Manning TD Record

[Shane Bond]

Bold part is absolutely true. But consider that aside from Brady, every other roster spot turned over in between the first (2001) Super Bowl they went to and the last one they went to after the 2011 season. That's 10 years, with the only constants being Brady and Belichick. 

 

 

Sure, Brady plays a huge part of the success but just him cant win it, he needs good players around him.

[Shane Bond]

 

I just dislike Peyton Manning, 

Go figure.

[Gramz]

Only after a long winded victory speech

Then, Nevermind.

[Fx Stryker]

Marino was more revolutionary in the passing attack for his time, and played for an over all crappier team at a time when quarterbacks weren't protected to the extent they are today. He was the Peyton of his day, I suppose, just a little more revolutionary. I suppose it's debatable. I'm not overly dedicated to my #4 and #5

 

Listen you're argument against Peyton is he doesn't have the best playoff success. Yet you're #1 on the list doesn't have the best playoff success either.

 

You're hate for Peyton is apparent, and admitted so you can't have a real discussion with you. But hey 16N0 I'm glad you can live with your QB having the biggest choke in NFL history.

[PATS16N0]

He throwed and caught the ball himself. Gotcha. No one in the team and coaches have nothing to do with it. Adam Vinateiri was totally useless too. And Tuck rule and spygate didnt do anything either. 

 

Its all one man Brady. Dont know why Kraft is having the other 52 players and coaches. 

 

You lose all credibility when you even bring up "Spygate". You really, really do.

[Shane Bond]

You lose all credibility when you even bring up "Spygate". You really, really do.

 

Oh no. Thats terrible. I lost my credibility, says pats16n0

[dw49]

I think what is astonishing about Joe is that he played in four SBs without throwing one pick. He won the biggest game every time he was in it and has three SB MVPs along with two league MVPs. I get the whole argument about him having stacked teams but he is on par with Michael Jordan in terms of his ability to play big in the moment and in the end that is what you want from your best players.

 

 

That is true.

[Shane Bond]

Listen you're argument against Peyton is he doesn't have the best playoff success. Yet you're #1 on the list doesn't have the best playoff success either.

 

You're hate for Peyton is apparent, and admitted so you can't have a real discussion with you. But hey 16N0 I'm glad you can live with your QB having the biggest choke in NFL history.

Yeah that dude is hilarious. The ones he cant answer, he runs away and ignores.

[Dark Superman]

I don't care who Manning plays for..I'll root for him over Brady every time.

[PATS16N0]

I don't care who Manning plays for..I'll root for him over Brady every time.

 

You must be disappointed a lot then.

 

10-4 hurts.

 

If Brady played Peyton every single game for a season, he would go into the play offs with one of the best records in football.

 

 

Peyton wouldn't make the post season, but his team would get a great draft pick the next year.

[Dark Superman]

You must be disappointed a lot then.

 

10-4 hurts.

 

If Brady played Peyton every single game for a season, he would go into the play offs with one of the best records in football.

 

 

Peyton wouldn't make the post season, but his team would get a great draft pick the next year.

If Brady didn't have that defense all of them years I would be surprised if we are having this conversation..

But you are right.. Brady has the wins and rings.. And all the bragging rights.

[MAC]

Here's a thought... :topic:

The thread is about Peyton's TD's this year...and if he'll Break the Current Record.

Why oh Why, does every thread about Peyton have to be turned into a thread about "Tom Terrific"..... No matter what, no-one can take away what he is accomplishing this year, after 4 neck surgeries, and the fact that some, including Peyton himself, wondered if he'd ever play again. It's pretty incredible to watch, and I'm taking it all in, one game at a time.

He's still my favorite, and always will be. No-one will ever change my mind, and I'll never change anyone else's mind, so I don't even try.

There will never be a cut-in-stone, unanimous decision or definitive GOAT.. Just enjoy these guys, and what they do on the field for our enjoyment week in, and week out.

Agree - except that "Tom Terrific" was elected to the HOF before the guy I think you are talking about wasn't even playing JV high school ball. Perhaps the fact that he played his final year in Boston is how the name got stolen.

[OffensivelyPC]

I am with you on this except that the Manning Colts are not comparable to the Sanders Lions. The Colts routinely won more regular season games than the Pats while Manning was passing for 49 TDs among other star wars numbers. His teams were plenty good to win but were often out played for one reason or another. I think that is what makes his post-season record so baffling. Sanders rarely ever got to the post-season but Manning was there year after year usually as the #1 or #2 seed and then lost in the first round.

There is no question that Brady had the more rounded team and a better HC but those Colts teams were dominant teams as well that could not figure out how to get it done in Jan.

well it was more about the concept than it was about how well the analogy translates, which was both guys were excellent at their craft, but one had a better championship team. Among other variables, its plausible these guys could have switched teams and had identical or better careers.

[shecolt]

You know, I would rather argue this stuff with Bronco fans now, who are under the impression they drafted Manning and he'll go down in history as a Bronco.

 

 

Fantastic!!!

 

Would you like for me to pm you a link to a Bronco's board?

[Yehoodi]

you may want to check that stat

 

he may be talking about the Balt game in 2006, I think you guys had 5 FGs in that game . . .

[Shane Bond]

Fantastic!!!

Would you like for me to pm you a link to a Bronco's board?

You have a way with words, it's a gift

[jvan1973]

he may be talking about the Balt game in 2006, I think you guys had 5 FGs in that game . . .

how would that be relevant to the superbowl ?

[MAC]

Just out of morbid curiosity, when it's all said and done, would you rather Andrew Luck finish his career in Indianapolis with Tom Brady's accomplishments or Peyton's?

 

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

Case closed.

     :brady:   "Oh look, another one. Just what this site needs".    

 

Despite your morbidity (and vapidity), I'll answer your question. I'd take Peyton's accomplishments hands down all day long.

 

In contrast to everything that you've stated, Brady is only in the "all time" conversation with some because he happened to be the QB of three SB winning teams. Manning is in the "all time" conversation with everyone because he revolutionized the position. He is to this generation what Unitas was to the 60's. Brady will ultimately be respected much the way that Bart Starr is. It's Belichick who will be revered - the same way that Vince Lombardi is. 

 

Of course you probably already know this, otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to come here seeking our approval.

 

For comparison I spent Thanksgiving with my best friend in CT, and his new girlfriend turned out to be a Pats/Brady fan. There was a brief moment of joking nonsense when we realized each others respective allegiances. She said "OH NO, Peyton Manning  ". My wife helpfully chimed in with "Tom Brady is a :cuss:  :cuss: ". I just said STOP. My friend and I don't talk about politics because we disagree and will never convince each other otherwise. This falls into the same category". The topic was quickly dropped and we had a wonderful time.

 

Similarly, I'm going to do my level best to not give you any further satisfaction. Just as long as you understand that silence on my part doesn't equate success on your part. SO sick of this. Why don't you go find some Jets fans to annoy. At least there you might have a valid argument.

[House]

Pats fans vs Peyton fans.

The never ending battle...

[Yehoodi]

Agree - except that "Tom Terrific" was elected to the HOF before the guy I think you are talking about wasn't even playing JV high school ball. Perhaps the fact that he played his final year in Boston is how the name got stolen.

 

I think Tom Terrific was the name of a cartoon character on the Captain Kangaroo show before the person you are thinking of was given that nickname before the other person that a person is thinking of was in JV ball . . . so it is kind of a rolling nickname . . .

[Yehoodi]

how would that be relevant to the superbowl ?

 

I think that it is relevant to the overall playoff run . . . which is what I sensed from the conversation . . . like Bledsoe playing for half the game in 2001 AFCCG and so on . . . one game of the overall run . . .

[Yehoodi]

Manning is doing well and the 5TD game really helped out last night . . . he is closing in on the record and could break the 50 mark, time will tell . . .

 

it will also be interesting to see how many offensive TDs the teams scores too . . .

[MAC]

I think Tom Terrific was the name of a cartoon character on the Captain Kangaroo show before the person you are thinking of was given that nickname before the other person that a person is thinking of was in JV ball . . . so it is kind of a rolling nickname . . .

I'm sure. And much like my followup post, it's just an example of what a :devil: member can drive one to.

 

Something that - thankfully - rational and thoughtful members such as yourself would never dream of doing.

[Yehoodi]

I'm sure. And much like my followup post, it's just an example of what a :devil: member can drive one to.

 

Something that - thankfully - rational and thoughtful members such as yourself would never dream of doing.

 

thanks MAC, same to you . . . I try my best . . . then again I can't say that I don't on occasion like the rustle up the natives from time to time though . . .

[coming on strong]

Peyton Manning won his Superbowl with 3 TDs and 7 INTs in the play offs. He can thank his team and defense for his ring.

 

Brady's rings were the result of late drives engineered by Tom. Tom's defense can thank him for their rings.

brady won  his first superbowl throwing 1 td pass the whole superbowl run.......  settling for field goals non stop having multiple int playoff games getting bailed out by his defense......   throwing check downs or short passes to wide open wrs with no pressure isn't impressive choking 2 superbowls even in 2007 putting up 14 points in a superbowl with the offensive line and weapons he had tom bradys is not clutch he was a game manager his 3 superbowl wins would you like me to pull up bradys playoff stats and regular season stats those 3 years if peyton put up them kind of numbers he would never win

[amfootball]

     :brady:   "Oh look, another one. Just what this site needs".    

 

Despite your morbidity (and vapidity), I'll answer your question. I'd take Peyton's accomplishments hands down all day long.

 

In contrast to everything that you've stated, Brady is only in the "all time" conversation with some because he happened to be the QB of three SB winning teams. Manning is in the "all time" conversation with everyone because he revolutionized the position. He is to this generation what Unitas was to the 60's. Brady will ultimately be respected much the way that Bart Starr is. It's Belichick who will be revered - the same way that Vince Lombardi is. 

 

Of course you probably already know this, otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to come here seeking our approval.

 

For comparison I spent Thanksgiving with my best friend in CT, and his new girlfriend turned out to be a Pats/Brady fan. There was a brief moment of joking nonsense when we realized each others respective allegiances. She said "OH NO, Peyton Manning  ". My wife helpfully chimed in with "Tom Brady is a :cuss:  :cuss: ". I just said STOP. My friend and I don't talk about politics because we disagree and will never convince each other otherwise. This falls into the same category". The topic was quickly dropped and we had a wonderful time.

 

Similarly, I'm going to do my level best to not give you any further satisfaction. Just as long as you understand that silence on my part doesn't equate success on your part. SO sick of this. Why don't you go find some Jets fans to annoy. At least there you might have a valid argument.

Hi Mac,

 

Hope you had a nice T-giving. What fun would these boards be without a Brady/PM debate? lol.

 

I do need to take some issue with how Brady's legacy will be remembered. No QB just steps on a team and wins three SBs. You are not giving him enough credit for those champ years. He was at the helm and while the teams had great defenses their offenses were pedestrian and twice Brady led the final drive in SBs for the win. This is why at age 27 he was already being compared to Montana who is considered the GOAT by many. While I do agree Brady will share some of his spotlight with Belichick, I am interested to see if Bill coaches after Brady retires either with the Pats or another team. Bill Walsh never coached again in the pros after Montana and as we know Belichick's HC record was sub-par in Cleveland and then he became the "genius" when Brady arrived in NE. If he does coach again with another QB and does not have near the same level of success then I think Brady's star rises even higher but if Bill does find another QB and continues to win SBs then I think he takes more limelight from Brady. If he simply walks away like Walsh did then I think everyone feels it was more Brady then Belichick for the Pats success just like Montana and Walsh. One other thing to remember - Brady is the best NFL story in the history of the game. He is considered to be the best draft steal of all time at #199. He was supposed to hold a clip board his entire career not supplant Drew Bledsoe in his second season and then Qb a dynasty. That alone puts him above Starr and anyone else really. His story is unprecedented.

 

In terms of Manning, I think you have already seen his legacy play out somewhat the last couple of years will the media calling him the "greatest regular season QB." Your comparison to Unitas is weak because Unitas won multiple championships whereas Manning has a sub par playoff record. It is what it is but in the end he will be remembered more like Marino than anyone else. The best pure passer of his generation that did not win more for a myriad of reasons.

 

Of course all this is assuming Brady does not get a fourth ring or Manning a second ring for that matter. Although I don't think anyone stops Seattle this year.

[Mitch Connors]

This is such a typical Colt fan argument that makes absolutely zero sense and is based on absolutely nothing, and means absolutely zilch.

It’s not a Colts fan argument it’s a team building fact (see Russel Wilson vs Andrew Luck and Cam Newton). How many superbowl wins does Tom Brady have after being paid as an elite passing QB? All of his wins came before they paid him elite passer money (which he deserved). When you pay one player 15%-20% of your total team salary you cant afford other players that make your TEAM better.

 

 

I’m not saying Brady isnt great because in my opinion he’s the second best QB of all time (Elway #1, Brady #2, Manning #3) but the 49ers (Montana), Pats (Brady) and Steelers (Bradshaw) had great teams that added a QB as opposed to the Colts, Broncos, Dolphins who added QB's to become great teams. Two completely different scenarios that are always graded in the same light.

[The Old Crow]

Although I am enjoying all the Brady/Manning hoopla , I have Unitas and Montana 1 and 2. I give Johnny the nod because he was the innovator , and also had 3 NFL titles, and a Super Bowl win. Had he gotten in earlier in Super Bowl 3 , I think we would have won that one. To me, Montana is a very close second.

My thinking about greatest quarterbacks, etc, have to account for Championships even though it is a team oriented stat. All greats are measured by Championships, Jordan, James, etc. After that criteria, you go into individual stats, MVP's, and the like. The Trent Dilfers and Doug Williams don't even qualify for consideration , because they are so lacking in the individual stats. Marino has to be dropped down to only a top 10 guy because of lack of Championships.

The good news for Peyton and Brady guys is that there is still time for more Championships. Maybe Joe will get another, but he would fall into the Bradshaw category.

[Valpo2004]

You know, I would rather argue this stuff with Bronco fans now, who are under the impression they drafted Manning and he'll go down in history as a Bronco.

 

In truth, I don't have any ill will towards the Indianapolis Colts. I used to, but now I actually really like your team and I root for your new quarterback.

 

I just dislike Peyton Manning, for reasons I won't go into here. I dislike Peyton, and I dislike Colt fan arguments because I think what happened last year to him, with a very, very complete team, and what I know will happen this year to him, with a very, very complete team, completely refutes all of it.

 

On the bright side, Andrew Luck seems to me to have the polar opposite personality, and I really like him. Hope he has a great career.

 

The problem with that is Peyton played a good game up until the int in OT.  

 

You can't blame Peyton when the defense gives up long bomb TD's with the lead and minutes to go in the game.  The part of the team that didn't do it's job was the defense.  

[Valpo2004]

You lose all credibility when you even bring up "Spygate". You really, really do.

 

Only in the minds of Pat's fans does knowing what defense the team is calling ahead of time not count as an unfair advantage.

 

And don't you think it's pretty likely that he was doing similar things during the SB runs but just wasn't caught?

[GoPats]

Sure, Brady plays a huge part of the success but just him cant win it, he needs good players around him.

 

I'm sorry Shane but that's just an asinine statement to make. No disrespect intended, but your emotions are overriding your logic. No QB is going to take a bunch of chumps to the promised land. You're a Manning fan of course... apply the same standard to #18. Offensively, with the exception of maybe two or three seasons, what has Brady had to work with that gave him a distinct advantage over your guy? Manning has consistently had Pro Bowl caliber players around him. Brady always had the better defenses, I'll concede that because it's true, but on the whole, Manning has ALWAYS had better weapons on offense. And when he won his ring, his defense did the majority of the work throughout the playoffs, with the exception of the first half of the '06 AFCCG where the Colts came back to win it. 

 

Also consider: 

• Brady lead the Patriots to a Super Bowl in 2011 with the league's 31st-ranked defense.
• The Patriots have had tons of free agents/low draft picks/no-name players on both offense and defense. 
• In both of their SB loses, Brady has lead the offense to go-ahead touchdowns in the final minutes, only to have the defense crumble on game-winning, Eli Manning-lead drives. 
• His main targets in 2001 were all pretty obscure, no-name guys. Troy Brown was great but not a superstar on the level of a Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne. David Patten was a journeyman. For crying out loud, Jermaine Wiggins was a key player in the '01 playoffs... JERMAINE (BLEEPIN') WIGGINS. 
• His main targets in 2003/2004, Deion Branch and David Givens, did nothing when they left NE. 

 

One part of this ridiculous debate that I've never understood is how fans from both sides somehow need to tear down the other guy. Both Brady and Manning have had incredible careers. There was a time (prior to 2006) that I personally viewed Manning as a choke artist, but he shut me up when the Colts won the Super Bowl, and he proved he could win. I've grown to respect him as the worthiest of opponents, knowing that he's caused a lot of grief in the GoPats household on a few Sundays over the years. I'm not going to sit here and stupidly try to tear the guy down, even though I would choose Brady 100 times out of 100. Manning is one of the greats, but even the greats need help. To say that Brady "needs good players around him" is a ridiculous, hater statement to make. Of course he does. They all do. Duh. 

 

Even if you look at Andrew Luck... the Colts have done a good job but how has he played since Wayne went down? He's winning with grit and determination, but like any QB, he hasn't looked as good without his best weapons.

[Shane Bond]

I'm sorry Shane but that's just an asinine statement to make. No disrespect intended, but your emotions are overriding your logic. No QB is going to take a bunch of chumps to the promised land. You're a Manning fan of course... apply the same standard to #18. Offensively, with the exception of maybe two or three seasons, what has Brady had to work with that gave him a distinct advantage over your guy? Manning has consistently had Pro Bowl caliber players around him. Brady always had the better defenses, I'll concede that because it's true, but on the whole, Manning has ALWAYS had better weapons on offense. And when he won his ring, his defense did the majority of the work throughout the playoffs, with the exception of the first half of the '06 AFCCG where the Colts came back to win it. 

 

Also consider: 

• Brady lead the Patriots to a Super Bowl in 2011 with the league's 31st-ranked defense.
• The Patriots have had tons of free agents/low draft picks/no-name players on both offense and defense. 
• In both of their SB loses, Brady has lead the offense to go-ahead touchdowns in the final minutes, only to have the defense crumble on game-winning, Eli Manning-lead drives. 
• His main targets in 2001 were all pretty obscure, no-name guys. Troy Brown was great but not a superstar on the level of a Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne. David Patten was a journeyman. For crying out loud, Jermaine Wiggins was a key player in the '01 playoffs... JERMAINE (BLEEPIN') WIGGINS. 
• His main targets in 2003/2004, Deion Branch and David Givens, did nothing when they left NE. 

 

One part of this ridiculous debate that I've never understood is how fans from both sides somehow need to tear down the other guy. Both Brady and Manning have had incredible careers. There was a time (prior to 2006) that I personally viewed Manning as a choke artist, but he shut me up when the Colts won the Super Bowl, and he proved he could win. I've grown to respect him as the worthiest of opponents, knowing that he's caused a lot of grief in the GoPats household on a few Sundays over the years. I'm not going to sit here and stupidly try to tear the guy down, even though I would choose Brady 100 times out of 100. Manning is one of the greats, but even the greats need help. To say that Brady "needs good players around him" is a ridiculous, hater statement to make. Of course he does. They all do. Duh. 

 

Even if you look at Andrew Luck... the Colts have done a good job but how has he played since Wayne went down? He's winning with grit and determination, but like any QB, he hasn't looked as good without his best weapons.

 

GoPats - I respect the time you have taken to write this post. It shows you care.

 

Just a small correction, there is nothing i wrote with emotions and show me a proof where it suggests i dislike Brady. Also there is no need to get all personal which you have a tendency to do. All my comments are made based on the provocative and ignorant comments made by some of the Pats fans.

 

I can type a whole lot of reply to above but i am not getting into the debate here again, we have several posts for that.

[GoPats]

Only in the minds of Pat's fans does knowing what defense the team is calling ahead of time not count as an unfair advantage.

 

And don't you think it's pretty likely that he was doing similar things during the SB runs but just wasn't caught?

 

The Patriots won three SBs by, what, a total of nine points? And lost two by a combined seven? If they had won at least one, or both, of the SBs against the Giants, would you view it differently? 

 

Also, all the haters are saying "Brady's defense won those Super Bowls!" But Spygate was about stealing defensive calls, not offensive calls. It's self-defeating logic and people are too blinded by their disdain for New England to see it. 

 

Spygate is simply something that the haters hold onto for dear life because they have nothing else left to debase the Patriots' accomplishments. 

 

I can't blame you guys. I would hate the Patriots too if they didn't play for the region that I grew up in and have called home for my entire life. They've been at or near the top for 13 years and people are sick of them. But I followed the team through the 70s, 80s, and 90s before the current era. People hated the 49ers, the Cowboys, etc... there just weren't any Internet message boards back then to convey the hate. 

[Shane Bond]

The Patriots won three SBs by, what, a total of nine points? And lost two by a combined seven? If they had won at least one, or both, of the SBs against the Giants, would you view it differently? 

 

Also, all the haters are saying "Brady's defense won those Super Bowls!" But Spygate was about stealing defensive calls, not offensive calls. It's self-defeating logic and people are too blinded by their disdain for New England to see it. 

 

Spygate is simply something that the haters hold onto for dear life because they have nothing else left to debase the Patriots' accomplishments. 

 

I can't blame you guys. I would hate the Patriots too if they didn't play for the region that I grew up in and have called home for my entire life. They've been at or near the top for 13 years and people are sick of them. But I followed the team through the 70s, 80s, and 90s before the current era. People hated the 49ers, the Cowboys, etc... there just weren't any Internet message boards back then to convey the hate. 

 

Just curious, if those cameras were so useless, why did they do it to begin with?.

[GoPats]

GoPats - I respect the time you have taken to write this post. It shows you care.

 

Just a small correction, there is nothing i wrote with emotions and show me a proof where it suggests i dislike Brady. Also there is no need to get all personal which you have a tendency to do. All my comments are made based on the provocative and ignorant comments made by some of the Pats fans.

 

I can type a whole lot of reply to above but i am not getting into the debate here again, we have several posts for that.

 

Fine, I have no "proof." And my apologies if anything came off as personal. I didn't intend that and probably could have stated some things more carefully and tactfully. 

 

I just think you're smarter than that. And I respect your opinions. 

 

But any person who, at this point, attempts to tear down or discredit Brady is simply wrong. He will end up going to the Hall of Fame on the first eligible ballot, and will end up on "Top All-Time QB" lists for decades to come. It's the same approach that I take from the other side of the Manning/Brady debate. If I try to sit here and tell you that Manning is anything less than he is, I'm the fool. The facts are plain and simple. And the margin between the two, if there is any, is as thin as it gets. 

[GoPats]

Just curious, if those cameras were so useless, why did they do it to begin with?.

 

I can't answer that, and have always wished that Belichick said more at the time. By saying nothing, he invited the worst speculation.

 

If you honestly believe that no other teams had systems in place, similar or not, than I will not be able to persuade you even in the slightest. Howard Mudd, longtime Colts staffer, was regarded as one of the best at "stealing signals." (Maybe not recording them, of course.) 

 

Legends say that Vince Lombardi paid guys to look through holes in fences to spy on practices for opposing teams.

 

Robert Kraft also gave this account to a New York Daily News columnist who wrote "Coaching Confidential: Inside the Fraternity of NFL Coaches" last year:

 

New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft told Myers a story of confronting Bill Belichick about taping the New York Jets' signals when the controversy arose.

"How much did this help us on a scale of 1 to 100?" Kraft asked Belichick in an excerpt from the Boston Globe.

"One," Belichick responded.

"Then you're a real *," Kraft said he told Belichick.

Kraft went on to say that taping signals was widely known around the league. Then-Jets coach Herm Edwards and assistant Donnie Henderson once waved at the cameras in 2004.

"How much do you think that helped us?" Kraft asked. "How much of a surprise was it to (Jets coach Eric) Mangini and (general manager Mike) Tannenbaum?

"You know how many teams steal signals? That's bupkis . . . We kicked (the Jets) off our roof (in 2006)."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000092652/article/why-robert-kraft-called-bill-belichick-a-*

I realize you have to consider the source there. And I realize how giddy I would be, on some level, if news broke that the NY Giants broke rules along the way in winning those two Super Bowls.

All I can say is, use your eyes. Use your judgment. If the Patriots cheated from 2000-2007, and won Super Bowls as a result, then why did they lose that playoff game to the Broncos in January 2006? Or to the Colts in 2007? Why did they miss the playoffs entirely in 2002? Why didn't we see back-to-back-to-back undefeated seasons? Just so they could make it "look good?" 

Can you honestly see Belichick addressing the team and saying, "OK fellas, let's go out and lose this one so no one suspects what we're doing?"

Again, I would hate the Patriots too if they weren't the team I've been rooting for since I was a boy. I get that. I'm a Sox fan and the Pats are the Yankees of the NFL. 

[Shane Bond]

Fine, I have no "proof." And my apologies if anything came off as personal. I didn't intend that and probably could have stated some things more carefully and tactfully. 

 

I just think you're smarter than that. And I respect your opinions. 

 

But any person who, at this point, attempts to tear down or discredit Brady is simply wrong. He will end up going to the Hall of Fame on the first eligible ballot, and will end up on "Top All-Time QB" lists for decades to come. It's the same approach that I take from the other side of the Manning/Brady debate. If I try to sit here and tell you that Manning is anything less than he is, I'm the fool. The facts are plain and simple. And the margin between the two, if there is any, is as thin as it gets. 

 

Of course, i have tremendous respect for Brady especially Belichick and Pats in particular with how they compete.

 

The reason Manning/Brady are great friends is because how they respect each other's game and it makes them get closer. They both know when they play each other, its never safe.

[GoPats]

Of course, i have tremendous respect for Brady especially Belichick and Pats in particular with how they compete.

 

The reason Manning/Brady are great friends is because how they respect each other's game and it makes them get closer. They both know when they play each other, its never safe.

 

We probably agree on 99% of this, that's the irony huh?  ;)

 

Like I said, I've grown to greatly respect Manning over the years. The margin between him and Brady is paper thin at best. We're all very lucky to see one of the great all-time rivalries as it unfolds! 

 

Cheers buddy. 

[shecolt]

Fine, I have no "proof." And my apologies if anything came off as personal. I didn't intend that and probably could have stated some things more carefully and tactfully. 

 

I just think you're smarter than that. And I respect your opinions. 

 

But any person who, at this point, attempts to tear down or discredit Brady is simply wrong. He will end up going to the Hall of Fame on the first eligible ballot, and will end up on "Top All-Time QB" lists for decades to come. It's the same approach that I take from the other side of the Manning/Brady debate. If I try to sit here and tell you that Manning is anything less than he is, I'm the fool. The facts are plain and simple. And the margin between the two, if there is any, is as thin as it gets. 

 

I think the problem here and what Shane was trying to say when he said that Brady can't win games by himself is that there seems to be a double standard by some Patriot fans (not you). 

 

They are the ones who say that Brady won three SBs.  But, he didn't lose two SBs.  They blame others on the team for those losses including the latest excuse I have seen which was throwing Harrison under the bus for not properly defending what had to be one of the weirdest catches I have ever seen.  These are also the same fans who enjoy pointing out Peyton's playoff record to discredit him without taking a deeper look into how any losses occured.

 

Like you, I feel that Brady and Manning are two of the best.  And also like you, I feel no need to exalt one over the other especially given that football is what I consider to be the ultimate team sport.  I'm just thankful that I have been able to witness two of the greats play the sport I love the most.

[GoPats]

I think the problem here and what Shane was trying to say when he said that Brady can't win games by himself is that there seems to be a double standard by some Patriot fans (not you). 

 

They are the ones who say that Brady won three SBs.  But, he didn't lose two SBs.  They blame others on the team for those losses including the latest excuse I have seen which was throwing Harrison under the bus for not properly defending what had to be one of the weirdest catches I have ever seen.  These are also the same fans who enjoy pointing out Peyton's playoff record to discredit him without taking a deeper look into how any losses occured.

 

Like you, I feel that Brady and Manning are two of the best.  And also like you, I feel no need to exalt one over the other especially given that football is what I consider to be the ultimate team sport.  I'm just thankful that I have been able to witness two of the greats play the sport I love the most.

 

Well said, Shecolt! 

 

Brady absolutely deserves some of the flak for the two SB losses. There was no excuse for the '07 putting up only 14 points in that entire game, and it wasn't much better in 2011. Sometimes it's not what you did, it's what you didn't do. 

 

And I'm right there with you, as stated above. It's a glorious era we're witnessing, and it's soon coming to a close. I actually wondered last week if that was the last time these two would face off... I guess that depends on the playoffs, and on whether or not Manning comes back in 2014.