0-line must be addressed

[Track Guy]

Our O-line compared to last year is improved but not by enough so far. Getting Thomas back will help and swapping out Satele for Costa/Holmes is probably a slight improvement. Thornton should be slightly better as an RG and a second year player too. But the O-line last year was legitimately one of the worst in the league and needed more of an upgrade than this. I hope Grigson gets something else done.

[gsums]

Could the Colts be looking at signing Mack and drafting a left tackle in the second round.  If the draftpick works out then they would have some flexability with castanzo and not be tied to a huge contract.  If Castanzo has a great year then you would end up with an expensive offensive line but that might not be the end of the world.

[Archer]

There's no doubt that the interior of the line was terrible last year.  However, I think we're underestimating the improvement that can come from removing the two worst elements (Satele and McGlynn).  Of course, we have to replace them with something better (which isn't that hard).  Thornton was terrible, on average, last year, but he improved a lot by the end (after switching from RG to LG on the fly with virtually no TC).  He'll be a star back at RG this year, IMHO.  I was with everyone else in hoping for a De La Puente or Jonathan Goodwin this off-season at center, but it's looking increasingly like we're going with what's on the roster.  I think it's likely that there will still be an improvement at center, regardless.  Holmes and Austin should compete for the spot, with Donald Thomas and Phil Costa available if no one steps up.  IMO, we will use that 3rd round pick (or so) for an OG (Dozier, Richarson, Thomas, Halapio, Steen) that can step in for Donald Thomas if he needs to be the starting center (Plan B)...

[ztboiler]

Our O-line compared to last year is improved but not by enough so far. Getting Thomas back will help and swapping out Satele for Costa/Holmes is probably a slight improvement. Thornton should be slightly better as an RG and a second year player too. But the O-line last year was legitimately one of the worst in the league and needed more of an upgrade than this. I hope Grigson gets something else done.

So many say that they hope something else gets done.  What else can specifically be done to appease the masses who want a quick fix O-line solution?  Very little thought seems to be given to what the market can supply in terms of a specific performance delta.  From my vantage point we can do 2 things to improve at this point.  We can work something out with Mack, and we can draft more linemen.  All the vets we could sign are helpers at this point, not starters.  

 

I guess it's OK to lament where we are - that is a personal prerogative - it just doesn't make sense to expect something that doesn't exist.

[Jonathan24]

So many say that they hope something else gets done.  What else can specifically be done to appease the masses who want a quick fix O-line solution?  Very little thought seems to be given to what the market can supply in terms of a specific performance delta.  From my vantage point we can do 2 things to improve at this point.  We can work something out with Mack, and we can draft more linemen.  All the vets we could sign are helpers at this point, not starters.  

 

I guess it's OK to lament where we are - that is a personal prerogative - it just doesn't make sense to expect something that doesn't exist.

 

I don't think drafting a lineman would help out immediately...  The lineman position is one of the hardest if not the hardest position to come in and be effective.

[TheJACKCOLT]

Just a shout out to all the pathetic little attention whores, who get on here just to make childlike comments about other post. Get a life, this board is to talk about Colts football, nobody is making you read the post, you actually have the option to move on to the next post if you don't want to talk about Colts football. It's really sad that you waste your Junoir high years, just to make comments about another's post, not contributing anything to the conversation. Really sad and what a waste of your and our time. Attention starved, no doubt, but really really sad. Hope your acne clears up and one day you grow up and get to have sex, but for now if you don't like a subject or a particular post, just remember, you don't have to post anything, you can just move along (hopefully like your puberty) be patient, the pubes will come and maybe one day sex, and a whole day without being the victim of the school yard bully.

[JoKeR]

Yes, we need to work on our depth, and need a solid starting Center. Everyone agrees.

It doesn't seem like everyone does. It feels insane that the Colts biggest hole is at Oline and all that's happened so far is a backup was signed and Satele was cut. Addition by subtraction is not enough when it comes to the Oline.

[ztboiler]

I don't think drafting a lineman would help out immediately...  The lineman position is one of the hardest if not the hardest position to come in and be effective.

OK - so you can rule that option out.

[Track Guy]

So many say that they hope something else gets done.  What else can specifically be done to appease the masses who want a quick fix O-line solution?  Very little thought seems to be given to what the market can supply in terms of a specific performance delta.  From my vantage point we can do 2 things to improve at this point.  We can work something out with Mack, and we can draft more linemen.  All the vets we could sign are helpers at this point, not starters.  

 

I guess it's OK to lament where we are - that is a personal prerogative - it just doesn't make sense to expect something that doesn't exist.

 

I think there are other O-lineman who could come in and start for us. Travelle Wharton, for example. Of course he wouldn't be as big a game changer as Mack but he's better than Thornton.

[ztboiler]

I think there are other O-lineman who could come in and start for us. Travelle Wharton, for example. Of course he wouldn't be as big a game changer as Mack but he's better than Thornton.

Certainly is a quality name, but he's not even sure he wants to keep playing at this point.  Installing a 33 yr. old rental in front of a rapidly improving Thornton may not be a good strategy for building an O-line either.

[George Costanza III]

Why is this hard to understand, For two years all we've heard from Grigson/Pagano we must Protect Luck better,priority #1.

nonsense, Do you see any results? I don't, I see run for your life Luck and you have 1.5 seconds before you do it. The Colts interior Oline

STINKS,SUCKS. We need a Center and a Guard with TALENT. Sign Mack for whatever it takes you can redo his contract next year

to make it more cap friendly. Draft a Guard with the 2nd round pick Gabe Jackson would be nice. Now you turn the biggest weakness into a strength. Control the Clock, maybe even allow Trent Richardson to become the Hammer they thought they traded

for. How much BETTER would Andrew Luck be, if he had time to sit in the pocket. Think of the Colts with an actual running game,

defenses won't know what to defend pass,run or Luck running. I know its been a long time since the Colts had a good Oline and

Polian left us with a crap Oline. Peyton's quick release covered up a huge weakness, after Tarik Glenn retired the Oline was never

the same. Some Colts fans seem to think its their money that would pay for Mack. Sure there are other holes but if Luck gets hurt

nothing else will matter will it. Finally think JJ Watt and Clowney stunting to the middle of the Colts line.

[jvan1973]

Why is this hard to understand, For two years all we've heard from Grigson/Pagano we must Protect Luck better,priority #1.

nonsense, Do you see any results? I don't, I see run for your life Luck and you have 1.5 seconds before you do it. The Colts interior Oline

STINKS,SUCKS. We need a Center and a Guard with TALENT. Sign Mack for whatever it takes you can redo his contract next year

to make it more cap friendly. Draft a Guard with the 2nd round pick Gabe Jackson would be nice. Now you turn the biggest weakness into a strength. Control the Clock, maybe even allow Trent Richardson to become the Hammer they thought they traded

for. How much BETTER would Andrew Luck be, if he had time to sit in the pocket. Think of the Colts with an actual running game,

defenses won't know what to defend pass,run or Luck running. I know its been a long time since the Colts had a good Oline and

Polian left us with a crap Oline. Peyton's quick release covered up a huge weakness, after Tarik Glenn retired the Oline was never

the same. Some Colts fans seem to think its their money that would pay for Mack. Sure there are other holes but if Luck gets hurt

nothing else will matter will it. Finally think JJ Watt and Clowney stunting to the middle of the Colts line.

Just like that huh... you should apply for GM job

[YOUR GM]

So many say that they hope something else gets done.  What else can specifically be done to appease the masses who want a quick fix O-line solution?  Very little thought seems to be given to what the market can supply in terms of a specific performance delta.  From my vantage point we can do 2 things to improve at this point.  We can work something out with Mack, and we can draft more linemen.  All the vets we could sign are helpers at this point, not starters.  

 

I guess it's OK to lament where we are - that is a personal prerogative - it just doesn't make sense to expect something that doesn't exist.

 

 

I would've liked to have seen an aggressive push for Asamoah earlier in free agency. I'm more frustrated that they once again chose to shop at the flea market for talent on the line late, rather than show they're serious about improving it with a splash signing early. What makes it even more infuriating is the fact that they'll probably still stubbornly run the ball, citing that dated, "run the ball, stop the run" mantra, when their actions in free agency convey the exact opposite. Our big name signing on offense was a receiver, not a linemen. Think about that

[Superman]

Certainly is a quality name, but he's not even sure he wants to keep playing at this point.  Installing a 33 yr. old rental in front of a rapidly improving Thornton may not be a good strategy for building an O-line either.

 

In front of Thornton? Not necessarily. But as depth in case Thomas doesn't stay healthy, sure. I like Reitz, but he can't stay healthy either.

 

Thing about Wharton is that he can probably go to a dozen teams and be written in as the starter, no questions asked. We have a different situation here, with some young guys that we want to have on the field if they're healthy. 

[Superman]

I would've liked to have seen an aggressive push for Asamoah earlier in free agency. I'm more frustrated that they once again chose to shop at the flea market for talent on the line late, rather than show they're serious about improving it with a splash signing early. What makes it even more infuriating is the fact that they'll probably still stubbornly run the ball, citing that dated, "run the ball, stop the run" mantra, when their actions in free agency convey the exact opposite. Our big name signing on offense was a receiver, not a linemen. Think about that

 

Your statements belie the fact that free agency is only a week old.

 

Also, while I'd like a veteran guard for competition and depth, I don't think we needed to spend the $5.5m/year that Asamoah got.

[ztboiler]

In front of Thornton? Not necessarily. But as depth in case Thomas doesn't stay healthy, sure. I like Reitz, but he can't stay healthy either.

 

Thing about Wharton is that he can probably go to a dozen teams and be written in as the starter, no questions asked. We have a different situation here, with some young guys that we want to have on the field if they're healthy. 

Yep, you nailed it.  We aren't in the market for a starting guard and Wharton won't put retirement on the shelf to be "quality depth".

[ztboiler]

I would've liked to have seen an aggressive push for Asamoah earlier in free agency. I'm more frustrated that they once again chose to shop at the flea market for talent on the line late, rather than show they're serious about improving it with a splash signing early. What makes it even more infuriating is the fact that they'll probably still stubbornly run the ball, citing that dated, "run the ball, stop the run" mantra, when their actions in free agency convey the exact opposite. Our big name signing on offense was a receiver, not a linemen. Think about that

That's fair about Asamoah, I just don't think we were ever in the market to sign a starting UFA lineman this year.  I get why that is what everyone wanted, though. Grigson clearly has a plan, and he is right not to short circuit it if he believes it is still on course to work.  He watched the tape (I was with him  ), and decided that Thornton showed him what he was looking for in the last 3rd of the season, and really shined in the KC playoff game....and he was already confident in Thomas.  So, he goes to year 2 of his O-line revamp plan needing to establish a long term center.  He added a contingency plan with competent starting experience who may yet be an ascending player himself to go with a talented but unproven 2nd year player that he believes is the long term solution.   Good plan, but you kind of had to be there with the whiteboard, DVR and all.   

[lollygagger8]

It doesn't seem like everyone does. It feels insane that the Colts biggest hole is at Oline and all that's happened so far is a backup was signed and Satele was cut. Addition by subtraction is not enough when it comes to the Oline.

 

I agree. Plus we waived a guard Zach Allen before we even make it to training camp???? Whhhhhhyyyyyyyy?? 

[BrentMc11]

I agree. Plus we waived a guard Zach Allen before we even make it to training camp???? Whhhhhhyyyyyyyy?? 

Must be way out of shape?  HMMMM...Moonlighting?

 

[YOUR GM]

Your statements belie the fact that free agency is only a week old.

 

Also, while I'd like a veteran guard for competition and depth, I don't think we needed to spend the $5.5m/year that Asamoah got.

 

 

I think spending 5.5 mil a year on one of the better guards in the league is money much better spent than these 1-2 year contracts we hand out on positions we don't even need upgraded immediately. I'm not saying it's an "either/or" scenario, I realize we might have been able to do both. I just think Grigson wasted much of last week flirting with Mack until he realized it wasn't going to happen. By the time he figured it out, however, the handful of impact guys on the interior line in free agency had already been snatched up. And while free agency is only a week old, the damage has already been done. Most of the coveted G's/C's are already gone. Now we're just better served drafting and crossing our fingers that we landed a day one starter. Otherwise, I'd say Grigson blew this off-season, if we go into next season with the line still as our primary weakness

[jvan1973]

I think spending 5.5 mil a year on one of the better guards in the league is money much better spent than these 1-2 year contracts we hand out on positions we don't even need upgraded immediately. I'm not saying it's an "either/or" scenario, I realize we might have been able to do both. I just think Grigson wasted much of last week flirting with Mack until he realized it wasn't going to happen. By the time he figured it out, however, the handful of impact guys on the interior line in free agency had already been snatched up. And while free agency is only a week old, the damage has already been done. Most of the coveted G's/C's are already gone. Now we're just better served drafting and crossing our fingers that we landed a day one starter. Otherwise, I'd say Grigson blew this off-season, if we go into next season with the line still as our primary weakness

absolute and complete speculation.

Who are the impact interior lineman that have been signed in your opinion

[YOUR GM]

That's fair about Asamoah, I just don't think we were ever in the market to sign a starting UFA lineman this year.  I get why that is what everyone wanted, though. Grigson clearly has a plan, and he is right not to short circuit it if he believes it is still on course to work.  He watched the tape (I was with him  ), and decided that Thornton showed him what he was looking for in the last 3rd of the season, and really shined in the KC playoff game....and he was already confident in Thomas.  So, he goes to year 2 of his O-line revamp plan needing to establish a long term center.  He added a contingency plan with competent starting experience who may yet be an ascending player himself to go with a talented but unproven 2nd year player that he believes is the long term solution.   Good plan, but you kind of had to be there with the whiteboard, DVR and all.   

 

 

Fair assessment. I just don't like the overall uncertainty of our current lineup. WIll Thomas be the same coming back, and can he stay healthy? Was Khaled Holmes really that bad last year that he couldn't get any reps, or was he just a victim of numbers and politics? Will Thornton make that leap or is he still inconsistent? Where is our depth if none of these guys pan out as starters? I just don't see it right now (And I realize i'm saying this with the rest of free agency and the draft still to come.) My only issue is, the front office knew the line was a mess the past 2 seasons, and have come out time and time again saying that it's the top priority this off-season. But so far to date, they've cut fat and done little to replace or upgrade it. Too many question marks at too many positions not to try and immediately acquire starter level talent on the interior line, yet we sign another receiver (even though we're supposedly going to be a run first team) and grab one backup center to replace another. Our actions do not match our words, and it annoys me to no end

[YOUR GM]

absolute and complete speculation.

 

 

I never stated it as fact. Just my opinions and frustrations with this off-season so far

[wordofmouth]

Fair assessment. I just don't like the overall uncertainty of our current lineup. WIll Thomas be the same coming back, and can he stay healthy? Was Khaled Holmes really that bad last year that he couldn't get any reps, or was he just a victim of numbers and politics? Will Thornton make that leap or is he still inconsistent? Where is our depth if none of these guys pan out as starters? I just don't see it right now (And I realize i'm saying this with the rest of free agency and the draft still to come.) My only issue is, the front office knew the line was a mess the past 2 seasons, and have come out time and time again saying that it's the top priority this off-season. But so far to date, they've cut fat and done little to replace or upgrade it. Too many question marks at too many positions not to try and immediately acquire starter level talent on the interior line, yet we sign another receiver (even though we're supposedly going to be a run first team) and grab one backup center to replace another. Our actions do not match our words, and it annoys me to no end

I think this is a very fair post. Yes, there is a lot of offseason to come, but you would think there

would be a little more sense of urgency. The middle of line is in need of huge improvement. Holmes and Thorton should be given the chance to COMPETE for the job but certainly have not earned the right to be GIVEN the starting job. The organization seems set to go with Thomas at left guard, which is fine, but even he is hardly a proven starter.

Whether it be at Center ( which is preferable ) or Right Guard, we need someone who we KNOW will be an upgrade from last year. Right now, and I know it is early, we are still just hoping.

[ztboiler]

Fair assessment. I just don't like the overall uncertainty of our current lineup. WIll Thomas be the same coming back, and can he stay healthy? Was Khaled Holmes really that bad last year that he couldn't get any reps, or was he just a victim of numbers and politics? Will Thornton make that leap or is he still inconsistent? Where is our depth if none of these guys pan out as starters? I just don't see it right now (And I realize i'm saying this with the rest of free agency and the draft still to come.) My only issue is, the front office knew the line was a mess the past 2 seasons, and have come out time and time again saying that it's the top priority this off-season. But so far to date, they've cut fat and done little to replace or upgrade it. Too many question marks at too many positions not to try and immediately acquire starter level talent on the interior line, yet we sign another receiver (even though we're supposedly going to be a run first team) and grab one backup center to replace another. Our actions do not match our words, and it annoys me to no end

We are in much better shape for depth than it seems you are giving us credit for.  Reitz is a good lineman - starter caliber, better than most of what the league has as their first guy off the bench. Injuries are an issue, but we are not counting on him to be a starter.  Nixon is talented and more versatile than we realized, and played competently on short notice.  I'll take him as my 7th lineman all day after a full off-season in the program.  Costa has started 20 games.  He has some good tape and bad tape, but I'd rather have an ascending player with some experience - they do get better - when I'm building a line, than a similarly flawed vet who you know can't get any better.  Look around the league and you'll like our top 8 lineman better than most.

[Superman]

I think spending 5.5 mil a year on one of the better guards in the league is money much better spent than these 1-2 year contracts we hand out on positions we don't even need upgraded immediately. I'm not saying it's an "either/or" scenario, I realize we might have been able to do both. I just think Grigson wasted much of last week flirting with Mack until he realized it wasn't going to happen. By the time he figured it out, however, the handful of impact guys on the interior line in free agency had already been snatched up. And while free agency is only a week old, the damage has already been done. Most of the coveted G's/C's are already gone. Now we're just better served drafting and crossing our fingers that we landed a day one starter. Otherwise, I'd say Grigson blew this off-season, if we go into next season with the line still as our primary weakness

 

Again, we were never going to sign a high profile veteran guard. Doesn't make sense for us. And there are still a handful of veteran centers that we can sign, other than Mack. The only one that hit the market and is gone now is EDS. There's still BdlP, Goodwin, Montgomery, etc. 

 

Your argument isn't even hyperbole; it's just wrong.

[Blueblazes]

I think spending 5.5 mil a year on one of the better guards in the league is money much better spent than these 1-2 year contracts we hand out on positions we don't even need upgraded immediately. I'm not saying it's an "either/or" scenario, I realize we might have been able to do both. I just think Grigson wasted much of last week flirting with Mack until he realized it wasn't going to happen. By the time he figured it out, however, the handful of impact guys on the interior line in free agency had already been snatched up. And while free agency is only a week old, the damage has already been done. Most of the coveted G's/C's are already gone. Now we're just better served drafting and crossing our fingers that we landed a day one starter. Otherwise, I'd say Grigson blew this off-season, if we go into next season with the line still as our primary weakness

You are correct in your assesment. There really is no good reason for the O line not being a high priority in free agency. The reason I believe is that there weren't as many first rate  interior O linemen on the market this year----is why Grigs didn't move on it. But we still must improve in maybe the most important position group in football. Even going from less than adequate (Reitz, McGlynn, etc.) to average (Thomas) will help. But we must get a true center.

[corgi]

Free agent C Brian De La Puente is visiting the Redskins.

 

Per Rotoworld

[Superman]

You are correct in your assesment. There really is no good reason for the O line not being a high priority in free agency. The reason I believe is that there weren't as many first rate  interior O linemen on the market this year----is why Grigs didn't move on it. But we still must improve in maybe the most important position group in football. Even going from less than adequate (Reitz, McGlynn, etc.) to average (Thomas) will help. But we must get a true center.

 

Reitz was good last year, just hurt too often. McGlynn and Link are gone, along with Satele. We do need a center, but that's really the only concern at this point. 

 

The idea that there's something wrong with adding the players we did add is completely mistaken, which is my beef with the criticism in the first place.

[#12]

 What makes it even more infuriating is the fact that they'll probably still stubbornly run the ball, citing that dated, "run the ball, stop the run" mantra, when their actions in free agency convey the exact opposite.

 

That's half the problem.  Pep's play calling + Richardson was half the problem.  In 2012, I recall you arguing the O-line wasn't as bad as it appeared to be - Arians' play calling set them up to fail.  IMO that trend carried over into 2013 with things getting worse following the Richardson acquisition.  With the shift in offensive philosophy toward the end of the season, the sacks dropped.  That's not to say we couldn't use more talent, but there's more to the equation than just personnel. 

[pgt_rob]

So. The two spots that we sucked at last season, we are going to suck again this season? Costa, is he an improvement over Satele? Who ever is officially filling in at Right Guard, is he an improvement over McGlynn? Whoever that may be, he was a depth player last season. This may be another long season ahead of us.

[lennymoore24]

I am with you all that we need to have a better offensive line.  My question is, who can we sign that is better?  Clearly, Alex Mack would be, but I think 10 mill a year for a center is crazy!  So whether we get him or not, who out there is better?

[NewEra]

They take forever to fully heal. I broke a couple on my 4 wheeler at Badlands, and it hurt just to breathe for at least a month, to move around it took months to feel ok, let alone full contact tackling.

That's cause you were riding a 4wheeler ;). I'm a mx man myself.

[NewEra]

I am with you all that we need to have a better offensive line. My question is, who can we sign that is better? Clearly, Alex Mack would be, but I think 10 mill a year for a center is crazy! So whether we get him or not, who out there is better?

Still easy to get him if we really wanted him. We could sign a guy like Montgomery for a year then sign Mack next year if he signs his transition tag. Of if they drop the tag we can sign him outright. But why the sudden obsession? Wish we would of thought about that instead of drafting Holmes last year.

[YOUR GM]

Again, we were never going to sign a high profile veteran guard. Doesn't make sense for us. And there are still a handful of veteran centers that we can sign, other than Mack. The only one that hit the market and is gone now is EDS. There's still BdlP, Goodwin, Montgomery, etc.

Your argument isn't even hyperbole; it's just wrong.

Why wouldn't signing a high profile guard make sense for us? Who on our roster is so proven that they're absolved of fighting for a starting spot? What has Thornton done that makes him immuned to having to compete for his job? Thomas basically didn't play last year.

Look, you can call my argument whatever you like, but are you willing to come back here a year from now and admit this off-season was handled poorly, should we not make anymore significant moves on the O-line? Our plan to be an upper tier offense right now is based entirely on hope and nothing else. Our line needs players, and right now, I'm not sure we have them. I'm glad you're a little more confident we do, but that doesn't appear to be based on anything other than hope, at this point -- Hope that Thomas stays healthy, hope that Holmes is a starter level talent and hope that Thornton will improve significantly

[Superman]

Why wouldn't signing a high profile guard make sense for us? Who on our roster is so proven that they're absolved of fighting for a starting spot? What has Thornton done that makes him immuned to having to compete for his job? Thomas basically didn't play last year.

Look, you can call my argument whatever you like, but are you willing to come back here a year from now and admit this off-season was handled poorly, should we not make anymore significant moves on the O-line? Our plan to be an upper tier offense right now is based entirely on hope and nothing else. Our line needs players, and right now, I'm not sure we have them. I'm glad you're a little more confident we do, but that doesn't appear to be based on anything other than hope, at this point -- Hope that Thomas stays healthy, hope that Holmes is a starter level talent and hope that Thornton will improve significantly

 

Thornton and Thomas aren't entrenched to the point that they don't need to earn a starting spot, but they are penciled in. And that makes sense, because they both showed good things last year. But you'll recall me saying that veteran competition and depth makes sense as well. 

 

But that's different from signing a high profile guy for $5-6m/year. 

 

And what's ironic is that you claim we spent money on positions we didn't really need. We're thin at receiver, and we got Nicks on a low level contract. ILB was the worst unit on our defense last year, and while Jackson isn't my favorite player ever, he represents a potential upgrade right up the middle of the defense. And Jones is simply a great player at a very important position, and gives us a replacement for Redding. And these are all different than a costly veteran guard, because you can platoon WR, ILB and DT. You can't platoon offensive linemen; signing another guard basically relegates one of the guys that we think will be our starters to the bench.

 

The question mark is at center. Holmes is an unknown commodity, at least to us fans, because we haven't seen him. And that's also the position that's hurt us the most the past two years, so it's important to have a solution there. If we don't add anyone, I hope Holmes is good enough. If he's not, then I'll be disappointed in Grigson because we had opportunities to add a proven starter. But you draft players anticipating that they'll make a difference for you when they get on the field. It would be awesome to ease Holmes in, and I think we should add a vet center, but just because we haven't yet doesn't mean we won't.

 

And then there's the Costa signing. I'm not impressed, but like many have said, it's not a foregone conclusion that he won't be good for us.

 

My point is that just because Grigson didn't sign the guys you think he should have, it doesn't mean that the offensive line won't be improved, and it certainly doesn't mean he blew the offseason. 

[YOUR GM]

Thornton and Thomas aren't entrenched to the point that they don't need to earn a starting spot, but they are penciled in. And that makes sense, because they both showed good things last year. But you'll recall me saying that veteran competition and depth makes sense as well.

But that's different from signing a high profile guy for $5-6m/year.

And what's ironic is that you claim we spent money on positions we didn't really need. We're thin at receiver, and we got Nicks on a low level contract. ILB was the worst unit on our defense last year, and while Jackson isn't my favorite player ever, he represents a potential upgrade right up the middle of the defense. And Jones is simply a great player at a very important position, and gives us a replacement for Redding. And these are all different than a costly veteran guard, because you can platoon WR, ILB and DT. You can't platoon offensive linemen; signing another guard basically relegates one of the guys that we think will be our starters to the bench.

The question mark is at center. Holmes is an unknown commodity, at least to us fans, because we haven't seen him. And that's also the position that's hurt us the most the past two years, so it's important to have a solution there. If we don't add anyone, I hope Holmes is good enough. If he's not, then I'll be disappointed in Grigson because we had opportunities to add a proven starter. But you draft players anticipating that they'll make a difference for you when they get on the field. It would be awesome to ease Holmes in, and I think we should add a vet center, but just because we haven't yet doesn't mean we won't.

And then there's the Costa signing. I'm not impressed, but like many have said, it's not a foregone conclusion that he won't be good for us.

My point is that just because Grigson didn't sign the guys you think he should have, it doesn't mean that the offensive line won't be improved, and it certainly doesn't mean he blew the offseason.

I'm not saying whether the off-season is blown or not yet. What I'm saying is, if we suck again on the offensive line, with him having made minimal moves on said line, that it then, indeed, qualifies as him blowing this off-season, in my opinion.

And I don't feel we were thin at receiver. At least not anymore thin than the offensive line is currently. I felt more confident going into next season with our young receivers (before the nicks signing) than I did the o-line. Also, Jackson appears to be more of the same of what we already had. Coverage backer who has struggled against the run lately. How is that an upgrade? That was more of a reach to me than any high profile signing we could've made on the line.

And I have no issue with the Arthur Jones signing

[Superman]

I'm not saying whether the off-season is blown or not yet. What I'm saying is, if we suck again on the offensive line, with him having made minimal moves on said line, that it then, indeed, qualifies as him blowing this off-season, in my opinion.

And I don't feel we were thin at receiver. At least not anymore thin than the offensive line is currently. I felt more confident going into next season with our young receivers (before the nicks signing) than I did the o-line. Also, Jackson appears to be more of the same of what we already had. Coverage backer who has struggled against the run lately. How is that an upgrade? That was more of a reach to me than any high profile signing we could've made on the line.

And I have no issue with the Arthur Jones signing

 

I disagree with you, fiercely, about our receiver corps. The Nicks signing is perfect -- low cost, high upside, and we don't have to rely on everything going perfect with Reggie, we don't have to count on the development of three young guys who struggled last year, and he adds an element that Hilton doesn't bring on big downs. But it's mostly irrelevant, because he hardly cost anything, and that signing doesn't prevent us from doing anything else that we need to do.

 

At ILB, I think the coverage was a much bigger problem than the run stopping. We got abused by several teams because we couldn't cover backs and TEs in the middle of the field and in the flats. Freeman wasn't great in coverage. Angerer, Sheppard, Harvey and pretty much everyone else was terrible in coverage. If I had to choose, I'd have taken Dansby, but I understand why Jackson was brought in, and I think he'll help tremendously.

 

But overall, we still need to improve the center play. You could argue that we've taken a big step toward fixing the problem by getting rid of Satele. Can't imagine it being worse than he was last year. If we move forward with Holmes, it shows a commitment to the strategy Grigson put into place last year. The only question is whether Holmes is ready for primetime, and none of us knows the answer to that. As such, I'd love to bring in a veteran stopgap. And getting back to why I responded in the first place, I think it's very sensational to decide that Grigson has missed his opportunity to improve the center position. I'd have loved EDS, but honestly, adding a stopgap like Goodwin or Montgomery is probably a better strategy for our team right now, and I said that before free agency started.

 

We're only nine days into free agency. There are still good players that fit what I think Grigson's offseason blueprint is (and that doesn't include a high profile guard or center, I don't think). If the interior line play sucks in 2014, then I'll be right with you taking issue with Grigson's plan. But I don't think his plan has been fully realized to this point, and even if it is (and it's not, I assure you; we're only nine days into free agency), there's still hope that Holmes and/or Costa are clear improvements.

[Dark Superman]

Just by the Colts showing some sort of interest in Mack, you can tell that Grigson means business..

Patience!

[lollygagger8]

That's cause you were riding a 4wheeler ;). I'm a mx man myself.

Lemme guess you were a biker too.....cuz I was a skater. lol 

 

Mortal enemies for life! lolz