scheme or talent level

[OLD FAN MAN]

what is wrong with the colts? scheme or poor talent level? do some spots have talent but poor scheme? do some spots have good scheme but poor talent? is the core talent on defense and offense good enough that a few play makers could fix? does our whole scheme need changed?

[VaAllDay757]

It's majority the scheme especially on defense we don't blitz enough and the secondary is ok at best with vontae as the best corner and mike adams being our best safety but there are a few poor talented players out there but it is what it is

[deedub75]

The scheme doesn't match low level of talent on the team. 

[coltsfeva]

I think it's a combination. For instance, the Colts were down by 3 with over 3 minutes left and the ball at midfield. Why did they abandon the run?

A lot comes back to the trenches....improve the O-line, get Luck back and this offense will improve dramatically. Improve the pass rush and it will help the secondary

[Defjamz26]

Both. Poor talent is the bigger issue here though. Sometimes it's not even that the talent is bad, it's that we lack playmakers.

[Rally5]

9 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

It's majority the scheme especially on defense we don't blitz enough and the secondary is ok at best with vontae as the best corner and mike adams being our best safety but there are a few poor talented players out there but it is what it is

We are one of the top 5 blitzing teams in the league. Just FYI, I think our number is 37% of the time we blitz which is a lot.

[will426]

We should run zone blocking in my opinion..need a new dc who plays to our strength as well idk how often manusky decides to go

in zone when we clearly aren't a zone defense 

[Mr.Debonair]

8 hours ago, deedub75 said:

The scheme doesn't match low level of talent on the team. 

Bingo

[HungarianColtsFan]

9 hours ago, get an 0-line said:

what is wrong with the colts? scheme or poor talent level? do some spots have talent but poor scheme? do some spots have good scheme but poor talent? is the core talent on defense and offense good enough that a few play makers could fix? does our whole scheme need changed?

 

In my opinion both. At some part the team lacks talent, and scheme isn't the best. Just my 2 cents...

[Rally5]

9 hours ago, get an 0-line said:

what is wrong with the colts? scheme or poor talent level? do some spots have talent but poor scheme? do some spots have good scheme but poor talent? is the core talent on defense and offense good enough that a few play makers could fix? does our whole scheme need changed?

Here's part of what I think.  Our offense can't dictate terms to the defense.  A great offense can even be predictable if it executes so well that it still can't be stopped even when you know what's coming.  For at least two years our offense has been lost.  It's also hard to dictate terms when your Oline gets trucked.  We haven't had a professional grade Center since Saturday left and he's the "Captain" of the Oline.  So, we have to shore up the Oline, commit to that and then simplify the offense such that we execute on an extraordinary level.  The offense has put the defense in impossible situations all year, I actually think we might have a decent D if it wasn't on the field all the time and given short fields to defend.  

[theanarchist]

39 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

I think it's a combination. For instance, the Colts were down by 3 with over 3 minutes left and the ball at midfield. Why did they abandon the run?

A lot comes back to the trenches....improve the O-line, get Luck back and this offense will improve dramatically. Improve the pass rush and it will help the secondary

Agree, combination of things. 1) the offensive line has to get better 2) the team has had a terrible time with injuries this year 3) lack of pass rush has killed this team all year

 

Moving on into next season and beyond(cuz yes, it is going to take more than one season to fix this team).

 

1) The talent level on the offensive line has to get better. The team needs an offensive line that not only can pass protect but can open some holes in the run game. Its been way too long(edgerrin James)since we have had a legit run threat.

2) we need a young talented RB of the future.

3) We need a legit pass rush threat. Someone at Rush LB that the other team fears

 

 

 

[ProblChld32]

combination of both for sure, the Talent is their. Offensively i disliked the fact that we moved to a Power Run offense i preferred the style of Offense Arians ran. it was fun to watch and effective. 

 

Defensively i think scheme wise we are ok, we just dont have all the necessary talent for it. For instance in a 3-4 defense you need a box safety, neither Adams or Lowery are box safety's. now we just started to use Geathers who fits the build of a box safety. We dont have the necessary Edge rushers and the Interior LBS are smaller. 

[aReggie7]

Talent is lacking on defense for sure. It has been said before but the Colts have (outside of Davis) average at best all across the defense. This team desperately needs an elite player on defense and someone who can rush the passer.

 

I would say scheme/coaching is a bigger issue on offense. The offensive line does need more talent especially at center. However, I think most of the problems with the offense are with the scheme/coaching.

 

Overall the Colts want to play big and physical on both sides of the ball. (Pittsburgh, Baltimore come to mind) The problem is that the talent is harder to find. It's easier to overcome lesser talent in other schemes but not this physical, man-to-man style the Colts desire.

[Old Colt]

12 hours ago, get an 0-line said:

what is wrong with the colts? scheme or poor talent level? do some spots have talent but poor scheme? do some spots have good scheme but poor talent? is the core talent on defense and offense good enough that a few play makers could fix? does our whole scheme need changed?

YES!   

[Coffeedrinker]

Why does it have to be an either or thing?  Like Coltsfeva stated, it's a combination of both.  There is a deficiency at some key areas.  The Colts cannot generate a rush without blitzing, Manusky's D is predicated on getting pressure from 4 with the occasional 5th person to overload the a side.

 

No running back.  I like Gore a lot and I think he's been a good runner for the Colts but they have no one behind him.  Gore is a 12-16 carry a game RB, they need someone else to be able to handle 8-10 carries and they don't have that.

 

No center, it's been discussed on a lot on here but the number of times Harrison leaves a gaping hole in the middle for a LB to run through untouched is pathetic.

 

So that is the personnel side.

 

On the scheme side the issue is that manusky cannot adjust his scheme based on the personnel available, there is only so much you can do but when your two pass rushers are not able to generate pressure then you either go with a 4 man front or go with a 2 man front and bring in another pass rusher.  You don't just keep sending them out there to do the same thing.

 

On offense, I think Chud's hands are tied about bit more because of no 2nd RB and no QB that can throw accurately for more than 25 yards.  But I do think Chud struggles to move guys around and try to exploit mismatches.

[BOTT]

2 hours ago, Rally5 said:

Here's part of what I think.  Our offense can't dictate terms to the defense.  A great offense can even be predictable if it executes so well that it still can't be stopped even when you know what's coming.  For at least two years our offense has been lost.  It's also hard to dictate terms when your Oline gets trucked.  We haven't had a professional grade Center since Saturday left and he's the "Captain" of the Oline.  So, we have to shore up the Oline, commit to that and then simplify the offense such that we execute on an extraordinary level.  The offense has put the defense in impossible situations all year, I actually think we might have a decent D if it wasn't on the field all the time and given short fields to defend.  

I didn't find Arians' offense fun to watch.  Not efficient and detrimental to your quarterback's health.

[jameszeigler834]

17 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Why does it have to be an either or thing?  Like Coltsfeva stated, it's a combination of both.  There is a deficiency at some key areas.  The Colts cannot generate a rush without blitzing, Manusky's D is predicated on getting pressure from 4 with the occasional 5th person to overload the a side.

 

No running back.  I like Gore a lot and I think he's been a good runner for the Colts but they have no one behind him.  Gore is a 12-16 carry a game RB, they need someone else to be able to handle 8-10 carries and they don't have that.

 

No center, it's been discussed on a lot on here but the number of times Harrison leaves a gaping hole in the middle for a LB to run through untouched is pathetic.

 

So that is the personnel side.

 

On the scheme side the issue is that manusky cannot adjust his scheme based on the personnel available, there is only so much you can do but when your two pass rushers are not able to generate pressure then you either go with a 4 man front or go with a 2 man front and bring in another pass rusher.  You don't just keep sending them out there to do the same thing.

 

On offense, I think Chud's hands are tied about bit more because of no 2nd RB and no QB that can throw accurately for more than 25 yards.  But I do think Chud struggles to move guys around and try to exploit mismatches.

Agreed.

[jameszeigler834]

30 minutes ago, adamr said:

Talent is lacking on defense for sure. It has been said before but the Colts have (outside of Davis) average at best all across the defense. This team desperately needs an elite player on defense and someone who can rush the passer.

 

I would say scheme/coaching is a bigger issue on offense. The offensive line does need more talent especially at center. However, I think most of the problems with the offense are with the scheme/coaching.

 

Overall the Colts want to play big and physical on both sides of the ball. (Pittsburgh, Baltimore come to mind) The problem is that the talent is harder to find. It's easier to overcome lesser talent in other schemes but not this physical, man-to-man style the Colts desire.

I think its both our QB not having a great year has to do with half himself and half the people around him we need playmakers at key positions mainly LB/OLB.

[VaAllDay757]

23 hours ago, Rally5 said:

We are one of the top 5 blitzing teams in the league. Just FYI, I think our number is 37% of the time we blitz which is a lot.

Well the blitzes we run are pretty much vanilla we need better disguises and exotic blitzes

[Gavin]

The same thing it was 4 years ago......Both

[TheRustonRifle#7]

I agree with those who say both are to blame....

[OLD FAN MAN]

imo elite players will excel in any scheme, we just don't have enough elite players

 

[Defjamz26]

I'd also like to point out that our scheme for our secondary is terrible IMO. We have a bunch of coverage safeties and no one who can play in the box. Geathers just started showing he can do that in the future.

 

Plus we always get eaten up in the middle of the field because he safeties are never moved around properly.

 

We're also one dimensional with our slot coverage. It's always Butler inside. They never try and do anything different like putting a safety in the slot, or maybe if you need to double cover someone move Butler to the outside as an extra CB or "FS".

[JH8788]

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2015 at 6:42 AM, Rally5 said:

Here's part of what I think.  Our offense can't dictate terms to the defense.  A great offense can even be predictable if it executes so well that it still can't be stopped even when you know what's coming.  For at least two years our offense has been lost.  It's also hard to dictate terms when your Oline gets trucked.  We haven't had a professional grade Center since Saturday left and he's the "Captain" of the Oline.  So, we have to shore up the Oline, commit to that and then simplify the offense such that we execute on an extraordinary level.  The offense has put the defense in impossible situations all year, I actually think we might have a decent D if it wasn't on the field all the time and given short fields to defend.  

You're 1000% on the money with us not replacing Saturday & how the D has been put in some horrific spots all year when coming into the season, the general consensus was they would be the weak link & they've held their own for the most part despite the guys we've lost on that side of the ball. We also had major trouble replacing Ryan Lilja & Jake Scott at the guard spots. I feel that we've cleared up 1 of the spots with Mewhort, but IMO the jury is still out on Thornton.

 

Overall I see a lot of talent on this roster, but there's key spots we have to address in the offseason with CB & pass rush as the main spots along with the O Line. We also need to get a RB with Frank up there in age. I may catch heat for this & that's fine, but I believe we should retain Chuck & Chud next season so we can see his offense with a healthy Andrew on the field I believe we'll be back with a vengeance.