Please Jim - DO NOT HIRE CHIP KELLY!!!!

[ThatOneColtFan]

I'd sure as hell take Chip over that rumored trio.

 

[harvardphd]

AI got some grief over saying Colin cowherds changed my mind on we should hire chip immediately.  I'm fairly intelligent and am not a regular cowherds viewer. But I do listen to a logical argument. ..and he laid out  A convincing argument. I agree that chip's interpersonal skills with players leave alot to be desired. I could say the same about belicheck. That is why you have assistant and position coaches as well as coordinators. They spend much more time with individual players than a head coach. I truly believe chip is aware that he failed in some areas and I smart enough to adapt and change; as evidenced by the fact he stated he no longer wants gm duties. Alot goes into whether  a team wins or loses, but please don't tell me chip can't coach. I realize the nfl is different than college

But chip was dominant at oregon. I mean dominant. I watched many a game where it was 40 to 3 at the half. You don't do that on any level without high football acumen. Again, I know nfl is not college, but many of principles still translate. I believe chips demise was player relations not coaching ability. The guy was still 10-6 first 2 seasons. Without a great QB. I like Pagano and think he is a players coach, but his resume isn't in the same stratosphere as chips. Bruce Arians is the only guy I'd take over chip. I'd love to see bill Polina come back as gm and chip coach an uptempo offense with luck. It is scary how good it could be. Just my opinion.

[ztboiler]

On 12/30/2015 at 2:15 PM, Superman said:

 

They have a weird setup that no one really understands. Mike Brown is the GM, Tobin is VP of Player Personnel, and Lewis is the HC. But Lewis has a significant say in personnel, and all the coaches are closely involved in scouting. In fact, the Bengals have the smallest scouting staff in the league because they use their coaching staff to scout. 

 

Based on what I've read, I think Lewis is now the ultimate decider, with Brown having some oversight. But Tobin sets the table for him.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000367536/article/mike-brown-ceding-bengals-control-to-marvin-lewis

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/2/23/4021186/duke-tobins-big-role-with-the-bengals-front-office-and-the-nfl-draft-nfl-combine

I know there is a time management issue to sort out but I don't understand why coaches wouldn't always be the primary talent scouts and decision maker's when it comes to shaping their teams.  It's not that way in the NFL, but maybe the Bengals are on to something here.

 

I always felt like Dungy picked his own players from those that made the scouting list, in essence.  That is the way it works best from my perspective.

 

How could you trust a coach to evaluate and deploy his current personnel if he isn't any good at evaluating outside talent?

[wig]

21 hours ago, bleevit said:

Chip Kelly had nearly lost the entirety of his team by the time he was canned.  Letting go your best players usually doesn't work.  The pace might be good for 19 year olds, but in 20+ game season in the NFL is just an egomaniac stupidity.  Bad NFL coach.  Go back to college.

 

Bad NFL coaches don't have winning records with subpar QBs.  He made Nick fricking Foles look like a world beater. 

 

Two things I promise if he's hired - Luck would excel.  The running game would drastically improve. 

[jbaron04]

4 hours ago, wig said:

 

Bad NFL coaches don't have winning records with subpar QBs.  He made Nick fricking Foles look like a world beater. 

 

Two things I promise if he's hired - Luck would excel.  The running game would drastically improve. 

U can't be serious,  chip would gut the team and get rid of all the talent 

[BOTT]

52 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

U can't be serious,  chip would gut the team and get rid of all the talent 

Right.  I can't believe Chip got rid of such studs as Todd Herremans, Brandon Boykin, Nick Foles and 34 yr old Evan Mathis.

[Solon]

10 hours ago, harvardphd said:

AI got some grief over saying Colin cowherds changed my mind on we should hire chip immediately.  I'm fairly intelligent and am not a regular cowherds viewer. But I do listen to a logical argument. ..and he laid out  A convincing argument. I agree that chip's interpersonal skills with players leave alot to be desired. I could say the same about belicheck. That is why you have assistant and position coaches as well as coordinators. They spend much more time with individual players than a head coach. I truly believe chip is aware that he failed in some areas and I smart enough to adapt and change; as evidenced by the fact he stated he no longer wants gm duties. Alot goes into whether  a team wins or loses, but please don't tell me chip can't coach. I realize the nfl is different than college

But chip was dominant at oregon. I mean dominant. I watched many a game where it was 40 to 3 at the half. You don't do that on any level without high football acumen. Again, I know nfl is not college, but many of principles still translate. I believe chips demise was player relations not coaching ability. The guy was still 10-6 first 2 seasons. Without a great QB. I like Pagano and think he is a players coach, but his resume isn't in the same stratosphere as chips. Bruce Arians is the only guy I'd take over chip. I'd love to see bill Polina come back as gm and chip coach an uptempo offense with luck. It is scary how good it could be. Just my opinion.

He's as smart as they come. He's just not ready to be an NFL coach just yet. He should take a job as an offensive coordinator somewhere and rebuild himself.

[Gavin]

13 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Right.  I can't believe Chip got rid of such studs as Todd Herremans, Brandon Boykin, Nick Foles and 34 yr old Evan Mathis.

Lesean McCoy.

Desean Jackson

 

Guys essential to his scheme (Though again I am not a fan of either player personally) who he replaced with a work horse rb in Murray but one that did not fit his scheme and Jackson with a rookie wr in Agholor who will likely be producing 1000 yard seasons soon but that sure did not happen this season (Though he only played 57.1% of the teams snaps to date....623).

 

Maybe his long-term idea was to convert to a power running approach given the talent he brought in in Bradford and Murray and Jeffrey Lurie was to impatient to allow things to develop...Would not be the first time an owner was like that...Colts pretty much have that now in my opinion...But in the Eagles case and Kelly I doubt it

[jbaron04]

2 hours ago, BOTT said:

Right.  I can't believe Chip got rid of such studs as Todd Herremans, Brandon Boykin, Nick Foles and 34 yr old Evan Mathis.

Lol wow I knew you would do that, chip would be the worst hire ever 

[BOTT]

9 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

Lol wow I knew you would do that, chip would be the worst hire ever 

just keep repeating jibberish like "he gutted the team"

[BOTT]

12 hours ago, Gavin said:

LetLesean McCoy.

Desean Jackson

 

Guys essential to his scheme (Though again I am not a fan of either player personally) who he replaced with a work horse rb in Murray but one that did not fit his scheme and Jackson with a rookie wr in Agholor who will likely be producing 1000 yard seasons soon but that sure did not happen this season (Though he only played 57.1% of the teams snaps to date....623).

 

Maybe his long-term idea was to convert to a power running approach given the talent he brought in in Bradford and Murray and Jeffrey Lurie was to impatient to allow things to develop...Would not be the first time an owner was like that...Colts pretty much have that now in my opinion...But in the Eagles case and Kelly I doubt it

I'm tiring if this subject lol. Let's just say we disagree....especially the quip about the Colts.

[James Harden]

After reading tons of articles and especially this one : http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/tom-e-curran-todays-nfl-has-no-patience-for-next-bill-belichick

 

I'm all for it if we hire Chip Kelly. Players like Lesean Mccory, Desean Jackson, Foles, and all other primadonna need to know that the Head Coach is the man controlling your job. He is the main dictator. No matter if your the highest paid player or a superstar...you need to be punish if you are doing something wrong. Players don't control the coaches. They just need to follow orders or they won't have a job. Just look at RG3. He boasted about firing Mike Shanahan and now...Who RG3?

 

Pairing Kelly with Luck could make us an offensive juggernaut. Come on down Kelly. You are our winner!

 

[Superman]

On 1/1/2016 at 7:16 AM, ztboiler said:

I know there is a time management issue to sort out but I don't understand why coaches wouldn't always be the primary talent scouts and decision maker's when it comes to shaping their teams.  It's not that way in the NFL, but maybe the Bengals are on to something here.

 

I always felt like Dungy picked his own players from those that made the scouting list, in essence.  That is the way it works best from my perspective.

 

How could you trust a coach to evaluate and deploy his current personnel if he isn't any good at evaluating outside talent?

 

Typically, scouts work pretty much year round. From summer ball through the draft, at least. While coaches are coaching, working on game plans, etc., scouts are going to games and practices, watching film, etc. Same with the Bengals, but they only have four scouts. The Colts have 13.

 

The Bengals have also traditionally been frugal. Not just salaries for three times the scouting staff, but travel, meals, benefits, etc. Probably not saving a fortune, but a slimmer staff means higher profit margins. Mike Brown was giving himself a $1m/year bonus as the GM up until a couple years ago. I don't know if that's related, I'm just thinking out loud, but it definitely saves them money.

 

And maybe some coaches don't have an eye for talent, or don't enjoy scouting. They'd rather be hands-on and work with players than watch practices and film. 

 

Ideally, though, I agree that the coaching staff should be intimately involved with scouting and drafting. I think maybe the Bengals staff is stretched kind of thin, but there's no reason the coaching staff can't get involved during draft season, at least. I know the Colts assistant coaches and Pagano himself does visits and even works players out. I don't think there's anything unique about that.

[ztboiler]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Typically, scouts work pretty much year round. From summer ball through the draft, at least. While coaches are coaching, working on game plans, etc., scouts are going to games and practices, watching film, etc. Same with the Bengals, but they only have four scouts. The Colts have 13.

 

The Bengals have also traditionally been frugal. Not just salaries for three times the scouting staff, but travel, meals, benefits, etc. Probably not saving a fortune, but a slimmer staff means higher profit margins. Mike Brown was giving himself a $1m/year bonus as the GM up until a couple years ago. I don't know if that's related, I'm just thinking out loud, but it definitely saves them money.

 

And maybe some coaches don't have an eye for talent, or don't enjoy scouting. They'd rather be hands-on and work with players than watch practices and film. 

 

Ideally, though, I agree that the coaching staff should be intimately involved with scouting and drafting. I think maybe the Bengals staff is stretched kind of thin, but there's no reason the coaching staff can't get involved during draft season, at least. I know the Colts assistant coaches and Pagano himself does visits and even works players out. I don't think there's anything unique about that.

A deep and talented scouting staff has no diminished role - you have to turn over every rock - and my ideal talent program is still scout driven by a GM with a long term vision.  

 

I simply don't see how coaches can teach effectively unless they are good at scouting their own players.  It follows therefore that you can't be very good at scouting your own unless you are also good at evaluating others.  

 

Great coaches have an eye for talent.  Pagano's staff has certainly been actively involved with prospects and they may be great at it in a different collaboration....but the scouting failures of Werner and Richardson should fall just as squarely on coaches as they do the GM in the kind of healthy collaboration I'd be looking for if I'm Irsay. 

 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

A deep and talented scouting staff has no diminished role - you have to turn over every rock - and my ideal talent program is still scout driven by a GM with a long term vision.  

 

I simply don't see how coaches can teach effectively unless they are good at scouting their own players.  It follows therefore that you can't be very good at scouting your own unless you are also good at evaluating others.  

 

Great coaches have an eye for talent.  Pagano's staff has certainly been actively involved with prospects and they may be great at it in a different collaboration....but the scouting failures of Werner and Richardson should fall just as squarely on coaches as they do the GM in the kind of healthy collaboration I'd be looking for if I'm Irsay. 

 

 

I agree with your overall point. I disagree with the bolded, as a rule. A good coach doesn't need to be a good scout anymore than a good scout needs to be a good coach. Identifying a player's potential is different from helping a player to reach that potential. Sure, there's crossover, but the two aren't really the same thing.

 

Specific to the Colts, I do believe that the coaching staff has been involved in scouting and decision making. That's part of the reason I think some of the Grigson/Pagano beef is a little trumped up. I think Pagano was just as involved in drafting Werner as anyone else was, for instance, so it's not like Grigson just stuck him with this terrible player against his wishes. Can't prove any of that, it's just the impression I have of the situation.

[ztboiler]

36 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I agree with your overall point. I disagree with the bolded, as a rule. A good coach doesn't need to be a good scout anymore than a good scout needs to be a good coach. Identifying a player's potential is different from helping a player to reach that potential. Sure, there's crossover, but the two aren't really the same thing.

 

Specific to the Colts, I do believe that the coaching staff has been involved in scouting and decision making. That's part of the reason I think some of the Grigson/Pagano beef is a little trumped up. I think Pagano was just as involved in drafting Werner as anyone else was, for instance, so it's not like Grigson just stuck him with this terrible player against his wishes. Can't prove any of that, it's just the impression I have of the situation.

I'm not referencing a scout's eye for raw talent I.D. sifted from the masses, that's a honed skill by role and repetition.  I'm referencing a coaches ability to identify performance delta among existing/prospective players, translate attributes into their system for prospects, and project future performance from their coaching investment.  Better coaches are better at this - they see schemes and talent interwoven in 3D.  Most coaches can only see in 2D.

[TrueColt!]

Pagano is better than Kelly. If Irsay was to hire Chip, I'm done with this team. That would mean that we officially waved the white flag for years to come. It would be the dumbest decision ever. No way he falls for that Chip Kelly nonsense. 

[coltsfeva]

8 hours ago, TrueColt! said:

Pagano is better than Kelly. If Irsay was to hire Chip, I'm done with this team. That would mean that we officially waved the white flag for years to come. It would be the dumbest decision ever. No way he falls for that Chip Kelly nonsense. 

Ageed:

Again, no playoff wins in three years.

Run his players into the ground at warp speed, and they were spent by the end of the year.

Getting rid of players that fit his scheme for those that didn't.

Some genius....