Some thoughts

[corgi]

Unprepared..........

Again

You can prepare all you want and have the greatest game plan ever, but turnovers and injuries can derail the greatest plans. Execution and terrible O-Line play were the issue not preparation.

[tomloge]

Calling to blow this team up and only retain Luck and Hilton isn't being realistic is it now? At best it could have been an attempt at humour... 

I wasn't calling to blow the team up.  Don't put words in my mouth.  But they need to improve in a lot of areas, that's for sure.  Had they played anyone but Jacksonville today they would've been slaughtered.  

[SteelCityColt]

they really look like crap. Luck looks completely lost or frustrated. I guess frustrated is more appropriate. They're now sinking to the level of their competition. Time to rebuild, except for quarterback. And Hilton

So what were you saying here if not blow the team up?

[Curveball]

Every team has flaws.  The team with the fewest flaws usually wins.  It's just that simple.

[Curveball]

No, not related to Shipley. And you're foolish if you really believe it was a "marginal" upgrade. He was the best rated C I do believe by PFF or whatever that rank system people post on here is.

 

I think it's safe to say that you're not a decision maker.

[RomanianColtsFan]

I also get the feeling this team is not getting anywhere this year. In the years past with Manning and last 2 years with Luck I managed to keep the hope alive until we lost in playoffs but not this year. Losing to the better teams in AFC and especially to the Patriots again has been very demoralizing for me as a fan.

For some reason Luck doesn't inspire confidence at all. I don't know what it is but that's how I feel.

[Superman]

I love watching fans meltdown because they're so emotional.

Rebuild? Agreeing with a rebuild? Come on.

Settle down. Babies.

 

We're not even really done with this rebuild. 

[BlueCollarColts]

win 23-3, fans still mad. 

[GoColts8818]

You can prepare all you want and have the greatest game plan ever, but turnovers and injuries can derail the greatest plans. Execution and terrible O-Line play were the issue not preparation.

Exactly, if the line can't block so you can run the ball and the QB is getting hit as soon as he snaps the ball it doesn't matter what game plan you have you can't execute it.

 

As for the turnovers that was much more a product of players being careless with the football than it was bad play calls.  That's on the players not the coaches. 

[GoColts8818]

win 23-3, fans still mad. 

a lot of these posts were made during the first half when the players were playing extremely poorly. 

[loudnproudcolt]

I agree we are not elite yet, but we are so spoiled here. First Peyton. Then we get Luck, and a season with 35M in deadcap space, and the season before was 2 wins, and we go 11-5. I know Pagano had leukemia, but he gets some credit along with Arians. Second season, 11-5 again, with a first place schedule. This season, 7-4 so far, and there have been games we looked bad, but we crushed Cincy, who is a very good team. We beat Baltimore, also very good team. And for everyone who thinks winning is so easy due to our division, why are we consistently at the top? Every win is tough .Kansas City had looked great. Remember how they crushed N.E., and just beat Seattle and looked great. What happens next, they lost to Oakland. The NFL is fickle, and on any day anything can happen. We have added some nice pieces, but please look where we were at a little over two years ago and be realistic. We should be ecstatic to come so far in 2 years.

 

Remember New York Giants 2 SB's, they were 10-6 and 9-7 going into the playoffs. Anything can happen. I don't expect it, but at least we have a winning team. Think about all the franchises who would love to in our shoes, and maybe the complaints will be a little more muted. Of course, Fan comes from fanatic!

[Deano1818]

There seems to be three types of fans on this board

1) Max optimist

Everything is FINE!...... Disagree and insult anyone that brings up an issue with the team

2) realist

We ARE good but have some significant issues

3) gloom and doom

We are horrible and all is lost over every bad game........ Hand wringing

I am not calling out anyone on this......... Just making some observations

I appreciate the win. I truly do.

We are an upper tier team in the NFL

But......... I think everyone is tired of "just" going to the playoffs with this team and losing in the first or

Second game.... Right?

I will say again, we are an upper tier team in the NFL

But......... If we play our normal UNPREPARED first half against a true playoff team, our odds of

winning drop like a stone.

Some of the teams that made us look like pee wee teams, haven't done as well vs other teams

We weren't prepared, they were

Pags is a rah rah coach that the players love. That is a good start. But.....We may need to change the

Assistants to get their individual houses in order.... Rah rah is proving to NOT be enough

I hope we can get on a streak where the machine is humming along.

Deano

[Brent]

Irsay needs to fire Pagano and Griggson. Irsay would be very good at making personnel decisions and coaching the team.

[Deano1818]

Irsay needs to fire Pagano and Griggson. Irsay would be very good at making personnel decisions and coaching the team.

Griggson is running 50/50 in my book

I was expecting more from someone who has experience with the OL

He has swung and missed on much the OL and some of the defense

I am still trying to understand if the decision to let Satele play was forced on Pags or Pags made

The decision.

Please understand, Irsay pulled one of the worst trades in NFL history by giving up 2 first round picks for Fredd Young......... Another disaster was the Jeff George trade...... An all pro OL a rising star WR and the low pick for a known bad attitude player

He goes with his gut too much....... His gut has proven to be wrong

I will say this...... I went to a Dolphins /Colts game in Miami in a Colts jersey, and I was standing in

The front row. Irsay walked over to me and said "Are you a colts fan?"

He handed me a signed $100 bill......... Did I keep it? Heck no.

[Jay Kirk]

6 easy wins?

First, there are no easy wins in the NFL. Period. There's a reason there's a different champ every year.

Second, the Colts have quality wins over the Bengals and Ravens.

Third, anyone can win the Super Bowl if they make the Playoffs. (ie. Giants, Ravens just to name a couple recently.)

Fourth, we have a QB that can carry a team. That goes a long way in the NFL.

So saying they don't have a chance is ridiculous, but that's just your opinion, man.

Have to agree ,this team can achieve anything. Its not about having a great game plan at all , its about executing the one you do have. Blaming Pagano is ludicrous but some folks always have to have a scapegoat or someone to blame. Football is a team sport ,you win as a team loose as a team. Sure you have to have talent , but without mental toughness and execution you have nothing. This team barring catastrophic injury woes will be ready come playoffs. Im with you on this and the opinion you spoke of just wasn't a good one or well thought out.

[Old Colt]

If Colts lose to Jags, then we are done this season

if they don't start scoring TD's in the red zone they are in big trouble.  Texans, Cowboys and browns will be a challenge.  Cannot keep settling for  FG's...

[Jim H.]

So a winning percentage of 0.682% is unacceptable now? Heck even looking at just the outside division games .533 isn't anywhere near the worst percentage. 

Actually, I believe it's 68.2%  :^)

[House]

We're not even really done with this rebuild.

Wait. Are you telling me that our 3rd year QB, and our overall young team, aren't as good as established dominant franchises yet?

I don't understand.......

[SteelCityColt]

Actually, I believe it's 68.2%  :^)

 

Yeah... that was kinda dumb of me! 

[amfootball]

We're not even really done with this rebuild. 

Honest question - how long are you giving Grigs and Pagano with this rebuild? When in your mind will it be complete? When the Colts win a Super Bowl? When they beat the Patriots?

 

I ask because Carroll and Schneider came to Seattle in 2010 and began building their monster. They take Wilson same year as Luck and one year later won the Super Bowl and are contending to get back this year.

 

Do you feel the monster is half way at this point? Three quarters? What in your mind is the determining factor when you say the rebuild is complete?

[Smash Mouth]

We're not even really done with this rebuild. 

We have completely lost sight of the fact that 3yrs ago the roster was in a shambles and we were 2-14.  But there are some disturbing trends on this team:

• The team can be alarmingly undisciplined on both sides of the ball.  The OL misses blocks as if they are in high school and the Colts can be very careless with the football
• I saw some really bad tackling at times.  Thankfully that Jags offense is one of the worst in the league
• Emotionally they were unprepared to play.  I would have thought that after the NE debacle they would step on the throats of the Jags right from the beginning
• I also don't like the development of Moncrief.  Let the kid play.  He just looks like a much more dynamic athlete than Nicks.  To Pagano's credit making the move to Boom was the right one.  He has the burst that TR doesn't have.

[Gavin]

So Im sitting here this morning rewatching the game on DVR(After missing it live) and I took notice of something at the 6:46 mark of the 3rd Quarter on a delayed hand off to Richardson...He patiently waited for Reitz to lead block for him and once Richardson got to the 2nd level he showed BURST!.....not elite but a very noticeable burst.... NO dancing....Just tuck and run! A small step perhaps and it was not a huge run...12 yards and he still got ankle tackled BUT I loved how decisive and patient he was on that run

[Jay Kirk]

So Im sitting here this morning rewatching the game on DVR(After missing it live) and I took notice of something at the 6:46 mark of the 3rd Quarter on a delayed hand off to Richardson...He patiently waited for Reitz to lead block for him and once Richardson got to the 2nd level he showed BURST!.....not elite but a very noticeable burst.... NO dancing....Just tuck and run! A small step perhaps and it was not a huge run...12 yards and he still got ankle tackled BUT I loved how decisive and patient he was on that run

He gets in trouble with the hop and lateral movement, if he just tucked and ran he would be ok.

[jimmy g]

Just funny how you brush it off as panic. Slows starts and blowouts against top teams..... Hardly panic, more concern & facing reality. This is an average team due to terrible coaching decisions that have hindered/held back this team and it's QB

But hey, if you're satisfied with being an average team, that's your business

I've been watching/ loving 'my' Colts since the 1950s. I can't affect them, I'm not an owner or manager. I understand that they are Entertainment, not Life.

I think most of their problems stem from their young and hurting OLine, IMO. Whoever controls the line controls the game.

[jimmy g]

Irsay needs to fire Pagano and Griggson. Irsay would be very good at making personnel decisions and coaching the team.

apparently you've forgotten; he tried that in the 1980s and failed. Had to hire Tobin to salvage his mess

[PeterBowman]

here's my thought

 

 

why is it I only see a lot of these posters when the team is playing badly?

[PeterBowman]

I've been watching/ loving 'my' Colts since the 1950s. I can't affect them, I'm not an owner or manager. I understand that they are Entertainment, not Life.

I think most of their problems stem from their young and hurting OLine, IMO. Whoever controls the line controls the game.

this is very true....other than Castonzo and Gosder, the starters are either rookies or 2nd year players

[Superman]

Honest question - how long are you giving Grigs and Pagano with this rebuild? When in your mind will it be complete? When the Colts win a Super Bowl? When they beat the Patriots?

 

I ask because Carroll and Schneider came to Seattle in 2010 and began building their monster. They take Wilson same year as Luck and one year later won the Super Bowl and are contending to get back this year.

 

Do you feel the monster is half way at this point? Three quarters? What in your mind is the determining factor when you say the rebuild is complete?

 

To answer your question, I think expectations for next season should be much higher. We ought to be able to fix most of our issues this offseason, between some high draft picks (we haven't had two top 60 picks since 2012) and a couple of free agents. I don't think beating the Patriots or winning a Super Bowl is the mark of a complete team. How we match up with the Pats can be a measuring stick, but that's not really the measure of a good/great team. 

 

To this point, I think Grigson and Pagano have done a good job, despite some mistakes. But every team makes mistakes.

 

As for Seattle, there are several differences between us and the Seahawks. For instance, since 2002, the Colts have had only one top 20 draft pick, and that was used on a QB. In 2010 alone, the Seahawks had two top 20 picks, plus three other players who started for their Super Bowl team. The Colts only have five active players this season who were even on the roster prior to 2012, and two are kickers. Even setting aside those differences, the Seahawks are two years ahead of us. Their head coach has a lot more experience running a team than Pagano. The only real similarity is that they drafted their QB the same time we did. The rest of their team has a two year head start, along with better draft position every year prior to 2013. And like I mentioned, they've made their mistakes as well. As bad as the Richardson trade is, the Harvin trade and contract is worse.

 

Understand, my position is to be viewed in comparison with people who are suggesting that we should be tearing this team down. It's absolutely ridiculous. But that doesn't mean that we don't have work to do.

[Superman]

Wait. Are you telling me that our 3rd year QB, and our overall young team, aren't as good as established dominant franchises yet?

I don't understand.......

 

Weird, huh?

[lennymoore24]

I think you have to look at what Grigson has done with the Colts in different phases.  When he took over, unfortunately we had a lot of holes.  As Grigson has said, his background and love is in college scouting and drafting.  He really had little choice but to sign a bunch of mid level NFL free agents to plug holes.  I don't know that his expectation is they are all long term solutions.  So I think Grigs is done with phase 1.  Phase 2 will be now he will put a higher premium on draft picks and starting to replace the free agents we got with draft choices for more a long term solution.  I could be wrong, but that seems like the plan.  After all, what choice does he have? I know there is a lot of clamoring for big names in free agency, but I don't think it would give us enough players to fix all the holes.  And we still have holes, but at least he has average guys in place at worst.

As far as the OLine goes. I think Mewhort has been good.  Ac is good.  It is a stretch to have two rookies and a second year guard and expect great things from them. Harrison and Mewhort havne't had an off season to get stronger and get more comfortable.

 

Probably my biggest gripe with the Colts is they seem to have inherited Jim Caldwells inability to change strategy based on what is going on in the game.  They just keep doing the same thing and I guess hope things will be better.  Where Belichick changes every quarter or series.

[Superman]

 

We have completely lost sight of the fact that 3yrs ago the roster was in a shambles and we were 2-14.  But there are some disturbing trends on this team:

• The team can be alarmingly undisciplined on both sides of the ball.  The OL misses blocks as if they are in high school and the Colts can be very careless with the football
• I saw some really bad tackling at times.  Thankfully that Jags offense is one of the worst in the league
• Emotionally they were unprepared to play.  I would have thought that after the NE debacle they would step on the throats of the Jags right from the beginning
• I also don't like the development of Moncrief.  Let the kid play.  He just looks like a much more dynamic athlete than Nicks.  To Pagano's credit making the move to Boom was the right one.  He has the burst that TR doesn't have.

 

Just some nitpicks:

 

I don't think the team was emotionally unprepared. I think two players made five mistakes that cost us several possessions and probably 14-17 points. Sloppy offense doesn't equal being unprepared. Everyone on defense bounced back and played well, except for Josh Gordy. And while there was some bad tackling, the Jags only had one good possession all game, and they were already down 20 points by then. Their offense hardly made any plays, and despite the sloppiness, this game was never in doubt. 

 

Also, on Moncrief... He played 30 snaps. Nicks, 28. Moncrief had four targets and a carry. Nicks had one target. It's happening.

[amfootball]

To answer your question, I think expectations for next season should be much higher. We ought to be able to fix most of our issues this offseason, between some high draft picks (we haven't had two top 60 picks since 2012) and a couple of free agents. I don't think beating the Patriots or winning a Super Bowl is the mark of a complete team. How we match up with the Pats can be a measuring stick, but that's not really the measure of a good/great team. 

 

To this point, I think Grigson and Pagano have done a good job, despite some mistakes. But every team makes mistakes.

 

As for Seattle, there are several differences between us and the Seahawks. For instance, since 2002, the Colts have had only one top 20 draft pick, and that was used on a QB. In 2010 alone, the Seahawks had two top 20 picks, plus three other players who started for their Super Bowl team. The Colts only have five active players this season who were even on the roster prior to 2012, and two are kickers. Even setting aside those differences, the Seahawks are two years ahead of us. Their head coach has a lot more experience running a team than Pagano. The only real similarity is that they drafted their QB the same time we did. The rest of their team has a two year head start, along with better draft position every year prior to 2013. And like I mentioned, they've made their mistakes as well. As bad as the Richardson trade is, the Harvin trade and contract is worse.

 

Understand, my position is to be viewed in comparison with people who are suggesting that we should be tearing this team down. It's absolutely ridiculous. But that doesn't mean that we don't have work to do.

Appreciate you taking the time to put that all down. Your points and analysis seem reasonable. You will reach the playoffs for a third consecutive year and second year as divisional champs so not sure how much there is to complain about in year 3.

 

I agree about Seattle. I know it is not an apples to apples comparison but I do think in the cap/FA era there is more opportunity to change a losing franchise into a winning one in a short period of time and you don't necessarily need high draft picks to do it.  As an example of what I am talking about, in the off-season prior to 2001, Bill rounded out a 5-11 Patriots team with a bunch of low cost FAs which all contributed highly to the SB year - Brian Cox, Larry Izzo, Roman Phifer, Mike Vrabel, Anthony Pleasant, Antowain Smith,David Patten. While having high picks is certainly a nice luxury to have, the Patriots were able to make the push they had because of these signings. My point being that there is more than one way to skin a cat to build the monster.

[Superman]

Appreciate you taking the time to put that all down. Your points and analysis seem reasonable. You will reach the playoffs for a third consecutive year and second year as divisional champs so not sure how much there is to complain about in year 3.

 

I agree about Seattle. I know it is not an apples to apples comparison but I do think in the cap/FA era there is more opportunity to change a losing franchise into a winning one in a short period of time and you don't necessarily need high draft picks to do it.  As an example of what I am talking about, in the off-season prior to 2001, Bill rounded out a 5-11 Patriots team with a bunch of low cost FAs which all contributed highly to the SB year - Brian Cox, Larry Izzo, Roman Phifer, Mike Vrabel, Anthony Pleasant, Antowain Smith,David Patten. While having high picks is certainly a nice luxury to have, the Patriots were able to make the push they had because of these signings. My point being that there is more than one way to skin a cat to build the monster.

 

That early Pats team had a lot of established talent on it. Richard Seymour was the 6th pick that year. You already had Bruschi (he wasn't a low cost free agent; he was a former draft pick), Ty Law (a former first rounder), Lawyer Milloy (a second rounder), Tebucky Jones (first rounder), McGinest (first rounder), Damien Woody (first rounder), etc. That's already six vets that were there and playing a significant role prior to the Super Bowl year. We don't have six players active right now from prior to 2012.

 

That team also had a lot of luck. Brady panning out was not conventional. The Pats got big breaks in the Raiders game in the playoffs. Then Brady didn't finish the AFCCG, and thankfully, Bledsoe was able to make some plays, and those highly drafted safeties got some picks to put the game away.

 

The team that Belichick took over had more talent than the roster that Grigson took over, most of which is gone after two seasons. And there are really only two players that Grigson got rid of or let walk that have made any significant impact on their new teams: Jerry Hughes (who was considered a bust), and Antoine Bethea (who was terrible the past two seasons, particularly in coverage). The cupboards were bare; it's an amazing feat that we were able to win 11 games in 2012, and at the time, most people considered 2014 as the first real season that the Colts should be expecting a playoff spot. We also changed defenses, something that Belichick didn't have to do. And we had $40m in dead cap space. And the 2000 Pats still only won 5 games, with a veteran QB.

 

As far as I'm concerned, this team is ahead of schedule. I'm not ignoring the mistakes that have been made, or the work that still needs to be done. But if anyone had suggested in August 2012 that the Colts would win 11 games that year, win a playoff game the next year, and be on their way to a third straight playoff win and a second straight division title this year, they'd have been laughed out of the building. Yet, you scroll up and see comments like "Irsay needs to fire Grigson and Pagano," or "Luck doesn't inspire confidence," or "time to rebuild," or "if you're satisfied with being an average team," etc., etc. And this is in thread after an easy win.

 

It's gag inducing. 

[TrueColt!]

they really look like crap. Luck looks completely lost or frustrated. I guess frustrated is more appropriate. They're now sinking to the level of their competition. Time to rebuild, except for quarterback. And Hilton

[TrueColt!]

Yup!

[amfootball]

That early Pats team had a lot of established talent on it. Richard Seymour was the 6th pick that year. You already had Bruschi (he wasn't a low cost free agent; he was a former draft pick), Ty Law (a former first rounder), Lawyer Milloy (a second rounder), Tebucky Jones (first rounder), McGinest (first rounder), Damien Woody (first rounder), etc. That's already six vets that were there and playing a significant role prior to the Super Bowl year. We don't have six players active right now from prior to 2012.

 

That team also had a lot of luck. Brady panning out was not conventional. The Pats got big breaks in the Raiders game in the playoffs. Then Brady didn't finish the AFCCG, and thankfully, Bledsoe was able to make some plays, and those highly drafted safeties got some picks to put the game away.

 

The team that Belichick took over had more talent than the roster that Grigson took over, most of which is gone after two seasons. And there are really only two players that Grigson got rid of or let walk that have made any significant impact on their new teams: Jerry Hughes (who was considered a bust), and Antoine Bethea (who was terrible the past two seasons, particularly in coverage). The cupboards were bare; it's an amazing feat that we were able to win 11 games in 2012, and at the time, most people considered 2014 as the first real season that the Colts should be expecting a playoff spot. We also changed defenses, something that Belichick didn't have to do. And we had $40m in dead cap space. And the 2000 Pats still only won 5 games, with a veteran QB.

 

As far as I'm concerned, this team is ahead of schedule. I'm not ignoring the mistakes that have been made, or the work that still needs to be done. But if anyone had suggested in August 2012 that the Colts would win 11 games that year, win a playoff game the next year, and be on their way to a third straight playoff win and a second straight division title this year, they'd have been laughed out of the building. Yet, you scroll up and see comments like "Irsay needs to fire Grigson and Pagano," or "Luck doesn't inspire confidence," or "time to rebuild," or "if you're satisfied with being an average team," etc., etc. And this is in thread after an easy win.

 

It's gag inducing. 

Part of it is the Super Bowl or bust mentality. And why coaches are fired at a ridiculous rate these days. No one has any patience.

 

I think for the Colts you got the big piece right off the bat with Luck so the expectations were big from day one. Also, Polian had such an unbelievable rate of success for so many years that for the Colts not to be the first or second best team in the conference is somewhat unfamiliar to the fanbase especially when the two tops teams are headed by QBs in their late 30s.

 

I always say, what is the alternative? You get rid of Grigson and Pagano and replace them with whom? And then start the rebuild all over. The team is headed in the right direction which can't be said for half the teams in the league.

[Coffeedrinker]

Pagano is 14-2 vs the division, 16-14 against everyone else. It's unacceptable, the players play hard for him but he's not a good x's and o's coach and the team is never prepared. I don't think we'll ever win the SB with Pagano as the coach.

This is an interesting stat and one I had not looked at.  I think this is the best argument I've seen that the coaches share a good portion of the blame when the team struggles.  Because if you look at the talent level... it's there.  here is my list for players on the Colts that would start for most (20 or more) NFL teams based on their play this year.

 

Luck

Hilton, Wayne

Fleener, Allen

AC, (I feel GC and Mewhort would start for about half).

Redding, RJF

Walden

Davis, Toler, Butler (starting nickle) and Adams

PattyMac and AV.

 

To me, that shows the roster is not an issue.

[Superman]

Part of it is the Super Bowl or bust mentality. And why coaches are fired at a ridiculous rate these days. No one has any patience.

 

I think for the Colts you got the big piece right off the bat with Luck so the expectations were big from day one. Also, Polian had such an unbelievable rate of success for so many years that for the Colts not to be the first or second best team in the conference is somewhat unfamiliar to the fanbase especially when the two tops teams are headed by QBs in their late 30s.

 

I always say, what is the alternative? You get rid of Grigson and Pagano and replace them with whom? And then start the rebuild all over. The team is headed in the right direction which can't be said for half the teams in the league.

 

I agree, but the expectations weren't big from day one. Most people expected us to suck in 2012, from the media to the fans. People on this very website mocked Grigson and Pagano for daring to even mention the playoffs. When we traded a second rounder for Vontae Davis, people cried and cried about us trading away an early second rounder, because 'it's basically a late first!!!' Next thing you know, we're 11-5 and people are crying because we're not dominating every team every week. 

 

I keep talking about perspective -- and have been since the offseason -- because it's so clearly lacking in many respects.

[Superman]

This is an interesting stat and one I had not looked at.  I think this is the best argument I've seen that the coaches share a good portion of the blame when the team struggles.  Because if you look at the talent level... it's there.  here is my list for players on the Colts that would start for most (20 or more) NFL teams based on their play this year.

 

Luck

Hilton, Wayne

Fleener, Allen

AC, (I feel GC and Mewhort would start for about half).

Redding, RJF

Walden

Davis, Toler, Butler (starting nickle) and Adams

PattyMac and AV.

 

To me, that shows the roster is not an issue.

 

I don't follow the logic. Accepting your breakdown as fact (which is another discussion), how does 17 players prove that the roster isn't an issue?

[Deano1818]

The answer isn't wholesale changes..... It just isn't

We come out flat in almost every game.

The other team seems to be ready for us..... We aren't ready for them

Week after week after week

If anything, maybe more time on prepping for opponents.

Maybe we were spoiled with Peyton. He figured out most people by the 2nd or 3rd series

Luck isn't there yet and it appears that no one on the coaching staff has this skill either