I don't think Our O-Line is as bad as everyone says

[Freeupfreeney]

This unit definitely isn't "Elite", Luck has been hit 54 times last in the league. The second most is the Jets at 39. But, we have only allowed 2 sacks, tied for 3rd in the league.

 

What an enigma???

 

Why don't I blame the O-line. Because game 1 we were exposed. We came into this season overly confident in our offense ability to dominate in the air...it didn't happen. Not a lot of slants, outs or curls. There are a lot of lengthy drawn out plays, lots of streaks and post. Because Our O-line isn't elite, we cannot depend on the talent level at receiver to execute those plays.

 

Game 1 we finished the first half with 20 passes and like only 3 rushes.

 

We are beating ourselves with the bad play calling, and our O-coordinator, Luck and head coach appear to be missing this fact. The secondaries we faced week 1 and week 2 are good enough to slow us down, we did not adapt, nobody was open, the line couldn't hold up against the constant blitzing that long, therefore they looked weak.

 

I think, considering the talent of the front 7 they faced in the first 2 weeks, they did surprisingly well. If we ran more, and dunked to our TE more and targeted shorter throws and instead of trying to be the 07 colts, Luck would not have been hit nearly as much.

 

What do you think?

[will426]

This unit definitely isn't "Elite", Luck has been hit 54 times last in the league. The second most is the Jets at 39. But, we have only allowed 2 sacks, tied for 3rd in the league.

What an enigma???

Why don't I blame the O-line. Because game 1 we were exposed. We came into this season overly confident in our offense ability to dominate in the air...it didn't happen. Not a lot of slants, outs or curls. There are a lot of lengthy drawn out plays, lots of streaks and post. Because Our O-line isn't elite, we cannot depend on the talent level at receiver to execute those plays.

Game 1 we finished the first half with 20 passes and like only 3 rushes.

We are beating ourselves with the bad play calling, and our O-coordinator, Luck and head coach appear to be missing this fact. The secondaries we faced week 1 and week 2 are good enough to slow us down, we did not adapt, nobody was open, the line couldn't hold up against the constant blitzing that long, therefore they looked weak.

I think, considering the talent of the front 7 they faced in the first 2 weeks, they did surprisingly well. If we ran more, and dunked to our TE more and targeted shorter throws and instead of trying to be the 07 colts, Luck would not have been hit nearly as much.

What do you think?

you're right it's the play calling and the non adjustments..but you have to look at luck take the sack or throw it out of bounds he launches it forward which has been something he's always done

[Freeupfreeney]

you're right it's the play calling and the non adjustments..but you have to look at luck take the sack or throw it out of bounds he launches it forward which has been something he's always done

Luck use to be very disciplined about make bad throws. He would usually eat that sack. Not this year tough. The online is serviceable, but they obviously aren't good enough to handle blitzing from 2 of the top 5 defenses on plays that take 4 to 5 seconds to develop. Play call adjustments need to be made immediately, because our front seven is doing fantastic and they don't need to loose confidence because we aren't scoring.

[CR91]

what I dont understand is why when you know youre gonna get blitzed, we're not dailing up plays to beat it like three step slants, quick outs, draw plays, screens. instead you want luck to take a 7 step drop and go deep. how the heck does that make sense

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Luck use to be very disciplined about make bad throws. He would usually eat that sack. Not this year tough. The online is serviceable, but they obviously aren't good enough to handle blitzing from 2 of the top 5 defenses on plays that take 4 to 5 seconds to develop. Play call adjustments need to be made immediately, because our front seven is doing fantastic and they don't need to loose confidence because we aren't scoring.

 

Why they diverted from the 2 TE jumbo set that was working so well vs the Jets, I'll never know. They could've ran that set all day and driven up and down the field with hardly any issues. The run was working, play action was working, receivers were open, the pocket was solid, etc. Then they get into the red zone and decide to try and "trick" the defense with a couple of exotic formations, the drive stalls, Vinatieri misses a FG, air goes out of the balloon. 

[CoachSmok3]

 

 

I think, considering the talent of the front 7 they faced in the first 2 weeks, they did surprisingly well. If we ran more, and dunked to our TE more and targeted shorter throws and instead of trying to be the 07 colts, Luck would not have been hit nearly as much.

 

What do you think?

 

I agree entirely with the above bolded statement. Not only do i think they did well, but also improved from week 1 to week 2...and i believe they will continue to improve with more time next to one another on game day.

 

are there spots that can be improved? yes, but so is every position on every team every year...stagnation leads to failure...even mainstays for teams at positions must improve every year, in one aspect or another. If they do not, they normally do not stay as that teams mainstay. 

 

i am not looking to further a debate on responsibilities for the current display from the offense, nor am i look to express anything other than an agreement with the OP- 

"I don't think Our O-Line is as bad as everyone says"

[Superman]

This unit definitely isn't "Elite", Luck has been hit 54 times last in the league. 

 

I don't know what NFL.com is doing, but their QB Hits stat is stupidly inaccurate. Luck hasn't been hit 54 times. 

[Dustin]

The tackles are good. Interior is horrendous.

[Superman]

On topic, plenty of teams have offensive line issues. Not excusing the personnel people for not doing more to improve the offensive line, but the much bigger issue right now is the gameplanning. There's a way to make up for questionable OL play, and we're pretty much declining to use any of those tactics and concepts with any regularity, when those tactics and concepts should be staples of our offense. 

 

The other issue is that when the opportunities have been there to burn the blitz, the QB has been inaccurate or has missed opportunities. I'm not too worried about that, as I expect Luck to snap out of it quickly. I wish I had as much confidence in the coaching staff to make what I think are common sense adjustments to the offense. We'll see how the next three weeks go...

[COLTS449]

Yeah Pep is terrible and he doesn't make adjustments during the game, but our interior O-Line is pretty bad. Out Tackles are fine, but we desperately need an upgrade over Lance Louis. And that upgrade may just be Joe Reitz. I've always liked Reitz better at guard honestly. And he never was that good at RT until the playoffs last year. To me, IMO, he's a guard, and I think he could be a very good guard if he's out there starting every game. But as for the play calling. Yes we really need to mix things up a bit with some short passes, screen passes, and we really need to get Fleener and Allen more involved. 

[CoachSmok3]

I don't know what NFL.com is doing, but their QB Hits stat is stupidly inaccurate. Luck hasn't been hit 54 times. 

 

I would like to know, as I am ignorant to some of these more specific statistics...

 

when calculating the number of hits a QB has taken...do the following "hits taken" count towards this statistic:

 

1) moving out side the pocket

2) scrambling up field

3) hit following release of football

4) if the QB decides to move up field to block/ follow the play

5) if the QB rolls out after a hand off to fake a bootleg pass

 

-or is it solely on drop backs in the pocket?

 

Knowing these answers would help me to put the stats of "QB hits" in more perspective.

 

Thank you for anyone whom can offer me a little more insight 

[Smurphy1]

On topic, plenty of teams have offensive line issues. Not excusing the personnel people for not doing more to improve the offensive line, but the much bigger issue right now is the gameplanning. There's a way to make up for questionable OL play, and we're pretty much declining to use any of those tactics and concepts with any regularity, when those tactics and concepts should be staples of our offense. 

 

The other issue is that when the opportunities have been there to burn the blitz, the QB has been inaccurate or has missed opportunities. I'm not too worried about that, as I expect Luck to snap out of it quickly. I wish I had as much confidence in the coaching staff to make what I think are common sense adjustments to the offense. We'll see how the next three weeks go...

 

People shouldn't be talking about Luck regressing people should be talking about Pep regressing. This brings up a better question why are you trying to develop an offensive coordinator when trying to make a superbowl run?

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

What do I think? Re-read the last 10 words in your first sentence.

[CoachSmok3]

 

 

The other issue is that when the opportunities have been there to burn the blitz, the QB has been inaccurate or has missed opportunities.

 

If you would be willing to follow me down the rabbit hole...imagine if on some of those throws there was a little less air, a little less "floating"....and the ball landed in front of the WR, in stride...

 

would the "game planning" debate be relevant? or would we be singing the praises of the "Greatest Shoe on Turf"? lol...its fun to day dream

[chad72]

I agree that our OL, while not elite, is not as bad as it has been made to look with the horrendous play calling thus leading to Luck holding the ball longer than necessary. Luck can help the OL out as well but it starts with the OC and QB but the OL will get better. However, I would like the interior to have a tweak or two.

[theanarchist]

I don't know what NFL.com is doing, but their QB Hits stat is stupidly inaccurate. Luck hasn't been hit 54 times. 

I'm not going to disagree with your assertion but he's been hit plenty. What's the reason? OL play? holding the ball too long? Play calling?

[Superman]

I would like to know, as I am ignorant to some of these more specific statistics...

 

when calculating the number of hits a QB has taken...do the following "hits taken" count towards this statistic:

 

1) moving out side the pocket

2) scrambling up field

3) hit following release of football

4) if the QB decides to move up field to block/ follow the play

5) if the QB rolls out after a hand off to fake a bootleg pass

 

-or is it solely on drop backs in the pocket?

 

Knowing these answers would help me to put the stats of "QB hits" in more perspective.

 

Thank you for anyone whom can offer me a little more insight 

 

I don't know. It would depend on who is recording the stat. Me personally, I would only report hits that were taken in his role as a passer. If he scrambles and gets tackled downfield, that's not really an indication of how well he was (or wasn't) protected.

 

But even if you count all the instances of noteworthy physical contact with a defender through two games, I don't think it would add up to 54 hits.

[Superman]

I'm not going to disagree with your assertion but he's been hit plenty. What's the reason? OL play? holding the ball too long? Play calling?

 

Yes.

[theanarchist]

This unit definitely isn't "Elite", Luck has been hit 54 times last in the league. The second most is the Jets at 39. But, we have only allowed 2 sacks, tied for 3rd in the league.

 

What an enigma???

 

Why don't I blame the O-line. Because game 1 we were exposed. We came into this season overly confident in our offense ability to dominate in the air...it didn't happen. Not a lot of slants, outs or curls. There are a lot of lengthy drawn out plays, lots of streaks and post. Because Our O-line isn't elite, we cannot depend on the talent level at receiver to execute those plays.

 

Game 1 we finished the first half with 20 passes and like only 3 rushes.

 

We are beating ourselves with the bad play calling, and our O-coordinator, Luck and head coach appear to be missing this fact. The secondaries we faced week 1 and week 2 are good enough to slow us down, we did not adapt, nobody was open, the line couldn't hold up against the constant blitzing that long, therefore they looked weak.

 

I think, considering the talent of the front 7 they faced in the first 2 weeks, they did surprisingly well. If we ran more, and dunked to our TE more and targeted shorter throws and instead of trying to be the 07 colts, Luck would not have been hit nearly as much.

 

What do you think?

"not elite", all I can tell you is this: I open up espn's top story for the game matchup with the Titans and the headline is "Colts vs Titans which offensive line is worse?"

[Johnny Bui]

From reading this thread, what I'm hearing is, Pep Hamilton is an awful.  What else is new?

[theanarchist]

I don't know. It would depend on who is recording the stat. Me personally, I would only report hits that were taken in his role as a passer. If he scrambles and gets tackled downfield, that's not really an indication of how well he was (or wasn't) protected.

 

But even if you count all the instances of noteworthy physical contact with a defender through two games, I don't think it would add up to 54 hits.

I said this before in another post, there a lots of times where I see Luck let the ball go and a defender hits him full speed and just absolutley drills him. 54 total hits? IDK, but if he keeps getting hit like he has so far this year, chances are we wont be complaining about his throws because itll be Hasselbeck getting drilled from the pocket.

[Superman]

People shouldn't be talking about Luck regressing people should be talking about Pep regressing. This brings up a better question why are you trying to develop an offensive coordinator when trying to make a superbowl run?

 

In the first game, it was hard to tell where Pep ended and Luck began. I'm not sure that can be put totally on Pep, and I sort of gave him a pass because Luck was rusty. The Jets game was a different story.

 

To address your question, I don't think anyone expected to be developing Pep Hamilton. He has been better in the past than in these first two games. He has plenty of experience, college and pros. He just has blinders on for some reason. If he can't snap out of it, quickly, I'm fine with moving on from him.

[Superman]

If you would be willing to follow me down the rabbit hole...imagine if on some of those throws there was a little less air, a little less "floating"....and the ball landed in front of the WR, in stride...

 

would the "game planning" debate be relevant? or would we be singing the praises of the "Greatest Shoe on Turf"? lol...its fun to day dream

 

If some of those big plays we've left on the field had connected, Luck wouldn't have been blitzed 46% of his dropbacks so far. Everything would change. When you beat the blitz, the blitzing stops.

 

But my gripe is more with the times when those big plays weren't open, and neither was anything else. It's about the max protect with three vertical routes, when the middle of the field is wide open (3rd and 2 in the first quarter Monday, when we really should have been running it, but we throw a fade to Hilton, who is covered by the one and only Darrelle Revis...), etc. 

 

I certainly don't mean to suggest that there's only one problem right now. There are multiple problems, definitely.

[CoachSmok3]

"not elite", all I can tell you is this: I open up espn's top story for the game matchup with the Titans and the headline is "Colts vs Titans which offensive line is worse?"

 

 

I will always love my Colts lol....but funny is funny

[ColtsfaninTexas]

This unit definitely isn't "Elite", Luck has been hit 54 times last in the league. The second most is the Jets at 39. But, we have only allowed 2 sacks, tied for 3rd in the league.

 

What an enigma???

 

Why don't I blame the O-line. Because game 1 we were exposed. We came into this season overly confident in our offense ability to dominate in the air...it didn't happen. Not a lot of slants, outs or curls. There are a lot of lengthy drawn out plays, lots of streaks and post. Because Our O-line isn't elite, we cannot depend on the talent level at receiver to execute those plays.

 

Game 1 we finished the first half with 20 passes and like only 3 rushes.

 

We are beating ourselves with the bad play calling, and our O-coordinator, Luck and head coach appear to be missing this fact. The secondaries we faced week 1 and week 2 are good enough to slow us down, we did not adapt, nobody was open, the line couldn't hold up against the constant blitzing that long, therefore they looked weak.

 

I think, considering the talent of the front 7 they faced in the first 2 weeks, they did surprisingly well. If we ran more, and dunked to our TE more and targeted shorter throws and instead of trying to be the 07 colts, Luck would not have been hit nearly as much.

 

What do you think?

Pretty much summed it up. If I were Andrew Luck, I'd just start tossing balls out of bounds where I'm making throws 20 yards or more into double coverage or where receivers have failed to create any separation to prove a point. There were a couple times last year where he seemed obviously frustrated with playcalling..

[CoachSmok3]

If some of those big plays we've left on the field had connected, Luck wouldn't have been blitzed 46% of his dropbacks so far. Everything would change. When you beat the blitz, the blitzing stops.

 

But my gripe is more with the times when those big plays weren't open, and neither was anything else. It's about the max protect with three vertical routes, when the middle of the field is wide open (3rd and 2 in the first quarter Monday, when we really should have been running it, but we throw a fade to Hilton, who is covered by the one and only Darrelle Revis...), etc. 

 

I certainly don't mean to suggest that there's only one problem right now. There are multiple problems, definitely.

 

 

oh yeah man. Im right there with everything you said.... all I was getting at in my fit of day dreaming was what you said (bold) above... if some plays had connected...everything would have changed, and we would all be having similar, but still very different debates at this time.

 

3rd and 2 in the first...ty vs revis...im running too like you said lol

[a06cc]

The offense isn't playing good at all. The offensive line is bad. Free rushers left and right got to Luck Monday. Penalties have killed drives for us. So have dropped passes. The offensive as a whole needs to play better. Our defense this year actually doesn't look to bad. They're getting off of blocks and making plays. Offense needs to step up big. Luck has to hold on to the ball and wait for guys to get open so I'm blaming that on play calling. On a blitz that route needs to be short, that's how you make a team pay. Not a long deep ball.

[Superman]

oh yeah man. Im right there with everything you said.... all I was getting at in my fit of day dreaming was what you said (bold) above... if some plays had connected...everything would have changed, and we would all be having similar, but still very different debates at this time.

 

3rd and 2 in the first...ty vs revis...im running too like you said lol

 

We had gashed them several times on that drive already, and then play action for a big gain to Moncrief across the middle (missed a TD to Allen, but that's another story). I don't understand why we're in the gun on that play, and why we're throwing a fade to the smallest receiver with the toughest matchup, with no one going across the middle of the field (AJ was open on a stop route, by the way). 

 

:: sighs prayerfully ::

[CoachSmok3]

We had gashed them several times on that drive already, and then play action for a big gain to Moncrief across the middle (missed a TD to Allen, but that's another story). I don't understand why we're in the gun on that play, and why we're throwing a fade to the smallest receiver with the toughest matchup, with no one going across the middle of the field (AJ was open on a stop route, by the way). 

 

:: sighs prayerfully ::

 

 

I try not to point fingers at plays called...but on this one I have too... there comes a time when trying to be cute and do the "opposite" of whats "expected" is NOT a good idea. With an investment like Gore and the abilities we DO HAVE to move the ball on the ground...

 

idk, to me its like this....

 

I really want some good fish to eat....most think im going to go to Bone Fish Grill? , jokes on them...ima go to mcdonalds for a mcfish!!!! 

 

sometimes whats "expected" is expected, because it is whats "best" and what "works"...

[ProblChld32]

This unit definitely isn't "Elite", Luck has been hit 54 times last in the league. The second most is the Jets at 39. But, we have only allowed 2 sacks, tied for 3rd in the league.

 

What an enigma???

 

Why don't I blame the O-line. Because game 1 we were exposed. We came into this season overly confident in our offense ability to dominate in the air...it didn't happen. Not a lot of slants, outs or curls. There are a lot of lengthy drawn out plays, lots of streaks and post. Because Our O-line isn't elite, we cannot depend on the talent level at receiver to execute those plays.

 

Game 1 we finished the first half with 20 passes and like only 3 rushes.

 

We are beating ourselves with the bad play calling, and our O-coordinator, Luck and head coach appear to be missing this fact. The secondaries we faced week 1 and week 2 are good enough to slow us down, we did not adapt, nobody was open, the line couldn't hold up against the constant blitzing that long, therefore they looked weak.

 

I think, considering the talent of the front 7 they faced in the first 2 weeks, they did surprisingly well. If we ran more, and dunked to our TE more and targeted shorter throws and instead of trying to be the 07 colts, Luck would not have been hit nearly as much.

 

What do you think?

 

You have to take into consideration the fact that Luck is one of the most mobile QB's in the league that certainly helps him out with avoiding sacks and pressure. 

[Jonathan24]

BUT he is still being HIT that means pressure which means the line is not doing good.

[MB-ColtsFan]

BUT he is still being HIT that means pressure which means the line is not doing good.

You have to take a look at the bigger picture.  Robinson completely missed the blitz pickup on one of those hits.

Luck definitely holds onto the ball too long - whether from

1) original play calling (Pep), or

2) not checking down (Luck not calling the correct audible at the line), or

3) from receivers not getting open

 

I thought the OLine did a credible job Monday.  Certainly well enough for Luck to get rid of the ball without getting

hit so often.  The one thing I did notice was that the pocket collapsed around him too often.  That, to me, showed

a good push from the inner part of the line.  There was nowhere for him to scramble or roll out.  That happened a

few many times for my liking.  Most time, however, I felt he had an escape route had he chosen to take it when he

felt the pressure in the pocket.

 

Bottom line here is you can't just look at the number of hits and say "the OLine is terrible".

[Jonathan24]

You have to take a look at the bigger picture.  Robinson completely missed the blitz pickup on one of those hits.

Luck definitely holds onto the ball too long - whether from

1) original play calling (Pep), or

2) not checking down (Luck not calling the correct audible at the line), or

3) from receivers not getting open

 

I thought the OLine did a credible job Monday.  Certainly well enough for Luck to get rid of the ball without getting

hit so often.  The one thing I did notice was that the pocket collapsed around him too often.  That, to me, showed

a good push from the inner part of the line.  There was nowhere for him to scramble or roll out.  That happened a

few many times for my liking.  Most time, however, I felt he had an escape route had he chosen to take it when he

felt the pressure in the pocket.

 

Bottom line here is you can't just look at the number of hits and say "the OLine is terrible".

 

 

Alot of that has to do with not being able to trust his line.  I think our bookends are fine but our interior needs help.

[Smurphy1]

In the first game, it was hard to tell where Pep ended and Luck began. I'm not sure that can be put totally on Pep, and I sort of gave him a pass because Luck was rusty. The Jets game was a different story.

 

To address your question, I don't think anyone expected to be developing Pep Hamilton. He has been better in the past than in these first two games. He has plenty of experience, college and pros. He just has blinders on for some reason. If he can't snap out of it, quickly, I'm fine with moving on from him.

 

The blinders you talk about are completely inexcusable. How do you even get to the college level and not know this stuff? If I get the time in the next couple weeks I'll go back to some of those games last year and look at our play calling then for a comparison. Also from what I've read he didn't have a whole lot of play calling experience and none in the NFL. The last two weeks almost look like he still thinks he's at Stanford.

[MB-ColtsFan]

Alot of that has to do with not being able to trust his line.  I think our bookends are fine but our interior needs help.

Yep.  A small sample size for Jack at RT, but, on the whole I agree.  We are set there - no worries.

[will426]

Luck use to be very disciplined about make bad throws. He would usually eat that sack. Not this year tough. The online is serviceable, but they obviously aren't good enough to handle blitzing from 2 of the top 5 defenses on plays that take 4 to 5 seconds to develop. Play call adjustments need to be made immediately, because our front seven is doing fantastic and they don't need to loose confidence because we aren't scoring.

pep is holding us back I believe because their is never any adjustments not until the 10 min mark of the 4qtr..see how Peyton looks in His new offense straight trash cuz it doesn't work for him then he switches back to his old during the game and they score repeatedly

[Shane Bond]

May be Luck isn't the best QB drafted since Elway !

[aaron11]

 the middle of the field is wide open (3rd and 2 in the first quarter Monday, when we really should have been running it, but we throw a fade to Hilton, who is covered by the one and only Darrelle Revis...)

 

way to be specific this time

[CoachSmok3]

May be Luck isn't the best QB drafted since Elway !

 

lol, ok...i dont understand your point? and i am not meaning to come across as combative, but- is it that your opinion goes against others opinions so thats the point? 

 

wouldnt any "greatest ever" debates be solely based on opinion as opposed to facts anyway?

 

i just dont see a point to the posting unless it was simply to spread negativity or to bait someone to argue?

 

* i may have fallen victim to option 2...but i am not looking to debate anything...just to understand the intent behind the post.

 

thank you

[Defjamz26]

Nah the O-Line is pretty bad. Every notable analyst has said the same. And the defense can no longer be, "well other teams have O-line issues too". The OTs are fine, but the interior is bad. Holmes gave up 10 pressures and Herremans was abused.

It's far from the worst in the league but it's sub-par. I'm not saying that there aren't things that Pep and Luck can do to counter blitzes but it doesn't change the point.