0-line must be addressed

[NewEra]

Lemme guess you were a biker too.....cuz I was a skater. lol

Mortal enemies for life! lolz

Lol, you got it! Although I skates when I lived out west. Moved to the fort when I was 12 and started racing bmx! Quads are fun though. I had one that I used to bomb all the triples, table tops and even a big 75' step up with.

[lollygagger8]

Lol, you got it! Although I skates when I lived out west. Moved to the fort when I was 12 and started racing bmx! Quads are fun though. I had one that I used to bomb all the triples, table tops and even a big 75' step up with.

 

As in Fort Wayne? If so, I'm guessing you were frequented Rock Hill back in the day. 

[NewEra]

As in Fort Wayne? If so, I'm guessing you were frequented Rock Hill back in the day.

Heck yeah! But traveled around a little also. Raced a few national races. Wasn't as good as my dude Scotty but he eventually got the #1 national plate. Best I did was #1 state

[Blueblazes]

Reitz was good last year, just hurt too often. McGlynn and Link are gone, along with Satele. We do need a center, but that's really the only concern at this point. 

 

The idea that there's something wrong with adding the players we did add is completely mistaken, which is my beef with the criticism in the first place.

I'm fine with the signings we've made since none really broke the bank. My issue is that we are ignoring the huge elephant in the room--that being our O-line and it's many troubles during 2013. We add Thomas (if he stays healthy)--but he's not more than ''reliable". Reitz was not impressive to me at all, and wondered if I missed something, so I checked his PFF guard grade and it was 5.1. As a point of reference, a 5.1 is just ahead of our old fried Pollack at 4.9--while average guards like Schwartz (KC) graded out at 18 and Wharton (33 yrs old and retiring) graded out 20.5. If we think Reitz is ''good'' imagine what a really good O lineman would look like to us. If we go into the season with the current line, it will be better (w/Thomas in at G and Satele gone from Center), but it won't be championship caliber.

[CopenhagenColt]

I still don't get why everyone has so high hopes for Holmes. We all saw how awful our O-line was last year, and still Holmes was not in the mix. So suddenly he's ready to be our starter and an upgrade compared to Satele?? That seems like strange reasoning to me. If he's an upgrade compared to Satele now, why didn't he play last year, and what happened to him these last months that catapulted his level of play so much?

 

Getting Thomas back is a boost. Let's hope he can stay healthy.

Thornton was awful last year. He looked like a ragdoll more than a few times. Sure he'll probably improve, but he also needs a lot of improvement to be an NFL starter.

 

We're very well covered at QB, TE, WR and RB and we've improved our D with Jackson & Jones. The missing piece is the O-line, and if that gets fixed, we're going to be putting a lot of points on the board.

I'm hoping Grigson has a plan to fix it.

[pgt_rob]

I still don't get why everyone has so high hopes for Holmes. We all saw how awful our O-line was last year, and still Holmes was not in the mix. So suddenly he's ready to be our starter and an upgrade compared to Satele?? That seems like strange reasoning to me. If he's an upgrade compared to Satele now, why didn't he play last year, and what happened to him these last months that catapulted his level of play so much?

 

Getting Thomas back is a boost. Let's hope he can stay healthy.

Thornton was awful last year. He looked like a ragdoll more than a few times. Sure he'll probably improve, but he also needs a lot of improvement to be an NFL starter.

 

We're very well covered at QB, TE, WR and RB and we've improved our D with Jackson & Jones. The missing piece is the O-line, and if that gets fixed, we're going to be putting a lot of points on the board.

I'm hoping Grigson has a plan to fix it.

 

 

That's what I've been saying too. We have players that were depth last year and are going to be starters this year? Going to be a long season...

[Superman]

I'm fine with the signings we've made since none really broke the bank. My issue is that we are ignoring the huge elephant in the room--that being our O-line and it's many troubles during 2013. We add Thomas (if he stays healthy)--but he's not more than ''reliable". Reitz was not impressive to me at all, and wondered if I missed something, so I checked his PFF guard grade and it was 5.1. As a point of reference, a 5.1 is just ahead of our old fried Pollack at 4.9--while average guards like Schwartz (KC) graded out at 18 and Wharton (33 yrs old and retiring) graded out 20.5. If we think Reitz is ''good'' imagine what a really good O lineman would look like to us. If we go into the season with the current line, it will be better (w/Thomas in at G and Satele gone from Center), but it won't be championship caliber.

 

A 5.1 from PFF is above average. Definitely starter material. Not sure what the Mike Pollak reference is supposed to mean, but he's a good guard as well, and earned another contract after a strong year. 

 

Schwartz and Wharton were among the very best guards in the league last year. Not sure why you're calling them average. But we have guards. I get that Thomas is a question mark; not sure how many times I should mention that, or if I should increase the font so everyone can see it. But he's still a good player, assuming he's healthy, and he was brought here to be the starter. Thornton is a young player who showed promise, and it makes sense to continue developing him, rather than spending long-term starters money on someone like Schwartz. I think we'll be okay at guard, and if you want an insurance policy alongside Thomas and Thornton, a player of Reitz's caliber is a good and affordable option. I would like to have another vet -- Wharton would be great, but he'd want a guaranteed starting spot -- but guard isn't the problem.

 

Again, it's my opinion that the problem, the real question mark, is at center. If we don't get better center play, our line won't be improved enough. But I think our guard play will be fine, assuming health. Getting rid of McGlynn and Satele was the first step, and now we can move the young guys in and let them show what they can do. That makes me nervous at center, and I'm still holding out hope that we add someone else, but at guard, it doesn't make sense -- nor do I think it's necessary -- to bring in someone like Schwartz at this point.

 

By the way, where did you read/hear that Wharton is retiring?

[Superman]

I still don't get why everyone has so high hopes for Holmes. We all saw how awful our O-line was last year, and still Holmes was not in the mix. So suddenly he's ready to be our starter and an upgrade compared to Satele?? That seems like strange reasoning to me. If he's an upgrade compared to Satele now, why didn't he play last year, and what happened to him these last months that catapulted his level of play so much?

 

Getting Thomas back is a boost. Let's hope he can stay healthy.

Thornton was awful last year. He looked like a ragdoll more than a few times. Sure he'll probably improve, but he also needs a lot of improvement to be an NFL starter.

 

We're very well covered at QB, TE, WR and RB and we've improved our D with Jackson & Jones. The missing piece is the O-line, and if that gets fixed, we're going to be putting a lot of points on the board.

I'm hoping Grigson has a plan to fix it.

 

Who has high hopes for Holmes? Everyone is nervous about him.

 

I don't agree with your rationale that, because he didn't get on the field last year, he must not be any good. But I have no idea how he'll perform. I'm simply optimistic that he'll be able to play well.

[Blueblazes]

A 5.1 from PFF is above average. Definitely starter material. Not sure what the Mike Pollak reference is supposed to mean, but he's a good guard as well, and earned another contract after a strong year. 

 

Schwartz and Wharton were among the very best guards in the league last year. Not sure why you're calling them average. But we have guards. I get that Thomas is a question mark; not sure how many times I should mention that, or if I should increase the font so everyone can see it. But he's still a good player, assuming he's healthy, and he was brought here to be the starter. Thornton is a young player who showed promise, and it makes sense to continue developing him, rather than spending long-term starters money on someone like Schwartz. I think we'll be okay at guard, and if you want an insurance policy alongside Thomas and Thornton, a player of Reitz's caliber is a good and affordable option. I would like to have another vet -- Wharton would be great, but he'd want a guaranteed starting spot -- but guard isn't the problem.

 

Again, it's my opinion that the problem, the real question mark, is at center. If we don't get better center play, our line won't be improved enough. But I think our guard play will be fine, assuming health. Getting rid of McGlynn and Satele was the first step, and now we can move the young guys in and let them show what they can do. That makes me nervous at center, and I'm still holding out hope that we add someone else, but at guard, it doesn't make sense -- nor do I think it's necessary -- to bring in someone like Schwartz at this point.

 

By the way, where did you read/hear that Wharton is retiring?

Here's the article on  Panthers' Wharton from last week. It actually says he was considering retirement-so don't know if he's made it official or not yet (or if he will). http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/03/11/4757750/carolina-panthers-guardcenter.html. I agree that fixing the center position will correct a lot of the problems. Just don't agree that we are set at guard either.

[Superman]

Here's the article on  Panthers' Wharton from last week. It actually says he was considering retirement-so don't know if he's made it official or not yet (or if he will). http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/03/11/4757750/carolina-panthers-guardcenter.html. I agree that fixing the center position will correct a lot of the problems. Just don't agree that we are set at guard either.

 

I never suggested that we're set at guard. I just think that the presumed strategy of starting Thomas and Thornton at guard will be sufficient, and those two players have some upside if there's a competent center between them. My questions at guard are about depth in the event that Thomas isn't 100%, or experiences a setback. Because of that, I don't think it makes sense for us to spend money for a top rated guard.

 

At this point, I'd be happy giving Goodwin or Montgomery a one year deal. But the questions about Holmes will still exist. 

[the cardinal]

At this point, I'd be happy giving Goodwin or Montgomery a one year deal. But the questions about Holmes will still exist. 

 

Is Montgomery actually healthy right now? I read he was released with a failed physical due to his knee and wrist.  Depending on when he hurt them, the knee problem might explain his drop off this year and wrist some of the high snaps. 

 

Maybe that's just wishfully thinking though... If it was that simple, I doubt the Redskins would've released him.

[Superman]

Is Montgomery actually healthy right now? I read he was released with a failed physical due to his knee and wrist.  Depending on when he hurt them, the knee problem might explain his drop off this year and wrist some of the high snaps. 

 

Maybe that's just wishfully thinking though... If it was that simple, I doubt the Redskins would've released him.

 

The Redskins saved about $2m from releasing Montgomery, and they have some young guys they want to transition to. He might not be fully healthy, and that would play into some of the spotty play last year. 

[the cardinal]

The Redskins saved about $2m from releasing Montgomery, and they have some young guys they want to transition to. He might not be fully healthy, and that would play into some of the spotty play last year. 

Ok thanks, that makes sense. While $2M isn't a ton, 31(?) + a down year + injury + a transition plan explains a bit.  He's interesting because he seemed highly regarded just last year and then bam. He suddenly sucks? Their entire line outside of Williams sucks? Huh. Redskin fans swear that's the case, but everywhere I look their line is rated at least top 10...

 

If he's healthy I can't see how he wouldn't be an improvement on Satele.

[Defjamz26]

Center is the bigger issue as opposed to the whole O-line. People forget that Luck was only sacked like 38 times. Tannehill was sacked almost 60 times. It's mostly center that's an issue. Thorton will be better moving back to the guard spot he was drafted to play since Thomas will be back. It's mostly Center now when you're talking about pass protection.

[akcolt]

Until the Mack situation is cleared up I am not sure we are in a position to do anything "big" assuming we are really pursuing him. His agent says he can construct a contract the Browns won't match and Mack has supposed interest in the Colts.

 

I am not sure the sack comparison is as accurate as how many times Luck got hit compared to other QB's I think we all can agree he's a little harder to get to the ground before he can get the ball out than Tannehill and most other QB's. Our O Line has to get better.

 

Costa Thomas and Allen will help but it's still thin. Hopefully play calling will improve as well.

[lollygagger8]

Heck yeah! But traveled around a little also. Raced a few national races. Wasn't as good as my dude Scotty but he eventually got the #1 national plate. Best I did was #1 state

 

That's awesome!! I tried my hand at Rock Hill, but was better at sk8ing <- lol 

[BrentMc11]

That's awesome!! I tried my hand at Rock Hill, but was better at sk8ing <- lol 

I found my thrills....on Blueberry Hill...

 

[CopenhagenColt]

Who has high hopes for Holmes? Everyone is nervous about him.

 

I don't agree with your rationale that, because he didn't get on the field last year, he must not be any good. But I have no idea how he'll perform. I'm simply optimistic that he'll be able to play well.

I think a lot of people on this board has expressed high expectations for him, and several have argued that he should start if we don't get someone like Mack.

 

I honestly don't know if he's any good, as I haven't seen him play. But it does make me wonder why he didn't play last season, given the troubles we had at Center. That tells me that it's highly unlikely that he was better than the other available options, and if he wasn't then, why should we think he will be a few months later? That just seems unlikely to me.

 

If Holmes works out for us, and can be our Center for years to come, that's just great. I just don't believe it before I see it.