Patriots being investigated for Deflating footballs.....(Mega Merge)

[jvan1973]

If they were filled with warm/hot air at room temp they absolutely could in only an hour or two

so the psts have an air compressor that injects balls with hot air? Interesting. never heard of one or have any idea what that would be used for

[Narcosys]

If on a 72 degree day you take the balls out of the 72 degree locker room and keep them in a bag, which for the purposes of this discussion, the footballs stay at 72 degrees.  and nothing is done

 

If on the other hand on a cold day of 12 degrees the balls leave the locker room at 72 degrees and are left in the bag and drop to say 25 degrees.  Then you take the 25 degree ball and warm it to 65 degree.  One has changed the temperature of the ball from 25 to 65 degrees.  What have you done.  You have altered the temperature of the ball.  Not sure how this is being missed.

 

To save typing I will kindly asked you to read my last post to OffensivelyPC (#2313) and let me now what rule do you think Dean B. was referring to in his statement to give him the authority to say what he said.  He uses the language "you can't do anything to the football"  We know that it is against NFL rules to do anything to the football based on his statement.  As he is saying one can not do anything to the football (in referring the Minn/Carl game)  what rule do you think he was referring too?  If not the one I cited which one?  Maybe you could find me that rule you think he is referring to in his statement?   

 

But if you keep them at the temp that they were originally inflated at, this is not altering.  Its maintaining the balls current form.  Not sure how this is being missed.  By your argument, taking them outside and having them cool down is tampering.  But you so kindly skip over that and jump to warming them back up.  Many people argue about the "Spirit of the rule".  He can point to that rule and clarify that is what the rule meant.  But the intial argument for the teams is the definition of the word "Alter" and how it is interpreted.  They both are referring to the same rule that can be argued on the technicality and interpretation of the wording.  Once the ref clarified it, they stopped it. 

[dw49]

Very insightful

 

 

I've already posted on this many times and I can't reply to *ic things like you have anymore.  The premise that 11 balls would deflate exactly to 2 LBs under , while the Colt balls all remained legal is stuff for *s. I feel a bit for you that you are actually buying into such malarky . So I figured I'd just tell you to stop rather than have to write something that calls you out as everyone else has pretty much covered how stupid your premise is

[ruksak]

Some of the conversation in this thread reminds me of reading a moon landing conspiracy debate. Where we have junior physicists attempting to speak toward sciences that they're not versed in, only parroting some garbledygook they read after doing a quick search online. 

[bababooey]

The fact that this thread is still debating as to how the balls could be deflated is ridiculous. Go back to Monday before Chris Mortenson dropped the bomb that 11 of the 12 were deflated after the fact both teams' balls were approved by the refs. Intent has already been established, only issue is who/how and suitable punishment.

 

Again naysayers, I implore you to listen to this http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/01/21/mike-francesa-on-deflate-gate-this-is-a-nightmare-for-the-nfl/

[Nadine]

I was responding to Jerod's post on it being revoked. I think the NFL will look at the ball prep and may want to take that away to avoid potential ball violations. Letting players doctor the balls for months means those balls may lose air faster when put into the game. For sure all things will be looked at ...

Yeah that must me what happened to all 11 Pat balls but no Colts balls.

 

I'm sure Peyton Manning appreciates having his name brought up here

[Nadine]

And the balls were regulation psi when they were inspected before the game.

The question becomes, did the Pats intentionally alter the game balls after the officials inspected them in the 2 hours leading up to the game

That is the question

[Iancolts]

I have to ask. Do you really want to play the Pats again?

I would play the pats again!! If they win again and not break the rules wouldn't that be better for a patriots image going into the Super Bowl?

[BlacknGold77]

I would play the pats again!! If they win again and not break the rules wouldn't that be better for a patriots image going into the Super Bowl?

 

28-0 in the half with confirmed legal balls

[bababooey]

28-0 in the half with confirmed legal balls

Not even remotely relevant. Also not the issue.

[pgt_rob]

28-0 in the half with confirmed legal balls

 

And cheated the first half. But since the Pats won by a lot, then that first part of cheating doesn't matter.

[GoPats]

Real classy comment. Just like your coach.

 

Don't understand the concept of tongue-in-cheek huh? See my other comments from yesterday. There is no ducking, dodging, diving, or deflecting from me. Regardless of the advantage it did or did not provide, and regardless of the fact that the Colts didn't even show up last weekend (ask Dwayne Allen), if they're guilty, they should be punished. 

 

Either way that was a completely unnecessary personal shot. So thanks for that. 

 

You're very concerned about "class" in sports... but you probably don't care much about Irsay's track record, or that Marvin Harrison probably had something to do with someone getting murdered. But whatever. We're evil, got it. Embrace the hate. 

[Gramz]

No matter what the outcome,  no matter what the league finds and hands down,  This Super Bowl is tarnished,  The league has another black mark, and it is all at the hands of the Pats.  That is for certain.  

 

There is no acceptable reason, explanation, or excuse that makes any of this go away.

 

[bababooey]

Don't understand the concept of tongue-in-cheek huh? See my other comments from yesterday. There is no ducking, dodging, diving, or deflecting from me. Regardless of the advantage it did or did not provide, and regardless of the fact that the Colts didn't even show up last weekend (ask Dwayne Allen), if they're guilty, they should be punished. 

 

Either way that was a completely unnecessary personal shot. So thanks for that. 

 

You're very concerned about "class" in sports... but you probably don't care much about Irsay's track record, or that Marvin Harrison probably had something to do with someone getting murdered. But whatever. We're evil, got it. Embrace the hate. 

The same Marvin Harrison your coach tried tripping up on the sideline the last time we faced them in the playoffs in 04, you know, during a game?

[bababooey]

 

If anyone wants a break, NFL Lip reading 2015 is here

[jvan1973]

Don't understand the concept of tongue-in-cheek huh? See my other comments from yesterday. There is no ducking, dodging, diving, or deflecting from me. Regardless of the advantage it did or did not provide, and regardless of the fact that the Colts didn't even show up last weekend (ask Dwayne Allen), if they're guilty, they should be punished.

Either way that was a completely unnecessary personal shot. So thanks for that.

You're very concerned about "class" in sports... but you probably don't care much about Irsay's track record, or that Marvin Harrison probably had something to do with someone getting murdered. But whatever. We're evil, got it. Embrace the hate.

i don't think pats fans should bring up murder histories. Marvin wasn't even charged. Where is Hernandez living these days?

[OffensivelyPC]

But if you keep them at the temp that they were originally inflated at, this is not altering.  Its maintaining the balls current form.  Not sure how this is being missed.  By your argument, taking them outside and having them cool down is tampering.  But you so kindly skip over that and jump to warming them back up.  Many people argue about the "Spirit of the rule".  He can point to that rule and clarify that is what the rule meant.  But the intial argument for the teams is the definition of the word "Alter" and how it is interpreted.  They both are referring to the same rule that can be argued on the technicality and interpretation of the wording.  Once the ref clarified it, they stopped it. 

Yeah, that quote he is resorting to as proof of what is an alteration is just a quote.  He keeps citing the rulebook and game operations manual, but it only says that you can't "alter" the football.  It doesn't say what is or is not an alteration, so it's one of those things that they probably discussed in meetings and stuff with teh league and have an idea built up in what is considered an alteration.  But that's all it is, an interpretation.  The teams can't know what the ref is thinking much less how he interprets the rules in  areas where the rulebook is silent - such as whether warming af ootball up with a heater is considered an alteration.  So it's just one of those things where, if the ref sees you doing something that's tip toeing the line, they'll stop it on a case by case basis.  That's what seems to be what likley happened in the Vikings/Panthers game.  It certainly wasn't expressly prohibited by any rule that yehoodi can point to.  However, I can point to Rule 2 Section 1 of the rulebook and say with aboslute clarity that what hte Pats did was absolutely prohibited by the rules.

[amfootball]

I've already posted on this many times and I can't reply to *ic things like you have anymore.  The premise that 11 balls would deflate exactly to 2 LBs under , while the Colt balls all remained legal is stuff for *s. I feel a bit for you that you are actually buying into such malarky . So I figured I'd just tell you to stop rather than have to write something that calls you out as everyone else has pretty much covered how stupid your premise is

Have you read or listening to Bill's press conference? He said the Pats keep their balls at the lowest acceptable psi. He said going forward they will make sure to inflate past the minimum so the balls don't dip below the accepted minimum limit after use.

 

In terms of the footballs, it has not been revealed if the Colts balls lost pressure. Only that they were within the acceptable limit when examined which makes sense as Luck likes his balls inflated more than Brady. If the Pats balls were right at the minimum than it stands to reason that all of them would have lost air and be below the range. I agree with you that if all the balls are the same amount (2lbs) under than something is fishy here but as you have said before, the NFL has to prove the tampering. Brady is going to speak today at 3:45 p.m. EST. Bill basically handed this mess off to him so he must have insights into this.

 

FYI - word here is the Pats org is very upset at Brady and that he may have been careless with his prep. Not sure if that is just a rumor or a way to deflect off of Bill but that is what the scuttle is here.

 

So much for Kravitz wanting Kraft to fire Bill, eh? lol.

[runthepost]

3:45

[dw49]

i don't pats fans should bring up murder histories. Marvin wasn't even charged. Where is Hernandez living these days?

 

 

It's just amazing that these guys keep retorting with all this ridiculous crap. I really could have my 7 year old grandson debate the whole lot of them at once and I do believe he would destroy them.

[bababooey]

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2015-01-21/ex-nfl-referee-all-12-patriot-footballs-were-underinflated-new-england-tom-brady-bill-belichick

 

Ex-NFL referee: All 12 Patriot footballs were underinflated

 

Apparently the last one wasn't as bad as the others but still was not in compliance.

[bababooey]

Have you read or listening to Bill's press conference? He said the Pats keep their balls at the lowest acceptable psi. He said going forward they will make sure to inflate past the minimum so the balls don't dip below the accepted minimum limit after use.

 

In terms of the footballs, it has not been revealed if the Colts balls lost pressure. Only that they were within the acceptable limit when examined which makes sense as Luck likes his balls inflated more than Brady. If the Pats balls were right at the minimum than it stands to reason that all of them would have lost air and be below the range. I agree with you that if all the balls are the same amount (2lbs) under than something is fishy here but as you have said before, the NFL has to prove the tampering. Brady is going to speak today at 3:45 p.m. EST. Bill basically handed this mess off to him so he must have insights into this.

 

FYI - word here is the Pats org is very upset at Brady and that he may have been careless with his prep. Not sure if that is just a rumor or a way to deflect off of Bill but that is what the scuttle is here.

 

So much for Kravitz wanting Kraft to fire Bill, eh? lol.

That's a lot of IF's right there, based on your guesses on what Luck likes his balls at. Also you are very naive if you believe a word of Bill's press conference. 40 years in the league and he doesn't know the process for game balls but knows every minute detail of the practice balls. Either way 2 full square pounds below compliance? Obviously saying they keep them at the minimum is an excuse but TWO FULL SQUARE POUNDS in less than a half in normal weather? Are you kidding me?

 

Edit; either way if Luck likes his balls at the highest you could have, it would mean all his balls would have dipped 1 pound below the minimum. Yet, they were all in compliance.

[jvan1973]

Have you read or listening to Bill's press conference? He said the Pats keep their balls at the lowest acceptable psi. He said going forward they will make sure to inflate past the minimum so the balls don't dip below the accepted minimum limit after use.

In terms of the footballs, it has not been revealed if the Colts balls lost pressure. Only that they were within the acceptable limit when examined which makes sense as Luck likes his balls inflated more than Brady. If the Pats balls were right at the minimum than it stands to reason that all of them would have lost air and be below the range. I agree with you that if all the balls are the same amount (2lbs) under than something is fishy here but as you have said before, the NFL has to prove the tampering. Brady is going to speak today at 3:45 p.m. EST. Bill basically handed this mess off to him so he must have insights into this.

FYI - word here is the Pats org is very upset at Brady and that he may have been careless with his prep. Not sure if that is just a rumor or a way to deflect off of Bill but that is what the scuttle is here.

So much for Kravitz wanting Kraft to fire Bill, eh? lol.

can i get a link on what psi luck likes his balls at?

Yet another hole in your theory, if the colts balls were in spec that means they lost less than 1 psi. not the 2 psi 11 of the pats balls lost

[Narcosys]

Have you read or listening to Bill's press conference? He said the Pats keep their balls at the lowest acceptable psi. He said going forward they will make sure to inflate past the minimum so the balls don't dip below the accepted minimum limit after use.

In terms of the footballs, it has not been revealed if the Colts balls lost pressure. Only that they were within the acceptable limit when examined which makes sense as Luck likes his balls inflated more than Brady. If the Pats balls were right at the minimum than it stands to reason that all of them would have lost air and be below the range. I agree with you that if all the balls are the same amount (2lbs) under than something is fishy here but as you have said before, the NFL has to prove the tampering. Brady is going to speak today at 3:45 p.m. EST. Bill basically handed this mess off to him so he must have insights into this.

FYI - word here is the Pats org is very upset at Brady and that he may have been careless with his prep. Not sure if that is just a rumor or a way to deflect off of Bill but that is what the scuttle is here.

So much for Kravitz wanting Kraft to fire Bill, eh? lol.

He said he believes. Which if he knows for sure to be true then he's lying about saying he didn't handle them or know anything about them. He said himself he didn't know the range. And that's the best and only answer he can give so that they can allow the most wiggle room for the temperature arguments. Wouldn't expect anything less from a liar.

[pgt_rob]

 

If anyone wants a break, NFL Lip reading 2015 is here

 

HOLLA, WE GON BALL!

[JerodMayo51]

No matter what the outcome, no matter what the league finds and hands down, This Super Bowl is tarnished, The league has another black mark, and it is all at the hands of the Pats. That is for certain.

There is no acceptable reason, explanation, or excuse that makes any of this go away.

If the Pats win, Brady will go down as the greatest QB of all time. It won't matter what some bitter Colts fans perception is, the Colts got humiliated in a Championship game so now they're deflecting the attention away from that shalacking with this.

The SB is tarnished, lol.. whatever it takes to make you get over the loss, the Pats are getting ready to fly to Arizona and compete for another Super Bowl.. and the is nothing you can do about it.

[Cynjin]

 

FYI - word here is the Pats org is very upset at Brady and that he may have been careless with his prep. Not sure if that is just a rumor or a way to deflect off of Bill but that is what the scuttle is here.

 

So much for Kravitz wanting Kraft to fire Bill, eh? lol.

Okay so Bill can stay.

Fire Brady instead. ;)

[amfootball]

can i get a link on what psi luck likes his balls at?

Yet another hole in your theory, if the colts balls were in spec that means they lost less than 1 psi. not the 2 psi 11 of the pats balls lost

They mentioned Luck's psi on the radio here.

 

I agree about the balls. That is my point. IF the Pats balls all lost the same amount and it was 2 psi than Brady has some big time explaining to do which he will at 3:45.

[bababooey]

If the Pats win, Brady will go down as the greatest QB of all time. It won't matter what some bitter Colts fans perception is, the Colts got humiliated in a Championship game so now they're deflecting the attention away from that shalacking with this.

The SB is tarnished, lol.. whatever it takes to make you get over the loss, the Pats are getting ready to fly to Arizona and compete for another Super Bowl.. and the is nothing you can do about it.

Could not disagree more. Even the most casual NFL fan will know he has been very good for a long time but cheating follows him, his coach, and his team.

[jvan1973]

If the Pats win, Brady will go down as the greatest QB of all time. It won't matter what some bitter Colts fans perception is, the Colts got humiliated in a Championship game so now they're deflecting the attention away from that shalacking with this.

The SB is tarnished, lol.. whatever it takes to make you get over the loss, the Pats are getting ready to fly to Arizona and compete for another Super Bowl.. and the is nothing you can do about it.

even if they won Montana still be regarded as the best ever.

[bababooey]

They mentioned Luck's psi on the radio here.

 

I agree about the balls. That is my point. IF the Pats balls all lost the same amount and it was 2 psi than Brady has some big time explaining to do which he will at 3:45.

Guys they mentioned Luck's preferred psi on the radio here that settles it.

[amfootball]

Okay so Bill can stay.

Fire Brady instead. ;)

Yeah, looks that way. But I have been saying from the get go. This is ON Brady. He needs to explain, not Bill. We shall have more answers in about 2 and a half hours ...

[jvan1973]

They mentioned Luck's psi on the radio here.

I agree about the balls. That is my point. IF the Pats balls all lost the same amount and it was 2 psi than Brady has some big time explaining to do which he will at 3:45.

oh they mentioned his preference in Boston but not in Indiana or any other outlet? seems totally reasonable

[bababooey]

oh they mentioned his preference in Boston but not in Indiana or any other outlet? seems totally reasonable

I mean they do intercept Luck a lot so they can test the balls. This story holds up. Definitely just the weather not tampering at all.

[jvan1973]

Yeah, looks that way. But I have been saying from the get go. This is ON Brady. He needs to explain, not Bill. We shall have more answers in about 2 and a half hours ...

the league held payton responsible for his players. they held the GM responsible as well. Who is the gm in new England?

[amfootball]

oh they mentioned his preference in Boston but not in Indiana or any other outlet? seems totally reasonable

I have only been listening to the radio so no link. It was a caller from Indiana who said it. All he said was Luck like his balls inflated big. I am sure it is somewhere out there.

[bababooey]

The Pats should move to London, a win win for football fans in both countries and puts a light chuckle on the whole revolutionary war thing.

[jvan1973]

I have only been listening to the radio so no link. It was a caller from Indiana who said it. All he said was Luck like his balls inflated big. I am sure it is somewhere out there.

, so a random caller mentioned it. even better

[bababooey]

I have only been listening to the radio so no link. It was a caller from Indiana who said it. All he said was Luck like his balls inflated big. I am sure it is somewhere out there.

Guys the caller from Indiana knows Luck's psi preference it's settled now and in no way could the Patriots have intentionally tampered with their footballs while the Colts balls remained the same psi all game.

[amfootball]

the league held payton responsible for his players. they held the GM responsible as well. Who is the gm in new England?

Apples and hammers as you would say. There was a hit ring going on in New Orleans. We are talking about the psi of game balls that are only handled by the QB and the equipment manager. I still think Bill gets fined or maybe Kraft because you have to hold them accountable for a rule violation whether they knew about it or not but no draft pick or suspension I would think. I think this comes down on Brady or perhaps the league. What Brady says is crucial to this whole thing. He can shed the most light.