Is Brady's arm 'shot'?

[theomaestro]

I don't think his arm is shot, that is usually the last thing to go unless he suffers a serious injury. I will say that I have seen him more bad games in recent years than he ever did in the past. Part of that may because injuries have depleted his receiving core to a great extent. I think he can have a great game at any time but he can also have a very poor one.

[ZAZA418]

If its shot then somebody better be arrested!

I suspect Marvin Harrison

[ReMeDy]

Is there a Colts fan forum anyone knows of where Pats fans are banned? Serious question.

[amfootball]

Is there a Colts fan forum anyone knows of where Pats fans are banned? Serious question.

Why?  Are we making you

[Shane Bond]

You could just attack the argument without involved Manning? What's Peyton got to do with it? You know it's going to aggravate people so why do it. 

 

Agree though it's a ridiculous post. 

Yeah, its never called baiting when they do it.

[Shane Bond]

Because it is a fair comparison in this instance. Again, if you are going to post that Brady's arm is shot, what is Manning's arm looking like? He has lost a lot of zip since the neck surgeries and still playing well with a great team around him. Brady is still bringing this reconstructed O along and has major issues on the Oline as well. But again, thread is ridiculous and posted to bait. I am guessing locking will come before end of the day.

Any opinion shared about NE and Brady in a NFL section of a Colts forum, why do you always call for locking the thread?. If you dont like his opinion, say it.

 

You know its catching up.

[Shane Bond]

If it gets locked it's because you turned it into a Brady vs Manning debate when that is not what the thread was about. It would be nice to have a debate on anything without the older than dirt debate of Manning vs Brady.

Are we in a Colts forum?.

[amfootball]

Any opinion shared about NE and Brady in a NFL section of a Colts forum, why do you always call for locking the thread?. If you dont like his opinion, say it.

 

You know its catching up.

Back from suspension already?

[Shane Bond]

Back from suspension already?

For this, you will be heading soon.

[Vance]

For this, you will be heading soon.

 

[Nadine]

Can you people who constantly fight with each other just give it a rest?  Multiple posts have been removed from this thread because several people we being ridiculous

 

this is a message board......learn to tolerate each other or leave

[oldunclemark]

I don't understand the threads about Tom Brady being traded or hurt?

They have no basis in any 'real world' sense..not that you need basis to post something..

..But Tom Brady is not about to retire, get traded, get suspended..or star in his own reality show..

.,.and we all know that

[TAPLOOK]

These thread will look silly later this season.

 

Edited September 24, 2014 by 21isSuperman

[Yehoodi]

Yeah, I've watched the games and looked at the stats. Maybe you should do the same.

 

so what "stats" have you looked at in making your determination . . . ?

[-JJ-]

so what "stats" have you looked at in making your determination . . . ?

uh oh ;)

[LordHelpOurColts]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/2330/year/2013/tom-brady

[Yehoodi]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/2330/year/2013/tom-brady

 

was this directed at my post? . . . if so what does this mean? . . . please explain . . . please make your point as to what a link to a stats page for Tom Brady has to do with him being "very" inaccurate and the "writing is definitely on the wall" if he does not "light up" the Raiders . . . take your time . . . I am asking for a reasoned response in which ones make a logical argument connecting the dots, I don't want a single dot . . . again, take as much time as you need to make your point . . .

[LordHelpOurColts]

was this directed at my post? . . . if so what does this mean? . . . please explain . . . please make your point as to what a link to a stats page for Tom Brady has to do with him being "very" inaccurate and the "writing is definitely on the wall" if he does not "light up" the Raiders . . . take your time . . . I am asking for a reasoned response in which ones make a logical argument connecting the dots, I don't want a single dot . . . again, take as much time as you need to make your point . . .

 

 

Look at the comparisons, dingus. And, watch the games. I repeat, watch the games. If you can't see it, then you're just dumb or naïve.

[sweetsurrender]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/2330/year/2013/tom-brady

lol. His stats last year were the same as Luck's. Guess the Colts should get rid of Luck too given his "shot" arm. Surely, you have more than an ESPN link to prove your point about how Brady is losing it besides "just watch the games?" But I am not holding my breath...

[SteelCityColt]

Look at the comparisons, dingus. And, watch the games. I repeat, watch the games. If you can't see it, then you're just dumb or naïve.

 

The comparisons to what?

 

Just saying watch the games isn't an argument you realise. Be specific, go find a consistent number of plays where Brady can't make throw because of a lack of arm strength and then come back saying he has a noodle arm. 

 

I mean if we're going to do away with you know, actually proving things...

 

 

Curtis Painter is the best QB of all time...

 

Disagree... go watch the games... 

 

See I've done exactly the same as you, but I don't think it would take long for someone to go find a few choice plays from 2011 showing how farcical that statement was. 

[SteelCityColt]

lol. His stats last year were the same as Luck's. Guess the Colts should get rid of Luck too given his "shot" arm. Surely, you have more than an ESPN link to prove your point about how Brady is losing it besides "just watch the games?" But I am not holding my breath...

 

I posted this previously in the thread but his stats last year were pretty similar to his 2004/2005 season so unless his arm was shot those seasons, magically got better, then has gone again I think we can all agree just looking at the stat line proves nothing. 

[sweetsurrender]

I posted this previously in the thread but his stats last year were pretty similar to his 2004/2005 season so unless his arm was shot those seasons, magically got better, then has gone again I think we can all agree just looking at the stat line proves nothing. 

Yeah. I think with Brady it has never been about stats outside of his years with Moss, Welker and the beginning of the Gronk/AH era. He has always been a QB that makes the plays throughout the game to win and rarely turns over the ball. I believe his INT to pass attempt percentage is the best in the NFL. I don't see any decline but I do think the Pats O will struggle until Gronk gets better. Just no threats anywhere in the pass game. 

[dgambill]

Why make this a Brady vs Manning thread? If you have an opinion on Brady and his arm then speak it. Why is it you have to bring Manning in every thread that talks about QBs?

Perhaps its because Manning is the measuring stick of all NFL QBs right now. Like it or not if your looking to analyse a qb he is often going to be the instrument used. Based on age, stature, statistics there is a lot of similarities so its a good comparision. That said I agree in this topic it is perhaps more relevant to compare Brady's arm with his own...but since none of us here (that I'm aware of) have the ability to measure that arm strength by velocity etc I don't know how we could truely have an accurate answer. Just the eye test says his arm is PERFECTLY fine. He has plenty of strenght etc....any accuracy issues I think is from being unfamiliar with his receivers and trusting them to be where they are suppose to be. If you watch passes to Edelman I think you often see a different qb than ones to Dodson and Lafell and even Gronk who hasn't got his feet under him yet. Its simply a trust/timing thing....not an arm thing.

[crazycolt1]

Perhaps its because Manning is the measuring stick of all NFL QBs right now. Like it or not if your looking to analyse a qb he is often going to be the instrument used. Based on age, stature, statistics there is a lot of similarities so its a good comparision. That said I agree in this topic it is perhaps more relevant to compare Brady's arm with his own...but since none of us here (that I'm aware of) have the ability to measure that arm strength by velocity etc I don't know how we could truely have an accurate answer. Just the eye test says his arm is PERFECTLY fine. He has plenty of strenght etc....any accuracy issues I think is from being unfamiliar with his receivers and trusting them to be where they are suppose to be. If you watch passes to Edelman I think you often see a different qb than ones to Dodson and Lafell and even Gronk who hasn't got his feet under him yet. Its simply a trust/timing thing....not an arm thing.

Your comment was spot on on Brady. That was what the original thread was about. We have had way too many Brady-Manning debates, arguments and comparisons. It is old news and there is no more to do all that with IMO. I am sure I am not alone in that opinion. Brady has always had the talent himself and on the Patriots. I see no change in him but there might be a decline in the total talent level of the Patriots. All that could be throw out the window at any time though. I think it is a little too early to anticipate the demise of Brady and the Patriots after 2 games.

[dgambill]

I must say these threads about the demise of Brady seem so very similar to those we read a little more than a year ago after the Ravens game in the playoffs. Basically baseless, very premature, and unfounded....making all those calling his demise look very very foolish...I think we are going to get a lot of crow served to a whole bunch of people. Brady is fine...he has seen a huge amount of turnover at his receiver core and tight ends. They have seen some line changes and some inconsistancies in the running backs. I would go out on a limb by season's end they are still the number 1 seed and the team to beat in the playoffs....and as much as I love my Colts will probably beat the pants off us AGAIN. I hope I'm wrong...I hope we can get past them but I fully believe by the end of the year he will be just as impressive as ever..his numbers will still be over 4000yds and 30tds to probably a handful of ints. If thats falling off....I hope Andrew starts falling off very soon!

[dw49]

His arm strength is fine... he still puts plenty of zip on the ball. His accuracy can certainly be questioned, but it remains to be seen if that's chronic or if it's the result of an offense finding its way and trying to round into form. 

 

Brady's bread-and-butter has always been throwing those short and intermediate routes. It plays to the personnel that the Patriots typically have on their roster. When he did have a legit deep threat in Moss, well... that went pretty well. 

 

The problem at the moment with the Patriots' offense is that they haven't been able to spread the ball around much. Gronkowski is playing a limited role and at times Brady looks like he's trying to force the ball to him. He clearly trusts Edelman the most, and is hardly looking at Amendola or anyone else right now. Brady said in his weekly radio bit on Monday that they have to do a better job of spreading the ball around a little more. 

 

I'm disappointed that none of the second-year receivers (Dobson, Thompkins, and Boyce is now on the practice squad) have seemed to make much progress. Dobson's hurt but I think they were really relying on him to stretch the field and be a good outside target. 

 

Gronk is clearly not back to his old self yet... he really looks like he's lumbering around out there and not running very well. That's not a surprise though, given his injury. He probably just needs more time to round into form. Assuming he does, I think you'll see the Patriots offense drastically improve. They miss him on those long seam routes. 

 

This is all so similar to what people were saying in 2013 after a couple of games... I think we have to give it more time before we judge the offense overall. They've only played two games, both on the road, and there's a long way to go here. 

 

 

 

You say your disappointed with the Wr's. Thing is when you give out all those big contracts and still have to "shore up" the D , the area without the "big contracts" probably is going to suffer. So when they lost A.H. and the other highly paid TE is off the field as much as he's on it , the Pats were stuck a bit here. Those guys you name are a late 2nd rounder , a 4th rounder and a UDFA. Considering your teams success drafting WR's , it should be about what you expected.

[amfootball]

You say your disappointed with the Wr's. Thing is when you give out all those big contracts and still have to

[dw49]

 

You say your disappointed with the Wr's. Thing is when you give out all those big contracts and still have to

 

 

 

Yes............

[amfootball]

Yes............

Where did my response go?    Left you hanging.

 

Let's see if I can rehash. I agree with your post but I don't think the Pats don't have the money to get Brady the stud WRs, it is just that they have now focused on the run game and D given the last two SB champs won that way. I think they get that Brady is 37 and they need to preserve however many years he has left. He can't sling it 50 times anymore and they win. I think those days are over and I don't think the Pats want to go back to those days as they did not yield on championships. Brady is good enough to orchestrate wins even with this case of WRs who should be better than last year. At least I hope so. So main point is not that the Pats don't have the money, they are just constructing their team differently with an aging superstar QB behind center.

[dw49]

Where did my response go?    Left you hanging.

 

Let's see if I can rehash. I agree with your post but I don't think the Pats don't have the money to get Brady the stud WRs, it is just that they have now focused on the run game and D given the last two SB champs won that way. I think they get that Brady is 37 and they need to preserve however many years he has left. He can't sling it 50 times anymore and they win. I think those days are over and I don't think the Pats want to go back to those days as they did not yield on championships. Brady is good enough to orchestrate wins even with this case of WRs who should be better than last year. At least I hope so. So main point is not that the Pats don't have the money, they are just constructing their team differently with an aging superstar QB behind center.

 

 

When you say "don't have the money " are you talking about Kraft's pocketbook or cap room. I'm referring to "cap room" when I say they can't "finance" everything. So I'm pretty much saying that WR is not a top priority spending the available cap room. As we saw , they spent a bunch on Revis. If you also are talking cap room , then I don't know why you would be trying to make that point to me as I said pretty much the exact thing. If you are thinking I said Robert Kraft doesn't "have the money " to pay a good WR , that's not what I implied.

[amfootball]

When you say "don't have the money " are you talking about Kraft's pocketbook or cap room. I'm referring to "cap room" when I say they can't "finance" everything. So I'm pretty much saying that WR is not a top priority spending the available cap room. As we saw , they spent a bunch on Revis. If you also are talking cap room , then I don't know why you would be trying to make that point to me as I said pretty much the exact thing. If you are thinking I said Robert Kraft doesn't "have the money " to pay a good WR , that's not what I implied.

I am not talking either. I am saying that Pats have been planning to have this type of team now for a few years. You cannot have superstars on both sides of the ball in the cap/FA era. No team does. So back in 2007-2011 they went O heavy and relied on Brady and made two super bowls but lost both. Now the focus is run game and defense.

[dw49]

I am not talking either. I am saying that Pats have been planning to have this type of team now for a few years. You cannot have superstars on both sides of the ball in the cap/FA era. No team does. So back in 2007-2011 they went O heavy and relied on Brady and made two super bowls but lost both. Now the focus is run game and defense.

 

 

Getting to two SB's is pretty darn good. Plus one loss was a bit fluky IMO. But I get your point.

[LordHelpOurColts]

Yikes...couldn't even light up the Raiders today. That is not good.

[amfootball]

Getting to two SB's is pretty darn good. Plus one loss was a bit fluky IMO. But I get your point.

Yeah, it is. But those days are over with this make shift OL. Would rather win 16-9 than 38-28.

[ViriLudant]

Yikes...couldn't even light up the Raiders today. That is not good.

ROFL

If you put that on Brady, you didn't watch the game. O-line gave him no time. His arm was perfectly fine.

[LordHelpOurColts]

ROFL

If you put that on Brady, you didn't watch the game. O-line gave him no time. His arm was perfectly fine.

 

 

Yawn....

[amfootball]

ROFL

If you put that on Brady, you didn't watch the game. O-line gave him no time. His arm was perfectly fine.

Yeah. I thought Brady played fine. The whole offense struggled inside the red zone. Vareen tripped over his own feet, Gronk dropped a ball in his hands, and then the ground ball snap right before half. The O was moving the ball outside of the first quarter.

[ViriLudant]

Yawn....

Your team is currently playing; why are you posting on a Colts' site?

[Jules]

Yeah, he is declining. It happens to everyone though. 

[GoPats]

Yeah, he is declining. It happens to everyone though. 

 

Whenever someone says anything like "decline" or "slide" in the same sentence with "Brady," I think of this:

 

 

 

There were actually times yesterday where I thought his pocket presence and subtle movement within it were much improved. It hasn't been his arm, IMO, as much as the little side steps and whatnot he takes to clear throwing lanes and buy himself an extra second. He hasn't been doing that well or consistently - the footwork's been off. He seemed to take a step forward yesterday (literally) and made some good downfield throws at times. 

 

We'll see. I think it's still good enough to be what he was in 2001-2004.