19.5 sack season like Mathis had a few years back,   but a guy who will lead the team in sacks most every year he's in the league.

 

And I think that's a reasonable goal.      It may not happen,  but I think it's possible....

 

 

 I would hope for a OLB that plays the run better.

[OffensivelyPC]

11 hours ago, SP_21 said:

I want Reuben Foster if he's available. If not Zach Cunningham will do . If both are gone. Idk. 

I'm starting to take a liking to Azeem Victor.

[KB]

46 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I'm starting to take a liking to Azeem Victor.

I heard somewhere (sorry no credible source) that he was thinking of returning to UW for another year. He would be a nice selection though.

[COLTS449]

OLB. We can get a good ILB in the mid 2nd. Off the top of my head, look at guys like Eric Kendricks, Bobby Wagner, Jordan Hicks, Levonte David, etc who all went in the 2nd or 3rd. No matter how good E-Jax looks from here on out we still need a guy next to him. A guy like the names I listed above. We need to find our own version of an Eric Kendricks type in the 2nd round

[Track Guy]

8 hours ago, akcolt said:

I want the best player on the Defensive side of the ball. OLB, ILB, CB, DL. It doesn't matter.  I don't want to see a RB the first 2 days. I wouldn't upset me if  every pick in this draft went to the D. 

 

 

We are bad at running the football though. This must be fixed. I don't want to see a round 1 running back, but with the position juiced up with talent this year, a special player at that position falling to us in round 2 I'd be more than okay with taking one. I'd specifically be yelling at the tv to do so. 

 

Pass rusher is the biggest need and will fix a lot of the other defensive problems. I really think there will be a good pass rusher available in round 1, and unless there is a transcendent talent at some other position it will be very hard to pass on selecting that guy. 

[OffensivelyPC]

1 hour ago, KB said:

I heard somewhere (sorry no credible source) that he was thinking of returning to UW for another year. He would be a nice selection though.

There will be other guys, I just saw him play a while back and read some things about him and liked him.  I know he's had a season ending injury, so it would not surprise me if he went back next year.  But for a guy who was a pass rusher converted linebacker in college, he's shown some versatility and he appeared to be decent in coverage as well.  He could stand to put on a few pounts at the next level, but for what he is now, I like some of what I've seen.  I wonder what his draft stock would be despite the injury should he reverse course and declare.

[KB]

8 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

There will be other guys, I just saw him play a while back and read some things about him and liked him.  I know he's had a season ending injury, so it would not surprise me if he went back next year.  But for a guy who was a pass rusher converted linebacker in college, he's shown some versatility and he appeared to be decent in coverage as well.  He could stand to put on a few pounts at the next level, but for what he is now, I like some of what I've seen.  I wonder what his draft stock would be despite the injury should he reverse course and declare.

He played well and has a high ceiling but  I wouldn't say elite. I would say with the injury 4th or 5th. It's anyone's guess. If he stays and has a solid year he could go up to the 2nd

[OffensivelyPC]

19 minutes ago, KB said:

He played well and has a high ceiling but  I wouldn't say elite. I would say with the injury 4th or 5th. It's anyone's guess. If he stays and has a solid year he could go up to the 2nd

I saw, before his injury, he was projected as top 45 pick.  That was of course way to premature, not because of talent or anything like that, but you never know what an "accurate" draft board will look like in mid-season.

[KB]

34 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I saw, before his injury, he was projected as top 45 pick.  That was of course way to premature, not because of talent or anything like that, but you never know what an "accurate" draft board will look like in mid-season.

Wow I wouldn't think he would of been that high. Heck with that he could go in the third even with an injury.

[Archer]

The Rush OLB prospects seem to be a little too risky for my taste, whereas the ILB prospects seem to be safe picks.  Since we are more likely than not headed to the playoffs (debatable, I know), I think we'll actually miss out on Foster, Cunningham, and Tim Williams.  So, I'm really starting to settle on Jarrad Davis of Florida.  Some consider him an OLB, but I think he'd be a great ILB for us.  He's called a field general and an emotional leader.  After making D'Qwell a salary cap casualty, we'd need the leadership.  And he's a real stud who can go sideline to sideline, cover, and tackle. 

[DougDew]

As NCF said, OLB/pass rusher is the most pressing need.  With today's nickle and dime sub packages, its likely an ILB might get taken off the field, whereas the OLB plays all three downs.

 

Sure, a far superior stud ILB can play three downs and might be the better pick, but unless that guy stands out near draft time, the most likely LB to be available when the Colts pick (likely mid-round) will be an OLB.

 

I'm talking in terms of generalities, not specific college players at this time.

[Superman]

On 12/5/2016 at 11:11 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

I think linebacker,  and I'm including both outside AND inside,  would be the early favorite as we sit here in early December.        Could we take another position?      Sure.    Grigson proved that with the Dorsett pick.

 

But I think when the 2017 draft starts and everyone is in the Colts War Room,  I think everyone will be hoping that a pass rusher they like and want falls to them in the first round.

 

 

I'm not predicting anything, I just don't endorse the idea that in any specific round, a specific position needs to be addressed. It would be awesome if a stud pass rusher drops to wherever the Colts pick, but if they pick in the 20s, any stud pass rusher would have some kind of flaw.

[GoColts00]

I have been watching Takkarist McKinley for awhile now and he is the Real deal. He's quick, fast, diagnoses well. High motor. Great agility. He is still raw but very talented. Fast forward to 6:49. I used a stopwatch and came up with 4.7 seconds for him to get off the snap, change direction and run the RB down from behind!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_DHNYkkS6Y

 

I like Edwin Jackson at ILB. I would really like the Colts to get another ILB thru a trade, if possible. (C.J. Mosley).

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not predicting anything, I just don't endorse the idea that in any specific round, a specific position needs to be addressed. It would be awesome if a stud pass rusher drops to wherever the Colts pick, but if they pick in the 20s, any stud pass rusher would have some kind of flaw.

 

I want to be clear (if I can....)

 

I'm subscribing to what Grigson said right after the Dorsett pick.      If there are a several players all with roughly the same grade,   then Grigson says he's picking for need.  

 

But....  if there's one player on the board with a much, much higher grade,  and he insisted that Dorsett did,  then he's taking that player.      I didn't like the pick,  but I supported the drafting theory that Grigson expressed.

 

If all the pass rushers we love are gone and there isn't one worth a pick roughly 18-22 (where I think we'll pick)  then I'm fine if we take another defensive player.     Corner -- fine.   ILB -- fine.     Heck, Safety -- fine.   DL -- fine.  As long as we're improving the defense.

 

But I think I might stroke out if Grigson is sitting there after picking another offensive weapon and saying again,  that this tight end (or other offensive player)  was just too high up on the board for us to pass.      I really don't want to stroke out over a draft pick.     I only want to build a defense....      I've only been saying that since 2014....

 

For the record,   I think we're going to win 3 of our last 4.     I think we'll beat Houston and J'Ville and win one of our two with Minnesota and Oakland.   I would think the Vikings but wouldn't rule out the Raiders.    

 

I think 9-7 wins the South.    If we blow out,  we could pick 18-20.    If we make the post-season,  it's likely pick 21-22.       

[ztboiler]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I want to be clear (if I can....)

 

I'm subscribing to what Grigson said right after the Dorsett pick.      If there are a several players all with roughly the same grade,   then Grigson says he's picking for need.  

 

But....  if there's one player on the board with a much, much higher grade,  and he insisted that Dorsett did,  then he's taking that player.      I didn't like the pick,  but I supported the drafting theory that Grigson expressed.

 

If all the pass rushers we love are gone and there isn't one worth a pick roughly 18-22 (where I think we'll pick)  then I'm fine if we take another defensive player.     Corner -- fine.   ILB -- fine.     Heck, Safety -- fine.   DL -- fine.  As long as we're improving the defense.

 

But I think I might stroke out if Grigson is sitting there after picking another offensive weapon and saying again,  that this tight end (or other offensive player)  was just too high up on the board for us to pass.      I really don't want to stroke out over a draft pick.     I only want to build a defense....      I've only been saying that since 2014....

 

For the record,   I think we're going to win 3 of our last 4.     I think we'll beat Houston and J'Ville and win one of our two with Minnesota and Oakland.   I would think the Vikings but wouldn't rule out the Raiders.    

 

I think 9-7 wins the South.    If we blow out,  we could pick 18-20.    If we make the post-season,  it's likely pick 21-22.       

We need to stay open to the possibility of selecting an OT in the first if it's BPA given the unrest on the right side and inconsistent play from Castonzo the last 2 years.  Especially if the long term plan for Haeg is determined to be G.  

 

Clark may need another year also, no way to know. 

 

I'd prefer the first 4 picks to be BPA defense...but we probably need another long term solution at OT in development, and we can certainly justify an early pick there.

 

Furthermore, there is some decent UFA talent on the defensive side that could be worth starter level contracts....though I'm not excited about any big contacts for pass rushers.  Maybe Ingram.

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

We need to stay open to the possibility of selecting an OT in the first if it's BPA given the unrest on the right side and inconsistent play from Castonzo the last 2 years.  Especially if the long term plan for Haeg is determined to be G.  

 

Clark may need another year also, no way to know. 

 

I'd prefer the first 4 picks to be BPA defense...but we probably need another long term solution at OT in development, and we can certainly justify an early pick there.

 

Furthermore, there is some decent UFA talent on the defensive side that could be worth starter level contracts....though I'm not excited about any big contacts for pass rushers.  Maybe Ingram.

 

Interesting post.....

 

Couple of points.....     first,  this is being called one of the worst class of OT's in many, many years.     Just terrible.     Maybe 3 OT's in the 1st R and one of them I think is going back to school.   (The ND player)   And none of the possible 1st round OT's appear to be special.

 

Second....    hard to see the Colts investing another high pick on developmental OT just one year after we invested a 3 on Clark.      I'd say if we do that,  then we're signaling that Clark is a bust and we have no confidence that he's going to develop.      So, I sure hope that's not the case.      

 

Also....    I don't think Grigson wants to spend a 1st on a Right Tackle if he can avoid it.    I think he only spent a 3 on Clark because his ceiling is so ridiculously high.     He's got every measurement, physical and mental, you'd want for an OT.     Boy, I'd sure love to know that he's going to pay-off.    If he does,  then our future on the OL is so bright,  because Haeg or Good could be the RG for a long time.    That would be a heck of an OL.

 

I'm so ready for 3 defensive picks in a row over the first two days.     But I'm hoping that on Day 3,  our first pick is the much needed running back to eventually replace Gore.     I don't want to wait another moment to draft that back.    At the start of the season,  I was willing to spend a 2.     Then,   around October, I moved back to a 3.   And now,  I'm willing to move back again to a 4.      But not one pick later!        

 

Sorry for the length of the post....   just wanted to touch all the bases....

 

[krunk]

Don't see why we would invest in another tackle when you should have  a developed Clark and Haeg.    

[KB]

7 minutes ago, krunk said:

Don't see why we would invest in another tackle when you should have  a developed Clark and Haeg.    

Depth. I was actually looking into it last night and Javarius Leamon out of South Carolina State seems to have good value in the later rounds. Height: 6-7. Weight: 310. From what I read he could be a starter at left tackle some day but does need work. This would allow a scenario of Heag at RG and Clark at RT (if he develops enough) and still have depth at the LT and RT positions. Our line isn't grade A so improvements should always be considered even if just depth.

[krunk]

12 minutes ago, KB said:

Depth. I was actually looking into it last night and Javarius Leamon out of South Carolina State seems to have good value in the later rounds. Height: 6-7. Weight: 310. From what I read he could be a starter at left tackle some day but does need work. This would allow a scenario of Heag at RG and Clark at RT (if he develops enough) and still have depth at the LT and RT positions. Our line isn't grade A so improvements should always be considered even if just depth.

I could see a guard maybe, or another guy like Haeg.  Not a high draft pick on a tackle.

Don't see it at that point.  Obviously I don't make the decisions though.

[ztboiler]

15 minutes ago, krunk said:

I could see a guard maybe, or another guy like Haeg.  Not a high draft pick on a tackle.

Don't see it at that point.  Obviously I don't make the decisions though.

Point is....if you do the math, it's not the luxury pick it initially seems like.

 

Reitz is done as anything more than utility depth.  Clark has never played a snap.  Haeg may be a G, Good may pan out and may not, Castonzo may not be good enough anymore.  

 

We may need 2 tackles 

[KB]

 

32 minutes ago, krunk said:

I could see a guard maybe, or another guy like Haeg.  Not a high draft pick on a tackle.

Don't see it at that point.  Obviously I don't make the decisions though.

I agree with not a high pick for a tackle. The guy I mentioned would be the 5th or 6th round. If the right guard is there with other talented players gone by our pick I would choose with a high pick. I really think Dan Feeney could help make this line a really good one. I like Good but he would make excellent depth vs a serviceableish starter.

[ztboiler]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Interesting post.....

 

Couple of points.....     first,  this is being called one of the worst class of OT's in many, many years.     Just terrible.     Maybe 3 OT's in the 1st R and one of them I think is going back to school.   (The ND player)   And none of the possible 1st round OT's appear to be special.

 

Second....    hard to see the Colts investing another high pick on developmental OT just one year after we invested a 3 on Clark.      I'd say if we do that,  then we're signaling that Clark is a bust and we have no confidence that he's going to develop.      So, I sure hope that's not the case.      

 

Also....    I don't think Grigson wants to spend a 1st on a Right Tackle if he can avoid it.    I think he only spent a 3 on Clark because his ceiling is so ridiculously high.     He's got every measurement, physical and mental, you'd want for an OT.     Boy, I'd sure love to know that he's going to pay-off.    If he does,  then our future on the OL is so bright,  because Haeg or Good could be the RG for a long time.    That would be a heck of an OL.

 

I'm so ready for 3 defensive picks in a row over the first two days.     But I'm hoping that on Day 3,  our first pick is the much needed running back to eventually replace Gore.     I don't want to wait another moment to draft that back.    At the start of the season,  I was willing to spend a 2.     Then,   around October, I moved back to a 3.   And now,  I'm willing to move back again to a 4.      But not one pick later!        

 

Sorry for the length of the post....   just wanted to touch all the bases....

 

I don't disagree with anything you say here.....I want all defense myself!

 

But, I think we may have a need a tackle emerging....and I'm not too hung up on what the draft board may or may not project as 1st round players this time of year.

[krunk]

41 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Point is....if you do the math, it's not the luxury pick it initially seems like.

 

Reitz is done as anything more than utility depth.  Clark has never played a snap.  Haeg may be a G, Good may pan out and may not, Castonzo may not be good enough anymore.  

 

We may need 2 tackles 

We should have a good idea what we have from both guys by that point.  If you do then I don't see it necessary.  I'd go with the two guys I know have experience.  Which would be Clark and Haeg. Clark may not have many games under his belt but they will have evaluated him for a year at that point.   Colts should have some kind of idea what they have in both of them.     I'm okay with adding another guy, but I just don't feel it needs to be a very high round pick.   Another solid Joe Haeg type of guy 4-5 round would be okay with me. A guy who could provide strong competition to Denzelle.   Plus there's always Free Agency to add to the options. 

[jameszeigler834]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 0:01 AM, KB said:

So in the first round its widely agreed upon that a linebacker should be the first pick. Which type would you want more though?

 

The reason I ask is because Edwin Jackson is playing solid football and I would not mind seeing him start next season. Grabbing either Foster or Cunningham in the first could give us solid starting ILBs. The need for pass rush is there though and grabbing a good one like Harris, Williams, McKinnley, etc. would do world's of good for this defence.

 

If we make the playoffs and pick later I would love to grab either Cunningham or McKinnley.  Which type would you rather grab, and what would you do in the following rounds?

I am going to say we will need another star at ILB if either are there we cant pass on them plus I don't think Morrison is the answer I think Pagano needs to reconsider starting him this week.

[BCoop]

Just now, jameszeigler834 said:

I am going to say we will need another star at ILB if either are there we cant pass on them plus I don't think Morrison is the answer I think Pagano needs to reconsider starting him this week.

 

Well, it's Morrison or McNary. Take your choice.

 

Both are being pulled from the same steaming pile of dung.

[NewColtsFan]

55 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Point is....if you do the math, it's not the luxury pick it initially seems like.

 

Reitz is done as anything more than utility depth.  Clark has never played a snap.  Haeg may be a G, Good may pan out and may not, Castonzo may not be good enough anymore.  

 

We may need 2 tackles 

 

 

For whatever it's worth,  the o-line may be coming together at just the right time.

 

I've been reading in the last day or so that Luck has been sacked only 5 times total in his last 3 starts.

 

That's a HUGE turnaround.       So, if this continues,  we may be peaking at the right time for the stretch drive and it could be a good sign for the line in our near future and beyond.....

 

[weslo1812]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

For whatever it's worth,  the o-line may be coming together at just the right time.

 

I've been reading in the last day or so that Luck has been sacked only 5 times total in his last 3 starts.

 

That's a HUGE turnaround.       So, if this continues,  we may be peaking at the right time for the stretch drive and it could be a good sign for the line in our near future and beyond.....

 

Not sure if you saw it on the Monday night game vs the Jets but they showed a graphic and mentioned that since Luck has been drafted we have had 32 different starting OL combinations in his going on 5 years. So basically since Luck has been here there has never really been ANY continuity amongst our line. That's quite telling to me. I mean we can talk about the lack of talent at the individual level as cause for our problems, but to me this is the biggest issue we have right here. No continuity at all. Just when in the freaking world are we gonna be able to stay mostly healthy up front for at least 1 season? The number of injuries we deal with is just rediculous.

[Rally5]

On 12/6/2016 at 0:31 AM, NewColtsFan said:

 

The number one thing any good defense tries to do is pressure the quarterback.

 

That rarely, if ever comes from the inside linebackers.     At least,  not on a season-long basis.

 

If you want the heat game in and game out,  and you play a 3-4,  then you need pressure from your OLB's.

 

I love both Foster and Cunningham,   but I want the next Mathis.     We have to find that guy.

 

 

Amen!