Carson Palmer carted off field

[NewColtsFan]

Ain't got nothing to do with that, Chet.

 

He's NOT a good coach.

 

Gee.....  I was offering you your only legitimate argument.

 

Because the whole "he's NOT a good coach" thing is nonsense.....

 

He's taken a disorganized and undisciplined team and he's doing a very nice job molding them into a very good team.

 

And it's right there on the field for everyone to see.....   even you.

 

Back to you, Bob.......

[corgi]

Have you seen the players that have missed time do to injuries for the Lions?

Yeah, and your point? Injuries happen. That has nothing to do with being a good coach. I also remember the players that missed time for the Colts when he was head coach and we ended up with the number one pick. Lets wait until the Lions accomplish something at the end of an entire season until we declare Caldwell a good coach.

 

The evidence is to the contrary.......

No it's really not. He took over a team with Calvin Johnson and a really good defense. Factor in Golden Tate and Reggie Bush when healthy and all he has to do is show up.

[B~Town]

Yeah, and your point? Injuries happen. That has nothing to do with being a good coach. I also remember the players that missed time for the Colts when he was head coach and we ended up with the number one pick. Lets wait until the Lions accomplish something at the end of an entire season until we declare Caldwell a good coach.

 

No it's really not. He took over a team with Calvin Johnson and a really good defense. Factor in Golden Tate and Reggie Bush when healthy and all he has to do is show up.

That same team went what was in 7-9 last year with pretty much the same roster . He is doing a fine job as coach

[ColtsBlueFL]

not sure how potent the Chargers were

Not sure about the Palmer injury

 

It's perception, I guess.  I can point out Marty Schottenheimer's years there building that team into a winner, along with the memory of his Drew Brees led team crushing our 2005 team when we were 13 - 0 at the time. (we were down 16 - 0 midway through 3rd quarter) -

 

 

But Marty couldn't win in the playoffs.  So in with Norv Turner (who took that team he inherited and knocked the Colts out in the playoffs 2 years consecutively in 2007 and 2008) who then drove that nice vehicle over a couple years into being a dull winter beater auto.

 

 

Many here are still afraid to play the Chargers, especially in post season.  IMO, they were potent, and dangerous.

[corgi]

That same team went what was in 7-9 last year with pretty much the same roster . He is doing a fine job as coach

The season isn't over. They've beaten two teams with a winning record and they've lost to two teams with losing records.

[NewColtsFan]

Yeah, and your point? Injuries happen. That has nothing to do with being a good coach. I also remember the players that missed time for the Colts when he was head coach and we ended up with the number one pick. Lets wait until the Lions accomplish something at the end of an entire season until we declare Caldwell a good coach.

 

No it's really not. He took over a team with Calvin Johnson and a really good defense. Factor in Golden Tate and Reggie Bush when healthy and all he has to do is show up.

 

Seriously......   the part of your post I just put into bold is one of the most embarrassing things written here.

 

It's completely beneath you.    Contact the moderators and tell them to delete your post.     That's embarrassing.

 

And it kills your argument.

[PrincetonTiger]

It's perception, I guess.  I can point out Marty Schottenheimer's years there building that team into a winner, along with the memory of his Drew Brees led team crushing our 2005 team when we were 13 - 0 at the time. (we were down 16 - 0 midway through 3rd quarter) -

 

 

But Marty couldn't win in the playoffs.  So in with Norv Turner (who took that team he inherited and knocked the Colts out in the playoffs 2 years consecutively in 2007 and 2008) who then drove that nice vehicle over a couple years into being a dull winter beater auto.

 

 

Many here are still afraid to play the Chargers, especially in post season.  IMO, they were potent, and dangerous.

I never saw them as a threat but I grew up a KC fan

[Dr. Guildo]

The deal he signed recently jinxed him.

[Solon]

Can he pull a Philip Rivers?

[crazycolt1]

Ain't got nothing to do with that, Chet.

 

He's NOT a good coach.

So now you know more and have more insight than the bigger part of the NFL? Take the super bowl loss away and Cauldwell has very good numbers. He not only has a super bowl ring from the Colts but from the Ravens as well. Look at what Flacco did under Cauldwell's leadership. Just because your opinion of him is bad don't make it so.

[NFLfan]

It's perception, I guess. I can point out Marty Schottenheimer's years there building that team into a winner, along with the memory of his Drew Brees led team crushing our 2005 team when we were 13 - 0 at the time. (we were down 16 - 0 midway through 3rd quarter) -

But Marty couldn't win in the playoffs. So in with Norv Turner (who took that team he inherited and knocked the Colts out in the playoffs 2 years consecutively in 2007 and 2008) who then drove that nice vehicle over a couple years into being a dull winter beater auto.

Many here are still afraid to play the Chargers, especially in post season. IMO, they were potent, and dangerous.

The Chargers' offensive weapons were indeed very potent. Even their back-up players like Michael Turner and Darren Sproles were feared. They underachieved under Norv.

I am rooting for the Lions and Coach Caldwell...except when they play the Vikings.

[SteelCityColt]

Seems like it's the same knee as it was before. My memory is hazy as I wasn't really in to the NFL so much back then but I think it was a pretty bad injury originally. I'm also fairly sure this was just after signing an extension with the Bengals.

[Valpo2004]

That sucks for the Cardinals, they would have been a contender with Palmer.  Hopefully Stanton can maybe at least salvage a playoff run.

[amfootball]

He very well could have learned from his time in Indy.  Pete Carroll was very unspectacular during his time in the NFL before coming to Seattle.  He is also on a team with one of the best defenses in the league and the best WR in the league when he's healthy.

Yeah that 14-2 season was awful losing the SB in the final minutes. \sarcasm

[Tsarquise]

Caldwell seems to be a pretty decent coach... Especially when you consider that we went to the Super Bowl in his first year... Something that took Dungy his whole career to do. He also had the Colts playing very competitive with peasant QBs in 2011. He then goes to Baltimore and he helps them win the Super Bowl. Now he is in Detroit and they have had more success than ever.

[Dustin]

Right but many flop at some point though when they lose players like Calvin Johnson, Reggie Bush

Reggie Bush isn't even that good.

[Valpo2004]

Caldwell seems to be a pretty decent coach... Especially when you consider that we went to the Super Bowl in his first year... Something that took Dungy his whole career to do. He also had the Colts playing very competitive with peasant QBs in 2011. He then goes to Baltimore and he helps them win the Super Bowl. Now he is in Detroit and they have had more success than ever.

 

I really think he was a scapegoat for the terrible 2011 season.  And people didn't seem to like him because he wasn't excitable because they don't understand the value there is to a head coach keeping a "poker face".  It seems like every head coach that has a really good poker face (Like Caldwell) he has legions of haters because they think the Poker face means he doesn't care.  

 

Kirk Ferentz at Iowa get's criticized for the exact same thing.  If you arn't flopping around like Jim Harbaugh then people think you don't care.

 

But I mean the fact that the Lions had Megatron out for like a month and where still winning games says a lot about his coaching.  

[Drewbacca]

Caldwell has been very fortunate to have the record he has.

 

Gift baskets in 3 games vs Saints, Falcons, and Dolphins.

[21isSuperman]

Yeah that 14-2 season was awful losing the SB in the final minutes. \sarcasm

It's easy to win when you have Peyton, just ask John Fox or Tony Dungy

[amfootball]

It's easy to win when you have Peyton, just ask John Fox or Tony Dungy

You say that but look at what Caldwell is doing with the Lions and Dungy was pretty successful with the Bucs prior to Indy or how Arians is doing now in Arizona.

 

I don't know what it is but it seems no matter who coaches the Colts they are just not good enough despite two of them getting you to the bowl and now a third and fourth with Arian and Pagano getting you to the playoffs every year after the org was blown up.

[Defjamz26]

Every time people panic because Palmer is injured, a backup comes in and the Cardinals end up winning. Remember when Logan Thomas came in for Drew Stanton? They'll be fine. The key in an Arians offense is good D, and taking shots down the field. They also have Andre Ellington who can really go off from time to time.

 

All Stanton has to do is hit on a couple strikes down the field (which shouldn't be hard considering the receiving core) and play smart. Turnovers are expected in an Arians offense. The D will take care of everything else. They just probably won't make it to the Superbowl now. Probably knocked out by the Packers in the 2nd round, is my guess.

[corgi]

Seriously......   the part of your post I just put into bold is one of the most embarrassing things written here.

 

It's completely beneath you.    Contact the moderators and tell them to delete your post.     That's embarrassing.

 

And it kills your argument.

 It's not remotely embarrassing because it's true. . Exactly how is it beneath me? He's not a good coach. He'd have to try to lose with the schedule they have and the talent the Lions possess.

 

I'm fine debating you but you're honestly terrible at it. Your counter to my post was attempting to post shame me and that is just infantile and futile. Honestly I don't care what your opinion of Caldwell is, because he's done nothing in my eyes to be labeled anything other than average.I expressed my views of Caldwell and you don't agree (hooray for you) but if you are going to try to come at me to make yourself look anything other than average like Caldwell then I'm going to answer back every time.

 

Now if you want to try again and come up with something other than "you should be embarrassed" then by all means go ahead. Maybe you will come up with some thought provoking little quip that will make me see the error of my ways and I'll agree with you forever more. But as it stands you just seem like someone trying to be a tough guy but ultimately failing and coming across as a big dork.

[21isSuperman]

You say that but look at what Caldwell is doing with the Lions and Dungy was pretty successful with the Bucs prior to Indy or how Arians is doing now in Arizona.

 

I don't know what it is but it seems no matter who coaches the Colts they are just not good enough despite two of them getting you to the bowl and now a third and fourth with Arian and Pagano getting you to the playoffs every year after the org was blown up.

I'm not saying anything bad about Arians or Pagano.  I'm talking about the coaches during the Peyton era.  Regardless, we're taking this thread off topic .  Back to Palmer and the Cardinals

[NewColtsFan]

 It's not remotely embarrassing because it's true. . Exactly how is it beneath me? He's not a good coach. He'd have to try to lose with the schedule they have and the talent the Lions possess.

 

I'm fine debating you but you're honestly terrible at it. Your counter to my post was attempting to post shame me and that is just infantile and futile. Honestly I don't care what your opinion of Caldwell is, because he's done nothing in my eyes to be labeled anything other than average.I expressed my views of Caldwell and you don't agree (hooray for you) but if you are going to try to come at me to make yourself look anything other than average like Caldwell then I'm going to answer back every time.

 

Now if you want to try again and come up with something other than "you should be embarrassed" then by all means go ahead. Maybe you will come up with some thought provoking little quip that will make me see the error of my ways and I'll agree with you forever more. But as it stands you just seem like someone trying to be a tough guy but ultimately failing and coming across as a big dork.

I've got facts.

 

You've got opinion and no facts.

 

That pretty much sums up the difference between us.

 

I was trying to give you a compliment.    When I say "it's beneath you" or "you're better than that"....  it's a compliment.

 

I don't do that with everyone.

 

You've yet to say WHY Caldwell isn't a good coach.    But you keep saying it over and over and over again.

 

Why isn't he?      Until you can answer that,  you've got a serious credibility issue........

[corgi]

I've got facts.

 

You've got opinion and no facts.

 

That pretty much sums up the difference between us.

 

I was trying to give you a compliment.    When I say "it's beneath you" or "you're better than that"....  it's a compliment.

 

I don't do that with everyone.

 

You've yet to say WHY Caldwell isn't a good coach.    But you keep saying it over and over and over again.

 

Why isn't he?      Until you can answer that,  you've got a serious credibility issue........

What facts do you have that he is a good coach? I gave facts already. I said this year the Lions have only beaten two teams with winning records, and they lost to two teams with losing records. The first year he coached in Indianapolis the team could have went 16-0 and went to the Superbowl. How much of that was Caldwell? It was Dungy's team and Manning was kicking butts and taking names. He got out coached in the Superbowl, but to his credit he was a Hank Baskett recovery and a Pierre Garcon drop away from winning a Superbowl. I still do not think that season was a reflection of him being a good coach, but rather being in a good situation.

 

Then when he lost Manning the wheels fell out and he was chased out of town with pitchforks and torches. He did well in Baltimore as an OC, but he wasn't the headcoach which is the position I'm debating. I've not seen any situational coaching, or any games that have made me think the guy is anything but average.

 

His head coaching record is 

• Regular Season 33-24
• Post season 2-2

He is slightly above average in the regular season, and he is .500 in the postseason.

 

His collegiate head coaching record is

NCAA: 26–63 (.292)

Bowl Games: 1–0 (1.000)

 

I said he was average and the numbers pretty much reflect that.

       

[ColtsBlueFL]

Caldwell has been very fortunate to have the record he has.

 

Gift baskets in 3 games vs Saints, Falcons, and Dolphins.

 

You could look at it that way.  Or, you can look at their wins and say the Lions are now winning (finally) some of the games they were always supposed to win.

[NewColtsFan]

 

What facts do you have that he is a good coach? I gave facts already. I said this year the Lions have only beaten two teams with winning records, and they lost to two teams with losing records. The first year he coached in Indianapolis the team could have went 16-0 and went to the Superbowl. How much of that was Caldwell? It was Dungy's team and Manning was kicking butts and taking names. He got out coached in the Superbowl, but to his credit he was a Hank Baskett recovery and a Pierre Garcon drop away from winning a Superbowl. I still do not think that season was a reflection of him being a good coach, but rather being in a good situation.

 

Then when he lost Manning the wheels fell out and he was chased out of town with pitchforks and torches. He did well in Baltimore as an OC, but he wasn't the headcoach which is the position I'm debating. I've not seen any situational coaching, or any games that have made me think the guy is anything but average.

 

His head coaching record is 

• Regular Season 33-24
• Post season 2-2

He is slightly above average in the regular season, and he is .500 in the postseason.

 

His collegiate head coaching record is

NCAA: 26–63 (.292)

Bowl Games: 1–0 (1.000)

 

I said he was average and the numbers pretty much reflect that.

       

 

 

 

No.    You didn't say he was average.    You said he wasn't a good coach.    And you said it multiple times.

 

Your facts are that he's only won a few games vs. teams with a winning record,  and he's lost to teams with a losing record.

 

Hmmmmm??      You know who that sounds like?     The guy who coaches Indianapolis.     We made Pittsburgh look great.   They just lost to the NY Jets.      We should've beaten Philly, but didn't.      We lost last year to St. Louis,  with their back-up quarterback, no less.   What did they finish 6-10?

 

Guess that Pagano guy is no good, huh?

 

And all of those great players that Detroit has?    Calvin johnson hasn't played much this year.    High ankle sprain.   And some of the games he has played,  he's been a shell of himself due to the injury.      And the rest of those players,  Jim Schwartz couldn't seem to win with them.    For a number of years.   

 

But it's been Caldwell taking a talented but under-achieving group and get them to play better.    Not every coach can do that.

 

And it was you,  not me,  who said "with all that talent all he has to do is show-up"          

 

Talk about a comment that sounds like it came from a dork?!?     People who don't know and understand sports write stuff like that.     If you're going to say it,  you might as well own it.    It's yours.    Not mine.   

 

You don't like the guy.    Fine.    Say it.    But to say he hasn't shown you anything shows you're not paying attention.    To those who are watching him,   he's doing a nice job.

[Superman]

Just because Caldwell wasn't a good coach doesn't mean he still isn't a good coach. Conversely, just because he's now a good coach (if he even is, I think we should let time decide) doesn't mean he always was a good coach.

 

Coaches get better as time goes on. There are numerous examples of this. If Caldwell coached 2011 the way he coached yesterday, we would have won more than 2 games. Actually, if he coached the Super Bowl the way he coached yesterday, particularly at the end of the first half, we probably would have won.

[amfootball]

No.    You didn't say he was average.    You said he wasn't a good coach.    And you said it multiple times.

 

Your facts are that he's only won a few games vs. teams with a winning record,  and he's lost to teams with a losing record.

 

Hmmmmm??      You know who that sounds like?     The guy who coaches Indianapolis.     We made Pittsburgh look great.   They just lost to the NY Jets.      We should've beaten Philly, but didn't.      We lost last year to St. Louis,  with their back-up quarterback, no less.   What did they finish 6-10?

 

Guess that Pagano guy is no good, huh?

 

And all of those great players that Detroit has?    Calvin johnson hasn't played much this year.    High ankle sprain.   And some of the games he has played,  he's been a shell of himself due to the injury.      And the rest of those players,  Jim Schwartz couldn't seem to win with them.    For a number of years.   

 

But it's been Caldwell taking a talented but under-achieving group and get them to play better.    Not every coach can do that.

 

And it was you,  not me,  who said "with all that talent all he has to do is show-up"          

 

Talk about a comment that sounds like it came from a dork?!?     People who don't know and understand sports write stuff like that.     If you're going to say it,  you might as well own it.    It's yours.    Not mine.   

 

You don't like the guy.    Fine.    Say it.    But to say he hasn't shown you anything shows you're not paying attention.    To those who are watching him,   he's doing a nice job.

By now the Lions usually do the big fade. That game against the Fins is one I think they lose last year. They are showing a lot of grit and resilience this year which has been missing. They have always had talent but also found ways to lose games. They should have easily won the North last year with Rodgers missing half the season and they were not even in it the last week of the season. I think Caldwell deserves a lot of credit for getting that team to perform to its talent level. They are better than GB. They were last year too.

[Vance]

Just because Caldwell wasn't a good coach doesn't mean he still isn't a good coach. Conversely, just because he's now a good coach (if he even is, I think we should let time decide) doesn't mean he always was a good coach.

 

Coaches get better as time goes on. There are numerous examples of this. If Caldwell coached 2011 the way he coached yesterday, we would have won more than 2 games. Actually, if he coached the Super Bowl the way he coached yesterday, particularly at the end of the first half, we probably would have won.

 

Nobody was winning games with Curtis "The" Painter at QB.

[Superman]

Nobody was winning games with Curtis "The" Painter at QB.

 

It's like you didn't watch the games. Which I don't doubt. I don't know why anyone would have watched those games, aside from Colts fans.

 

But the first four games Painter played were close games. Better coaching would have made a big difference.

[Vance]

It's like you didn't watch the games. Which I don't doubt. I don't know why anyone would have watched those games, aside from Colts fans.

 

But the first four games Painter played were close games. Better coaching would have made a big difference.

 

I see. Well, maybe they would have won 4 games. And missed out on Luck.

[Superman]

I see. Well, maybe they would have won 4 games. And missed out on Luck.

 

Yeah, pretty much. I'm not asking for a re-do...

[corgi]

No.    You didn't say he was average.    You said he wasn't a good coach.    And you said it multiple times.

 

Your facts are that he's only won a few games vs. teams with a winning record,  and he's lost to teams with a losing record.

 

Hmmmmm??      You know who that sounds like?     The guy who coaches Indianapolis.     We made Pittsburgh look great.   They just lost to the NY Jets.      We should've beaten Philly, but didn't.      We lost last year to St. Louis,  with their back-up quarterback, no less.   What did they finish 6-10?

 

Guess that Pagano guy is no good, huh?

 

And all of those great players that Detroit has?    Calvin johnson hasn't played much this year.    High ankle sprain.   And some of the games he has played,  he's been a shell of himself due to the injury.      And the rest of those players,  Jim Schwartz couldn't seem to win with them.    For a number of years.   

 

But it's been Caldwell taking a talented but under-achieving group and get them to play better.    Not every coach can do that.

 

And it was you,  not me,  who said "with all that talent all he has to do is show-up"          

 

Talk about a comment that sounds like it came from a dork?!?     People who don't know and understand sports write stuff like that.     If you're going to say it,  you might as well own it.    It's yours.    Not mine.   

 

You don't like the guy.    Fine.    Say it.    But to say he hasn't shown you anything shows you're not paying attention.    To those who are watching him,   he's doing a nice job.

I said he's not good all of one time, not multiple times. Being average doesn't exactly make one good.

Pagano's record is 

• 28-13 regular season
• 1-2 postseason

just fyi, he's better than Caldwell.

 

 

I have no problem owning my comment. I said it. It lives on in the thread. I didn't take your advice (for obvious reasons) and beg the mods to delete it for my own well being. Heaven forbid I should be embarassed in front of the likes of you and AMfootball. I will lose sleep tonight (I have severe insomnia, but don't let that take away from your accomplishment of post shaming!)

 

You continue to sound like a dork, not me.(for future reference it usually works more to your favor to come up with your own insult) Being better than Jim Schwartz who has a career .363 win percentage isn't regular a leg to stand on in an argument either. He was god awful in college and he's painfully average right now. You do realize Detroit could still go 7-9 right? They probably won't but if you want to be Dennis Greene and "crown" Caldwell then be my guest.

 

I am paying attention or I wouldn't have commented. I have nothing against Caldwell, his being average as a head coach led to the Colts drafting Andrew Luck and several UVa victories over Wake Forest. He's a good OC, and I'm sure he's a good dude but lets wait until the season is over before we hand him coach of the year honors and a Lombardi.

[NewColtsFan]

I said he's not good all of one time, not multiple times. Being average doesn't exactly make one good.

Pagano's record is 

• 28-13 regular season
• 1-2 postseason

just fyi, he's better than Caldwell.

 

 

I have no problem owning my comment. I said it. It lives on in the thread. I didn't take your advice (for obvious reasons) and beg the mods to delete it for my own well being. Heaven forbid I should be embarassed in front of the likes of you and AMfootball. I will lose sleep tonight (I have severe insomnia, but don't let that take away from your accomplishment of post shaming!)

 

You continue to sound like a dork, not me.(for future reference it usually works more to your favor to come up with your own insult) Being better than Jim Schwartz who has a career .363 win percentage isn't regular a leg to stand on in an argument either. He was god awful in college and he's painfully average right now. You do realize Detroit could still go 7-9 right? They probably won't but if you want to be Dennis Greene and "crown" Caldwell then be my guest.

 

I am paying attention or I wouldn't have commented. I have nothing against Caldwell, his being average as a head coach led to the Colts drafting Andrew Luck and several UVa victories over Wake Forest. He's a good OC, and I'm sure he's a good dude but lets wait until the season is over before we hand him coach of the year honors and a Lombardi.

 

 

Post 8,  42 and 62.     Not just one time.  

 

If you had called him an average coach you and I would NEVER have had the conversation we've been having.

[NewColtsFan]

I said he's not good all of one time, not multiple times. Being average doesn't exactly make one good.

Pagano's record is 

• 28-13 regular season
• 1-2 postseason

just fyi, he's better than Caldwell.

 

 

I have no problem owning my comment. I said it. It lives on in the thread. I didn't take your advice (for obvious reasons) and beg the mods to delete it for my own well being. Heaven forbid I should be embarassed in front of the likes of you and AMfootball. I will lose sleep tonight (I have severe insomnia, but don't let that take away from your accomplishment of post shaming!)

 

You continue to sound like a dork, not me.(for future reference it usually works more to your favor to come up with your own insult) Being better than Jim Schwartz who has a career .363 win percentage isn't regular a leg to stand on in an argument either. He was god awful in college and he's painfully average right now. You do realize Detroit could still go 7-9 right? They probably won't but if you want to be Dennis Greene and "crown" Caldwell then be my guest.

 

I am paying attention or I wouldn't have commented. I have nothing against Caldwell, his being average as a head coach led to the Colts drafting Andrew Luck and several UVa victories over Wake Forest. He's a good OC, and I'm sure he's a good dude but lets wait until the season is over before we hand him coach of the year honors and a Lombardi.

 

I'd like to amend my last post to you....    I did NOT do a good job of explaining myself.

 

What set me off -- beyond just that you don't think Caldwell is a good coach or not -- was the last sentence you wrote in that post of yours....    "with all that talent, all he has to do is show up."

 

I'm sorry.    But I think that's a spectacularly bad and lame argument.    In fact,  it's typically an argument used by people who don't have an argument.     In other words,  they don't have anything to back it up.

 

I think without that line,  this thread would've been much shorter.     At some point we would've agreed to disagree and moved on.

 

But that line was eye popping to me.     No matter the sport.

 

It's universally accepted that coaches need talent to win.    But anyone who underestimates the importance of coaching -- as you did with Caldwell -- simply doesn't understand how important good coaching is to a team.    Any team.

[corgi]

Post 8,  42 and 62.     Not just one time.  

 

If you had called him an average coach you and I would NEVER have had the conversation we've been having.

8 and 62. Sure. 42 reread it I said "that has nothing to do with being a good coach." Average doesn't mean good. A "C" student isn't good or bad a "C" student is average. A "B" Student is above average. Caldwell is average which isn't good or bad, he's getting by with a 75. So by saying he isn't good I'm correct.

 

I'd like to amend my last post to you....    I did NOT do a good job of explaining myself.

 

What set me off -- beyond just that you don't think Caldwell is a good coach or not -- was the last sentence you wrote in that post of yours....    "with all that talent, all he has to do is show up."

 

I'm sorry.    But I think that's a spectacularly bad and lame argument.    In fact,  it's typically an argument used by people who don't have an argument.     In other words,  they don't have anything to back it up.

 

I think without that line,  this thread would've been much shorter.     At some point we would've agreed to disagree and moved on.

 

But that line was eye popping to me.     No matter the sport.

 

It's universally accepted that coaches need talent to win.    But anyone who underestimates the importance of coaching -- as you did with Caldwell -- simply doesn't understand how important good coaching is to a team.    Any team.

Your whole tirade is predicated on you not liking one thing I said.My point in saying was that "all he has to do is show up", was that the team is loaded with talent he would have to purposely try to screw it up or just be completely incompetent (which he isn't, average is competent, Schwartz was incompetent and well below average) . I do understand how good coaching is important to a team. Caldwell is average. Average shows up, coast, and settles for okay and mediocrity. Until he accomplishes something he will continue to be average and not good.

 

I certainly don't apologize for saying all he has to do is show up. "it's typically an argument used by people who don't have an argument."  Well I suppose I'm atypical.  " In other words,  they don't have anything to back it up."  I had plenty of facts to back up my point.

 

Are you Jim Caldwell? Because honestly I don't think he would take it as personally as you have. Save your passion for something less frivolous.

[NewColtsFan]

8 and 62. Sure. 42 reread it I said "that has nothing to do with being a good coach." Average doesn't mean good. A "C" student isn't good or bad a "C" student is average. A "B" Student is above average. Caldwell is average which isn't good or bad, he's getting by with a 75. So by saying he isn't good I'm correct.

 

Your whole tirade is predicated on you not liking one thing I said.My point in saying was that "all he has to do is show up", was that the team is loaded with talent he would have to purposely try to screw it up or just be completely incompetent (which he isn't, average is competent, Schwartz was incompetent and well below average) . I do understand how good coaching is important to a team. Caldwell is average. Average shows up, coast, and settles for okay and mediocrity. Until he accomplishes something he will continue to be average and not good.

 

I certainly don't apologize for saying all he has to do is show up. "it's typically an argument used by people who don't have an argument."  Well I suppose I'm atypical.  " In other words,  they don't have anything to back it up."  I had plenty of facts to back up my point.

 

Are you Jim Caldwell? Because honestly I don't think he would take it as personally as you have. Save your passion for something less frivolous.

 

The best thing you've done is to torture logic beyond all comprehension.

 

You showed Caldwell's NFL record, which is very good by the way,  and of course, failed to mention that he's got a 2-14 record included in that when he lost Peyton.     Having a good record WITH a 2-14 is very impressive.

 

As for his college record,  he coached at Wake Forest,  where almost no one has succeeded.    BFD.

 

So, you've overplayed his shortcomings and underplayed his success.    Not a surprise.

 

You've downplayed your "he's a bad coach comments"   and downplayed your "all he has to do is show up" nonsense.

 

In other words,  you've excused yourself for all the ridiculous arguments you've put out there.

 

And while doing all that, you changed your position.    You went from "he's a bad coach"  to "he's an average coach"     And you threw out the strawman about Hall of Fame or Coach of the Year.    Which of course,  I never argued.    I just said he's done a good job,  and a nice job.   But you couldn't even acknowledge that.

 

I'm not Jim Caldwell.    But I am interested in honest discussion and debate.   In the future, I'll note you're not capable of that.

 

I don't care when people disagree with me.    Sometimes they're right, and sometimes I'm wrong.  

 

But I do care when people make false arguments and twist logic to defend a bad point as you did over and over again.

 

So,  you and I can just ignore each other.    I'm not interested in any more discussions like this......

[corgi]

The best thing you've done is to torture logic beyond all comprehension.

 

You showed Caldwell's NFL record, which is very good by the way,  and of course, failed to mention that he's got a 2-14 record included in that when he lost Peyton.     Having a good record WITH a 2-14 is very impressive.

 

As for his college record,  he coached at Wake Forest,  where almost no one has succeeded.    BFD.

 

So, you've overplayed his shortcomings and underplayed his success.    Not a surprise.

 

You've downplayed your "he's a bad coach comments"   and downplayed your "all he has to do is show up" nonsense.

 

In other words,  you've excused yourself for all the ridiculous arguments you've put out there.

 

And while doing all that, you changed your position.    You went from "he's a bad coach"  to "he's an average coach"     And you threw out the strawman about Hall of Fame or Coach of the Year.    Which of course,  I never argued.    I just said he's done a good job,  and a nice job.   But you couldn't even acknowledge that.

 

I'm not Jim Caldwell.    But I am interested in honest discussion and debate.   In the future, I'll note you're not capable of that.

 

I don't care when people disagree with me.    Sometimes they're right, and sometimes I'm wrong.  

 

But I do care when people make false arguments and twist logic to defend a bad point as you did over and over again.

 

So,  you and I can just ignore each other.    I'm not interested in any more discussions like this......

Save your voice kid. Your WF excuse is nonsense. UVa has insane academic requirements for athletes yet they've won bowl games and had success while WF floundered with Caldwell. I didn't change my stance. I explained that Average is not good. Which is the definition of Caldwell.

 

Being average (not good) is not me refusing to acknowledge his accomplishments. When you are average you don't really have many accomplishments to acknowledge outside of participation trophies and if you are lucky white ribbons.

 

He's done an average job, whether you call it good or not. You are upset that someone had something less than flattering to say about an ex-colt coach.

 

I owned my comments about him being a bad coach (average isn't good, for God's sake read my comments), and I owned my all he has to do is show up. I still believe he's in a good situation and the success is a reflection of his teams talent not his average (not good) abilities.

 

You just can't fathom that I don't share your view of JC. He's barely above .500 (2-14 or not) that's not exactly something to write home about. "Hey mom I'm a C student! You should be proud!" Well enjoy your hairnet and mediocrity son.

 

I acknowledge time and time again that he is average (not good) but if you don't understand average (not good) then I can't help you.

 

I've ignored you since you showed up (until you quoted me, and went full on dork-rage on me) so by you saying that we will ignore each other means that my time on the forum will always be exactly the same.

[NewColtsFan]

Save your voice kid. Your WF excuse is nonsense. UVa has insane academic requirements for athletes yet they've won bowl games and had success while WF floundered with Caldwell. I didn't change my stance. I explained that Average is not good. Which is the definition of Caldwell.

 

Being average (not good) is not me refusing to acknowledge his accomplishments. When you are average you don't really have many accomplishments to acknowledge outside of participation trophies and if you are lucky white ribbons.

 

He's done an average job, whether you call it good or not. You are upset that someone had something less than flattering to say about an ex-colt coach.

 

I owned my comments about him being a bad coach (average isn't good, for God's sake read my comments), and I owned my all he has to do is show up. I still believe he's in a good situation and the success is a reflection of his teams talent not his average (not good) abilities.

 

You just can't fathom that I don't share your view of JC. He's barely above .500 (2-14 or not) that's not exactly something to write home about. "Hey mom I'm a C student! You should be proud!" Well enjoy your hairnet and mediocrity son.

 

I acknowledge time and time again that he is average (not good) but if you don't understand average (not good) then I can't help you.

 

I've ignored you since you showed up (until you quoted me, and went full on dork-rage on me) so by you saying that we will ignore each other means that my time on the forum will always be exactly the same.

 

Here's how intellectually dishonest you are.

 

Average does NOT equal "not good"     Not in anyone's world.     You're just flying by the seat of your pants because you're getting killed here.       "Average isn't good"...?     Of course it doesn't.    And by the same measure average doesn't equal bad, except if your name is Corgi.    Because you have used "Average" and "bad" as almost interchangeable.

 

Jim Caldwell isn't good because he didn't do well at WF?    Guess Nick Saban isn't good because he didn't do well at Michigan State or because he was only average with the Miami Dolphins.     I could on forever with your nonsense.

 

Now you're trotting out that I'm upset because someone has something bad to say about an ex-Colts coach?!?

 

WTH?!?      I've been a Colts fan all of 2 and a half years.    That's it.     Became one when Luck came here.    And I'll likely stop being one when Luck retires.     So, you can kiss that argument goodbye.

 

Caldwell is "barely above 500"...???     According to you he's 33-24?     And that's now the new definition of barely above 500?

 

The number of ways in which you're clueless can't be counted.    How high is up?!?  

 

I hate intellectual dishonestly.   And this week,  that became known as "Corgi"