Trent needs to get it together

[OJl]

Trent just looks gawd awful!  I have no clue what happened to this guy.  Coming out of Alabama, this guy was a beast!  He looked like a can't miss 1,500 yards rushing/500 yards receiving combo workhorse.  Now he's fumbling with no one touching him and sitting for the rest of the game.  Pathetic! 

 

Damn straight he better get it together!  Grigs gave up our first rounder for this guy but this regime doesn't seem to tolerate non-performance, regardless of reputation or what it cost to acquire you.  If Trent doesn't man up this off-season, Vick Ballard and whoever else is in the backfield will bury Trent.

 

We seriously could have signed Payton Hillis or Willis McGahee and gotten the same results AND kept our first round pick at this rate.

[Narcosys]

his elbow did get hit while switching hands

after he had already switched. It was his right hand that bobbled it. He tried to pass it between hand rather thsn grasp it with both and transfer it that way.

[ColtsFreak]

I give up on him the rest of this season (Hopefully Hoisting the Lombardi).   Maybe next year he might be average with a  whole offseason and training camp with us. If he still stinks up the joint next season cut him.

[krunk]

I wasn't too happy about that play, but a lot of strange stuff happened in that game I'll say that!

[tfunky14]

after he had already switched. It was his right hand that bobbled it. He tried to pass it between hand rather thsn grasp it with both and transfer it that way.

no it was at the same time but he shouldn't had tried to make the switch in traffic

[Stephen]

wish he played more like lacy. That guy is a beast.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I am just not a fan of his.  I just don't see 1st round talent in him.  I believe if this was just a 5th round draft pick we would have cut him by now.  I really hope next year showcases what talent he does have.  GO COLTS.  AWESOME GAME TONIGHT!!!!!!

 

I believe the talents there becoming a Colt during the season without the benefit of a off season program working with the Colts has IMO been the issue .

I'm getting kind of tired of the "let's wait till next yr. to see what Richardson has" nonsense. We've seen what he has and it isn't much. He's been here way longer than needed to get comfortable in the system. I don't know why some just can't admit this guy isn't who many thought he was. He maybe better behind a good O-line, but a stud RB..he is not!!!!!!!

 

First give him the off season & pre season IMO How is that non sense ?

 

The dude heard he'd been traded I think on the radio alot has changed for him in a short time . I will happily watch his progress expecting much better after 1 year as a Colt before I rush to a judgement for all Colts not named DHB ..

 

He is a waste! Extremely disappointed!

 

He needs to just sit. He's pretty much worthless.  Maybe put him in on short yardage but if were gonna stay up tempo that probably won't happen.  I hope an offseason will help him, but an offseason didn't help him in Cleveland so i have my doubts.

 

IMO a off season with the Colts is better then a decade with the Browns ..

How long did it take Brown, and how many "get rid of Brown" threads: have been posted in the past...now..everyone is on the bandwagon, because finally he is producing consistently...Even now, people are still saying "let Brown go" because Ballard, and Bradshaw (maybe) will be back next year. I'll admit he's played poorly, but Brown played poorly until his back was against the wall and that still took a few years..

 

I was 1 of those .  I'm firmly on the Bandwagon ..

 

Brown has looked pretty good  this season has showed a side we as Colts fans have rarely seen  while we brag on Brown we should remember how many years he's been a ..

[mirobi]

Also Remember Brown wasn't that great when he first came in as well. when you think about it is his contract year and he is making a paycheck or he now is in a scheme that fits his running ability

[schwamm]

wish he played more like lacy. That guy is a beast.

There was a very interesting article I read a few weeks ago about Bama RBs (don't recall the source, and a quick search didn't find it for me). Basically it suggested that Bama backs play in a zone scheme.

Those that have gone to NFL teams that run power schemes have struggled mightily (TRich at Browns and here, Ingram at NO). Lacy went to the Pack, which runs a zone scheme similar to Bama, and he's flourishing.

Interestingly, I could swear I read that DB ran very well in a power scheme in college, (don't know this for fact, it's a vague recollection), but struggled for the Colts who I believe were running a zone scheme until recently.

All the frustration at TRich may be a little overblown. It might be fair to say someone assumed that with his build, he would fit the power scheme, but the transition appears more challenging than some might assume. Fans can afford to give him some time to adjust, and maybe Pep can consider either going back to zone or tossing in more zone reads for Trent.

[BOTT]

There was a very interesting article I read a few weeks ago about Bama RBs (don't recall the source, and a quick search didn't find it for me). Basically it suggested that Bama backs play in a zone scheme.

Those that have gone to NFL teams that run power schemes have struggled mightily (TRich at Browns and here, Ingram at NO). Lacy went to the Pack, which runs a zone scheme similar to Bama, and he's flourishing.

Interestingly, I could swear I read that DB ran very well in a power scheme in college, (don't know this for fact, it's a vague recollection), but struggled for the Colts who I believe were running a zone scheme until recently.

All the frustration at TRich may be a little overblown. It might be fair to say someone assumed that with his build, he would fit the power scheme, but the transition appears more challenging than some might assume. Fans can afford to give him some time to adjust, and maybe Pep can consider either going back to zone or tossing in more zone reads for Trent.

Saints and Browns use a zone blocking scheme

[schwamm]

Saints and Browns use a zone blocking scheme

Not according to the article I read. I will try harder to track it down. Everything I read on the internet is true, right?

[BLUEx40]

I mean if you look at the play it was totally blown up trent made three yards when he should of lost three yards he was just concentrating to much on making something happen then ball protection it happens even more so in big games every player is just trying to get their team in position to win

[OffensivelyPC]

No problem, I always enjoy your posts....well not ALWAYS, I disagree once in a great while but enjoy reading them none the less, your good in my book, Hope New Years and Christmas was good for you

Likewise friend.  Sucks tomorrow we have to go back to the real world again.

[Rich Cannon]

I think we have all been critical of Trent Richardson and rightfully so. (i'm not excusing his fumble)  That being said, the guys still a first round talent; has good hands, breaks tackles, good blocker, just has poor vision.  Everyone was bashing Donald Brown up until this year.   Hopefully Richardson comes up big when we need him the most in this playoff run, especially next week against the  Pats.  Belichick is a master at taking away a teams best weapon, ours being Hilton.  One thing is for sure, if Richardson comes up big vs. the Pats and helps us win, all is forgiven, at least on my end   

[k9copinmd]

Speaking of Lacy I admit I haven't watched a lot of him but that dude was just running with reckless abandonment against the Saints. He seemed to be all out every second he had the ball. He just powered it forward ready to trample. He reminded me of how Lynch runs. I would like to see T-Rich run with that kind of power and determination. I actually think that is the biggest difference in DB this year. He seems to be running with that relentless attitude.

[steveeoaktree33]

Just a lost season for the guy. I think he'll be much better in 2014.

Kudos. He could breakout at any time. Confidence is not there yet. Agreed that he will be much better and more comfortable next season.

[cm43sports]

I think we have all been critical of Trent Richardson and rightfully so. (i'm not excusing his fumble)  That being said, the guys still a first round talent; has good hands, breaks tackles, good blocker, just has poor vision.  Everyone was bashing Donald Brown up until this year.   Hopefully Richardson comes up big when we need him the most in this playoff run, especially next week against the  Pats.  Belichick is a master at taking away a teams best weapon, ours being Hilton.  One thing is for sure, if Richardson comes up big vs. the Pats and helps us win, all is forgiven, at least on my end 

I've seen a lot of people saying Belichick will take Hilton away but I just don't think he can, not completely anyways. When they played teams like the Saints, Talib had enough size to neutralize Graham and some of the larger targets. Talib (especially with a lingering injury) can't keep up with Hilton. Dennard would probably be their best bet with help from McCourty but I believe Hilton could still occasionally free himself with his speed.

[Balzer40]

 

 

First give him the off season & pre season IMO How is that non sense ?

 

The dude heard he'd been traded I think on the radio alot has changed for him in a short time . I will happily watch his progress expecting much better after 1 year as a Colt before I rush to a judgement for all Colts not named DHB ..

 

 

 

 

 

It's nonsense because RB is one of(if not the absolute easiest positions to pick up). Essentially look for the hole and run thru it and block the guy trying to kill your QB. There isn't much more to it. We have signed guys off the street going back to last season that have came in and produced better in way shorter time and I'm not talking strictly RB's. There is no way he should still be struggling with the system and if he is, he's dumb as a brick. I've said all along since were stuck with him that I hope he proves me wrong, but I do not think he will. He will never be anything more than average at best IMO and trading a 1st for him was a colossal mistake.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Not a fan when the trade was made, not really a fan now, Trent tries to hard to make every run look great with moves and dancing IE the fumble, you are a POWER BACK put your head down an run hard. hes always looking to make a guy miss how about running threw him. Given all that he has played better NOT GREAT, but better the last few weeks, until the playoff game. Not sure but for some reason I think Trent is going to go off on a soft Patriot defense, just a feeling. Hoping so!!

[cbear]

I don't think this one game should change anyone's opinion of him one way or the other.  He just didn't play enough.  As far as the fumble, it happens.  I don't recall him having a proclivity to fumble, so not a big deal IMO.

[18Manning]

This guy has lost confidence and is down on himself.  He knows Colts fans are down on him and he goes out and treats the ball like a hot potato. Not good

 

I feel badly for him. You could see in his face it got to him. I think he'll be good in the long run. Get through this season and get a fresh start at the beginning of a new season. I still believe in him.

[Draztik]

That play was so ugly. The blocking wasn't there and he actually turns a loss into a few positive yards.

Then he makes the proper cut and actually has a lane to maybe end up with anywhere from 7 to 10 yards.

He just performs a cardinal sin and switches hands while cutting in traffic. Plus a sloppy switch that was almost a toss from one hand to the other.

[tt54l32v]

Trent is not a power back, he is a one cut zone back that is hard to tackle. Where he learned how to be a running back ran and still does run a zone scheme, The  Browns ran a power scheme last year and made the switch to zone this year. Just like the Ravens. Who tried to take a power back in Ray Rice and turn him into a zone back. We see how that turned out. You want to run a zone scheme your gonna have to build an OL to do so. 

 

It is correct that running back is pretty easy to pick up but it is hard to change instinct. He doesnt hit the whole like a mad man because he was taught not to. He is taught to read the helmets of O linemen and make a decision after a few steps. With a power scheme you tell a guy to hit the hole and make something happen. Eddie Lacy does not go like a mad man until he makes his mind up where he is going. 

 

So the Browns in their infinite wisdom tried to take a square peg and fit it in a round hole. Your thinking to yourself well it it aint that hard to just hit the hole. Well think of this. I went back and looked at one of Trent's  games earlier in the season, play by play (cant rem which one). Im looking at the Seattle game now and that might be it, if not it carries the same pattern. Trent had a carry on a 3rd and 1, a 3rd and 5 and a 2nd and five. Every other carry was on a first and ten. 20 or so carries and almost every single one was an obvious running down.  He had one reception on third down and picked up like 12 yards.  So if he is in the game on first and ten we have already telegraphed the play. If he is in on third we have telegraphed a pass. Not the case with Brown.  It is hard to be successful when based on down and personnel the O is predictable. When you are already behind based on scheme.  

 

You ever think that just the simple fact of bringing in Trent has made Brown more effective. Either by way of not telegraphing the plays as bad, and or lighting a fire under Brown's butt. Brown has enough plays on film to where he is not so predictable, new player in a new system can only know so much of a playbook. You can watch film with Trent in and narrow it down to just a couple of plays. 

 

"He has terrible vision".  Um what the # is actual running back vision? 20/20 on an eye test? Or is it knowing where to go by the time you get there? So you want him to decide where to go, but in fact you already have it mapped out, all you need is for him to hit at the right time. There is no vision required in that. That takes timing, experience and blocking, good blocking. You are taking a guy that has been taught vision and are taking it away from him and effectively confusing the # out of him.  

 

Watch this play http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/Trent-Richardsons-Slick-TD---Film-Breakdown/8145772d-6ea3-479c-90b3-13281571eea7 then read on down, the fifth image depicts vision. He has a couple of choices here. Power straight ahead into a safety, bounce to the right and try to outrun the safety or "one cut" and up field left over a guy that has actually been blocked by momentum. He has vision just not the right kind for this scheme. Vision = instinct. Taught instinct, experience type of instinct.  

 

 

More here http://www.fieldgulls.com/football-breakdowns/2013/6/10/4407902/zone-blocking-scheme-marshawn-lynch

 

So after that you may be thinking like I am, hell that zone stuff looks harder than just downhill power. But think like Trent, "Ok they want me to be a power back"  Which means he has to learn, which means he has to think. Which slows him down. When he has to forget his instinct.  " I need to bulk up " Which slows him down. Pressure to perform, pressure to live up to his draft pick, pressure to live up to being traded. Pressure to live up to veteran competition that has the confidence of the other players. Like being a rookie again only worse. He came in middle of the season with starter stamped on his butt.  

 

Will he get it? I dont know. But I bet he works his off butt trying, I have seen him do it before. 

 

[Gavin]

I don't think this one game should change anyone's opinion of him one way or the other.  He just didn't play enough.  As far as the fumble, it happens.  I don't recall him having a proclivity to fumble, so not a big deal IMO.

He fumbled 3 times in 2012

[tt54l32v]

Which is 89 carries per fumble, AP has 65 carries per fumble. 

[Gavin]

Which is 89 carries per fumble, AP has 65 carries per fumble. 

Last year for AP it was 87 carries per fumble which Richardsons was 89 carries .......Richardson also fumbled 3 times but only carried the ball 267 times compared to AP's 348 in 2012.....This year Peterson fumbled 1nce out of every 93 carries...he also missed 2 games though...Richardson carried the ball a total 157 times and fumbled twice...79 carries per fumble in what to this point has been a reduced role

[esmort]

.... Pressure to perform, pressure to live up to his draft pick, pressure to live up to being traded. Pressure to live up to veteran competition that has the confidence of the other players. Like being a rookie again only worse. He came in middle of the season with starter stamped on his butt.  ....

 

 

I love the how the ZBS vs. MBS is now the in vogue TR excuse ever since that article came out.

 

He's getting paid millions of dollars a year because athletes at his level are supposed "perform under pressure".  I don't care what his excuses are; all I care about is that we gave up a 1st round pick and are paying him a lot of money and he is not "performing".  If it was easy anyone could do it, and there are tons of RBs who would (and could) do it for a lot less!

[Malakai432]

I wasn't too happy about that play, but a lot of strange stuff happened in that game I'll say that!

You got that right, Andrew Luck was looking like A Tim Tebow/Mark Sanchez hybrid before he turned into The Terminator. The D looked like a terrible version of the Colts D of old. Fortunately, they made one of the greatest comebacks of all time which didn't suprise me so much when it started to unfold.

Good news is us Colts fans get to see another game. I don't think I want to see them spot Brady & the Pats a 35-10 lead early in third ..

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

It's nonsense because RB is one of(if not the absolute easiest positions to pick up). Essentially look for the hole and run thru it and block the guy trying to kill your QB. There isn't much more to it. We have signed guys off the street going back to last season that have came in and produced better in way shorter time and I'm not talking strictly RB's. There is no way he should still be struggling with the system and if he is, he's dumb as a brick. I've said all along since were stuck with him that I hope he proves me wrong, but I do not think he will. He will never be anything more than average at best IMO and trading a 1st for him was a colossal mistake.

 

he's dumb as a brick. I've said all along since were stuck with him that I hope he proves me wrong, but I do not think he will. He will never be anything more than average at best IMO and trading a 1st for him was a colossal mistake.

 

 

So your one of those guys there are lots of folks that did'nt like the trade from day 1 & there opinion will never change & when proven wrong will just complain about someone or something else I get it nothing to see here its just the same old song & dance ..

 

Just for laughs how long have you been a D. Brown Hater ?   Year 1  ? 27'th overall was'nt he a first rounder ?    Or are you on his Bandwagon ?

[Balzer40]

So your one of those guys there are lots of folks that did'nt like the trade from day 1 & there opinion will never change & when proven wrong will just complain about someone or something else I get it nothing to see here its just the same old song & dance ..

 

Just for laughs how long have you been a D. Brown Hater ?   Year 1  ? 27'th overall was'nt he a first rounder ?    Or are you on his Bandwagon ?

 

 

 

 

I didn't like picking DB either in the 1st rd.. If you have been around here long enough going back to the old forums, you would know that I absolutely hate using 1st rders. on RB's. Always have and always will, They are a dime a dozen and the most over rated position in football. However, DB is having a very good yr. and just because most people are recognizing that don't mean they are on a DB bandwagon...it's just recognizing the obvious and so is recognizing that Richardson sucks. 

[a06cc]

We need Trent in a big way this game. Gotta take pressure off Luck and be able to pound the ball with Trent

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I didn't like picking DB either in the 1st rd.. If you have been around here long enough going back to the old forums, you would know that I absolutely hate using 1st rders. on RB's. Always have and always will, They are a dime a dozen and the most over rated position in football. However, DB is having a very good yr. and just because most people are recognizing that don't mean they are on a DB bandwagon...it's just recognizing the obvious and so is recognizing that Richardson sucks. 

Have you ever worked in a NFL front office ?   Or are you talking fantasy sports ? 

 

  Unless you were interesting & said either something funny or meaningful to me your thoughts would be greek to me Pal  .

 

Lots of complaining on these boards all year long its hard to keep with all the haters ,who would waste there time trying .

 

 

So using a 1'st round pick is something you personally would not do Gotcha .

 

Just for future reference since were on the subject is there any other advice you think is obvious so that Ryan Grigson can keep his job ?

 

 

 

 

 

What is obvious is sometimes it don't happen the first year ..  I recognize I was wrong about Brown .

[Balzer40]

Have you ever worked in a NFL front office ?   Or are you talking fantasy sports ? 

 

  Unless you were interesting & said either something funny or meaningful to me your thoughts would be greek to me Pal  .

 

Lots of complaining on these boards all year long its hard to keep with all the haters ,who would waste there time trying .

 

 

So using a 1'st round pick is something you personally would not do Gotcha .

 

Just for future reference since were on the subject is there any other advice you think is obvious so that Ryan Grigson can keep his job ?

 

 

 

 

 

What is obvious is sometimes it don't happen the first year ..  I recognize I was wrong about Brown .

 

 

 

Why does it bother you so much about my thoughts on RB's. I got news for ya, most NFL GM's feel the same way about RB's. It has been discussed at length by NFL GM's in interviews before. RB used to be a highly sought after position in the draft but not anymore once GM's finally realized they can find RB's late in the draft that do just as well as most high draft pick RB's. If you don't agree, then fine you don't agree.

[nerd12]

Trent really is a strange case. I can see he has that talent and body that is fitting for this league. It has to be his mentality of trying to prove by overdoing the plays they run for him instead of taking whats there for him. Its no longer the o-line blocking because DB is running just fine with the same group of guys. It has to be all in his mind. Sometimes it takes time to overcome yourself and in Trent's case, I just think he has to spend a lot of time alone in the film room.

 

He may not be the RB we thought he would be right now but the one thing you can safely say about him is that he is a really tough runner and not that easy to bring down and we need a RB like that in the long run. He is going to be great again.

[schwamm]

I love the how the ZBS vs. MBS is now the in vogue TR excuse ever since that article came out.

He's getting paid millions of dollars a year because athletes at his level are supposed "perform under pressure". I don't care what his excuses are; all I care about is that we gave up a 1st round pick and are paying him a lot of money and he is not "performing". If it was easy anyone could do it, and there are tons of RBs who would (and could) do it for a lot less!

I'll agree that it all becomes just a pile of excuses, but there is a ton of effort here to blame the round peg for not fitting the square hole. It's the same thing this forum has done for years with DB.

It is not DB's fault he was drafted in the first, but has yet to produce at a first round level. It is also not Trent's fault that the Colts thought his skills would fit a scheme where they clearly do not.

As I've tried (and to this point failed) to relocate the article I referenced yesterday, I've ended up reading a ton of information about run blocking schemes. It sounds to me that asking a ZBS guy to run in an MBS is like asking an artist to think like an engineer. Zone requires instinct, improvisation, and patience; it's about choosing and creating. On the other hand, man requires precision, timing, and accuracy; it's about being where you are supposed to be at exactly the right moment.