Please Jim - DO NOT HIRE CHIP KELLY!!!!

[Myles]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

 

 

i think a lot of people wanted Chip to fail and are now using this season to claim he sucks.

Yep.   Even though he has a winning record with what people said was a crappy roster he put together.

 

He did fail in Philly though.   When you use so much cap on players (Murray) who don't play in your system, you screw yourself.

[Myles]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

The only player move I questioned was signing a RB for big money.

Ha ha, you beat me to it.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, wig said:

 

Yeah, nobody would disagree. Certainly not Chip.  If you go 3 and out consistently, you're not running more plays. The most important play in his offense is first down.  2nd and 4-6 gives him options and the ability to use tempo.  Options means he can use tempo, which means the defense can't sub.  If you have your base D on the field and can't sub, your big hogs remain on the field, you have fewer pass rushers and you can't move to nickel or dime.  This is why first down is so important, and why he wants receivers that excel at blocking.  Also why he wants RBs that can run and catch.  If his offense has players that are multiple against a base defense, bad things happen.

 

 

Now that's sounding more like a normal coach.  I think if an O is good, more plays leads to more scores..if the O is bad...it leads to more 3 and outs or interceptions.  I think that's what it comes down too, not a purely uptempo guiding philosophy as a means to turn an average O into a good one, and certainly not TOP stats.

[wig]

15 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Now that's sounding more like a normal coach.  I think if an O is good, more plays leads to more scores..if the O is bad...it leads to more 3 and outs or interceptions.  I think that's what it comes down too, not a purely uptempo guiding philosophy as a means to turn an average O into a good one, and certainly not TOP stats.

 

If more people knew his philosophy as I do, the entire forum would be begging for him.

[crazycolt1]

8 minutes ago, wig said:

 

If more people knew his philosophy as I do, the entire forum would be begging for him.

His college philosophy does not work in the NFL. Also these are grown men playing pro, not kids playing college. College coaches know there is pretty much a whole turnover every year where the pros not so much. Pro coaches deal with a 53 man roster while college coaches deal with 90 to 105 players depending on what class the college falls into.

[wig]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

His college philosophy does not work in the NFL. Also these are grown men playing pro, not kids playing college. College coaches know there is pretty much a whole turnover every year where the pros not so much. Pro coaches deal with a 53 man roster while college coaches deal with 90 to 105 players depending on what class the college falls into.

 

Give me an accurate, quick layout of his philosophy that you don't like. 

[NewColtsFan]

10 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

It's basically the same thing as those stats where it goes "X team is undefeated when *starting runningback* gets Y carries". Yes, they're undefeated because they're running the ball to run out the clock at the end of games. Same scenario here. More runs at the end of games = higher time of possession. 3 straight runs at the end of a game is 120 seconds of TOP which is the difference from #1 in the league and 16th in the league. 

 

BTW, Bill Belichick is also a HC who says that time of possession is overrated.

 

By the way,  overrated is one thing.    Meaningless, which you said in another post,  is quite another.

 

Those two are not the same.

 

[crazycolt1]

43 minutes ago, wig said:

 

Give me an accurate, quick layout of his philosophy that you don't like. 

To simplify it is Kelly wanted to run a college based offense in the NFL. It worked till other defensive coordinators learned how to defend it. From what I gather from current players and past players who played for him he treated them like college players. A head coach does not get rid of talented players because he cant control them like they were college players. Parcells said it best-A coach has to know each player well enough to know what motivates and what makes a player turn away. A coach cant treat every player the same because these are men, not kids. Some players react to being yelled at while some will turn completely off. College players are wanting to be in the NFL so bad they will follow any coach who they think will get them there. Pro players have already accomplished that feat and now follow different agendas. A pro player will follow a coach who covers their back, not stick a knife in it.

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

To simplify it is Kelly wanted to run a college based offense in the NFL. It worked till other defensive coordinators learned how to defend it. From what I gather from current players and past players who played for him he treated them like college players. A head coach does not get rid of talented players because he cant control them like they were college players. Parcells said it best-A coach has to know each player well enough to know what motivates and what makes a player turn away. A coach cant treat every player the same because these are men, not kids. Some players react to being yelled at while some will turn completely off. College players are wanting to be in the NFL so bad they will follow any coach who they think will get them there. Pro players have already accomplished that feat and now follow different agendas. A pro player will follow a coach who covers their back, not stick a knife in it.

Which current and past players?

[LockeDown]

Chip seems like an intelligent guy...unusual in NFL circles.  I've always liked the Bill Walsh, Marv Levy kind of coaches and Chip seems like he could be that.  I admit his GM moves were strange, but Bellichek is strange too.  Always trying something different with his roster, plays, his Oline this year...etc...Maybe given time and the right QB, he might find his groove.  Out of all the meathead coaches out there, he is the only one that seems to have the potential to outfox Bellichek.  Then again, maybe he's stubborn and ends up going back to college.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

12 hours ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

I'd keep Chuck over hiring Chip but that's just me.

Even though Chips IQ in his pinky finger is Higher than pagano`s total IQ?

[Gavin]

19 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

Even though Chips IQ in his pinky finger is Higher than pagano`s total IQ?

He wasn't smart enough to foresee what a semi knowledgeable football fan saw coming(me) from the minute he picked up Murray and dumped McCoy and Jackson(and I don't like either player even though both are extremely talented)....That he signed his own pink slip then. He never had a chance unless he tweaked his system and he didn't, Chips a great innovator and I believe has an eye for talent and will land on his feet and learn from this but you have to be able to adjust your scheme to fit the talent you have and he failed miserably turning a career 4.6 ypc player into a 3.5 player almost single handedly

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Maybe not But his IQ is still way higher than pagano`s.

I heard on Indy radio that people in the Colts building saying that Chuck is in way over his head. And I agree with that.

Why irsay hired him is beyond me. I glanced at his resume awhile back. A losing record at some college I can't remember which. A db coach and then the Ravens promoted him to DC for one season. I believe his unit was about 10th or so, I can't remember. A unit with Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Nagata etc..... I think my dead grandmother could have got them in top 15 lol.

But irsay hired him and now doesn't think he's man enough for the job.

I'm not even sure he is qualified to be a top DC.

 

[CanuckColtsFan]

 Don't try to frighten us with Chip Kelleys ways, LJpalmbeacher. His sad devotion to that college system  has not helped him conjure up a playoff win, or given him clairvoyance enough to pick the best running back on his team

 

[Synthetic]

In a few months you'll be repeating this DO NOT HIRE with all the usual names that come up like Nick Saban and Jon Gruden. 

 

If there's anyone I hope the Colts can get in the future, it's the Jets coach. They need a good defensive minded coach like they had with Dungy. 

[BOTT]

2 hours ago, Gavin said:

He wasn't smart enough to foresee what a semi knowledgeable football fan saw coming(me) from the minute he picked up Murray and dumped McCoy and Jackson(and I don't like either player even though both are extremely talented)....That he signed his own pink slip then. He never had a chance unless he tweaked his system and he didn't, Chips a great innovator and I believe has an eye for talent and will land on his feet and learn from this but you have to be able to adjust your scheme to fit the talent you have and he failed miserably turning a career 4.6 ypc player into a 3.5 player almost single handedly

They wouldn't be any better with McCoy and Jackson on the team

[Gavin]

32 minutes ago, BOTT said:

They wouldn't be any better with McCoy and Jackson on the team

Maybe not but that's hard to believe considering they were 10-6 the last 2 years prior to the trades, Foles was playing well.....He was not playing lights out like he had been his 2nd year as an Eagle but I don't think he was playing horrible but inconsistent(His last year as an Eagle), He had 3 straight 300 yard games and 4 games of 300+ yard games out of 8 games played and on pace for 26 passes if he played a full season (though on pace for 20 picks as well) if those averages held up

 

Enter Bradford and his injury history...Though he has played fairly well this year considering he has missed 2 games to date. Throw in a deal for a great RB in Murray(Not a dynamic one like McCoy I know) but one that don't fit what Kelly was set on doing....thrown in1 pretty good proven wr in Jordan Matthews....and then a mediocre Riley Cooper plus a rookie Agholar...subtract a couple 1000+ yard wr's in Jackson and Maclin  and ya end up with Kelly getting the pink slip so to speak. I never bought into the racist idea that was being spewed about Chip though

[ColtsBlueFL]

7 hours ago, Gavin said:

you have to be able to adjust your scheme to fit the talent you have and he failed miserably turning a career 4.6 ypc player into a 3.5 player almost single handedly

 

I guess we'll see what Pat Shurmur, or the next full time HC can do with Bradford and Murray next year.

 

There are some that say DeMarco Murray will never ever again be close to what he was in his last season at Dallas.  We'll see about that too.

[coltsfeva]

11 hours ago, wig said:

 

Give me an accurate, quick layout of his philosophy that you don't like. 

  One thing I noticed was the Eagles were gassed by the end of the year. A DB said as much last year when they were 9-3 and in position to have a bye, but lost 3 of the last 4 games and missed the playoffs.

 Players this year said everyone was "not on board". 

  The media put the "genius" label on him and it looked like he had something different and explosive initially. Unfortunately for the Eagles, NFL coaches caught on and found ways stop the offense. Even though it was different in terms of pace, it was not overly complicated, according to some analysts.

  They took a poll in Philly yesterday and out of 800 votes, 82% of the fans were happy he was gone.

 No playoff wins, in three years. At least Pagano got the Colts to playoffs and to the AFCC game.  To hire Chip would be a classic example of going from the frying pan into the fire. 

[BOTT]

4 hours ago, Gavin said:

Maybe not but that's hard to believe considering they were 10-6 the last 2 years prior to the trades, Foles was playing well.....He was not playing lights out like he had been his 2nd year as an Eagle but I don't think he was playing horrible but inconsistent(His last year as an Eagle), He had 3 straight 300 yard games and 4 games of 300+ yard games out of 8 games played and on pace for 26 passes if he played a full season (though on pace for 20 picks as well) if those averages held up

 

Enter Bradford and his injury history...Though he has played fairly well this year considering he has missed 2 games to date. Throw in a deal for a great RB in Murray(Not a dynamic one like McCoy I know) but one that don't fit what Kelly was set on doing....thrown in1 pretty good proven wr in Jordan Matthews....and then a mediocre Riley Cooper plus a rookie Agholar...subtract a couple 1000+ yard wr's in Jackson and Maclin  and ya end up with Kelly getting the pink slip so to speak. I never bought into the racist idea that was being spewed about Chip though

i really think most of it has to do with poor QB play.  Foles was ok, but he wasnt a long term answer...so I can get why Kelly rolled the dice on Bradford....although giving up a 2nd was a mistake.

 

Jackson is is an often injured, somewhat overrated self centered player.

 

Maclin isn't worth the kind of money KC threw at him.....Chip was smart to let him walk.

 

Mathews, Aghlor, Cooper and Ertz.....plenty of weapons in the passing game.

 

Chip was thinking long term, and with Kaepernick more than likely hitting the market, Lurie should have seen it through.  If he was willing to give Chip all that power at least give him more than one season.

 

[NFLfan]

48 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

  One thing I noticed was the Eagles were gassed by the end of the year. A DB said as much last year when they were 9-3 and in position to have a bye, but lost 3 of the last 4 games and missed the playoffs.

 Players this year said everyone was "not on board". 

 

I agree. 

From  Lane Johnson, in response to whether  "Chip's practice schedule too grueling?":

 

"I definitely think so. We practice pretty much the same from OTAs until the end of the season. There's not a lot of the guys in the league that do that, continuous. It takes a toll on you, especially me, I expect a lot from myself so I've hit it hard since January, go out with (Jason Peters), bust some butt, and by the end of the year I feel like I'm gonna fall apart."

 

http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadelphia-eagles/lane-johnson-howie-roseman-chip-kelly-power-struggle-hurt-eagles

[harvardphd]

Colin cowherds changed my mind yesterday. He said colts should hire chip in a second. His premise was always hire the smartest people and they will figure it out. Chip is smarter than most coaches coaching today. Also many don't consider the fact that he has most assuredly learned from some of the philly mistakes. He is quoted as saying culture wins over scheme anytime. If he just coached and they replaced grigson and andrew was on board. He would blow away what Pagano has done. His IQ is 100 times higher

[BOTT]

3 hours ago, harvardphd said:

Colin cowherds changed my mind yesterday. He said colts should hire chip in a second. His premise was always hire the smartest people and they will figure it out. Chip is smarter than most coaches coaching today. Also many don't consider the fact that he has most assuredly learned from some of the philly mistakes. He is quoted as saying culture wins over scheme anytime. If he just coached and they replaced grigson and andrew was on board. He would blow away what Pagano has done. His IQ is 100 times higher

Well %, let's go hire Mark Trestman.

 

i kid....I would be on board with hiring Chip, but Cowherd is obnoxious and not very knowledgable. But he is right on occasion.

[BOTT]

GOD HAS SPOKEN

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/31/bill-belichick-disappointed-chip-kelly-didnt-get-more-time/

[Myles]

3 hours ago, harvardphd said:

Colin cowherds changed my mind yesterday. He said colts should hire chip in a second. His premise was always hire the smartest people and they will figure it out. Chip is smarter than most coaches coaching today. Also many don't consider the fact that he has most assuredly learned from some of the philly mistakes. He is quoted as saying culture wins over scheme anytime. If he just coached and they replaced grigson and andrew was on board. He would blow away what Pagano has done. His IQ is 100 times higher

Do yourself a favor and don't believe anything because Cowturd says it.   He is very rarely correct on anything.  He might be taking the correct side in this one, but that will happen from time to time. 

[chrisfarley]

for some on here to say Kelly is better than Pagano, pfffftttttttt.   there's no way to quantify that --- wins and losses are skewed by competition.  Pagano is awful.  Kelly is bad.  Kelly would at least give the Colts playoffs wins deeper into the season. 

[wig]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

Do yourself a favor and don't believe anything because Cowturd says it.   He is very rarely correct on anything.  He might be taking the correct side in this one, but that will happen from time to time. 

 

I thought the same.  Then I looked back, and he's a very good prognosticator.

 

I remember him saying in 2010 or so that the Colts would be lucky to win a game without Peyton.  I was all worked up about it. Then I saw the team without him.  After that, I looked at more assumptions from him and realized he's pretty smart.  

[wig]

I don't want to go on and on, but I truly believe that Chip and Luck are our best chance at a real dynasty. It's no guarantee, but what is.  I firmly believe it's the only available option that could be truly special. 

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, wig said:

 

I thought the same.  Then I looked back, and he's a very good prognosticator.

 

I remember him saying in 2010 or so that the Colts would be lucky to win a game without Peyton.  I was all worked up about it. Then I saw the team without him.  After that, I looked at more assumptions from him and realized he's pretty smart.  

Isn't that stating the obvious.   Most people I know questioned if the Colts could win a game without Peyton.  

 

From what I have found when I listened to him from time to time (I haven't in years now), is that he makes a point every day to bring up stuff that he was correct on and never even mentions what he is wrong about.   Giving the perception that he is usually correct.   And when he is right, it is usually the obvious things. 

In fact, I bet he has had a show where he said something like:

"I told you Manziel was going to be trouble.   I knew it.  I was right". 

[Larry Horseman]

18 minutes ago, Myles said:

Isn't that stating the obvious.   Most people I know questioned if the Colts could win a game without Peyton.  

 

From what I have found when I listened to him from time to time (I haven't in years now), is that he makes a point every day to bring up stuff that he was correct on and never even mentions what he is wrong about.   Giving the perception that he is usually correct.   And when he is right, it is usually the obvious things. 

In fact, I bet he has had a show where he said something like:

"I told you Manziel was going to be trouble.   I knew it.  I was right". 

 

Actually he does a when Colin was right, when Colin was wrong segment each week. He's a polarizing personality and I understand why people don't like him, but he is a smart guy with interesting takes who is willing to take his lumps when needed. 

[Myles]

15 minutes ago, Larry Horseman said:

 

Actually he does a when Colin was right, when Colin was wrong segment each week. He's a polarizing personality and I understand why people don't like him, but he is a smart guy with interesting takes who is willing to take his lumps when needed. 

That must be new.    He didn't used to do that.

I would question if he left stuff off the wrong segment and added to the right segment.  

 

I never thought he was a smart guy.  

[Larry Horseman]

14 minutes ago, Myles said:

That must be new.    He didn't used to do that.

I would question if he left stuff off the wrong segment and added to the right segment.  

 

I never thought he was a smart guy.  

 

To each their own...he's not your flavor...I like and respect him. We can move on. 

[Tom Newell]

I'm 59, live in NY, and I was turned on to the Colts by an older cousin in 1964 because of Johnny Unitas and I've been a fan ever since.  I've seen great Colts teams, the terrible loss to the Jets in Superbowl III, the win in V, good and bad in the 70's, the terrible 80's and early 90's, the great Manning era, and now the current team.  If anyone asked me after the 2011 season if I would like a coach/quarterback combination that would produce three straight 11 win regular seasons followed by a 7 or 8 win season, and do it with the utmost class, I'd sign up for it in a minute.  I love Chuck Pagano and I think Mr. Irsay would be wrong to not bring him back.  When Peyton was drafted the GM built a great offensive line for him, it's time to do that for Andrew.  Bring Back Chuck!!!

[James Harden]

The best fit for Chip is to go back to College. With his intelligence though and learning from his mistakes, I'm sure he will go to the Titains as it makes the most sense. 

[coltsfeva]

7 hours ago, harvardphd said:

Colin cowherds changed my mind yesterday. He said colts should hire chip in a second. His premise was always hire the smartest people and they will figure it out. Chip is smarter than most coaches coaching today. Also many don't consider the fact that he has most assuredly learned from some of the philly mistakes. He is quoted as saying culture wins over scheme anytime. If he just coached and they replaced grigson and andrew was on board. He would blow away what Pagano has done. His IQ is 100 times higher

Chip may think he is smarter than most coaches, but I just don't see that. His clock management was awful. His insistence on running plays at warp speed backfired each year as his players were gassed by December (as previously mentioned).

 

The first game the Eagles played under him was pretty eye-opening (I think they hung a 50 burger on the Redskins). The Redskins could not keep up. But since that game, the "inferior coaches" around the league figured him out and his teams DID NOT WIN A PLAYOFF GAME IN 3 YEARS! 

 

As far as "culture winning over talent" - which was the exact quote, chemistry and unity are important but Chip did not have that in Philly as witnessed by comment players made. There was a disconnect between him and the players. He went as far as getting rid of the talents of Deshawn Jackson, Jermy Macklin and Shady McCoy (who fit his scheme much better than DeMarco Murray).

 

The perception that he is somehow a genius is hyperbole, IMO.

 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

23 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

So we don't want a GM that meddles in our head coaches' business, but we also don't want a coach who wants control? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say we can't have it both ways.

 

Also, Chip has a winning record after 3 years and coached in a division that's typically pretty competitive. I honestly don't think he sucks.

He does suck, players hate him, system not that good, If we are looking at a winning record I believe we have a capable coach now WITH A WINNING RECORD, and a better resume!! What you need is a GM & coach who work well together or is talented enough to do both. Chip IMO isn't!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

4 hours ago, wig said:

I don't want to go on and on, but I truly believe that Chip and Luck are our best chance at a real dynasty. It's no guarantee, but what is.  I firmly believe it's the only available option that could be truly special. 

Please UGGG!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

8 hours ago, harvardphd said:

Colin cowherds changed my mind yesterday. He said colts should hire chip in a second. His premise was always hire the smartest people and they will figure it out. Chip is smarter than most coaches coaching today. Also many don't consider the fact that he has most assuredly learned from some of the philly mistakes. He is quoted as saying culture wins over scheme anytime. If he just coached and they replaced grigson and andrew was on board. He would blow away what Pagano has done. His IQ is 100 times higher

REALLY WOW

[bleevit]

Chip Kelly had nearly lost the entirety of his team by the time he was canned.  Letting go your best players usually doesn't work.  The pace might be good for 19 year olds, but in 20+ game season in the NFL is just an egomaniac stupidity.  Bad NFL coach.  Go back to college.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

3 minutes ago, bleevit said:

Chip Kelly had nearly lost the entirety of his team by the time he was canned.  Letting go your best players usually doesn't work.  The pace might be good for 19 year olds, but in 20+ game season in the NFL is just an egomaniac stupidity.  Bad NFL coach.  Go back to college.

This is correct!