Is Brady's arm 'shot'?

[amfootball]

Figure out. Adjust. Adapt.

How come Manning did not just do that in the Super Bowl then?

[amfootball]

  

What has happened to the Pats Oline? I know they traded away Mankins, but the Pats Oline has usually been very solid, it looks poor this season. I figured you two would know better than I would, just curious.

Not sure. Lots of new guys but their two main cogs Vollmer and Solder have not played well. They started a new center Stork last night and he played well. I think they are still searching for the right combo. Of course trading Mankins has hurt too.

[Shane Bond]

How come Manning did not just do that in the Super Bowl then?

That's one game against the best defense in NFL.

Brady is struggling against every team this year.

Are you just arguing for the sake of it?. You seem quite frustrated.

[GoPats]

Guess again. 

 

Never in the history of the NFL has a QB been put in a better situation to succeed than Brady.

 

You put Peyton on those New England teams, and he may have filled both his hands with rings. 

 

Brady would have been an above average QB on any other team.

 

You're not doing yourself justice in terms of your football knowledge with a quote like that. To reflect on the Patriots' current struggles (and Brady's) and to basically equate that to the entirety of Brady's career is pure hater nonsense.

 

There are a lot of ways players earn notoriety and recognition. Completely separate from the highly subjective "who's better, who's best?" debates, Brady's career stands up to anyone's. 

 

I realize on some level it still probably hurts that Brady stole so much of Manning's thunder throughout his prime, but to try to debase that now, based on the current state of the Patriots, is complete garbage.  

 

 

Manning would have that pout face and refuse to take the field. I wouldn't blame him. Elway knew to put a great line and skill guys around him and run game at his age.

 

To be fair I'd have to apply the same standard here AM. You don't know how Manning would handle the situation Brady is in right now. He's as good (if not better) as Brady at pre-snap stuff and gets rid of the ball quickly when he needs to. #12 hasn't been part of the solution so far. He's been part of the problem. 

 

 

I heard the talking heads today and they actually made some good points. They compared Denver and NE with relatively short windows with Manning and Brady, and how Denver was getting everyone they could to help Manning in this window, while Belichick is still trading back, and playing for the future, while the future is now , for Brady. Interesting

 

That's the only thing that really gnaws at me still. The losses roll off, but I'm really questioning the philosophy here. And when they do make a splash, as they did with Revis, they still play a zone-heavy scheme and don't use his talents?

 

Part of me wonders if the financial bottom line in Foxboro is catching up with the desire to win and succeed. They've certainly failed to maximize their time-sensitive chances with their aging Hall of Fame QB.

[Moose Of Woe]

How come Manning did not just do that in the Super Bowl then?

In all fairness, nobody on the Broncos adjusted in the Super Bowl. The only one who looked like they got off the plane was Welker.

 

Pretty much how NE looked last night. Guys falling down...blowing assignments....just plain bad. At least the center didn't hike it over Brady's head, though? Nobody on the team stepped up to make a play or get back in the game.

 

In years past in the rare case Brady didn't play well the team could almost always carry him. In recent years the D hasn't been dominant but the overall team was good enough to win unless he played absolutely terrible. I wouldn't even call this Brady's worst outing, but it looks that way because the whole team sucked too. Couple that with lack of O-line and now, first the first time in his career, he really  needs to carry the team.

 

Now we'll see how good he really is. Nobody in their right mind can expect him to put up great numbers, but he needs to pretty much put in a single great effort every night if they hope to win games against mediocre teams. If he's off, the Pats are toast. On the plus side they only need to win, like, 8 games maybe.   The schedule is favorable in that regard.

[amfootball]

That's one game against the best defense in NFL.

Brady is struggling against every team this year.

Are you just arguing for the sake of it?. You seem quite frustrated.

Your basis that he just needs to adjust. That is a joke. He has not been playing well for sure but the O around him is awful.

[Yehoodi]

  

What has happened to the Pats Oline? I know they traded away Mankins, but the Pats Oline has usually been very solid, it looks poor this season. I figured you two would know better than I would, just curious.

 

for some reason Vollmer is regressing and for the most part we have either rookies or average OL outside of Solder, who is not play like a 1st rounder . . . time will tell . . . I do not think that it has to do with the loss of Mankins as some up here think, as we weren't that great last year either . . .  

 

hopefully the team will get it turned around . . . there are still 12 games to play .  .

[Shane Bond]

Your basis that he just needs to adjust. That is a joke. He has not been playing well for sure but the O around him is awful.

So throw incompletions, don't take a hit. Thats adapting. Practise with WRs for quick slants/releases. Thats adapting.

 

I mean we have played 4 games so far. We cant just start blaming everyone in the world. If you are this super QB, take the leadership and make a change not having a depressing face.

[amfootball]

So throw incompletions, don't take a hit. Thats adapting. Practise with WRs for quick slants/releases. Thats adapting.

 

I mean we have played 4 games so far. We cant just start blaming everyone in the world. If you are this super QB, take the leadership and make a change not having a depressing face.

Yeah, I expect to see him doing more of that. The O has to speed up in terms of the play calls and also go back to the run game. Not sure why they went away from it entirely last night.

[Shane Bond]

Yeah, I expect to see him doing more of that. The O has to speed up in terms of the play calls and also go back to the run game. Not sure why they went away from it entirely last night.

I told you Logan Mankins was a mistake. You argued saying he is washed up.

[amfootball]

You're not doing yourself justice in terms of your football knowledge with a quote like that. To reflect on the Patriots' current struggles (and Brady's) and to basically equate that to the entirety of Brady's career is pure hater nonsense.

 

There are a lot of ways players earn notoriety and recognition. Completely separate from the highly subjective "who's better, who's best?" debates, Brady's career stands up to anyone's. 

 

I realize on some level it still probably hurts that Brady stole so much of Manning's thunder throughout his prime, but to try to debase that now, based on the current state of the Patriots, is complete garbage.  

 

 

 

To be fair I'd have to apply the same standard here AM. You don't know how Manning would handle the situation Brady is in right now. He's as good (if not better) as Brady at pre-snap stuff and gets rid of the ball quickly when he needs to. #12 hasn't been part of the solution so far. He's been part of the problem. 

 

 

 

That's the only thing that really gnaws at me still. The losses roll off, but I'm really questioning the philosophy here. And when they do make a splash, as they did with Revis, they still play a zone-heavy scheme and don't use his talents?

 

Part of me wonders if the financial bottom line in Foxboro is catching up with the desire to win and succeed. They've certainly failed to maximize their time-sensitive chances with their aging Hall of Fame QB.

Yeah apples to oranges GP. Manning would be trying to run his Indy offense and we don't have the personnel for that. He would get croaked in our O for sure. If he was able to run the Indy offense and had the personnel for sure he would be more successful assuming he could avoid all the blind side hits ...

[amfootball]

I told you Logan Mankins was a mistake. You argued saying he is washed up.

I never said he was washed up but that I did not have an issue with the trade given the size of his contract and his age and injury history. It was a money trade which is what the Pats do. For sure they do miss him but the Oline is greater than just one player. Not sure how much better they would be with him honestly as they were pretty bad last year too.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

That is where we disagree. I do not think Brady ever wins a Super Bowl if he did not play for the Patriots.

I don't believe he was ever great. Brady has a Great Coach - Maybe the best of all time. He has had Great Teams around him. But Brady, in my mind, has never been Great.

Then you are lost.

[Gramz]

It's Painful.......

 

[TAPLOOK]

This fits the description of a hater to a T.

Although, I don't suspect you'll get much Brady hate from most Colts fans but rather respect.

 

 

You lost me?

[Clem-Dog]

You lost me?

That was in response to you saying something to the effect that all the haters will be ready to hate on Brady now that it serves their purpose. I was simply stating that most knowledgable Colts fans will not because he has earned their respect. Or something like that.

[TAPLOOK]

That was in response to you saying something to the effect that all the haters will be ready to hate on Brady now that it serves their purpose. I was simply stating that most knowledgable Colts fans will not because he has earned their respect. Or something like that.

 

 

I see and agree.

[JerodMayo51]

Brady sucked. Garapollo scored a beautiful TD with the same team. Period.

 

lol, Yea Garapollo looked so good going in against the Chiefs prevent defense and completing a couple passes that were then taken by the WR and turned for serious YAC

[JerodMayo51]

Manning gets rid of the ball faster. He had a terrible oline in 2010

 

Week 2 Brady released the majority of his passes in under TWO SECONDS.  Nice try though.

[JerodMayo51]

Can you really quit whining .

 

This Pats OL is not as terrible as you make it. Colts had worst OLs than this when Manning was QB. Like Jvan said, Manning always releases quick. 

 

Wow, you're wrong.  Go look at the PFF, the Pats oline grades worst in the league..  Their O-lineman individually rank at the very bottom of their position out of 60-70 players.

[JerodMayo51]

Why dont you paste it here.

 

Why dont you actually do some research and use facts and analysis to form your opinions.. Instead what I've noticed around here is people firing off at the hip with ridiculous opinions and outrageous claims, and have ZERO to support it.. then have the audacity to tell other people to do their research for them and prove them wrong.

[JerodMayo51]

The Mathis hit proves your point wrong.  Manning, at the same age that Brady is now, got hit a lot early in the season and still won 13 games, threw 55 TDs and went to the SB.  Does not sound like refusing to take the field.  Maybe that's what happened last night... Brady didn't get benched because of poor play and the game being out of reach, he just refused to take the field.

 

Wow.. now you're trying to draw comparisons between the loaded Broncos offense and Brady's offense that has been completely depleted of talent.  Manning picked the Broncos because they were STACKED.. hence Tim Tebow bringing them to the divisional round of the playoffs.

 

His offense is loaded with talent at every single position, with 3 super stars at skill positions... and Emmanual Sanders is approaching that status.  Brady also didn't refuse to take the field, Belichick sat him because the deficit became too great, the Chiefs defensive ends would have had a field day on his face in the backfield when they know he has to pass every single down and the Oline can't block anything.

[JerodMayo51]

...Brady has not been getting hit any more or any harder than most of QBs in the NFL.

 

This statement is just completely incorrect and ignores facts

[Yehoodi]

so far Brady has not look good . . . but the best test to know if Brady's play has gone down is to see how he plays when the Oline gets in order and the WR can get some level of separation . .. then we will have a good litmus test on Brady's skills . . .  

[Shane Bond]

lol, Yea Garapollo looked so good going in against the Chiefs prevent defense and completing a couple passes that were then taken by the WR and turned for serious YAC

Mayo - Why are to trying to diminish what your future QB is doing?.

[Shane Bond]

Why dont you actually do some research and use facts and analysis to form your opinions.. Instead what I've noticed around here is people firing off at the hip with ridiculous opinions and outrageous claims, and have ZERO to support it.. then have the audacity to tell other people to do their research for them and prove them wrong.

Read what supercoltsfan posted.

[Shane Bond]

Wow, you're wrong.  Go look at the PFF, the Pats oline grades worst in the league..  Their O-lineman individually rank at the very bottom of their position out of 60-70 players.

No i am not. Ever watched Colts OL before?.

 

Quit whining guys. Figure out and find a way to play ball. 

[thedude]

Has not looked good in recent years--very inaccurate. If he can't light up the Raiders this weekend, then the writing is definitely on the wall.

I think he has looked very good at times and not so good on other occasions. One thing is for certain, he does not have, nor has he had a lot of weapons on offense around him. He's not the QB he was at one point, but his arm is not shot.

As far as him being an all time great? I'm not so sure about that. Montana, Elway and several other QB's in that discussion were better in my opinion.

Some QB's elevate the play of their teammates. I never got the sense that Brady was that type of player. In my mind, those who said he is one of the greatest of all time were overrating him.

[Dustin]

Week 2 Brady released the majority of his passes in under TWO SECONDS. Nice try though.

Manning did the same thing week one. Statistically Manning is throwing an average of 2.12 seconds vs Brady's 2.33.

[amfootball]

Manning did the same thing week one. Statistically Manning is throwing an average of 2.12 seconds vs Brady's 2.33.

is that true? I thought Brady for sure was holding the ball longer this season. Is that 2.33 for just the one game or is that his average through the four games?

 

One other q for you, if you have time, can you tell me right now where the Pats Oline ranks? I don't have any paid subscriptions to be able to look it up. Also in Manning's tenure with the Colts, did he ever have a line that ranked as low or lower than the Pats this year? Thanks Dustin.

[amfootball]

I think he has looked very good at times and not so good on other occasions. One thing is for certain, he does not have, nor has he had a lot of weapons on offense around him. He's not the QB he was at one point, but his arm is not shot.

As far as him being an all time great? I'm not so sure about that. Montana, Elway and several other QB's in that discussion were better in my opinion.

Some QB's elevate the play of their teammates. I never got the sense that Brady was that type of player. In my mind, those who said he is one of the greatest of all time were overrating him.

Do you feel that way about your QB Wilson because he gets the most comparisons to Brady so he must not be good at elevating his teammates either.

[jvan1973]

Week 2 Brady released the majority of his passes in under TWO SECONDS. Nice try though.

how about week 4?

[King Colt]

Let's see how Hoody gets his team ready for Cincy next Sunday night. nowing him we are going to see a very different game with Cincy eeking out a win.

[Dustin]

is that true? I thought Brady for sure was holding the ball longer this season. Is that 2.33 for just the one game or is that his average through the four games?

One other q for you, if you have time, can you tell me right now where the Pats Oline ranks? I don't have any paid subscriptions to be able to look it up. Also in Manning's tenure with the Colts, did he ever have a line that ranked as low or lower than the Pats this year? Thanks Dustin.

2.33 is his four game average.

Patriots have the 32nd graded oline in pass blocking at -27.7.

In 2010 Peytons oline was graded at -49.6 through 16 games.

Pats Oline is on pace to be the lowest graded line since 2007. Probably wont be as bad as the 2012 Colts and 2012/2013 Cardinals lines tho.

[Coffeedrinker]

This statement is just completely incorrect and ignores facts

No it doesn't.  There are actually several QBs that have been hit more than Brady so far this season.  I can list them if you want.

[Coffeedrinker]

Wow.. now you're trying to draw comparisons between the loaded Broncos offense and Brady's offense that has been completely depleted of talent.  Manning picked the Broncos because they were STACKED.. hence Tim Tebow bringing them to the divisional round of the playoffs.

 

His offense is loaded with talent at every single position, with 3 super stars at skill positions... and Emmanual Sanders is approaching that status.  Brady also didn't refuse to take the field, Belichick sat him because the deficit became too great, the Chiefs defensive ends would have had a field day on his face in the backfield when they know he has to pass every single down and the Oline can't block anything.

Actually it was Am Football that drew the comparison's I was just responding.  But if I understand what you are saying, Brady's struggles are BB's fault.  Good to know.

 

Lastly, I thought belichick sat him because, you know, he was horrible in the game.

[amfootball]

2.33 is his four game average.

Patriots have the 32nd graded oline in pass blocking at -27.7.

In 2010 Peytons oline was graded at -49.6 through 16 games.

Pats Oline is on pace to be the lowest graded line since 2007. Probably wont be as bad as the 2012 Colts and 2012/2013 Cardinals lines tho.

Thanks. I am shocked that he has released the ball that fast this year. He is getting rid of it quickly and yet still getting sacked and hit and hurried.

 

What does -27.7 mean? Also is that a cumulative stat? In other words, it is likely that the -27 will approach the Colts -49 mark by week 17? Also, how many sacks and pressures thus far vs the 2010 Colts?

[Track Guy]

Brady's not as good as he once was, but if he had a good surrounding pieces I believe he could still get the job done. If he played for Cincinnati, Denver, or Seattle he'd look a lot better than he does on the Pats. But yeah, his accuracy and mobility have definitely slipped a bit.

[Ryan Pelley]

His accuracy going back to last season has been pretty bad. I know, a lot of "experts" put that all on his young receivers, but he has been off on many throws and plain bad at times. Sure, chemistry issues with young / new receivers is a pretty big issue, but let's not put all the blame on them. I think there were 3 or 4 game ending interceptions he threw last season, which in years past, we would never see.

 

It's actually surprising even when considering his age, beacuse other than the ACL tear in 2008, he's been pretty healthy.

 

Something else to consider, his offensive line is not dominant as it once was. I mean, in years past, Brady would stand flat footed in the pocket for 5 - 10 seconds at a time untouched, waiting for one of his receivers to break open. He could have taken a nap during plays behind that line. Now, he doesn't have that luxury and it's showing.

[thedude]

Do you feel that way about your QB Wilson because he gets the most comparisons to Brady so he must not be good at elevating his teammates either.

I have not seen this comparison of Brady and Wilson that you mentioned. I suggest you research what Wilson's teammates say about him. Seeing that Wilson's team won an NFL championship recently by completely dominating a team which was superior on paper, I don't know from where you pulled that comment.