Caesar Rayford Traded

[buccolts]

good move, Jones is a much better blocker at this point in his career and thats what we really need to help out with the O Line, Cunningham clearly did not know who to block out there(missed assignments) on more then a few occasions, He did make some good blocks but there was alot more bad ones

 

Oh, I agree.

It's just all the musical chairs going on the past couple of days, and now swapping TEs from active to PS and around again.

And I'm only half way through this thread  

[jameszeigler834]

Ya a conditional pick why do they say conditional pick why not just say draft pick and be done with it that confuses me.

[Balzer40]

Also he was playing the run well too that's also incorrect. bad trade.

 

 

 

I don't know what you were watching, but whatever it was, it wasn't Rayford. He played well 2 games against other guys that are now looking for sales jobs somewhere, but beyond that he was nothing special.

[Gavin]

Also he was playing the run well too that's also incorrect. bad trade.

have any games still?

[jvan1973]

Ya a conditional pick why do they say conditional pick why not just say draft pick and be done with it that confuses me.

google what a conditional pick is. Reading is fundamental

[Balzer40]

Ya a conditional pick why do they say conditional pick why not just say draft pick and be done with it that confuses me.

 

 

 

Uhmm, maybe because it's conditional.

[Dark Superman]

Cowboy fan here.

 

First off, this is a trade for a fringe roster player in all likelyhood, so nobody should get too upset or too excited about it.

 

Beyond that, it really is a trade that makes sense for both teams.

 

The Colts traded a guy who cost them nothing and showed a little something rushing the passer in the pre-season.  Rayford was probably never going to stick on the Colts roster because frankly, he doesn't have the quickness or the lateral movement skills to play OLB in a 34 defense.  He just doesn't.  He's too long to change directions very well.

 

What Indy did was get a guy from San Francisco that was better suited to the duties of a 34 OLB.  Someone who can drop and cover as well as rush the QB.  He's a better fit for you guys.  It makes perfect football sense.

 

Rayford, on the other hand, is a better fit at DE in Dallas' 43 scheme.  He doesn't have to drop into coverage like he would in Indy.  In Kiffin and Marinelli's defense, he can pin his ears back, and play the run on the way to the QB... which suits his physical skills much better than what he'd be doing for the Colts.  So, while he would be a liability in some aspects in your defense, the Cowboys defense plays mainly to his strengths.

 

So, good move for your front office and a good move for Dallas' front office.  A win-win situation, as they like to say.

 

Either way, Cam probably won't see the field much in Indy and Rayford probably won't see the field much in Dallas, so, as happens so often on Pro Football message boards... this seems to be a case of much ado about nothing.

 

Good luck this year guys... I absolutely love your new QB and envy you for being able to get him.

Couldn't have said it better myself..

Dallas has a ton of talent and I'm a Dez Bryant guy..

Hope you guys can turn things around and hopefully Romo can take that monkey off his back and win a playoff game..

I'll never like Jerry Jones though.. The man in a cancer to that team imo

[Superman]

Ya a conditional pick why do they say conditional pick why not just say draft pick and be done with it that confuses me.

 

It means that there are conditions attached to the trade. Those conditions are worked out by the two teams involved, but common conditions are related to games played and stats accumulated. So maybe this trade is for a 7th rounder in 2015, but if Rayford plays in 16 games in 2013, the Cowboys have to send us a 6th rounder. It's conditional, the terms are set yet, and won't be until at least this season is over.

[Smonroe]

I don't know what you were watching, but whatever it was, it wasn't Rayford. He played well 2 games against other guys that are now looking for sales job somewhere, but beyond that he was nothing special.

 

He definitely has a way to go to complete his game, but you have to admit he gave it all every play.  

 

I loved the guys attitude, and he had great integrity.  I wish him well in Dallas, even though I hope they lose every game.

[jameszeigler834]

Wrong the bengals were not getting an inch when they ran at him last week.

[Gavin]

Wrong the bengals were not getting an inch when they ran at him last week.

If you have the game Ill show you that your not seeing it correctly

[jvan1973]

Wrong the bengals were not getting an inch when they ran at him last week.

the quote feature is a useful tool

[jameszeigler834]

So what that means if he does nothing for him the colts get nothing and the trade was for nothing?.

[Balzer40]

He definitely has a way to go to complete his game, but you have to admit he gave it all every play.  

 

I loved the guys attitude, and he had great integrity.  I wish him well in Dallas, even though I hope they lose every game.

 

 

Yeah, he played hard but so did Eric Foster and he sucked. It takes more than effort to make it in the NFL. The fact that Rayford is 27 in his rookie yr. is a black mark against him and as has been pointed out by our Cowboy fan visitor, he just didn't fit within the system.

[buccolts]

Wow. A UDFA we signed that eventually traded for a 6th-7th round pick. Genius Grig!

 

Were did Rayford go to school?

If it was Arkansas, we could get a 2nd or 3rd.  

[jvan1973]

Were did Rayford go to school?

If it was Arkansas, we could get a 2nd or 3rd.

Washington

[thecorn4]

What surprises me is that we have six pages of banter on a guy who may or may not be in the league this time next year. Hail Cesar!! Go Colts!!!

[coltsfanatic24]

Cam Johnson was a better fit in the defense then Rayford but i would have still kept him for 3rd down situations, would have rather cut Sergio Brown.

[aliveon2legs]

Whenever any trade is made, there is NEVER a guarantee on who is getting the better deal. It's a gamble, were getting a pick either way and Rayford could be sacking groceries in 6 months for all we know. 

That's exactly my point.

 

Just because the dude had a decent preseason against 3rd string nobodies doesn't mean he's going to do anything against the big boys.

 

Ah, but I never said that he would be good.  I said that if he is, the conditional picks need to compensate us accordingly.  Others DID say that it is a good move turning him into an unknown draft pick.

[jvan1973]

That's exactly my point.

Ah, but I never said that he would be good. I said that if he is, the conditional picks need to compensate us accordingly. Others DID say that it is a good move turning him into an unknown draft pick.

its the whole bird in hand thing. He may have been cut in a month and we would have got zero for him

[colts8718]

I think GRIGSON has made more moves in the last 3 days then POLIAN did in 10 years at least its exciting GO GRIGS GO COLTS

[buccolts]

Washington

Rats.

[BlueShoe]

Jmo but Rayford was never a real fit for this team. After watching the last preseason game it seemed obvious he was a DE trying to play LB. He did not seem to have foot speed chasing plays downfield but he had a good pass rush as a DE. He may be a better fit for the Cowboys. Johnson is really quick and had a year on SF's team to learn OLB. Johnson should also be better running down on kickoffs.

Bingo. This is the way I see it too. It is clear cut that Cam is more athletic. That said, 49ers fans believe that Cam was not a good special teams player and that's why he was traded in the first place. Time will tell.

[atapcl]

Wow. A UDFA we signed that eventually traded for a 6th-7th round pick. Genius Grig!

Same as Shipley.

[Gavin]

Same as Shipley.

well.....1 for 2 will have to do I suppose

[aliveon2legs]

I didn't say it was a great move. I just said that we turned nothing into something. A UDFA costs you nothing but a roster spot and a small signing bonus, and we turned him into a draft pick. If he goes on to star, then we'll reevaluate, but as of right now, that's an upgrade in value. (I actually didn't realize this was a 2015 pick, so I'm less bearish on the upgrade now, but still, that's what my point was.)

 

I disagree.  I don't think we know that it's an upgrade in value until we know how he does and what we're getting in return.  Once a guy has come in and shown something, and Rayford did show something, it doesn't make sense to continue to judge him by his draft (or lack of) selection.  Is Kurt Warner still just some undrafted free agent that came from the AFL?  The best NFL GM's overlook great talent in the draft every year.  If they didn't, they wouldn't even bother looking in the AFL and CFL for guys like Rayford (and btw, Jerrell Freeman).

 

As for Rayford, I like him as an underdog "I'm here now!" kind of prospect, and he made some plays in preseason, but I don't think he's that good of a player. He really didn't beat any blockers, he used his length to create trouble. And that's fine, because length can't be taught, but to my untrained eyes, there's nothing special about Rayford. And I'd be saying that even if he was a mid round draft pick instead of a UDFA.

 

Personally, it makes no difference to me how a guy gets to the QB, so long as he gets there.

 

If he becomes something more than just a deep reserve / special teamer, then I think we can talk about the Jeff Saturday angle, a guy who won a starting job in camp and held on to that job for over a decade. For now, all he is is a deep reserve / special teamer, and to me (again, my untrained eye, lest anyone thing I'm asserting myself as some kind of expert), he's just nothing to get too upset over.

 

I'm certainly not upset, I just want to know what are the conditions of the pick.  He may very well never be more than a deep reserve and special teamer.  If so, that's fine.  Aren't you curious if and how well we protected ourselves, though?

 

Hypothetically, let's say Rayford racks up 15 sacks over the next 2 seasons.  What pick would you consider satisfactory?

 

And end of the day, I figure the Colts had Rayford at the bottom of the roster, so he might have been cut sooner rather than later. That's the only way moving him for a conditional pick in 2015 makes a whole lot of sense.

 

That would depend on the conditions, wouldn't it?  With Vonte the conditions were at least partly based on how many games he played, and because he missed a couple with injury, we escaped owing Miami and additional pick.  I would sure hope that the Rayford compensation is dependent upon sack total.

[jvan1973]

I disagree. I don't think we know that it's an upgrade in value until we know how he does and what we're getting in return. Once a guy has come in and shown something, and Rayford did show something, it doesn't make sense to continue to judge him by his draft (or lack of) selection. Is Kurt Warner still just some undrafted free agent that came from the AFL? The best NFL GM's overlook great talent in the draft every year. If they didn't, they wouldn't even bother looking in the AFL and CFL for guys like Rayford (and btw, Jerrell Freeman).

Personally, it makes no difference to me how a guy gets to the QB, so long as he gets there.

I'm certainly not upset, I just want to know what are the conditions of the pick. He may very well never be more than a deep reserve and special teamer. If so, that's fine. Aren't you curious if and how well we protected ourselves, though.

Hypothetically, let's say Rayford racks up 15 sacks over the next 2 seasons. What pick would you consider satisfactory?

That would depend on the conditions, wouldn't it? With Vonte the conditions were at least partly based on how many games he played, and because he missed a couple with injury, we escaped owing Miami and additional pick. I would sure hope that the Rayford compensation is dependent upon sack total.

i highly doubt it has anything to do with sacks. He is a depth player, not a starter. I'm sure games dressed will be th condition

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I think GRIGSON has made more moves in the last 3 days then POLIAN did in 10 years at least its exciting GO GRIGS GO COLTS

He can stop nowIMO toOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aliveon2legs]

i highly doubt it has anything to do with sacks. He is a depth player, not a starter. I'm sure games dressed will be th condition

 

And Warner was just a backup QB from the AFL.

 

I'm not going to write off Rayford just yet.  The guy showed a freakish ability to get to the QB.  He essentially had 6 sacks in 4 games.  That is not normal for just some depth player going up against the backups in pre-season.

[jvan1973]

And Warner was just a backup QB from the AFL.

I'm not going to write off Rayford just yet. The guy showed a freakish ability to get to the QB. He essentially had 6 sacks in 4 games. That is not normal for just some depth player going up against the backups in pre-season.

you dont have to, Grigs already did

[funktacious2]

Quite a few practice squad guys who could do well taking his roster spot, but without knowing the pick, it makes me wonder what round was worth the guy's upside?

[aliveon2legs]

you dont have to, Grigs already did

 

Did he?  I hope that's not the case.  I don't know the terms of the trade yet, though.

[jvan1973]

Did he? I hope that's not the case. I don't know the terms of the trade yet, though.

it won't be more than a 5th

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

The guy didn't impress me against the Bengal's starters. Slow, no push and uncoordinated looking. He was not gonna help this team at all, IMO.

[House]

The guy didn't impress me against the Bengal's starters. Slow, no push and uncoordinated looking. He was not gonna help this team at all, IMO.

Or maybe he was going to be the best Colts ever!

[BronxColtNYC]

Hmmm...

[ColtsBTM12]

That's like taking Shane Falco out for Eddie Martel.

[Jason_]

He can stop nowIMO toOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As long as there are improvements that can be made to the roster then there's no such thing as too much

[chad72]

If Luck and the Colts win enough games, Grigson will continue to get leeway, much like Polian did with Peyton. Winning is everything . Ask Charlie Sheen about winning .

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

First Nevis and now this?!?! What is the world coming to.