So I'll Just Come Out And Say It.

[SanAntonioColt]

Sadly that would be too easy - I'm 100% sure they'd trade it away.

OP: Several people (SilentHill in particular) were flamed very strongly for saying that, but I agree entirely. However priorities straight - first thing to do is cheer your heart out for Vikings, Rams and 49ers (so they rest starters vs Rams week 17) tomorrow.

You are correct. If the Vikings or Rams don't take Luck, they will tradedown to a team that will take him. The Colts will not get him with anything later than the first pick.

[JCPatriot]

All I said was that I was upset about the win and how it was a horrible day and what not. I was flamed WELL before I even told "someone" they were just a Manning fan, while that one particular person probably is.

Balderdash! Below was your first post in that thread (which was the 3rd post overall). You started off with the "just a Manning fan" garbage right out of the gate.

horrible... just horrible. I don't know how anyone can be happy about this unless they are just a Manning fan.

[ruksak]

No, SilentHill was flamed for busting into a thread meant to celebrate last night's win and stating that being happy about the win means that you are a Manning fan and not a Colts fan and if you were a true Colts fan you would be upset by the win. There is a difference. Anytime somebody starts the "true fan" garbage, it usually leads to flaming.

The jumbled thoughts on this issue swirling chaotically in my head:

1. I hope the Colts lose to the Jags. The #1 pick has far more value than an extra win in a 2-14 season will ever have.

2. Under no circumstances do I want the Colts to tank the game. They should play to win to the best of their ability.

3. I will be rooting for the Colts to win......even though it is in direct contradiction of #1.

4. I will not be upset or angry with the players or the team if they do beat the Jags. I will be frustrated that this miserable season will end without the Colts getting the #1 pick as a consolation prize, but I will not hold it against he players or the coaches if they give it their all and come out on top.

5. I hope the Rams and Vikings both somehow find a way to win so that #1-4 become a moot point, I can root for a win, AND I can enjoy the win if it happens.

Brilliant! Thank you.

BTW....SilentHill and others weren't attacked for their opinion, they were attacked for their crappy attiutude toward us fans that were happy about the win. Jaric managed to convey the same sentiment (that he wishes the Colts just lose for the pick) without insulting anyone or trying to call people "Manning Fans".

I understand the desire for the pick, but myself, I prefer to ignore that aspect and allow fate to take care of it. I'm just going to enjoy what few wins my Colts have as well as the last Colts game of the year.

[CR91]

i honestly can not see the vikings or the rams not winning one more game. the vikings play the redskins and the bears both games are winnable. the rams are playing a benless steelers team and 49ers team that probably will not play their starters. plus i cant really see us beating the jags. we couldnt even beat them at home and even with manning, we struggle to beat the jags.

[BIGugly]

For the record, I'm not saying we should tank it. Just that I hope we don't win.

Well, we really need one more good look a Painter before we decide whether or not to keep him as a QB. Maybe start him vs Jax?

[Jaric]

and your fan card has been revoked. Temporarily. Under advisement. Until further notice.

If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

[Jaric]

He was only kidding...

LOL Jaric. He was only giving some good humor

No, it's all good. JJ knows me from WAAAAAY back when. He has a pretty good idea of when I'm joking around and when I'm not.

[jskinnz]

Luck could easily fall to 2 or 3.

2 much more likely than 3. Vikes and Rams both have very young, good QBs, and both have other needs. If the Rams get the number 1 pick and Colts have number 2, Rams will pick OL and Colts will pick Luck.

No. Not a chance. Luck will be the first pick.

[Pancake Block]

I think the Colts should try to win the game. They've got some momentum and that can carry into next year. The speculation about the draft pick is just that. Speculation. We need to know whether Manning's coming back first. Then team management can make the call. I have confidence in both Irsay and Polian. This team is in transition. I predicted that playing without Manning could be a blessing in disguise. I like our offensive switch to some power running. Still not sure if having a FB is better than the two TE or TE/HB formula, but either is preferable to a team that uses the run as an afterthought and can't convert 3rd and 1's. Without Manning, I think the rest of the team grew a little and was forced to be more physical. I'm excited about next year.

[Montana]

Well, I've been a Colts fan since 1957, and in all that time, thru all the ups and downs, I've never rooted against my team. I can't even imagine doing that, guess I'm 'old school', I root for my team not against them. In my mind, I can't think of any reason that could change that mind set. But, you do what you think you need to do, I'm not in the business of evaluating who is or who isn't a fan. I just know about my fan beliefs, and I'm good with that, always have been, always will be.

[CCH]

Very well said. Also, whoever we get at pick two would likely contribute immediately, and for a decade, instead of just several years from now.

Or we could potentially trade the friggen #1 pick and get multiple players who would likely contribute immediately, and for a decade, instead of just several years from now.

There is a HUGE difference between the #1 overall pick and #2 overall pick, especially with Barkley staying at USC. Teams are going to give up everything for Luck! I heard on the radio that the Browns could give up their 2 1st rounders this year, their 2nd and 3rd round pick, as well as multiple future 1st and 2nd round picks. Why on God's green Earth would you rather have the 2nd pick!? No it wasn't a great point, the difference between the 1st pick and the 2nd pick is everything.

[tfunky14]

Or we could potentially trade the friggen #1 pick and get multiple players who would likely contribute immediately, and for a decade, instead of just several years from now.

There is a HUGE difference between the #1 overall pick and #2 overall pick, especially with Barkley staying at USC. Teams are going to give up everything for Luck! I heard on the radio that the Browns could give up their 2 1st rounders this year, their 2nd and 3rd round pick, as well as multiple future 1st and 2nd round picks. Why on God's green Earth would you rather have the 2nd pick!? No it wasn't a great point, the difference between the 1st pick and the 2nd pick is everything.

Yea but if Luck doesn't pan out and there is no sure thing, that would set them back 8-10 years because of all the drafts picks the traded away.

[BProland85]

Or we could potentially trade the friggen #1 pick and get multiple players who would likely contribute immediately, and for a decade, instead of just several years from now.

There is a HUGE difference between the #1 overall pick and #2 overall pick, especially with Barkley staying at USC. Teams are going to give up everything for Luck! I heard on the radio that the Browns could give up their 2 1st rounders this year, their 2nd and 3rd round pick, as well as multiple future 1st and 2nd round picks. Why on God's green Earth would you rather have the 2nd pick!? No it wasn't a great point, the difference between the 1st pick and the 2nd pick is everything.

Completely agree. If we can get the 1st overall pick, I wanna see us see what we can get for that 1st pick. If we could get Cleveland's 2 firsts, 2nd, and next years' 1st, Id be all for it to move down to around the 5 spot where they'll be picking and take QB Robert Griffin, WR Justin Blackmon, or CB Morris Claiborne(in that order).

[CCH]

Yea but if Luck doesn't pan out and there is no sure thing, that would set them back 8-10 years because of all the drafts picks the traded away.

Well if we traded the pick who cares if Luck is a bust? Actually if we trade the pick and Luck is a bust it will be better for us because we'll have top 5 picks the next couple of years. The point is that teams will give up everything for Andrew Luck.

[SilentHill]

Balderdash! Below was your first post in that thread (which was the 3rd post overall). You started off with the "just a Manning fan" garbage right out of the gate.

Ahh I see what your saying. A simple misunderstanding is all. The OP of that thread was already having this discussion with me in another thread and it spilled into that one, making it appear that it came out of nowhere.

[SilentHill]

Brilliant! Thank you.

BTW....SilentHill and others weren't attacked for their opinion, they were attacked for their crappy attiutude toward us fans that were happy about the win. Jaric managed to convey the same sentiment (that he wishes the Colts just lose for the pick) without insulting anyone or trying to call people "Manning Fans".

I understand the desire for the pick, but myself, I prefer to ignore that aspect and allow fate to take care of it. I'm just going to enjoy what few wins my Colts have as well as the last Colts game of the year.

you are misguided... I was attacked WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY before any of that. It started in the chat when I was rooting for the Texans.

[Susie Q]

you are misguided... I was attacked WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY before any of that. It started in the chat when I was rooting for the Texans.

Well what did you expect when your in a Colts chat room? I didn't see anyone attacking you just teasing you because most people in the chat room are hoping for a Colts win. Everyone knew you were hoping the Texans would win but most everyone else was hoping for a Colts win. Sorry you thought you were attacked because I personally didn't see it that way. I was late getting there so I may have missed it. If so sorry you were attacked.

[SilentHill]

Well what did you expect when your in a Colts chat room? I didn't see anyone attacking you just teasing you because most people in the chat room are hoping for a Colts win. Everyone knew you were hoping the Texans would win but most everyone else was hoping for a Colts win. Sorry you thought you were attacked because I personally didn't see it that way. I was late getting there so I may have missed it. If so sorry you were attacked.

I expected people to realize that losing one meaningless game in December 2011 would be better for the team going forward? I'm still baffled why anyone would think differently but, that is just one of the mysteries of the universe that mankind may never understand. Also I'm not upset I was attacked I'm just upset that I'm being attacked for defending myself.

[ruksak]

you are misguided... I was attacked WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY before any of that. It started in the chat when I was rooting for the Texans.

I didn't know anything about that. I will say, not so much in your defense but just to lay it out there, people in both camps have been pretty nasty. I guess what bothered me most was that it bothered so many people that some of us were happy about the wins.

About people wanting the Colts to lose.....I get that. I really do. Part of me feels the same way. The benefit of winning an otherwise meaningless game is short lived to say the least. The benefit of selecting a potential franchise QB for the next 15 years is, obviously, long lasting in compare.

This coming week is when everyones resolve toward this matter will be tested the most. The last two wins were fun as a fan to experience and only stood to jeopardize the #1 overall pick. This next one could remove of from contention altogether.

If we do slide out of the #1 pick, I want people to temper their frustration and realize that this may well be for the best.

[Susie Q]

I didn't know anything about that. I will say, not so much in your defense but just to lay it out there, people in both camps have been pretty nasty. I guess what bothered me most was that it bothered so many people that some of us were happy about the wins.

About people wanting the Colts to lose.....I get that. I really do. Part of me feels the same way. The benefit of winning an otherwise meaningless game is short lived to say the least. The benefit of selecting a potential franchise QB for the next 15 years is, obviously, long lasting in compare.

This coming week is when everyones resolve toward this matter will be tested the most. The last two wins were fun as a fan to experience and only stood to jeopardize the #1 overall pick. This next one could remove of from contention altogether.

If we do slide out of the #1 pick, I want people to temper their frustration and realize that this may well be for the best.

Well I have always been told that everything happens for a reason and if we don't get the first pick there is a reason for that. Maybe we don't understand why but oh well I for one will learn to live with what ever happens.

Hopefully people will temper their frustration but if I was a betting person I wouldn't put any money on that one.

[ruksak]

Well I have always been told that everything happens for a reason and if we don't get the first pick there is a reason for that. Maybe we don't understand why but oh well I for one will learn to live with what ever happens.

Hopefully people will temper their frustration but if I was a betting person I wouldn't put any money on that one.

Yea I know....not gonna happen. This season is going to cause infighting on this forum for a few years at least. Strange days indeed. I never NEVER ever never thought I'd live to see the day when I'd hear the phrase "Should the Colts trade Peyton Manning".

I'm starting to believe in the Super Bowl hosting team curse. Boy how the wheels flew off this thing in a hurry. Keep the SB far away from my city, it brings ill omens.

[SilentHill]

I didn't know anything about that. I will say, not so much in your defense but just to lay it out there, people in both camps have been pretty nasty. I guess what bothered me most was that it bothered so many people that some of us were happy about the wins.

About people wanting the Colts to lose.....I get that. I really do. Part of me feels the same way. The benefit of winning an otherwise meaningless game is short lived to say the least. The benefit of selecting a potential franchise QB for the next 15 years is, obviously, long lasting in compare.

This coming week is when everyones resolve toward this matter will be tested the most. The last two wins were fun as a fan to experience and only stood to jeopardize the #1 overall pick. This next one could remove of from contention altogether.

If we do slide out of the #1 pick, I want people to temper their frustration and realize that this may well be for the best.

The real reason I wanted a Texans win so bad is so I could get back into rooting for the team to win, Now I have to finish the season hoping for another loss, unless it's a Christmas miracle and MIN and STL win today.

[Susie Q]

Yea I know....not gonna happen. This season is going to cause infighting on this forum for a few years at least. Strange days indeed. I never NEVER ever never thought I'd live to see the day when I'd hear the phrase "Should the Colts trade Peyton Manning".

I'm starting to believe in the Super Bowl hosting team curse. Boy how the wheels flew off this thing in a hurry. Keep the SB far away from my city, it brings ill omens.

Yea I know....not gonna happen. This season is going to cause infighting on this forum for a few years at least. Strange days indeed. I never NEVER ever never thought I'd live to see the day when I'd hear the phrase "Should the Colts trade Peyton Manning".

I'm starting to believe in the Super Bowl hosting team curse. Boy how the wheels flew off this thing in a hurry. Keep the SB far away from my city, it brings ill omens.

I agree completely about the curse. I will be glad when it's all over and we can get a SB win next year with the great Peyton Manning. By the way when are you taking the Bag off? We have won 2 games I thought you would store the bag by now.

[ruksak]

I agree completely about the curse. I will be glad when it's all over and we can get a SB win next year with the great Peyton Manning. By the way when are you taking the Bag off? We have won 2 games I thought you would store the bag by now.

I wub my bag. Do I have to? It makes me giggles inside and feel all tickley when i see it.

[Nadine]

I'm just upset that I'm being attacked for defending myself.

I agree that there has been some of this going on And it should not happen

Sometimes people get a bit mean spirited and imo hyena-like

Susies never mean though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not possible

[jskinnz]

Okay..irregardless of the player available..

the second pick is EXACTLY the same as the first pick...

Its an all-American....probably from a major college..who is certain to start immediately..

Its no loss to get the second pick instead of the 1st and you can trade up one space..if we later believe it is.

The second pick is excatly the same as the first unless you think one player is

Completely uninformed.

Merry Christmas by the way.

[jskinnz]

You're missing the point. This is not about Luck, it's about the value that the first overall pick has this year compared to drafting 2nd or 3rd. If we win against the Jags, we likely lose out on that value.

That's the point.

You are winning this thread by a landslide. If it were a boxing match, the ref would have stopped it many, many rounds ago.

[geinsteder]

I really hope they dont. Im going to the game!!!!

I have been to 2 Jags games one in Indy and one in Jax and we have lost both time.

I really really hoping to see a win to close out the season and with optimism and looking forward to 2012.

They played great the past two games with alot of heart. I dont see them laying down.

I will be cheering them on from the sideline and hoping to see a few colts players. It will be my son's first colts game.

Merry Christmas Colts fans!

[jskinnz]

The Jags might want to tank the game to prevent the Colts from getting the #1 pick.

Hard for me to believe that. They have players and coaches who are looking for employment next year too.

[ruksak]

The real reason I wanted a Texans win so bad is so I could get back into rooting for the team to win, Now I have to finish the season hoping for another loss, unless it's a Christmas miracle and MIN and STL win today.

Makes sense to me. It just felt so good to watch them win. I forgot all about the ramifications, draft positions and all that jazz and just enjoyed a Colts win. I'm glad I didn't have to miss out on that feeling all together for an entire year.

Minn and STL both have away games, with STL playing Pitt. I could see Minn scraping out a win but STL isn't looking like they'll get it done. Lets just hope they catch some of what the Colts got and they find a way to win.

[ruksak]

You are winning this thread by a landslide. If it were a boxing match, the ref would have stopped it many, many rounds ago.

Well, he's arguing from a position of strength and reason. While many others are arguing from the oft times unreasonable sports fanatic standpoint. It is inarguable that there is more value in the #1 than there is in the #2. A clump of hair could argue that successfully. Though Jaric has done a far better job then the clump of hair would've.

[Jaric]

Well, he's arguing from a position of strength and reason. While many others are arguing from the oft times unreasonable sports fanatic standpoint. It is inarguable that there is more value in the #1 than there is in the #2. A clump of hair could argue that successfully. Though Jaric has done a far better job then the clump of hair would've.

Thank you. I do set the bar pretty high for myself.

[ruksak]

Thank you. I do set the bar pretty high for myself.

lol.....

Jaric....Better than a clump of hair!

[Jaric]

lol.....

Jaric....Better than a clump of hair!

This is by far the bestest Christmas present I'm getting this year.

[MikeinAmman]

Here's a question, then. If the Colts lose against the Jags because of an obvious coaching blunder, and after, Caldwell says that he made that blunder on purpose because, as so many of you say, 2-14 or 3-13 makes no difference, and he was thinking of the long-term health of the franchise by cementing the 1st overall pick, will you support that move? Will it be a piece of coaching genius, or just another reason to fire him? If you are as certain as you think you are about this, what other choice does the team, players and coaching staff alike, have EXCEPT to tank, for, as you say, the long-term good of the team? If winning actually hurts the team, then losing is the only option, and the Colts therefore have the responsibility to tank, right?

And by the way, how can anyone watch Peyton Manning on the sidelines of the Texans game and pull for the Colts to lose?

[Jaric]

Here's a question, then. If the Colts lose against the Jags because of an obvious coaching blunder, and after, Caldwell says that he made that blunder on purpose because, as so many of you say, 2-14 or 3-13 makes no difference, and he was thinking of the long-term health of the franchise by cementing the 1st overall pick, will you support that move? Will it be a piece of coaching genius, or just another reason to fire him? If you are as certain as you think you are about this, what other choice does the team, players and coaching staff alike, have EXCEPT to tank, for, as you say, the long-term good of the team? If winning actually hurts the team, then losing is the only option, and the Colts therefore have the responsibility to tank, right?

And by the way, how can anyone watch Peyton Manning on the sidelines of the Texans game and pull for the Colts to lose?

No one is saying they should tank it. Or at least I haven't seen it. That's not what I'm saying at all.

Just that it's better if they get the number one overall pick.

I suppose if you want, we could have a long drawn out conversation about duty or what sort of obligations the team is under, but I don't think that's necessary because I think everyone understands that the team is going to go out and try to do what it is supposed to do, which is win football games. I'll be incredibly proud of them if they do actually.

[masterlock]

Actually, I think any true fan with a brain would be hoping for a Colts loss. Another win, at this point, is basically meaningless in the long run. Getting the first pick is essential to the long-term health of the franchise. Go Jags!!!

[Case]

Actually, I think any true fan with a brain would be hoping for a Colts loss. Another win, at this point, is basically meaningless in the long run. Getting the first pick is essential to the long-term health of the franchise. Go Jags!!!

I agree but be ready for the real colts fans to disagree.

Your in big trouble.

[Captain Americolt]

I agree but be ready for the real colts fans to disagree.

Your in big trouble.

Seems like you're instigating a bit..

[Bleedin Blue]

Very well said. Also, whoever we get at pick two would likely contribute immediately, and for a decade, instead of just several years from now. -doogansquest

Or we could potentially trade the friggen #1 pick and get multiple players who would likely contribute immediately, and for a decade, instead of just several years from now.

There is a HUGE difference between the #1 overall pick and #2 overall pick, especially with Barkley staying at USC. Teams are going to give up everything for Luck! I heard on the radio that the Browns could give up their 2 1st rounders this year, their 2nd and 3rd round pick, as well as multiple future 1st and 2nd round picks. Why on God's green Earth would you rather have the 2nd pick!? No it wasn't a great point, the difference between the 1st pick and the 2nd pick is everything.

Exactly! I was about to say NOT very well said! Regardless if you want to see Luck drafted to be "in waiting" behind Manning or you want a boatload of picks, the difference between #1 and #2 is either the best QB prospect in 10-15 years to come out of the draft or a ransom in picks. It could very well be that the Rams trade the #1 pick to Cleveland and that the next team needing a QB (Seattle, Washington) also trade with us to move up but even so, the bounty for #2 will likely be much less than #1. So these guys that are clamoring to trade down to strengthen the team don't make any sense to say that #2 is just as good as #1...simply not true. We benefit in all scenarios by picking #1 in April.