VOTE: If NFL finds Pats cheated, what should their punishment be?

[mintor]

hmmm ?

 

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-england-patriots-deflategate-punishment-poll-012115?cmpid=tsmfb%3Afscom%3Afoxsports

[Blue Horseshoe]

Suspension for all of 2015 effective immefiately

[mintor]

Remove the New England Patriots football team from Superbowl 49 for cheating. Insert the Baltimore Ravens and Indianapolis Colts to play for the AFC Championship game in two weeks for the right to play the Seattle Seahawks for Superbowl 49.

https://www.change.org/p/barack-obama-nfl-remove-the-new-england-patriots-football-team-from-superbowl-49-for-cheating-insert-the-baltimore-ravens-and-indianapolis-colts-to-play-for-the-afc-championship-game-in-two-weeks-for-the-right-to-play-the-seattle-seahawks-for-superbo

 

look here ,lol.  

[Combsey]

What ifoundcool about this poll is 34% think the colts should replace NE in the super bowl

[mintor]

What ifoundcool about this poll is 34% think the colts should replace NE in the super bowl

 

 

yes , thought was great that nfl fans wanted colts too play in the sb . 

[jameszeigler834]

yes , thought was great that nfl fans wanted colts too play in the sb . 

I think they cheated and if that's the ruling I agree remove them from the super bowl and put the colts in there do I know if that would have changed that game maybe and maybe not but it don't matter they still cheated.

[mintor]

I think they cheated and if that's the ruling I agree remove them from the super bowl and put the colts in there do I know if that would have changed that game maybe and maybe not but it don't matter they still cheated.

 

 

 

see were most of the pats fans don,t care if they cheated.

[Blue Horseshoe]

What about the Hall of Fame voters?  Do you think they could punish B & B for their repeated offenses?

[mintor]

What about the Hall of Fame voters?  Do you think they could punish B & B for their repeated offenses?

 doubt that all about money .

[pacolts56]

For ANY Pats coach and/or player found to have known of the alleged acts....a 1yr suspension effective immediately.

For the team....forfeiture of their entire slate of 2015 draft picks, including comp picks, and with no draft day trades allowed.

Oh....and one more thing....

Robert Kraft has to wear D'Quell Jackson's smelly game-worn Colts undershirt in that ivory tower luxury box of his....unwashed....for all of next season.

[mintor]

For ANY Pats coach and/or player found to have known of the alleged acts....a 1yr suspension effective immediately.

For the team....forfeiture of their entire slate of 2015 draft picks, including comp picks, and with no draft day trades allowed.

Oh....and one more thing....

Robert Kraft has to wear D'Quell Jackson's smelly game-worn Colts undershirt in that ivory tower luxury box of his....unwashed....for all of next season.

   good one

[jvan1973]

Thumbs down, gladiator style

[bestQBever]

yes , thought was great that nfl fans wanted colts too play in the sb . 

only to get our butts whooped on the biggest stage in the game. 

[Coltsman1788]

If it can be proved that they were guilty...I'd be good with a one year ban from the NFL and all league related activities. Which means they couldn't even participate in the upcoming draft and would have to sit out one full season as punishment for their second cheating offense.

 

But I realize that the NFL isn't ballsy enough to do the above so I expect the Pats to be hit with a big fine and the loss of some draft picks...basically just another slap on the wrist while they potentially celebrate another tarnished Lombardi.

[da_pats_troll]

I was going to say make them hire Mangini back, but its too late for that.

[COLTS449]

Banish Belichick and other members of the coaching staff from the league. Oh yeah, and get one of those big leather whips and publicly whip Brady 3 times on the streets of Indianapolis, then make him walk naked out of town while the townspeople throw small items at him and yell obscenities. ......

[Bluefire4]

I don't think Bill had anything to do with it. The highest punishment would be to suspend Brady, the lowest would be a modest fine.

[Dr. Guildo]

I don't think Bill had anything to do with it. The highest punishment would be to suspend Brady, the lowest would be a modest fine.

I'd suspend them both for the Super Bowl and all of next season, Kraft gets 8 games, and the team loses a number of draft picks. Then maybe they will finally stop... or Kraft fires Billy Belichick once and for all. Throw the book at 'em.

[basspapaw]

 Tom the two faced( cant tell the difference between 12.5 and 11 psi) Brady should have to forfeit all stats for the entire season such as passing yards receptions etc. All the numbers he has put up are a farce he had at least one decided advantage over the other qbs  who all played by the rules.He should not ever be considered  for hall of fame. It is the same as using performance enhancing drugs ,The balls were manipulated to help the patriots preform better.

[southwest1]

Since the main deflate topic was locked down, I wanted to place some last minute thoughts here. I will reserve any possible sanction discussions until Roger Goodell chimes in.

 

Okay, I've watched Tom Brady's press conference on deflated footballs twice now. I like Tom & you don't get to his level of greatness by cutting corners. Translation: He's build up over a decades worth of impressive playoff wins & he's 1 hades of a QB, which kills me to say that as an INDY fan, but it's the truth: Tommy is no fraud & he's not a cheater period. Now, let's dissect the actual press conference shall we...

 

I'm a big body language guy or I pay close attention to it even though I've had no formal training professionally in this arena. For starters, when a reporter asks you what do you say to fan that idolizes you that their #1 QB is perceived as manipulating the system/cheating? It's not a good look to be smiling or smurking. It sets the wrong tone for the gravity of the situation violating the integrity of the game. It's like laughing as you stare into a deceased person's funeral casket. It doesn't mean you are sadistic. It just means that the circumstance warrants no jubilant behavior or facial expressions.

 

Tom did say that the entire Patriots organization wants to be a role model entity to countless high school programs, college programs, & other NFL franchises about how to win the right way. Good advice, but it did trouble me that when asked doesn't your reputation & Foxboro's reputation matter to you? Don't you want to know who did this or how 11 of 12 balls got deflated? He simply said people are entitled to their opinions & our attention is focused on the Seahawks right now. Look, if someone called me a cheater after winning 3 Lombardi Trophies & appearing in 5 SBs, I'd pound my fist on the podium & defiantly say "I can tell you with absolute certainty that I am no QB who plays fast & loose with the rules. I and my teammates along with the coaching staff worked diligently to acquire our rings legitimately. I do not care to have my legacy called into question & I can promise you that I will internally get to the bottom of this matter." I just don't care for the causal, Laissez-faire approach to having my Championships our championships scrutinized as obtained through cloak & dagger methods provided that I was walking in Brady's shoes that is.  

 

I suppose one could make the argument that Brady felt relaxed in a room full of Patriot journalists & like the White House Press Corp on the eve of Christmas Tom has generated a happy go lucky friendship with these reporters over the years & when you're about to play in your 6th SB who wouldn't be smiling & feeling good? It's like when a celebrity is on trial for allegedly murdering their lover & the court reporter says "The defendant looked stoic & emotionless sitting next to his attorney." What's a guilty or innocent person supposed to look like? I prefer to weigh the evidence once it's revealed as opposed to a person's demeanor or personality. 

 

Who let the air out of 11 footballs? That's an intentional, deliberate act. It's not weather or manufacturer related. That question must be answered & if it remains unknown to the public masses at the conclusion of this NFL investigation this story will never die. 

 

If NE wins a 4th Lombardi trophy, I will sincerely congratulate this organization on such a remarkable achievement, but deflate gate must determine who let the air out of those balls for Foxboro's own peace of mind because if no answer is revealed it means that according to Bill Belichick the ends justifies the means. Win any way you can & the consequences be darned. 

 

In my heart, I have built up too much respect for Robert Kraft, Bill Belichick, & Tom Brady to honestly think that these 3 highly intelligent men don't want that dilemma fully resolved, explored, & kicked over all stones from every possible angle. But, if no new information about deflated balls is disclosed say 1 year from now NE's stellar reputation takes a major hit in my eyes. That's how I feel at this particular point in time. 

[-JJ-]

Since the main deflate topic was locked down, I wanted to place some last minute thoughts here. I will reserve any possible sanction discussions until Roger Goodell chimes in.

 

Okay, I've watched Tom Brady's press conference on deflated footballs twice now. <snip>

Brady always has that smirk/smile almost kid like since I've known him- even when he gives a PC after losing.

Having said that your points maybe be valid- although he's not the type to slam his fist (in a manner of speaking)

[crazycolt1]

Brady always has that smirk/smile almost kid like since I've known him- even when he gives a PC after losing.

Having said that your points maybe be valid- although he's not the type to slam his fist (in a manner of speaking)

He keeps that in reserve for the officials when he don't get his calls on the field! :yes:

[southwest1]

He keeps that in reserve for the officials when he don't get his calls on the field! :yes:

Either that or when JPP of the NY Giants sacks him or Giselle claims she has a headache on his birthday. Wink; Wink. I kid. I kid. 

[coltslover10]

That none of there games next season count, and that they can't go to the Superbowl for 2 years minimum

[southwest1]

Brady always has that smirk/smile almost kid like since I've known him- even when he gives a PC after losing.

Having said that your points maybe be valid- although he's not the type to slam his fist (in a manner of speaking)

You're probably right JJ. Brady learned to batten down the hatches from his head coach's Annapolis days. Adopt a bunker mentality & let no media personnel or impeding crisis penetrate Foxboro's walls. 

 

It's like when a highly respected person lets you down. It's very disappointing. Plausible deniability was not the right approach here. Look, I get that Bill & Tommy have a big game to prep for next month, but how many times can a person say "I don't have any control over that or I know nothing about that?" It just left me with the impression that this situation isn't all that important to resolve even a month after the SB. It's not a life & death matter sure, but it is a mystery that deserves an answer for Robert Kraft's sake. JMO. 

[-JJ-]

He keeps that in reserve for the officials when he don't get his calls on the field! :yes:

Well I hope he doesn't smile at Sherman on the field when he gets hit ;) 

[GoColts8818]

Fire them. Oh wait wrong thread sorry...

We have to see who knew what first and what the league can prove people knew.

[ruksak]

Posted by me at another fan forum;

 

 

[Regarding the idea of a rematch] As I've said numerous times, this isn't about the Colts. It's about NE and what they did. It's about how they've made a relatively benign attempt at skirting the rules much worse by lying to the entire world, in Brady's case, lying very poorly. I don't want a rematch, because they'd embarrass us even worse the 3rd time around. 

Even though in principle, a cheater should be disqualified and have their title stripped, I don't feel like the Colts earned a trip to the Super Bowl, so that's out of the question as well. 

Severe punishment is needed here, something precedent setting and harsh. 

There's a lot of talk about suspending Brady and Belichick for the Super Bowl. Now...beyond the fact that this would critically injure the product of the game, I also feel it isn't right to effectively pave the road for Seattle. They too must earn their championship, and just like I said the Colts don't deserve a trip to the SB because they didn't earn it, the Hawks need to earn their title. 

So beyond the emotion of dealing with the fact that the Pats cheated while playing my team, beyond the emotion of having Brady lie to us all, next season is when they need to pay. Anything beforehand not only punishes them, but it punishes the product of the Super Bowl. 

I have a personal comment about Brady; It took over 10 years for that man to earn my respect. After all the hard battles between my team and his, the rivalry that once stood as the premier matchup of the NFL, it took a decade for me to get past my "hate" of him and start to revere him, to respect him in the same light I respect Manning. 

Now, with one botched attempt to lie about cheating (of all things), it's all gone. All the respect that took ten years to gain is gone in a 15 minute interview. I can honestly say, if he had admitted they manipulated the pressure of the balls, I'd not feel this way. I'd respect him for admitting it like a man. It's not that big of a deal, I'd get over it. But the lying? No way. I'll never look at him the same again.

[ruksak]

 

 

It's like when a highly respected person lets you down. It's very disappointing. Plausible deniability was not the right approach here. Look, I get that Bill & Tommy have a big game to prep for next month, but how many times can a person say "I don't have any control over that or I know nothing about that?" It just left me with the impression that this situation isn't all that important to resolve even a month after the SB. It's not a life & death matter sure, but it is a mystery that deserves an answer for Robert Kraft's sake. JMO. 

 

It smacks me as inconceivable that this man, Belichick, known for ultimate control over his realm, has no idea what happened. Somebody tampered with their footballs and he doesn't seem upset about, nobody has been fired, he hasn't spoken about it in a manner that tells me he's trying to get to the bottom of it. 

 

I absolutely guarantee if something was going on to sabotage his team in this respect, say if somebody poked holes in their footballs to make them go flat, he'd be getting to the bottom of it. He would find out what the hell happened, or at least what he'd be saying would have fire, conviction and anger behind it. 

 

Sometimes it's not what people say that is alarming, it's what they don't say which causes alarm. It makes no sense, and his words didn't follow the line of logic that would would expect if he had discovery of someone nefariously tampering with their footballs. 

[Gavin]

Posted by me at another fan forum;

 

 

[Regarding the idea of a rematch] As I've said numerous times, this isn't about the Colts. It's about NE and what they did. It's about how they've made a relatively benign attempt at skirting the rules much worse by lying to the entire world, in Brady's case, lying very poorly. I don't want a rematch, because they'd embarrass us even worse the 3rd time around. 

Even though in principle, a cheater should be disqualified and have their title stripped, I don't feel like the Colts earned a trip to the Super Bowl, so that's out of the question as well. 

Severe punishment is needed here, something precedent setting and harsh. 

There's a lot of talk about suspending Brady and Belichick for the Super Bowl. Now...beyond the fact that this would critically injure the product of the game, I also feel it isn't right to effectively pave the road for Seattle. They too must earn their championship, and just like I said the Colts don't deserve a trip to the SB because they didn't earn it, the Hawks need to earn their title. 

So beyond the emotion of dealing with the fact that the Pats cheated while playing my team, beyond the emotion of having Brady lie to us all, next season is when they need to pay. Anything beforehand not only punishes them, but it punishes the product of the Super Bowl. 

I have a personal comment about Brady; It took over 10 years for that man to earn my respect. After all the hard battles between my team and his, the rivalry that once stood as the premier matchup of the NFL, it took a decade for me to get past my "hate" of him and start to revere him, to respect him in the same light I respect Manning. 

Now, with one botched attempt to lie about cheating (of all things), it's all gone. All the respect that took ten years to gain is gone in a 15 minute interview. I can honestly say, if he had admitted they manipulated the pressure of the balls, I'd not feel this way. I'd respect him for admitting it like a man. It's not that big of a deal, I'd get over it. But the lying? No way. I'll never look at him the same again.

Gave this a like cause this is pretty much how I feel after Bradys interview with the exception I had always been a fan of Brady because he was and is a hell of a QB and brings a lot of fire to the game but damn some people and there refusal to come clean for one reason or another after being outright busted by there own lie but like you alluded to they pretty well wiped the field with us. A couple PSI's or 1 would not have changed it, The superior team at that time won.....Truthfully as expected sadly.

[rsrobinson]

Check this out: http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

Someone did a study of fumble tendencies and apparently the number of times the Patriots fumbled dropped dramatically beginning in 2007 and have been so abnormally off the charts for a cold weather non-dome team as to be nearly statistically impossible.

It looks to me like they've been deflating footballs since 2007. I didn't really think that this was a big deal until I saw this. If the better grip has allowed them to reduce their fumbles for years now that is a major competitive advantage and the punishment could make those for Bountygate and Spygate look like slaps on the wrist.

[amfootball]

Check this out: http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

Someone did a study of fumble tendencies and apparently the number of times the Patriots fumbled dropped dramatically beginning in 2007 and have been so abnormally off the charts for a cold weather non-dome team as to be nearly statistically impossible.

It looks to me like they've been deflating footballs since 2007. I didn't really think that this was a big deal until I saw this. If the better grip has allowed them to reduce their fumbles for years now that is a major competitive advantage and the punishment could make those for Bountygate and Spygate look like slaps on the wrist.

lol. Yeah, it would not be the fact that beginning in 2007 the Pats became an elite passing team with Brady or the fact that Bill emphasizes ball security more than anyone. Of course what is your explanation for Ridley's fumbles that got him benched last year? Must not have deflated the football enough for him I guess. smh.

[rsrobinson]

lol. Yeah, it would not be the fact that beginning in 2007 the Pats became an elite passing team with Brady or the fact that Bill emphasizes ball security more than anyone. Of course what is your explanation for Ridley's fumbles that got him benched last year? Must not have deflated the football enough for him I guess. smh.

So I guess Belichick just suddenly started emphasizing ball security in 2007? Also, between strip sacks on the quarterback and balls dislodged after the catch, pass plays are statistically nearly twice as likely to result in fumbles as running plays. In other words, an increase in passing attempts should result in an increase in fumbles, not a decrease. But yeah,now that you mention it, Brady's passing efficiency DID suddenly take a big leap beginning in 2007. Interesting.

[crazycolt1]

lol. Yeah, it would not be the fact that beginning in 2007 the Pats became an elite passing team with Brady or the fact that Bill emphasizes ball security more than anyone. Of course what is your explanation for Ridley's fumbles that got him benched last year? Must not have deflated the football enough for him I guess. smh.

So Bill emphasizes ball security more than anyone?  You idolize Belichich non stop so much it clouds your sense of reality. No matter what you think Belichick and Brady both are just men, not gods. All men have faults even in your dream world.

[ruksak]

lol. Yeah, it would not be the fact that beginning in 2007 the Pats became an elite passing team with Brady or the fact that Bill emphasizes ball security more than anyone. Of course what is your explanation for Ridley's fumbles that got him benched last year? Must not have deflated the football enough for him I guess. smh.

Myself, I'm not going to try and read more into this than necessary. All this stuff about fumble percentages, while valid conversationally, it has little merit in this discussion. It's not as silly as the weather theory, that is just ridiculous. The same weather that affected your footballs affected our footballs. That theory is moot. Don't go that route. Someone tampered with your footballs. 

 

My question for you is; How does it make you feel to know that most of the country (outside of NE) thinks your QB is a liar? Very few people believe him at all. 

 

Do you think Belichick doesn't seem so concerned about the fact that someone is tampering with the footballs? As I said above, if someone was trying to sabotage your footballs by poking holes in them, don't you think we'd expect a different language from Bill? 

[HOZER]

lol. Yeah, it would not be the fact that beginning in 2007 the Pats became an elite passing team with Brady or the fact that Bill emphasizes ball security more than anyone. Of course what is your explanation for Ridley's fumbles that got him benched last year? Must not have deflated the football enough for him I guess. smh.

Of course he emphasizes ball security, he didn't want the deflated balls getting into the "wrong" hands. Smh

[hawkeyes]

First time offenders should be fined, lose some draft picks maybe serve a suspension etc

 

Multiple time offenders who show a propensity to skirt the rules should be disqualified THEN if they do it again be banished from the league forever!

 

Clearly for those repeat offenders the former penalties are not getting the message home and the act of cheating far out weighs the result of any of them!  Consequently the NFL must escalate the penalty if they are going to deter the act in the future not only for these offenders but for others who feel as if they too need to skirt the rules!  

 

The precedent has been set - ignorance is no excuse!

 

The precedent has been set - a second offense will result in banishment from the league!

[bababooey]

lol. Yeah, it would not be the fact that beginning in 2007 the Pats became an elite passing team with Brady or the fact that Bill emphasizes ball security more than anyone. Of course what is your explanation for Ridley's fumbles that got him benched last year? Must not have deflated the football enough for him I guess. smh.

Yea bc no other team emphasizes ball security or benches fumblers. They fumble once per 187 plays over 5 years. Second best ever in history is once every 156 plays and sixth ever is 148 plays, that's extremely staggering. Also third team ever to not lose fumble at home this year, but ran 150 and 200 more plays then the other two who have done it. Your team is frauds.

[rsrobinson]

It looks like the server that was on has been crashing. Here's a tweet with one of the charts from it.

https://twitter.com/kevinshockey/status/558384546576490496

And a quote from it:

I actually went back and researched 5 year periods for the entire NFL over the last 25 years. The Patriots ratio of 187 plays to 1 fumble is the BEST of ANY team in the NFL for ANY 5 year span of time over the last 25 years. Not was it just the best, it wasn’t close:

2010-2014 Patriots: 187 plays/fumble

2009-2013 Patriots: 156 plays/fumble

2006-2010 Colts: 156 plays/fumble

2005-2009 Colts: 153 plays/fumble

2007-2011 Patriots: 149 plays/fumble

2008-2012 Patriots: 148 plays/fumble

2010-2014 Texans: 140 plays/fumble

2004-2008 Colts: 139 plays/fumble

2006-2010 Jets: 135 plays/fumble

1999-2003 Chiefs: 134 plays/fumble

So since 2007 the Patriots have had four of the top six fumble ratios over a five year period with 2010-2014 being the best in the past 25 years by a WIDE margin. Prior to 2007 they were about league average or below with the same coach/QB combo. Coincidentally or not, 2007 is also the year that Tom Brady's passing numbers exploded over previous years.

[IndyD4U]

If you look at the Saints and "bountygate" and the punishment that the league put on Sean Payton by suspending him for a year, then I would suspect that if/when found guilty the league will do something similar along those lines. The problem that I see is that if they can't prove BB knew of this, then who takes the fall? A ball boy? Certainly won't be Tom Brady, after all, he knew nothing about the balls. 

 

I think the pressure is on Goodell to come down hard. Especially after this year in the Scandalous NFL